Yamaha RX-V375/377 vs. Denon AVR-E300? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 04-17-2014, 10:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Which is better? I actually had the Denon, but it was having HDMI handshake issues with my Blu-Ray player, so I sent it back. Well I've been looking to replace it with one of the Yamahas, because I hear they are much better with HDMI handshake, and just issues overall. But now I'm hearing Audyssey room correction on the Denon is better than YPAO on the Yamaha, so I'm wondering if I should have just kept the Denon, and purchased a new Blu-Ray player. What do you guys think? Thanks!
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post #2 of 34 Old 04-17-2014, 11:15 PM
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Which is better? I actually had the Denon, but it was having HDMI handshake issues with my Blu-Ray player, so I sent it back. Well I've been looking to replace it with one of the Yamahas, because I hear they are much better with HDMI handshake, and just issues overall. But now I'm hearing Audyssey room correction on the Denon is better than YPAO on the Yamaha, so I'm wondering if I should have just kept the Denon, and purchased a new Blu-Ray player. What do you guys think? Thanks!
Yamaha is much better than denon for hdmi handshake. JD denies it. Oh well. To get good room correction software you need to step up to xt32. Yamaha (I measured it) does very little subwoofer eq and none below 31hz. Almost better to turn it off after initial setup. Audyssey xt and below is actually harmful. Not even close to xt32. Proof is in the audyssey thread here. Go to the fresh posts, not the beginning. Other than eq yamaha just plain works. Not as loud as denon though. Pretty much best 2 brands.
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post #3 of 34 Old 04-17-2014, 11:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply. How high would I have or go up on the Yamaha to get a more powerful receiver? So how would you suggest going about room/sound calibration with these 2 units if not with Audyssey or YPAO?
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post #4 of 34 Old 04-18-2014, 01:15 AM
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Jumping up to Yamaha 675 will get a bigger power supply. The hot setup is jump all the way up to 775 model for $500.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=0MJ-0022-00014

This gives you party mode to zone 2 for digital or any other audio source stereo in both zones. Full preamp out (at lowest price) for external amplifiers or eq filters. 8 position microphone ypao instead of 1. And most importantly a good 7 band manual parametric eq on all main channels. Filters from 31hz to 16khz can be selected in 28 steps or bands. All with q factor (width). Ypao won't auto eq the subwoofer much and nothing below 30hz. It doesn't do perfect on the main channels either, but flat and natural do give you real choices of eq besides off.

I prefer to start with natural ypao. Copy that to manual and then fix the problems with the manual eq. Find those problems with this $80 usb measuring mic and free room eq wizard software.
http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-umm-6-usb-measurement-microphone--390-808

Similar to the ypao mic setup measure at several locations around the sweet spot and use the average to see what the eq software is doing. If the subwoofer frequencies vary in magnitude a lot then an external subwoofer filter is required to fix it. The internal filters will smooth out the main speaker outputs above the 80hz crossover. This mic and rew software is amazing. So sensitive. I measured xt32 and ypao. XT32 was better on the subwoofer eq, but not that much. Still need more filtering to get it smooth. The external subwoofer filter will vastly improve any level receiver with preamp sub out. Even the 375. The audyssey on lower denon doesn't work right. Better to turn it off.
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post #5 of 34 Old 04-18-2014, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow. That's a lot of work. Ha. Thanks for the detailed response. So there's really no easy solution here to get good sound?
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post #6 of 34 Old 04-18-2014, 01:00 PM
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Wow. That's a lot of work. Ha. Thanks for the detailed response. So there's really no easy solution here to get good sound?
It is a lot of work. Either pony out big bucks for xt32 or do the extra measurements/filtering.
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post #7 of 34 Old 04-18-2014, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Got it. So Soundbar it is! Just kidding.
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post #8 of 34 Old 04-22-2014, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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So I'm gonna grab two of the Andrew Jones tower speakers and the matching center channel. Which of the two receivers I mentioned earlier, the Yamaha 375, or Denon e300 do you guys recommend? Thanks.
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post #9 of 34 Old 04-22-2014, 05:08 PM
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Is there a subwoofer planned as well? The E300 can EQ the subwoofer while the 375/377 cannot. Make your selection based on which is more important .. sound quality or features.

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post #10 of 34 Old 04-22-2014, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Definitely sound quality. That's why I'm looking at these two models. Don't need/want all of the extra stuff.
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post #11 of 34 Old 04-22-2014, 11:06 PM
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Posts like this are widespread in the audyssey thread here. Keith and craig are audyssey bigwigs. Even they are trashing audyssey below xt32.
Overrated eq abilities. Ypao isn't much better, but it does less harm. Shocking what they are pushing on consumers.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-51779/70440#post_24484767

Here is Keith explaning how xt messes up the highs. He verified the bass has very little eq compared to xt32.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-51779/51750#post_21783037
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post #12 of 34 Old 04-23-2014, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow. That's craziness. Guess I'll stick with the Yamaha then. Don't wanna spend the money to get xt32 at this point.
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post #13 of 34 Old 04-23-2014, 09:16 PM
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I have the 377 and really like it. The YPOA worked well for my 2.0 system.
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post #14 of 34 Old 04-23-2014, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Any differences between that and the 375? I just ordered a 375 today.
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post #15 of 34 Old 04-23-2014, 09:51 PM
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They look the same - I didn't see any differences in a quick look at the specs. Enjoy your new receiver.
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post #16 of 34 Old 04-23-2014, 10:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks man. You too. What speakers are you running with that bad boy?
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post #17 of 34 Old 04-25-2014, 02:06 PM
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I have the Yamaha RX-377 coming from a Harmon Kardon AVR 254 that died. I still mourn the loss of that receiver. I used Kef IQ series for my fronts and rears with a custom 12 inch sub. As long as your not trying to fill a very large room with sound the Yamaha has plenty of clean power. I can not say it sounds better than that HK though. Just different but not better. Can't A-B them so...I thought the YPAO was harsh sounding on my Steven WIlson 5.1 disks which are my reference along with the Tom Petty Damn The Torpedoes Blu-Ray and all was too harsh. Sounds better to me with no EQ at all. Set everything to manual and used a db meter to get my levels. Sounds much better this way to my ears.
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post #18 of 34 Old 04-25-2014, 02:59 PM
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I was just in this same boat recently and I ended up going with an H/K AVR1700

Sent from my SCH-R760X using Tapatalk
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post #19 of 34 Old 04-25-2014, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Dirk daring, how does the db meter thing work?
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post #20 of 34 Old 04-25-2014, 04:07 PM
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Well I do it quick and dirty so...

You need a db meter (doh!) set to c weight I think. The 377 has a white noise tone that you can turn on. Put the db meter as close to where the center of your head would be and make sure each speaker reads as close to 85db as possible as the tone cycles around the different speakers. I think you can try different db levels but I have read 85 is good setting to test with. The sub may be a different story on the db levels though. A lot of people have a personal preference with the low end of things. I personally set the 377 to large speakers on all, cross over at 100 (sounds best to me) and set my sub to taste.
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post #21 of 34 Old 04-25-2014, 09:18 PM - Thread Starter
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And isn't a good sub starting point to turn the crossover all the way up, or to the right, and volume to middle or 12 o'clock?
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post #22 of 34 Old 04-26-2014, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gpc777 View Post

Wow. That's craziness. Guess I'll stick with the Yamaha then. Don't wanna spend the money to get xt32 at this point.

There have been many hundreds of new owners of MultEQ and MultEQ XT units (Denon, Marantz, Onkyo) who have posted over the years that have been thrilled with the improvement of audio quality as a result of using Audyssey. wink.gif

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post #23 of 34 Old 04-26-2014, 06:12 AM
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And isn't a good sub starting point to turn the crossover all the way up, or to the right, and volume to middle or 12 o'clock?

Correct. By doing so you let the AVR do the bass management rather than the sub. Also, although setting the sub gain to 12 o'clock is a good starting point, most will find that due to a sub generally being VERY efficient, the sub gain will have to be turned back to closer to 9 o'clock.

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post #24 of 34 Old 04-26-2014, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Excellent. Thanks.
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post #25 of 34 Old 04-26-2014, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Daring View Post

.I thought the YPAO was harsh sounding on my Steven WIlson 5.1 disks which are my reference along with the Tom Petty Damn The Torpedoes Blu-Ray and all was too harsh. Sounds better to me with no EQ at all. Set everything to manual and used a db meter to get my levels. Sounds much better this way to my ears.
I just bought a 377 and my first set of high quality speakers. I used the YPAO and it does make the system sound very crisp or harsh. I am not sure if I am going to stay with that equalization. However, the YPAO did flatten out the frequency response. I measured it with white noise and a high quality audio recorder. It takes time to adjust to changes like that but I give Yamaha credit - the room eq does work. It doesn't flatten out every peak and null (I don't think that is really possible across an entire room) but the overall response is now flat which is what I wanted or at least I thought I wanted smile.gif
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post #26 of 34 Old 04-26-2014, 08:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Funny! And well put. I guess everyone hears sounding good in completely different ways. I just want a setup that sounds good to me in my room.
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post #27 of 34 Old 04-29-2014, 09:58 AM
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I also trying to decide between these two receivers. What about crossover? Does either have advantage here? I'm told Denon has more power for 5.1 system vs. Yamaha. Thanks
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post #28 of 34 Old 04-29-2014, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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From what I have read, you can't believe any of the power ratings as there is no standard used to determine these wattage values from company to company. And it would take a large wattage rating difference to actually be noticeable to the human ear. Doesn't mean the Denon doesn't make more power, just means you probably wouldn't notice the difference if it did. I'm finally supposed to get my Yamaha 375 today, and having owned the Denon before this, but sent it back due to HDMI handshake issues, I'll report back on my thoughts between the two.
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post #29 of 34 Old 04-29-2014, 04:21 PM
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What is a HDMI handshake issue?
Can you change the crossover for each speaker with Denon/Yamaha? I was told it could be an issue if you have satellites in rear and bigger speakers in the front with crossover.
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post #30 of 34 Old 04-30-2014, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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HDMI handshake. You hook up your components, bluray, TiVo box, apple tv, etc, and for unknown reasons they won't work/display anything because of issues with the HDMI compatability between the receiver and whatever the component is. Very annoying, and the Denon was terrible at this in my case.
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