sizing speakers after using YPAO - AVS Forum

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hotrod351's Avatar hotrod351
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post #1 of 36
05-03-2014 | Posts: 206
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i noticed after i used the YPAO to set my speakers that it showed that my front tower speakers are small and my center are small. i changed them to large. would that affect the sound. should i just let the YPAO do its thing and if it decides my front and center are small than leave it.
fatbottom's Avatar fatbottom
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Unless you have full range speakers 20hz-20khz, then don't set to large. What are your speakers?

I set mine to small and I have floorstanders. Manually set them to the right values,
hotrod351's Avatar hotrod351
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post #3 of 36
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My fronts are jamo 707i center is Yamaha NS-C110
fatbottom's Avatar fatbottom
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post #4 of 36
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Set them to small 80hz.

Change Yamaha center and buy Jamo matching center.
hotrod351's Avatar hotrod351
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It seems that the dialog is much clearer when set to large on the fronts and center
fatbottom's Avatar fatbottom
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Can't find much info about those speakers. But Yamaha has a fixed crossover, not one for each speaker- so have to use the speaker with highest roll off, in your case the yamaha center, 80hz.
hotrod351's Avatar hotrod351
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Jamo specs are frequency range = 35-20000hz /// cross- over frequency = 150/3000HZ
fatbottom's Avatar fatbottom
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I'd probably set them to 60hz. But then it's a universal crossover so 60hz will be too low for you center, and probably rears as well.
hotrod351's Avatar hotrod351
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post #9 of 36
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All I know is they seem to sound better set to what they are, large
fatbottom's Avatar fatbottom
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They aren't full range speakers. They're close, but not quite. I certainly wouldn't use lower than 40hz.

Also puts more strain on your amp
hotrod351's Avatar hotrod351
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does setting the speaker size set the hz. would i be better off setting the fronts to small.
MichaelJHuman's Avatar MichaelJHuman
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YPAO used to love setting speakers to large. I used to set mine to small and re-run YPAO just in case. Few speakers are full range, IMO even towers. I often see 40 hz at the -3 point. Good subs should be lower than that, IMO. Even Hsu's budget sub does close to 30 hz.
hotrod351's Avatar hotrod351
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I think I understand, if I set to small then they won't be getting the us the sub would get. No need seeing as a have a Yamaha 150 watt sub. On the other hand theses towers are known for the. base they can put out. I'll try it both ways. When it comes down to it, it's whatever sounds best to me. But again I did realize something, size them small and will raise the us they get, I think that's what this all means
hotrod351's Avatar hotrod351
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post #14 of 36
05-04-2014 | Posts: 206
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the hz settings i understand on my truck stereo, because it has them displayed. set my front, and rear, also have a sub. i set it so anything below this doesnt go to the front small speakers, then between this and that to rears and then the sub. but i havent fond in my yamaha setup were the hz settings are, i guess the speaker sizing does this, set to small the fronts arent going to get hz below a certain hz. guess they have this instead of the hz read - out. and yes i dont need them for bass because of the powered sub. now without the powered sub id have to use the fronts for bass but the sub works perfect. is that how they regulate the hz, by sizing the speakers ?
hotrod351's Avatar hotrod351
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ok i found the settings. it says front left = 250.0Hz, front right = 125.0Hz center = 157.5Hz do these seem right.
hotrod351's Avatar hotrod351
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looking at them again it seems that there all 125 hz. front, center and rears.
fatbottom's Avatar fatbottom
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35hz for the Jamos. No +/- so could be anything. 4Ohm so need a good amp.
65hz for your Yamaha.

For bass managment, everything below the crossover setting goes to your sub. So by setting your center to small 80hz, bass below 80hz from the center gets re-directed to the sub. Not sure about your Yamaha but for my 671 you can't set crossover for each speaker, it's universal (so pretty bad if you have floorstanders, but a tiny little center)
hotrod351's Avatar hotrod351
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post #18 of 36
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i dont think the center is small. at least i didnt think so. i see when i go to Parameric EQ the settings set to flat the settings are 125.5hz for front, 157.5hz for center and rears at 125hz. now if i switch to manual the settings are 62.5hz front, center also 62.5hz and rears also, i can up all of them to 157.5hz. i cant find any fine tuning for this, either 62.5hz or a jump to 157.5hz. hey im learning. i remember my truck stereo was a joy to set up. i know if i set them all to 157.5hz everything under will go to sub. but id think id be missing some music with those settings. agree 80hz would be nice for the towers and 125 or better for the center and rears, maybe even higher for the rears seeing as there even smaller. but its either 62.5Hz or 157.5Hz on the fronts. i guess suing the YPAO and letting it set them the best way it can might be the best way to go. but it is coming back to me about the Hz settings. like i said, im learning. i realize the Jamo 707i's are to much for the receiver but ran them off my old rx-v620 for years and sounded great. if this setup was in a big room id have to get a pre-amp to boost it up some. but it would be worth it for the clarity. i do know with the YPAO it sounds better. just want to get it dialed in a little better, if i can.
fatbottom's Avatar fatbottom
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post #19 of 36
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Yes it is. I have a center speaker that reaches down lower than yours and I've still set it to small.

The Yamaha NS-C110 cannot reproduce down to 20hz. Set it to small 80hz

http://www.sghifimall.com/details.php?id=867
hotrod351's Avatar hotrod351
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post #20 of 36
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it is set to small and in the flat settings it set to 157.5Hz, cant take it down. in the manual setting it lets me set it at 62.5HZ or 157.5Hz in fact they are all set to 62.5Hz doesnt seem to be any real fine tuning. either 62.5Hz or it jumps way up.
fatbottom's Avatar fatbottom
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post #21 of 36
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Crossover setting


JHAz's Avatar JHAz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod351 View Post

it is set to small and in the flat settings it set to 157.5Hz, cant take it down. in the manual setting it lets me set it at 62.5HZ or 157.5Hz in fact they are all set to 62.5Hz doesnt seem to be any real fine tuning. either 62.5Hz or it jumps way up.

that's an equalizer seting, not the crossover. See fb's post immediately above.

Small is shorthand for "turn on bassmanagement" and it's best to eliminate any pejorative thought you have about "calling" a particular speaker "small," since it's not really meaningful.

For best bass, the general recommendation around here is to either measure and test locations or perform the infamous sub crawl to identify the place(s) in your room where a sub performs best - - in general best output with fewest huge peaks and valleys in the frequency response at the listening positions. Unless you have done that AND placed your mains in the best positions for a sub (which would likely be entirely wrong for their real purposes) putting the lower bass in a well-placed sub will usually provide the best overall performance.

I didn't look up the Jamos, but if they don't publish the SPL limits for their frequency response spec (e.g. +/- 3 dB) then the safe assumption is that the 35 Hz low end is 10 dB below the average output. Moreover, especially for movies, the low frequency stuff gets very loud, and in my admittedly somewhat limited experience full-range consumer speakers just don't use woofers that provide the kind of excursion needed to really reproduce the deepest bass loudly (sadly all that excursion requires heavier parts which reduces the sensitivity of the driver and you'd end up with a tower that has midrange and tweeter padded down to match up to the massive "sub" woofer.

At any rate, in my room with my more modest speakers, even for music the fairly satisfying bass I get with levels averaging in the 80 dB range (that's listening loud for me) will start to compress (ie not enough bass) and distort as I approach say 90 dB or more. So on un-loudness wars mastered material, when I listen loud, my peaks are likely bass shy and more distorted without my sub than they would be with it.
hotrod351's Avatar hotrod351
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post #23 of 36
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great, found it and its at 120Hz. which im pretty sure is way to high. dont know why it was set to that. than again seeing as when the EQ is set to flat all the speakers are 125Hz and higher, guess thats why it set so high. picks up on everything under 125Hz.
fatbottom's Avatar fatbottom
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Leave YPAO alone. If you don't know what you're doing you'll just mess it up.
hotrod351's Avatar hotrod351
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post #25 of 36
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well after setting my receiver to 6ohm and running YPAO again i get much better numbers. everything looks like 125Hz and the sub is at 110Hz cross over. if i lower the base down to 80Hz or 60Hz wouldnt i be missing out on some tones. i mean there seems there would be a gap between the 80Hz and the 125Hz of my fronts. i dont know what kind of front speakers you have but i didnt think jamos were considered consumer speakers. i thought they were high end, maybe not. oh well there what i have to work with.
hotrod351's Avatar hotrod351
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post #26 of 36
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I thought the YPAO was the easy way to set these up, plug and play. it does all the work for you. at least thats what i was told, even from Yamaha. plug in in and let it do its thing. anyway have to wait for teh wife to wake up to see how it sounds. and yeah the Jaoms 707i's arent your high end speakers, only costing $900.00 a piece, i know the really good ones are up in the thousands. but i like them. and i got the pair for $300.00, like new. sure sound good but a little much for my RX-A1020, then again have been running them for 3 years on my old RX-V620 without any problems. receiver hasnt been getting hot running them so all is good. anyway ill know how it sounds in a while. i remember going though something like this when setting up my truck stereo, it was worse, Hz and slope and something else, been a long time. like one guy said = set it to your liking and call it good. i know my bass is set good because when it hit you cant tell where its coming from. seems to come fro every where, thats what i like about it., it doesnt sound like it coming from the sub itself.
fatbottom's Avatar fatbottom
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post #27 of 36
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Generally speaker crossover selection gets it wrong. It set my standmounts to large, so manually changed to small.
Quote:
lower the base down to 80Hz or 60Hz wouldnt i be missing out on some tones

No. In fact if your speakers have been set to 120hz, that's too high.

Read up on bass management, I'm not going through the same thing again and again. rolleyes.gif I've told you at least once your mains aren't full-range, neither is your center.

http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-setup/bass-management-basics-2013-settings-made-simple
hotrod351's Avatar hotrod351
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post #28 of 36
05-07-2014 | Posts: 206
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talked to yamaha. give them the brand, and specs, of my speakers. said set my cross over to 110Hz, which it is set to. also turned on extra bass, seeing as my fronts are more than capable of handing bass. mad a huge difference in listening to music. as for the article you attached, well same old thing, everything form setting crossover from 80Hz to 120Hz, everything form where do the missing Hz go to they go here. its like a man said in a car stereo forum about setting up your car stereo, which have a lot of setting, slope, delay, crossover and more, he said sit it to where you like it. like you sit it up using all the latest gadgets just to find out your ears dont like it. but yamaha did show me where there was a setting i hadnt turned on or off, and that helped a lot. next i have to try out the enhancer setting for music to hear if that rich-ens up the music. must be a feature thats used a bit seeing as its a button on the remote to easy access. i always figure has long as i learn something then its all good.
fatbottom's Avatar fatbottom
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post #30 of 36
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again they're not full range. Even with dual 8" woofers they do not compare to a subwoofer nor able to reach down to 20hz. I'd probably still set them to small 40hz or so.

Extra bass just duplicates the bass, generally this not a good thing as sub and mains will be reproducing the same. I wouldn't listen to car audio installers. There is no missing bass. If you set your L/R to small 200hz, <200hz is sent to the sub. Sure the L/R will sound tinny lacking any bass. Nothing missing.

But just do what you wanna do and not bother with any advice.rolleyes.gif

I'd set Yamaha center to small 80hz. 110hz is a bit too high

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