AV Receivers supporting 4K/60 and HDCP 2.2? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 35 Old 03-24-2014, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Are there any, other than the Onkyo TX-NR636?  I would prefer 5.2 sound for the intended application.

 

Thank you.

 

DG

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post #2 of 35 Old 03-25-2014, 04:59 AM
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The only other announcements of models with any of HDMI v2 features (specifically 4K@60fps video) that I've seen so far are from Pioneer. They didn't mention HDCP v2.2, but there are only a limited number of suppliers of HDMI chipsets, so they might have it but didn't feel that mentioning it was worthwhile.

A handful of high-end receivers (which happen to use HDMI v1.4a) from Onkyo, Denon and Marantz already support separate distance and sound level calibrations for two subwoofers. I have seen no mention of support for more than 7.1 HDMI audio channels as defined by HDMI v2 from anybody. HDMI v2 features are optional: having one of them (e.g. 4K@60fps video) does not imply that any of the others are present.

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post #3 of 35 Old 03-27-2014, 12:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for your comments.

 

I would welcome being set straight if I am missing information, but, I've been looking around, and I think the Onkyo TX-NR636 is the only AV receiver in the known universe spec'ed with 4K/60 and HDCP 2.2.

 

DG

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post #4 of 35 Old 03-27-2014, 01:20 AM
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Pretty sure Sony will launch receivers with HDCP 2.2 this year, since they are the ones pushing for HDCP 2.2.

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post #5 of 35 Old 03-27-2014, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
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OK.  The Onkyo TX-NR636 has HDCP 2.2, and the TX-NR535 does not.

 

Suppose I buy a Samsung UN55HU8550 TV.  It supports HDCP 2.2 on one of its HDMI inputs.  So, I'm thinking that the TX-NR535 could pass through the 4K/60 to the TV, and that would work (for copy protected 4K content), right?

 

Same thing if I use one of the new Pioneer/Elite AV Receivers.

 

I mean, if the TV has HDCP 2.2, then I don't really need it in the receiver.  Do I have that right?

 

Thank you.


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post #6 of 35 Old 03-27-2014, 04:36 PM
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No, if the source device requires HDCP 2.2 then the receiver will need to support it. AV receviers need to decrypt the video and then encrypt again in order to support things like volume control overlays. They also need to be able to decrypt the audio if necessary, but I don't know how common that would be with 4K content.

If the source device supports HDCP 2.2 but doesn't require it then neither the TV nor the AV receiver need to support it.

If support for future 4K devices is important to you then I'd hold off getting a new AV receiver until you have an actual 4K player and TV so you can be sure your new receiver is compatible with it. There's no guarantee that HDCP 2.2 won't be quickly replaced with something else, or that some other requirement will make your new 4K receiver just as incompatible with 4K content as one of last year's models.
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post #7 of 35 Old 03-28-2014, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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How important is HDCP 2.2?

Are there other looming candidates for copy protection on HDMI 2.0 (future) commercial products?

Thank you.

DG

Edit: I mean future (commercial) content.
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post #8 of 35 Old 03-29-2014, 08:00 AM
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At this point, I don't think anybody knows except for the few people who're actually planning to use it. My personal guess is that it might be an option in the not-yet-ratified-or-revealed 4K Blu-ray standard.

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post #9 of 35 Old 03-30-2014, 10:12 PM - Thread Starter
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OK.  I admit that I am unfamiliar with this.

 

There are some new Pioneer AV receivers that support (portions of) HDMI 2.0.  Specifically, 4k/60.  However, they don't support HDCP 2.2.  So, rather than being stupid, they, too, don't know the future, and don't know what content protection system will ultimately be used for UHD content, and don't want to add to cost by including a feature of uncertain utility..  Is that a more accurate way to view the situation?

 

For receivers, such as the new Pioneer models, that dupport 4K/60, but do not have HDCP 2.2... should it turn out that HDCP becomes the accepted mechanism for UHD copy protection, is that something that could be added, after the fact, via new firmware?

 

Thank you.

 

DG

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post #10 of 35 Old 04-02-2014, 01:44 PM
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Thats a great question, and I've done hours of research on the internet trying to find a good answer myself. In my opinion, I think the safe bet is to find one that supports HDCP 2.2, rather than taking the chance that you might be left out in the cold later on. There are a number of articles on the net saying that HDCP 2.2 should be a requirement if you're going to buy HDMI 2.0 in hope of enjoying 4k.

Right now, I'm looking at getting the samsungUN55HU8550, with the Onkyo TXNR636. Options right now of course are limited.
I corresponded with Marantz, and they have no plans, according to the email i received, of any 2014 receiver supporting HDCP2.2/HDMI2.0.
I can't find any info on Denon (I currently have a Denon 4308CI).
Yamaha never wrote back...

Hope that helps at least a little
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post #11 of 35 Old 04-02-2014, 01:58 PM
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For the past several years, Denon and Marantz equipment have used the same digital circuit boards. i.e. if Marantz isn't going to have it, then Denon won't either. On the other hand, D+M never have been very forthcoming about the details of their unannounced products. We'll find out more when Denon announces this year's mid-range models.

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post #12 of 35 Old 04-02-2014, 11:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pemarsh View Post

Thats a great question, and I've done hours of research on the internet trying to find a good answer myself. In my opinion, I think the safe bet is to find one that supports HDCP 2.2, rather than taking the chance that you might be left out in the cold later on. There are a number of articles on the net saying that HDCP 2.2 should be a requirement if you're going to buy HDMI 2.0 in hope of enjoying 4k.

Right now, I'm looking at getting the samsungUN55HU8550, with the Onkyo TXNR636. Options right now of course are limited.
I corresponded with Marantz, and they have no plans, according to the email i received, of any 2014 receiver supporting HDCP2.2/HDMI2.0.
I can't find any info on Denon (I currently have a Denon 4308CI).
Yamaha never wrote back...

Hope that helps at least a little


Makes sense.  I'm thinking that, at the moment, the TXNR636 is the only 4K/60 HDCP 2.2 receiver out there.  I ordered a Samsung UN65HU8550 today, so I guess I'm going to spring for the 636, too.

 

DG

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post #13 of 35 Old 04-03-2014, 06:35 AM
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I think the High End fair in Frankfurt that starts next weekend will have a lot of new 4K AVR's, I have heard from people at Marantz/Denon that they will release some models then, that will begin to sell in June in Europe.
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post #14 of 35 Old 04-08-2014, 10:10 AM
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It looks like the TX-NR636 only supports HDCP 2.2 on HDMI main out and HDMI3. Does this mean that the receiver will only be able to support one HDCP 2.2 device? Or will we be able to use other ports as well to pass through the video/copyright protection?
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post #15 of 35 Old 04-08-2014, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeraphX17 View Post

It looks like the TX-NR636 only supports HDCP 2.2 on HDMI main out and HDMI3. Does this mean that the receiver will only be able to support one HDCP 2.2 device? Or will we be able to use other ports as well to pass through the video/copyright protection?


Really??? I would like to know this too.....
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post #16 of 35 Old 04-08-2014, 03:33 PM
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An AV receiver can't normally pass through protected content, it needs to decrypt it and reencrypt it so it can do things like video processing, overlays and quick video switching. Onkyo and other AV receiver manufacturers in the last year or two have upgraded the HDMI decoders in their receivers to ones that have dedicated HDCP decryptors for each HDMI input. In the past one decryptor was shared for all the inputs. This was cheaper and simpler but it ment that it took much longer to swtich inputs as HDCP handshaking need to be done each time the input changed. Dedicated decryptors allows input switching to be nearly instaneous but apparently Onkyo's HDCP 2.2 solution only provides the newer decryptor for one input.

So it looks like you'll only be able to watch HDCP 2.2 protected content from sources connected to the HDMI 3 input. Other inputs would only support HDCP 1.x.

This shouldn't be a big problem since there aren't any HDCP 2.2 sources right now, and there aren't likely to be many in the near future. You're not likely to want more than one anytime soon.

If your outlook is longer term then I wouldn't recommend buying a new receiver this year. As I mentioned before, this year's models could just as easily enough become as obsolete as last years models for watching protected 4K content. Wait until the new 4K media format emerges so you can have some certainty that they've settled on what all of the requirements will be.
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post #17 of 35 Old 04-08-2014, 03:37 PM
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What would be the most logical item to put into HDMI 3 input? AppleTV, DVD player, or satellite/directv box?
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post #18 of 35 Old 04-08-2014, 04:44 PM
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My guess is whenever 4K blu-ray comes out we'll plug our players into that input. Unless something like the next Apple TV decides to use HDCP 2.2, which seems entirely possible.
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post #19 of 35 Old 04-08-2014, 05:11 PM
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I woudn't expect the next Apple TV to be cutting edge. It didn't get 1080p support until its third generation. Probably going to be a while before anyone can make a 4K media player with HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 support at the $100 price point..
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post #20 of 35 Old 04-17-2014, 10:08 AM
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Onkyo announced the TX-NR838 yesterday - here is a thread
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1527664/onkyo-looks-to-have-announced-the-new-tx-nr838


Much is made about them having dropped Audyssey from the line-up.

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post #21 of 35 Old 06-08-2014, 01:40 AM
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Is it possible that only the video portion is encrypted and the reciever can passthru the encrypted video but the audio is sent to the reciever non encrypted so that it can be processed without an issue? Or is that hoping for too much?
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post #22 of 35 Old 06-16-2014, 06:31 AM
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I also need integrated HD Radio capabilities.

In addition to 4K/60 and HDCP 2.2 I need "HD Radio" as well. When I am not using my receiver for theater viewing I want to use it to pipe hd radio throughout my home. There are a lot of great HD Radio stations in my area but finding a good receiver has always been a challenge. I have heard that Onkyo pulled this feature from their high end units and moved it to a "Micky mouse" add on module but that takes away the direct tuning display capabilities and you don't even get the station RDS display at all. It seems that paying for a high end "A/V Receiver" would include HD radio as a standard feature.
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post #23 of 35 Old 06-16-2014, 09:52 AM
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I'm perplexed that Onkyo/Integra have announced and released AVRs with HDCP 2.2 (albeit on only one HDMI 2.0 input) but nothing so far from Yamaha, Denon, and Marantz. HDMI 2.0 without HDCP 2.2 seems incomplete.

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post #24 of 35 Old 06-16-2014, 10:45 AM
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With all of this uncertainty from OEMs on this anyone who buys an AVR just for this feature is nuts.

Wait a few more years until the waters clear out and in the mean time enjoy your upconverted blurays on your 4K display.
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post #25 of 35 Old 06-19-2014, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Ridge View Post
 ...Onkyo and other AV receiver manufacturers in the last year or two have upgraded the HDMI decoders in their receivers to ones that have dedicated HDCP decryptors for each HDMI input...

Not interested so much in 4K + HDCP2.2 but really want to know how to find which model AVR's have the upgraded boards with dedicated HDCP for each HDMI input. Is there a list? Or is it stated in the specs? How can I find them?


Dont have any idea why my post is showing up as a link???
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post #26 of 35 Old 07-17-2014, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammerdwn View Post
Not interested so much in 4K + HDCP2.2 but really want to know how to find which model AVR's have the upgraded boards with dedicated HDCP for each HDMI input. Is there a list? Or is it stated in the specs? How can I find them?
If you're looking for an AVR or other component with fast HDMI switching times, look for "InstaPort" in the features and specs. It speeds up HDMI switching time by performing the HDMI handshake as soon as a source device is turned on and maintains the authenticated state even when that source is not selected. So, when you do select that source, authentication is already done and you don't need to wait several seconds for your content to appear.

If you see "InstaPrevue" in the features and specs, that is actually a more advanced version of InstaPort that gives you a thumbnail preview (picture in picture) of the video from each of the connected sources, which can be used to visually select which source you want to switch to. While the value of the thumbnail preview may be debatable, if you see "InstaPrevue" listed in the features and specs then that means it also supports InstaPort.
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post #27 of 35 Old 07-17-2014, 01:21 PM
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More FUD

Can't believe how the industry makes decisions sometimes. HDMI 2.0 should mean one thing, then there would be less confusion to customers. If this is a real issue, seems like it may make sense to hold off a year before buying an AVR.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #28 of 35 Old 07-17-2014, 01:32 PM
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HDMI v2.0 is not a monolithic standard. All of its features are optional. That's why manufacturers are not allowed to claim that they support HDMI v2.0. They can only mention the individual features that are supported. In particular, supporting 4k/60fps video does not imply that they support 32 channels of audio, for example, or any particular version of HDCP.

It'd be really nice if people posting on AVS adhered to that same requirement, but it's probably too late for that.

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post #29 of 35 Old 07-17-2014, 02:11 PM
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Hmm, my Onkyo TXNR515 has HDMI InstaPrevue and it has pretty fast switching but is HORRIBLE when first powering up. It literally takes 30-45 seconds to show picture on my Tv. In fact, I had to insert a hardware edid/emulation device, called Dr HDMI between my PC and Onkyo to get things to work smoothly (to keep WMC from crashing when powering off the AVR/Tv as well as other handshake issues). It's not just me, many many handshake complaints were all over the Onkyo forum when this generation AVR came out.

I am staying away from Onkyo next time, mostly because they dropped Audyssey. I would really like my next AVR to have MultiEQ XT, so was considering Denon AVRX1100W (appears not to have InstaPrevue). Guess I just have to cross my fingers and hope Denon does handshaking better than Onkyo...
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post #30 of 35 Old 07-17-2014, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post
More FUD

Can't believe how the industry makes decisions sometimes. HDMI 2.0 should mean one thing, then there would be less confusion to customers. If this is a real issue, seems like it may make sense to hold off a year before buying an AVR.
While it isn't an ideal solution for everyone and doesn't prevent your AVR from being obsoleted by new audio formats being added, it appears that 4K playback devices which support HDCP 2.2 will likely come with two HDMI outputs: one for video (which will include audio when the 2nd output is not being used) and one for audio only. HDCP 2.2 will only be enforced on the output that includes the video feed. The output that carries audio only will be unencrypted (I guess they don't care if you make a copy of the audio only). So, you can run separate connections from the playback device to the display and your AVR and only the TV will need to be HDCP 2.2 compliant. This seems to be the approach that Sony is taking with their FMP-X10 4K media player, which only works with Sony 4K TV's & projectors, but will work with any brand of AVR/pre-pro.

The downside is that you will have to use CEC or an activity-based programmable universal remote if you don't want to select the proper source on both the display and the sound system separately, as the AVR/pre-pro would no longer act as a switch for the video going to the TV, in this case. Also, any on screen information normally added by the AVR/pre-pro (e.g. GUI or volume control) would not be able to be seen without switching to a different input on the TV (one that does pass its video thru the AVR/pre-pro).

With so many other things in flux and a lack of actual HDCP 2.2 content/external playback devices, I wouldn't put much weight into whether or not an AVR currently supports HDCP 2.2. By the time it actually makes a difference, today's AVR will be obsolete for other reasons anyways. Come late 2015/early 2016, if 4K Blu-Ray players start being released then you could buy a new AVR/pre-pro with a little more faith that it won't be obsoleted in a few years. If you need to buy one now, just get one that supports the features you plan to use now and don't worry about future proofing, as it is currently a futile effort.
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