Why do people continue to purchase Onkyo AV receivers knowing their track record ? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 07:17 AM - Thread Starter
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I can't understand why people continue to purchase these Onkyo receivers, with all the HDMI related issues that seem never ending.

Is Onkyo that good , that it's worth taking a chance?
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post #2 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 07:22 AM
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I thought about that when looking into a AV amplifier for my PC system. Not worth it, even though they have another form of REQ which is perhaps superior to Yamaha. But decided to buy a Yamaha as they're reliable and offer good sound quality.

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post #3 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 07:26 AM
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1.) They did at one time offer the most bang for the buck.
2.) Some never have an issue because they upgrade before any substantial age is on the unit.
3.) Fan loyalty.
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post #4 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by oztech View Post

1.) They did at one time offer the most bang for the buck.
2.) Some never have an issue because they upgrade before any substantial age is on the unit.
3.) Fan loyalty.

That would include me as the need to upgrade hits every 3 years it seems. As for problems I wasn't even aware of HDMI failures. How wide spread is it?
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post #5 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 07:51 AM
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Some Onkyos are excellent, others have issues mainly with how hot they get and certain parts being too close to the heat. We have a Onkyo 906 that is still going strong 5-6 years later, used constantly. At the time it was incredibly high reviewed, and is still competitive after all this time (apparently still sells on ebay for $400-500). Sure, it gets hot, but that doesn't seem to matter. I had a Onkyo 606 fail one me though, the HDMI stopped displaying a picture, I think the heat cooked the HDMI board (apparently that's common on those). They aren't my first choice these days, but they are generally good bang for the buck and if you can keep them in a cool environment, I think you'll be just fine. Several years ago they were hard to beat for price/feature ratio but I think the playing field is pretty level these days.

Personally, my top 3 receiver brands are Pioneer Elite, Marantz, and Denon. Lots of good ones out there though.
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post #6 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 09:26 AM
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I think it's the allure of the features/price proposition with Onkyo. People are willing to risk having the unit go bad on them just to get a little better bargain. I personally would not buy one while the HDMI issue seems unresolved. It would be nice to see some stats though - what is the failure rate? How does it compare to other manufacturers? All the evidence so far is anecdotal, but since there are so many viable alternatives, I'd look elsewhere.
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post #7 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 09:50 AM
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Onkyo has their HDMI problems but they stand behind their products long after the warranty has expired. That's why I continue to buy them.smile.gif
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post #8 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 09:54 AM
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My guess is that most of the people who buy it now do not know of Onkyo's issues. Not many people would actually research a purchase other than hard core buyers...

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
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post #9 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View Post

My guess is that most of the people who buy it now do not know of Onkyo's issues. Not many people would actually research a purchase other than hard core buyers...
I'm sure you're right, but it just baffles me that anyone would not do due diligence research when it's so easy now. Just google the make and model of whatever you're buying and a wealth of info pops up. Especially on something costing at least hundreds of $
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post #10 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by jontyrees View Post

I'm sure you're right, but it just baffles me that anyone would not do due diligence research when it's so easy now. Just google the make and model of whatever you're buying and a wealth of info pops up. Especially on something costing at least hundreds of $


People are lazy. They want an answer right now! They don't want to spend time reading about a product. It amazes me how many people buy stuff with no research. With the internet, you have no excuse for not educating yourself, but there is still a large percentage of people that don't. They would rather be on Facebook posting what they ate today......rolleyes.gif
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post #11 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 10:29 AM
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I am not sure but I think that for the amount of recievers that they sell their % of failures isn't any worse then any others. I have the 809 and Iove it. It has performed flawlessly.
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post #12 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 10:30 AM
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I've been skydiving, scuba diving, rock climbing, drag racing, so now I figured let's really take a chance so I bought an Onkyo TX-NR929 :eek:. (Actually it was a well thought out and researched decision.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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post #13 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 10:40 AM
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My first AVR in the modern era was a TX-NR608. And I did all the research before purchasing. I am not "lazy". I research my audio/video purchases to the nth degree. Its part of the fun. It all came down to the bang for the buck/feature set that I was willing to risk it. Sold that one about 18 months later (working just fine) bought a Yamaha. Not sure of the model, but it was a step up in feature set. I hated that AVR. I mean it was easy enough to use. I just could not get used to the sound of it. It just sounded weak in comparison to what I was looking for. So three months later I sold that and bought a TX-NR709. I replaced that one about 10 months later with a Denon AVR-3311 and relegated the Onkyo to my second setup which I still use to this day. I love that AVR. It has all the features I was looking for at the time, and I like its sound. It is used in a 5.2 system with Paradigm Studio speakers.

My last AVR acquisition was a Denon 4311 which I bought in 2012 (relegating the Denon 3311 to my bedroom setup). That one is used in my primary system, a 7.3 using Paradigm speakers. And although I do love the feature set, to me its not as user friendly. The menus are not intuitive to me and I always seem to be hunting for the settings I want to tweak. And FWIW it seems like I have to run the subs much hotter to get the same bass response as I do with the Onkyo.

Would I buy another Onkyo. Sure thing. Except now that they seem to have ditched Audyssey I would not buy a 2014 model. But if my 4311 crapped out, I would buy either an TX-NR929 or TX-NR1010, 2010 or 3010 or maybe the newest Denon flagship. What I am trying to say is that Onkyo receivers are probably my favorite. When an Onkyo receiver works, it really works well!!

The key to Onkyo is the feature/cost ratio. If they do not continue to lead the pack there, I think their sales, at least among the "hobbyists' will decline sharply.

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post #14 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCARCIO View Post

I am not sure but I think that for the amount of recievers that they sell their % of failures isn't any worse then any others. I have the 809 and Iove it. It has performed flawlessly.

You must not read this forum much.
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post #15 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by jontyrees View Post

I think it's the allure of the features/price proposition with Onkyo.

I agree. Onkyo's look better on paper.
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post #16 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 12:58 PM
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You must not read this forum much.

I don't live here if that is what you mean. But If I read in another forum that most people like Onkyo's it doesn't make Onkyo the best recievers either.
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post #17 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mde8965 View Post

My first AVR in the modern era was a TX-NR608. And I did all the research before purchasing. I am not "lazy". I research my audio/video purchases to the nth degree. Its part of the fun. It all came down to the bang for the buck/feature set that I was willing to risk it. Sold that one about 18 months later (working just fine) bought a Yamaha. Not sure of the model, but it was a step up in feature set. I hated that AVR. I mean it was easy enough to use. I just could not get used to the sound of it. It just sounded weak in comparison to what I was looking for. So three months later I sold that and bought a TX-NR709. I replaced that one about 10 months later with a Denon AVR-3311 and relegated the Onkyo to my second setup which I still use to this day. I love that AVR. It has all the features I was looking for at the time, and I like its sound. It is used in a 5.2 system with Paradigm Studio speakers.

My last AVR acquisition was a Denon 4311 which I bought in 2012 (relegating the Denon 3311 to my bedroom setup). That one is used in my primary system, a 7.3 using Paradigm speakers. And although I do love the feature set, to me its not as user friendly. The menus are not intuitive to me and I always seem to be hunting for the settings I want to tweak. And FWIW it seems like I have to run the subs much hotter to get the same bass response as I do with the Onkyo.

Would I buy another Onkyo. Sure thing. Except now that they seem to have ditched Audyssey I would not buy a 2014 model. But if my 4311 crapped out, I would buy either an TX-NR929 or TX-NR1010, 2010 or 3010 or maybe the newest Denon flagship. What I am trying to say is that Onkyo receivers are probably my favorite. When an Onkyo receiver works, it really works well!!

The key to Onkyo is the feature/cost ratio. If they do not continue to lead the pack there, I think their sales, at least among the "hobbyists' will decline sharply.

My experience sort of mirrors yours except I started with a Yamaha and just couldn't get over how weak my speakers sounded. Granted they were low level Sony's but when I bought a SR507 it completely changed my system. I bought a Denon 2112ci after that firstly because I needed more HDMI inputs. Secondly I switched brands because my Onkyo would cook and that coupled with my plasma just kept my living room too hot in the Summer months. But I will say they do offer features for price ratio that's hard to beat.

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post #18 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 02:02 PM
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Onkyo seemed to be a good deal when I last looked. Presumably that helps sales. I am surprised if they still have quality issues, as that can't be good for profits

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post #19 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jrhooper1963 View Post

I can't understand why people continue to purchase these Onkyo receivers, with all the HDMI related issues that seem never ending.

Is Onkyo that good , that it's worth taking a chance?


I see this kind of talk all the time, and have NEVER seen any REAL data to prove that consumers have worse experiences with Onkyo reliability than with any other brand.

Can ANYONE cite a reliable objective long-term study that shows which ones are more reliable?
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post #20 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 03:26 PM
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Of course one isn't going to see such data because that would require that the companies honestly divulge such information. Yet it seems to be quite a serious problem and far more pervasive than we read about it here. Each complaint is an indicator of something much larger just as faulty ignition switches on GM products are, the number of reported rapes being reported but a fraction of those committed, and the occasional shoplifting reports one reads about at Walmart are but small percentages of what actually happens. Whether it's due to a bad or substandard lot of capacitors or some other underlying issue remains to be seen but these chronic reports of HDMI failures does little to inspire confidence in the long term reliability of their products.

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post #21 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

I see this kind of talk all the time, and have NEVER seen any REAL data to prove that consumers have worse experiences with Onkyo reliability than with any other brand.

Can ANYONE cite a reliable objective long-term study that shows which ones are more reliable?

I don't always agree with commsysman, but his questions here are excellent. Seeing a high number of complaints about Onkyo on a forum such as this in no way shows definitively that Onkyo has any worse reliability than other brands. Without real data comparing the various manufacturers, we just don't know.

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post #22 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Of course one isn't going to see such data because that would require that the companies honestly divulge such information. Yet it seems to be quite a serious problem and far more pervasive than we read about it here. Each complaint is an indicator of something much larger just as faulty ignition switches on GM products are, the number of reported rapes being reported but a fraction of those committed, and the occasional shoplifting reports one reads about at Walmart are but small percentages of what actually happens. Whether it's due to a bad or substandard lot of capacitors or some other underlying issue remains to be seen but these chronic reports of HDMI failures does little to inspire confidence in the long term reliability of their products.

But it could be a self-feeding issue. Customer has HDMI issue on an Onkyo, googles something along those lines, sees hits for this forum, comes here and adds to the number of people complaining, then the cycle just continues. We don't know how many thousands of people are out there with Onkyos that work just fine - those people have no need to come onto a forum and complain about a receiver failure.

It's the same thing with a medical forum I read frequently. People on a certain med are constantly on there reporting terrible side-effects. If you only looked at that forum, you'd think 80% of people who have taken that med have had terrible reactions to it. But the actual data shows it's far, far less likely to happen. The people on the med who aren't having problems have no reason to go online and post about it. The relatively few who do have side-effects do feel the need to voice their concerns, and thus it makes it appear like it's more frequent than it really is.

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post #23 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 03:34 PM
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I don't always agree with commsysman, but his questions here are excellent. Seeing a high number of complaints about Onkyo on a forum such as this in no way shows definitively that Onkyo has any worse reliability than other brands. Without real data comparing the various manufacturers, we just don't know.

I disagree.

If you spend a week trying to find faults on something (high seller) you can assured it's generally overall a reliable unit.

But when you get hundreds of pages on faulty Onkyos, multiple models, year after year, members saying multuple failures...talking with hifi shops who get vast amount of repair/returns ..you start getting a picture.

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post #24 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 03:39 PM
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I disagree.

If you spend a week trying to find faults on something (high seller) you can assured it's generally overall a reliable unit.

But when you get hundreds of pages on faulty Onkyos, multiple models, year after year, members saying multuple failures...talking with hifi shops who get vast amount of repair/returns ..you start getting a picture.

Yeah, I "start getting a picture" too. It certainly raises my suspicions; that's only natural. But without any real evidence or data to support that feeling, it's just that - a feeling.

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post #25 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 03:42 PM
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Look at ED, AV451, and others when it comes to reported issues vs what happened when it all came tumbling down. What about the Xbox problems, the customer dissatisfaction with retail stores like JCP, Sears, Nike's FitBit, and the like. There's a problem and it would be nice for Onkyo to address it forthrightly.

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post #26 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 03:47 PM
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I originally had a Denon 3806... I bought the Onkyo TX-NR905 because it had great reviews and it served me well. I upgraded to a TX-NR906 a year later. Then both units failed. There is no Onkyo service center near me and I had to ship both units for repairs. Shipping to/from Hawaii is very expensive, about $250 each unit. Since one unit was in warranty, repairs was not too bad, but the 905 was out of warranty. Repairs was $400 plus another $200 to return ship. Total cost was over $1000.

I was given another dead 905 which I was able to fix on my own (bad HDMI board). Would I buy another Onkyo? no... Two friends bought Onkyos and both failed as well. I upgraded to a Pioneer and am happy with the unit. I now no longer recommend Onky to anyone.

I do not understand how Onkyo cannot learn from their mistakes and still release badly engineered products year after year. It has been about six years since the issues first appeared. It must cost them a lot of money to repair and replace all these failed units. if they designed the board right in the first place by using higher quality caps (which costs a few dollars at most total), it would have saved hundreds or thousands of dollars for each unit that is repaired or replaced.

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post #27 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by beaveav View Post

Yeah, I "start getting a picture" too. It certainly raises my suspicions; that's only natural. But without any real evidence or data to support that feeling, it's just that - a feeling.

And when it comes to buying something, well I'd take a feeling then ignoring the hundreds of pages, on multiple forums anyday. Your money your choice...that's why I bought a Yamaha, was gonna buy Onkyo until read about overheating and HDMI issues.

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post #28 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 04:13 PM
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I will never buy an onkyo again. My 606 I bought 5-6 years ago took a dump when in warranty, had it repaired and it lasted about 2 months. The second time the issue came up it was just out of "warranty". Contacted onkyo again and was basically told it was my problem. I ended up replacing some of the capacitors on the daughter board around 2011. That fixed the HDMI issue for about another year, then the same issue came back. I am still having to fairly regularly turn on and off the receiver in order to make the picture come back. From what I have read, it seems to be primarily a design issue with the unit.

Bottom line, I will not buy another Onkyo...ever, nor recommend them to any person. This opinion is mostly derived from their customer service, or lack thereof. In addition to their continuing behavior in allowing units go out the door with the same HDMI issues that will develop.

I am looking at a few different pre/pro's or perhaps a good quality receiver with pre-outs. Either way I will do a ton of research prior to purchase (I did this with my Onkyo but the few issues I noticed I chalked up to typical percentage of unit failure). At the time I bought my 606 it was a new model. Perhaps Anthem, Emotiva, Marantz, etc. Would love a Mc but out of my price range. I'm not sure because my research has not led me that far yet. One thing I do know is it wont be an Onkyo.

It is natural for people to post issues and make it seem like there are massive issues with a product. Whether that is substantiated or not is almost impossible for one person to ascertain. I do know when I do my research if I see a specific thread regarding a very well publicized issue, I will take note and STRONGLY not consider using said product. What also is not known is the number of people who say nothing on a public forum regarding their issues and simply have it repaired (multiple times) or move on and buy something else.
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post #29 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post

And when it comes to buying something, well I'd take a feeling then ignoring the hundreds of pages, on multiple forums anyday. Your money your choice...that's why I bought a Yamaha, was gonna buy Onkyo until read about overheating and HDMI issues.

For the record, I don't own an Onkyo and have no intention of buying one.

But I've owned two other brands that have hardly any reports of issues, and I've had multiple troubles with those two brands. So I'm not all that impressed with the reliability of any brands right now. Bleh. smile.gif
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post #30 of 228 Old 04-28-2014, 04:48 PM
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It's an industry wide trend... they buy the cheapest parts they can find, not the best. Everything is built as a throw away commodity. And the electronics are assembled by little more than increasingly overworked indentured servants. You think with these things happening more and more as these manufacturers keep fighting for every penny of profit the quality is going to be all that great?
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