NAD M17 and M27 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 81 Old 05-03-2014, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Having owned the M25 and M25 HD 2, I am lusting after the new M17 and M27. I know there is no reason at this time to change out my current set up. If I were buying new again, there is no doubt that I would snatch up the M17 and M27 based off my experience with the M25 and M15.

Anyone interested in purchasing my M25 and M15 HD 2 smile.gif I'll give a good price on both that are under a year old.

Has anyone seen the picture of these? I can't wait for more detail to be released on them.
Pictures were first posted on 21hifi.com

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post #2 of 81 Old 05-04-2014, 06:49 AM
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Cinenow France has posted a video from CES 2014 about those, and of the two new stereo pre- and power-amp products M12 ($3499) and M22 ($2499).

I don't understand French, but auto caption's auto translation gives one some ideas about them. (..Though, pretty sure he wasn't actually talking about "dog preamp" or of "revolutionized food". biggrin.gif ) Also there is video of the connectors: XLR pre-outs and ins in M17 ($5499) and M27 ($3999)! Also M12 and M17 have touch screen displays in the front. Also the D-class M27 is sure to be much less back-braking component than the current M25. cool.gif
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post #3 of 81 Old 05-27-2014, 07:47 AM
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Are you still looking to sell the M25 & M15HD2?
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post #4 of 81 Old 06-12-2014, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclist247 View Post
Having owned the M25 and M25 HD 2, I am lusting after the new M17 and M27. I know there is no reason at this time to change out my current set up. If I were buying new again, there is no doubt that I would snatch up the M17 and M27 based off my experience with the M25 and M15.

Anyone interested in purchasing my M25 and M15 HD 2 I'll give a good price on both that are under a year old.

Has anyone seen the picture of these? I can't wait for more detail to be released on them.
Pictures were first posted on 21hifi.com

Cool all digital class D! Do they use ICE Power! Also the screen is a copy from Classé? Are they manufactured in China?

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post #5 of 81 Old 06-12-2014, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post
Cool all digital class D! Do they use ICE Power! Also the screen is a copy from Classé? Are they manufactured in China?

Despite the sarcasm, I would hope that the amps were all based on Zetex that the M2 and 390DD are. But it seems kind of foolish to me that they are feeding the M27 with an analog signal. If it was a fully digital system I might go for it.
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post #6 of 81 Old 06-13-2014, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by jasonmichaelh View Post
Despite the sarcasm, I would hope that the amps were all based on Zetex that the M2 and 390DD are.
M27 (like M12) uses Ncore amplifier modules from Hypex. M27 is 7 x 180 W (@ 8 Ohm), so a customized module. (M12 is 2 x 250 W @ 8 Ohm).
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post #7 of 81 Old 06-13-2014, 08:06 AM
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A couple of months back we visited the China factory that designs/builds the NAD stuff..
The new NAD components are awesome in ID and have some new techy stuff...
The surround processor does not yet have 4K capability but this board module which plugs in will be available in August..
The 4K board is going through some rigorous validation/certification testing. We have seen a proto of the board in action and the video looks excellent...

Just my $0.05....
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post #8 of 81 Old 06-17-2014, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by musicduck View Post
Are you still looking to sell the M25 & M15HD2?
If price were right and you could pick up
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post #9 of 81 Old 06-19-2014, 11:49 PM
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M17, 7 channel and no Dolby Atmos ??
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post #10 of 81 Old 06-20-2014, 12:12 PM
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M17, 7 channel and no Dolby Atmos ??
NAD are not the kind of company to offer the latest thrills on their AV processors/receivers despite their MDC architecture.

Last edited by jam88; 06-20-2014 at 12:19 PM.
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post #11 of 81 Old 06-20-2014, 12:32 PM
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What I find the most disconcerting on the M17 processor is that NAD stuck with Audyssey MultEQ XT. For a prepro at the $5500 price point, you'd expect at least MultEQ XT32 when you consider that it's beginning to show up on AV receivers in the $1300 range.
This product is a big yawn for me.
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post #12 of 81 Old 06-22-2014, 07:05 AM
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Do you know if the M27 has fans? I hope not!

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post #13 of 81 Old 06-22-2014, 08:34 AM
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That M27 looks like a fantastic piece.

The Hypex amp modules are basically as good as class D gets (Icepower ASX2 is also up there; Abletec's stuff is on paper as well, but I've never played with one). The key phrase with Class D is "load invariant." Basically, any module that's load invariant has a chance of being great, because its frequency response will not change with the driven load. Common class D amps (all of them I know of except for the above three) act bad like tube amps. Their frequency response depends on the impedance curve of the driven loudspeaker. (Stereophile's "Kantor load" measurement shows these problems well.)

Obviously, only load-invariant class D amps are legitimately high fidelity devices. The common ones can be used just fine in designs that take their flaws into account, such as an active loudspeaker voiced using measurements of that particular driver/amp/cabinet. But for speakers, they're basically just inexpensive and more powerful triodes. A low fidelity, high coloration, solution.

As for the price, look at how much Hypex NC400 modules and matching SMPS cost on their own, and keep in mind you also get a nice case, 12V trigger circuitry (presumably, haven't seen the back), etc. Sure, the module is "different," but whatever.

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post #14 of 81 Old 06-22-2014, 08:55 AM
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As for the price, look at how much Hypex NC400 modules and matching SMPS cost on their own, and keep in mind you also get a nice case, 12V trigger circuitry (presumably, haven't seen the back), etc. Sure, the module is "different," but whatever.
Do we yet have verification that these are actual nCore modules (NC400, NC1200), and not UcD modules which incorporate some amount of "nCore technology"?
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post #15 of 81 Old 06-22-2014, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by iNetRunner View Post
M27 (like M12) uses Ncore amplifier modules from Hypex. M27 is 7 x 180 W (@ 8 Ohm), so a customized module. (M12 is 2 x 250 W @ 8 Ohm).
Is Ncore any good? Wonder how it will compare to Classe new digital amp?

My humble Cinema
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post #16 of 81 Old 06-22-2014, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jam88 View Post
What I find the most disconcerting on the M17 processor is that NAD stuck with Audyssey MultEQ XT. For a prepro at the $5500 price point, you'd expect at least MultEQ XT32 when you consider that it's beginning to show up on AV receivers in the $1300 range.
This product is a big yawn for me.
That is very disappointing if this unit does not have XT32.
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post #17 of 81 Old 06-22-2014, 10:05 PM
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Do we yet have verification that these are actual nCore modules (NC400, NC1200), and not UcD modules which incorporate some amount of "nCore technology"?
Well, the press release says "Ncore" all over the place. Presumably, both NAD and Hypex have attorneys that vet press releases discussing licensed IP.

Other than that, who really cares. I'm highly skeptical that there's any audible difference between the two anyway. (Ncore probably measures better.) Both are low-noise, load invariant designs.

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post #18 of 81 Old 06-23-2014, 05:48 AM
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Well, the press release says "Ncore" all over the place. Presumably, both NAD and Hypex have attorneys that vet press releases discussing licensed IP.
They say "nCore technology", which may or may not be the same thing, given Bruno's announcements some time back that the UcD's had incorporated some nCore technology.

I'd like some clarity, that's all.
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post #19 of 81 Old 06-25-2014, 02:17 PM
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That is very disappointing if this unit does not have XT32.
A big shock I would say.....
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post #20 of 81 Old 06-30-2014, 01:00 PM
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In the years since NAD released the M2 "powered DAC" and M51 line level DAC -- both measuring impeccably using the Zetec 35 bit PWM process -- I have oft wondered if NAD might someday apply the same to a multichannel component. A 35 bit PWM pre/pro with state of the art room correction could be a real statement product. Maybe even better yet, make it a flagship AVR with the 35 bit PWM path all the way through the amplification stage, a la the M2.

AJ
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post #21 of 81 Old 07-07-2014, 04:26 AM
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Beautiful looking units! Seems NAD even went to the extent of adding quality support feet underneath (!), something rarely seen with A/V gear.

I'm interested in seeing the EURO prices!

Not that I'm an Audyssey fan any longer but I agree with what others said about Audyssey; without the latest XT32 version how do NAD think they'll attract buyers to the M17? Foolish, if so! Really foolish!

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post #22 of 81 Old 07-07-2014, 09:54 PM
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Not that I'm an Audyssey fan any longer but I agree with what others said about Audyssey; without the latest XT32 version how do NAD think they'll attract buyers to the M17? Foolish, if so! Really foolish!
With a bunch of marketing gibberish.
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post #23 of 81 Old 07-07-2014, 11:34 PM
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With a bunch of marketing gibberish.
Probably! I would hope though that discerning potential buyers will see through that. Users of Audyssey have no reason to accept anything less than the latest and greatest on a piece of gear at this level. Even if Pro compatible the system still depends on the integrated calibration version and XT is still subpar XT32 no matter how you look at it.

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post #24 of 81 Old 07-08-2014, 01:33 PM
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That is very disappointing if this unit does not have XT32.
I consider that product a joke.........XT32 works incredible well in my room compared to just XT.


It is not really suitable for a higher end product to only have XT.........this has the immediately made me not interested.........don't even need to look at any other features.
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post #25 of 81 Old 07-10-2014, 06:29 AM
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Beautiful looking units! Seems NAD even went to the extent of adding quality support feet underneath (!), something rarely seen with A/V gear.

I'm interested in seeing the EURO prices!

Not that I'm an Audyssey fan any longer but I agree with what others said about Audyssey; without the latest XT32 version how do NAD think they'll attract buyers to the M17? Foolish, if so! Really foolish!
The M17 and M27 are replacements for the M15 HD2 and M25, so they are priced roughly the same. Well, the M17 is about a grand more than the M15 HD2, I think.. (6190 € and 4590 € MSRP)
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post #26 of 81 Old 07-13-2014, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by iNetRunner View Post
M27 (like M12) uses Ncore amplifier modules from Hypex. M27 is 7 x 180 W (@ 8 Ohm), so a customized module. (M12 is 2 x 250 W @ 8 Ohm).
Is it any good, I need a class D amplifier that has seven channels and sound good!

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post #27 of 81 Old 07-13-2014, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
That M27 looks like a fantastic piece.

The Hypex amp modules are basically as good as class D gets (Icepower ASX2 is also up there; Abletec's stuff is on paper as well, but I've never played with one). The key phrase with Class D is "load invariant." Basically, any module that's load invariant has a chance of being great, because its frequency response will not change with the driven load. Common class D amps (all of them I know of except for the above three) act bad like tube amps. Their frequency response depends on the impedance curve of the driven loudspeaker. (Stereophile's "Kantor load" measurement shows these problems well.)

Obviously, only load-invariant class D amps are legitimately high fidelity devices. The common ones can be used just fine in designs that take their flaws into account, such as an active loudspeaker voiced using measurements of that particular driver/amp/cabinet. But for speakers, they're basically just inexpensive and more powerful triodes. A low fidelity, high coloration, solution.

As for the price, look at how much Hypex NC400 modules and matching SMPS cost on their own, and keep in mind you also get a nice case, 12V trigger circuitry (presumably, haven't seen the back), etc. Sure, the module is "different," but whatever.
Does that mean they sound good or not?

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post #28 of 81 Old 07-13-2014, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by jasonmichaelh View Post
Despite the sarcasm, I would hope that the amps were all based on Zetex that the M2 and 390DD are. But it seems kind of foolish to me that they are feeding the M27 with an analog signal. If it was a fully digital system I might go for it.
No sarcasm I am upgrading my Integra amp as I need a cold working amp.

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post #29 of 81 Old 07-15-2014, 12:02 AM
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Out of curiosity I got in touch with NAD support about the Audyssey issue. They replied promptly (appreciated!) but sadly didn't give a straight answer (bummer!), but instead a rather vague one.


"Thank you for your recent inquiry on the up and coming M17 model.

Unfortunately, regardless of speaking to the NAD Product manager or design team, we are unable to release any specific information on features or functions on unreleased models. This is company policy and applies to all unreleased products. We can tell you that the M17 is included in the MDC program and is excepted to have the latest Audyssey technology.

We would recommend that you keep checking the NAD Electronics website for product updates,

Thank you,

NAD International Technical Support"



Judging by the part highlighted in bold there seem to be a slight chance we'll see MultEQ XT32 in the M17 since they say "...is excepted to have the latest Audyssey technology", and XT32 being the latest would then be likely? Let's not hold our breaths though.

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post #30 of 81 Old 07-15-2014, 08:17 AM
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Something odd I noticed about a NAD amplifier I looked at. They rated it 140x7 but listed 4 ohms and 8 ohms. Normally an amplifier would not have the same power rating at 4 and 8, so I found that confusing.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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