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post #1 of 31 Old 05-12-2014, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
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this seems to have been a problem from way back. i find that a some movies, and programs, have a problem with dialogue. problem is i can hardly hear it. i know this is a problem because most receivers, and blu-ray players, that have a feature to enhance the dialogue. but why is this problem even present. im pretty sure if you watch the movies at the theater your going to hear the dialogue. is it that there recorded so different that its nearly impossible to convert it to a home system setup. i just watched Nurse jackie and the sound was fine, then comes Penny dreadful and the dialogue was awful. again ive searched the internet for a few years on this and it seems to be a problem, just cant understand why.
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post #2 of 31 Old 05-12-2014, 06:59 AM
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We have no idea what equipment you use but the solution is simply - turn up the center channel if you have one. If you don't, then get one.
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post #3 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 03:36 AM - Thread Starter
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well after experimenting with settings i finally turned up the center. i was set to -2.5 and now its -1.5. made a huge difference. also tried switching between small and large fro center and fronts, large sounds better to me. anyway the center did the job.
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post #4 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 04:48 AM
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If your center isn't capable of full range I wouldn't set it to large.

Increase center channel level, or enable dialogue normalisation

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post #5 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 06:08 AM
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Additional improvement in center channel dialogue can be had by angling the center speaker up towards your seated head position if the speaker is placed on a lower TV stand shelf rather than have it pointing at your knees.

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post #6 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 06:21 AM
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Or buying a better quality center. I went to a Kef Reference center and it's miles better than old one.

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post #7 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post

or enable dialogue normalisation
That is not a feature that can be enabled or disabled. Dialnorm is a value used by a decoder that can attenuate overall volume. It does not adjust dialog relative to other content in a soundtrack.

The feature is designed to level loudness when switching between sources, so that commercials are no louder than programs, for example, and Dolby based the function on the notion that average dialog should be 27dBs below full scale.

It is volume normalization between programs, not within a program, and uses the average level of dialog as the reference point.
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post #8 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 06:26 AM
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I've had a couple of units that allowed you to enable or disable dialogue normalisation. On a Denon, and Lexicon. Also have vocal enhance
Quote:
DIALOG OFFSET –27 to +4dB
Indicates the dialog normalization value applied to the input signal.
Dolby Digital input sources reproduce dialog at 27 decibels below fullscale (–27dBFS). When the dialog normalization value of the incoming
signal is higher or lower, the DIALOG OFFSET parameter indicates the
amount of adjustment the MC-8 makes to normalize dialog to –27dBFS
Quote:
VOCAL ENHANCE +6.0dB, +3.0dB, +0.0dB
Controls the level of dialog-boost in the audio output connector
labeled Center. Increase this setting to improve dialog intelligibility,
particularly at lower volume levels. Available in all LOGIC 7 modes.

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post #9 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 06:32 AM
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Vocal Enhance is something else and relevant to the OP's issue. Your snip of the dialnorm description is just that, a description. Where does it say you can enable or disable it? (You won't find that in the manual because it can't be done.) And this feature is not about adjusting levels in a mix. It's an attempt to level overall volume between programs.
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post #10 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 06:45 AM
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You could enable/disable dialogue normalisation on a Denon AVD-2000

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post #11 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 06:56 AM
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Sorry, but that is simply not the case. But, I'll play. Please post the portion of the manual explaining how to do that.

Besides, what would disabling the feature even do? You can counteract the effect of dialnorm yourself by simply turning up the master volume by whatever amount DN lowered it. Dialog will get louder. And so will everything else in the track. The mix doesn't change.
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post #12 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 07:06 AM
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Did you have a Denon AVD-2000?


I did.

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post #13 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 07:15 AM
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Ownership is irrelevant. You clearly don't understand the purpose of dialog normalization or how it works.
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post #14 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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my center sits above my tv. i did angle it down. i have dialog enhancement up 1. all i know is that it sounds pretty much perfect to me. as for setting it to small, tried it on small and large, sounds better to me at large, and im the one listing to it. it reminds me me of when i was sitting my truck stereo up, lots of settings, slope, cutoff, and many more. finally one man said = set it to where it sounds good to you. you can over think anything. think of it like this, you pay some one to come out to your home with all the high dollar equipment. he adjust everything to perfect, according to the instruments, but its not to your taste, so then you have to dial it into your listing pleasure. all i know is that it sounds great. im sure it could be better, but it will do for now.
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post #15 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 07:34 AM
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hahaha.

Buy a AVD-2000 and eat your hat.

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post #16 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 07:37 AM
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To answer your original question, movies are mixed to be played very loud in large theaters designed for audio playback. Dialog that can be heard in a theatrical setting may get lost in the lower volume, less ideal settings found in homes.

So, there are tools to help the user set his equipment so that dialog can be heard over music and effects. Boosting the center volume is one such tool. Dynamic Range Compression is another. Audyssey Dynamic EQ is a newer, more sophisticated tool to adjust theatrical mixes to the home environment.
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post #17 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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buy a AVD-2000 pre-amp ? i dont think i need it, and seeing as you can buy them on ebay for $60.00, well thats kind of scary. dont think i want anything that cheap. not rich but not on food stamps either.
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post #18 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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what blew my mind is that yamaha has some amps for $8000.00, geez, out of my range.
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post #19 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod351 View Post

buy a AVD-2000 pre-amp ? i dont think i need it, and seeing as you can buy them on ebay for $60.00, well thats kind of scary. dont think i want anything that cheap. not rich but not on food stamps either.

Not you, bisander. He said you can't adjust dialogue normalisation. With that unit, you can.

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post #20 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
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ok
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post #21 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 09:01 AM
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Thanks for the chart, fatbottom. It says dialnorm is present OR controllable with Dolby sources. Present, yes. Controllable, no. As you have the manual, please post the part showing how you enable/disable dialnorm. And, of course, what does that on/off switch do?
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post #22 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 09:13 AM
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Buy it and find out, I sold it years ago but you could adjust it.

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post #23 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 09:19 AM
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Now, fatbottom, you obviously have access to the manual as you posted a snip in this thread. And, as you claim to remember how to adjust dialnorm on that receiver, you should be able to find the relevant section of the manual without much effort.

Is there a reason you steadfastly refuse to explain what that supposed dialnorm adjustment does or how it is relevant to the OP's question about dialog being overwhelmed by other sounds on some discs when viewed at home?
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post #24 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 09:23 AM
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Download it for yourself

http://www.manualslib.com/manual/441708/Denon-Avd-2000.html

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post #25 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 11:56 AM
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fatbottom, this is no big deal. The OP has found a solution to his problem. My only purpose here is to clarify for others who may come across this thread that dialog normalization is not related to the level of dialog in relation to the levels of effects and music in the same soundtrack. That's a common misconception, understandable because of the name Dolby gave the feature. Dialnorm is about reducing overall volume levels, not changing the mix, and it is not a feature that can be turned on and off or adjusted by the end user. Dialnorm metadata is processed by the decoder before the end user can get involved.
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post #26 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 11:57 AM
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Here is a direct lift from the Dolby Digital Licensing Manual (Issue 5)...

DIALOGUE NORMALIZATION
Since the loudness for various programs such movies, sports, news and music is often different, the consumer must typically readjust the listening volume each time the program changes. For example, the volume may need to be readjusted when switching between different broadcast channels or when a broadcast changes. Dolby Digital eliminates the need to continuously readjust the volume by providing a feature known as dialogue normalization. A dialogue normalization parameter that represents a known dialogue reference level is sent with each audio program delivered using Dolby Digital. The process of dialogue normalization aligns the dialogue reference level to a specific reference output level, thus assuring that the dialogue level of any program is played back at the same output level. This allows all programs to be reproduced at the same subjective loudness and large changes in loudness between different sources and programs can be avoided.

A brand provide the option to turn it ON/OFF but the actual dialogue level is set by a control bit in the native stream encoded by the producer for that respective program. Later more powerful DSPs may include certain post-processing modes such as Audyssey Dynamic Volume & EQ, Dolby Volume, THX or Dirac that works with all digital HD and SD audio encoded streams including DTS, which provide more precise control of the program's dynamic range and loudness contouring...

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post #27 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

fatbottom, this is no big deal. The OP has found a solution to his problem. My only purpose here is to clarify for others who may come across this thread that dialog normalization is not related to the level of dialog in relation to the levels of effects and music in the same soundtrack. That's a common misconception, understandable because of the name Dolby gave the feature. Dialnorm is about reducing overall volume levels, not changing the mix, and it is not a feature that can be turned on and off or adjusted by the end user. Dialnorm metadata is processed by the decoder before the end user can get involved.


Yes you can, in the Denon AVD-2000. It's right there in the manual and you're arguing that it can't be disabled?rolleyes.gif

Buy a AVD-2000 and see for yourself.

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post #28 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 12:28 PM
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Come on. I am trying to be helpful here. You are making a claim that a specific processor can do something that it cannot do. You post a snip of the manual that does not support your claim. It merely says dialog normalization data is present in Dolby sources, which is quite true and not in dispute here. So, I ask you to post the portion of the manual that explains how the user can change dialnorm processing and all you can say is "buy one and try it yourself". Sheesh. And, of course, you refuse to explain why any of this is even relevant to the issue of low dialog in a home environment. It seems like you just want to argue.
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post #29 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
You are making a claim that a specific processor can do something that it cannot do

Do you have some kind of reading problem ? Yes you can adjust it. It is one of the very few units which can. Page 24.

I owned one. Have you? So without owning one you're saying that it can't be done. Righty-ho.

eat your hat hahaha

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post #30 of 31 Old 06-07-2014, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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there is a lot of interesting information being posted here.
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