need information on seperates - Page 4 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 94 Old 04-20-2014, 09:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Zen Traveler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,937
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 256
Those trims look good and within reason to me...Did you check on the Dynamic Volume being off? If so then at this stage would be to play with the different settings. When I first get an AVR (and well before on the last 2) I like to peruse the Owners Thread--That is also a good place to ask your specific questions along with the Audyssey Thread because everyone goes through the same learning process as these things come out.
Zen Traveler is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 94 Old 04-20-2014, 09:05 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 16,657
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 594 Post(s)
Liked: 1283
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDB553 View Post

kbarnes,

I read through your Audyssey 101 guide and the FAQ's. I have a question. When initially running Audyssey, I did the SW level matching. Initially, I started at about 50% on the volume knob, but to get it down to around 77dB, I had to turn the volume knob down to about 2 or 2.5. After Audyssey had run, it had set my SW level to -6.5dB if I recall correctly. At that level, the bass wasn't really strong for music. I'll try tomorrow with a Blu-Ray movie. I know in the article, it says that it's best to set the gain of the sub a little high, and then you can use the SW level in the AVR to adjust it, but, if I set the gain higher on the sub, wont that cause the AVR to set the level even lower than -6.5dB, possibly getting into the stopping point?

As it sits now, I can raise the level in the AVR to about between 0 and +4.5 and get close to the bass that I want, my question is, is it ok to raise the gain knob on the sub after Audyssey has been run and stored or will that mess up the the effectiveness of the calibration? Or, would it be better to run Audyssey again, this time, using a 80dB-85dB start point, let the AVR assign a lower level, and then adjust up from there? I know you stressed the importance of not letting the AVR level hit a min/max level and that the ideal range is between -3.5 and +3.5. I'm assuming that the reason is, if you get out of these ranges, the signal loses its crispness (even though, as you said, bass need not really be "crisp").

 

You can change the bass level in either the AVR or on the sub itself and it will not affect the calibration adversely either way. The advice to keep withing the ±3.5dB range is so that you don't overdrive or underdrive the sub amp's input that's all.

 

If you ignore the 75dB 'target' that Audyssey asks for during the calibration, and instead shoot for, say, 85dB, it means that you will get a trim level that is quite a bit lower. This then means you can wind that trim UP higher if you wish (to make the bass hotter) without running the risk of clipping the sub amp's input. If you shoot for an initial 75dB, and then want to add 6dB of 'hotness' for example, you could end up with a sub trim in the AVR of +6 or +7dB and that may be pushing it too close to clipping the input.

 

There is zero difference where you adjust the bass - in the sub or the AVR, from an audibility POV - the issue is purely how you drive the s sub amp.

 

So my advice would be to run Audyssey again, using a target setting of 80-85sdB as you suggest (say 82dB as a nice compromise) and let the AVR assign a lower trim - then adjust up from there. This will probably mean you can go 5 or 6 dB hot without exceeding 0-3dB on the AVR trim. Ideal.

kbarnes701 is offline  
post #93 of 94 Old 04-20-2014, 10:16 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
SDB553's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
just ran aydessey again, and put the sub level at about 78dB-79dB, basically just when it was going between red and green on the icon on screen. I went and actually took a good look at the volume knob on the sub and to achieve this level, it had my volume knob on 1, and this time i set my level trim to -7. I may just need to move my sub. Speaking of which, can you just re-run the sub portion of the calibration or do you have to do the whole thing again?

Anyway, it sounds good, just a little light on the bass, which I can adjust up my trim for that. I did move the sub about 2-3 inches away from the wall, because i wanted to try and aleviate any little bit of boominess and try to keep the bass more accurate. Granted, my sources for music that im using to test may not be the best. Using Pandora on my Roku box. Might need to put in a movie, or play music off of my iphone, but for some reason, I cant get AirPlay enabled on my iphone lol..working on that now.

So, it is my understanding that the trim level of the AVR is just how much signal the AVR is putting out, correct? So a trim level of -7 would be putting out a fairly small (or weak?) signal, and the sub amp input, in turn, takes that signal and raises it up. The higher you trim up the AVR, the stronger the signal gets to the sub amp input? Raising the AVR trim level too much might cause a signal too strong to be sent to the sub amp input and cause the amp in the sub to over drive? Even if the volume knob on the sub is set really low (like mine)? In this regard, the AVR trim level is cannot actually be compared to a "volume" adjustment, but rather, just a signal strength adjustment...sort of like raising the level of the pre-amp that sends a stronger signal out to the speakers?

I am to assume, then, that, say i take my AVR trim level and raise it up to +3.5 and find that the bass is still not where I want it, then the optimal thing to do would be to turn the AVR trim level back down to about -3.5, then turn the volume knob on my sub up a little and then I can adjust my AVR trim from there?

thanks for the help.

I hope im understanding correctly, lol.
SDB553 is offline  
post #94 of 94 Old 04-20-2014, 11:02 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 16,657
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 594 Post(s)
Liked: 1283
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDB553 View Post

just ran aydessey again, and put the sub level at about 78dB-79dB, basically just when it was going between red and green on the icon on screen. I went and actually took a good look at the volume knob on the sub and to achieve this level, it had my volume knob on 1, and this time i set my level trim to -7. I may just need to move my sub. Speaking of which, can you just re-run the sub portion of the calibration or do you have to do the whole thing again?

Anyway, it sounds good, just a little light on the bass, which I can adjust up my trim for that. I did move the sub about 2-3 inches away from the wall, because i wanted to try and aleviate any little bit of boominess and try to keep the bass more accurate. Granted, my sources for music that im using to test may not be the best. Using Pandora on my Roku box. Might need to put in a movie, or play music off of my iphone, but for some reason, I cant get AirPlay enabled on my iphone lol..working on that now.

So, it is my understanding that the trim level of the AVR is just how much signal the AVR is putting out, correct? So a trim level of -7 would be putting out a fairly small (or weak?) signal, and the sub amp input, in turn, takes that signal and raises it up. The higher you trim up the AVR, the stronger the signal gets to the sub amp input? Raising the AVR trim level too much might cause a signal too strong to be sent to the sub amp input and cause the amp in the sub to over drive? Even if the volume knob on the sub is set really low (like mine)? In this regard, the AVR trim level is cannot actually be compared to a "volume" adjustment, but rather, just a signal strength adjustment...sort of like raising the level of the pre-amp that sends a stronger signal out to the speakers?

I am to assume, then, that, say i take my AVR trim level and raise it up to +3.5 and find that the bass is still not where I want it, then the optimal thing to do would be to turn the AVR trim level back down to about -3.5, then turn the volume knob on my sub up a little and then I can adjust my AVR trim from there?

thanks for the help.

I hope im understanding correctly, lol.

 

You are understanding correctly. The AVR trim control adjusts the output voltage of the AVR.

 

If you turn up the gain on the sub itself (rather than using the trim) it is effectively the same thing but it will be harder for you to control it (unless your sub has a digital readout for gain/volume). So if you are at trim of +3.5dB and want to go hotter still, my earlier advice still stands - re-run Audyssey but set a 'target' level higher - it doesn't have any impact at all on the Audyssey calibration. The 'target' SPL setting is just to get you in the ballpark. If you set it to 79dB and this gives you a trim of -7dB, setting the target level to 82dB would give you a trim of about -10dB. If you then want to increase this by as much as 10dB (unlikely) you will have loads of headroom to do so.  But your way is fine - it will just be much harder to adjust the sub level at the sub itself simply because the sub gain controls are usually fairly basic.

kbarnes701 is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off