The 'Official' 2014 Denon "S Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 12 - AVS Forum
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post #331 of 1275 Old 06-15-2014, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post

OK but what extra meta data is included in the 5.1 mix?
I don't think what you will hear will be much different if at all from a normal 5.1 HD audio mix.
The extra atmos stuff will be for channels above the 5.1 setup.
Heights, wides extra surrounds, etc.
Not really anything in the primary 5.1 mix.

So again, the benefits will be small to none for 5.1 setups.

If you have info contrary to that I'm all ears and would like to read up on it.
It's not extra, it's a different way of processing. Why is DTS coded differently than Dolby? There isn't extra there, it's just a different coding. Same here, object placement cues whatever speakers are present to recreate the sound in X part of the listener's space. 5.1 will be different. You're still thinking channels and extra data on top of that. Nope, it's positional data for everything.

Let's say we need an object (motorcycle sound) coming from the rear right forward and crossing left. Atmos looks to recreate the where that sound needs to be every millisecond and uses whatever speakers are present to make that happen. The number of speakers is largely irrelevant. Channel based pushes specific sounds to specific channels in sequence, which isn't as flexible.
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post #332 of 1275 Old 06-15-2014, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Not to be nit picky but from what I understand it's not positional data for *everything*. There is a "bed" of static, traditional channel based audio and then on top of that you have the objects with positional metadata.
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post #333 of 1275 Old 06-15-2014, 03:46 PM
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True, and it's not nit-picky We don't know everything just yet, but it should be a different option which some may prefer. I liked DTS better than Dolby, but I am hopeful that Atmos will provide some new interesting options, especially for the action movie genre.

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post #334 of 1275 Old 06-15-2014, 04:06 PM
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Which again I don't think it will be that revolutionary for 5.1 setups.
Now I do think they can and will improve dialog during say midnight type modes.
I'm looking forward to the reviews on 5.1 systems which makes up the majority of home setups.
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post #335 of 1275 Old 06-15-2014, 06:25 PM
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^guys,

I'm wondering if Yamaha's DSP engine with "presence" speakers does a similar thing as Dolby Atmos. Would like to ask this question to AVS member FilmMixer who makes a living mixing sound for movies.

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post #336 of 1275 Old 06-15-2014, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
^guys,

I'm wondering if Yamaha's DSP engine with "presence" speakers does a similar thing as Dolby Atmos. Would like to ask this question to AVS member FilmMixer who makes a living mixing sound for movies.
I doubt it is anything like it at all.
If I'm not mistaken it was FM who said Atmos won't do anything to a 5.1 system.
I figure he would have good info on the subject.
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post #337 of 1275 Old 06-16-2014, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
^guys,

I'm wondering if Yamaha's DSP engine with "presence" speakers does a similar thing as Dolby Atmos. Would like to ask this question to AVS member FilmMixer who makes a living mixing sound for movies.
Yamaha's "enhanced" DSP stuff has absolutely nothing to do with Atmos, it's not even remotely similar. It's more akin to ambience extraction like DSX but it is still fundamentally channel based audio. Presence speakers are the conceptual heir to modern height and wide channel speakers but Atmos isn't about the number of channels.

Atmos and object based audio in general is a brand new thing. There has never been anything like it in home theater. It's a fundamentally different way of mixing audio than the traditional "this sound goes to that channel" approach.

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post #338 of 1275 Old 06-16-2014, 06:10 PM
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^batpig,

Will there be a significant improvement in sound quality as a result of implementing object based audio vs. the traditional method of channels?

When people start saying it's a night and day difference, I'm a little bit skeptical of all this marketing. I don't have any industry/inside information on this. It's just a big black hole with nothing to substantiate the improvement in quality.

How does one compare going from channel based audio to object based audio? What would it be like? Say with the standard 5.1 set-up that's pretty common these days, would having Atmos significantly move the dial in audio vs. a good mixed channel? By just listening can one definitely say this is an Atmos audio? Or is it a subtle change that gets lost in the overall soundtrack?

Would it be like going from lossy low bit rate mp3 to lossless HD audio?

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post #339 of 1275 Old 06-17-2014, 06:12 AM
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I'm not batpig, but...

My understanding is that one will be able to individually control the volume levels of each of the objects. Supposedly one of the objects is "dialog". In other words, when the dialog is swamped by the special effects and theme music, you'll be able to turn up just the dialog so you can hear it more clearly.

The quality of the audio will be unchanged. The original sampling rate and bit depth are not affected, although, of course, the final amplitude will be.

(I assume other adjustments will be available, too, but exactly what they will be is currently unknown.)

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post #340 of 1275 Old 06-17-2014, 08:04 AM
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Delivery Schedule

Looks like the new X2100W and lower models are delayed until the end of this month, however, it has been confirmed that the X3100W will be available in July vice August for the X4100W and X5200W.
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post #341 of 1275 Old 06-17-2014, 10:16 AM
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I have a question about sound modes on my X1000. I was just having a read of the manual because I think I've been listening to the wrong sound mode and I'm still confused.

I've been watching various blu-rays (Black Hawk Down, Cloverfield, LOTR FOTR EE, Lone Survivor, Transformers Dark Side of the Moon) on my Sony BDP-S3200 hooked up to my receiver via HDMI but what displays on my receiver has been DTS HD MA, DTS, Dolby D and PLII Cinema. What am I doing wrong?

For the most part it's been displaying the latter 3 instead of of DTS HD MA or Dolby HD.

FYI I've been using Movie sound mode but I'm just now realizing there's multiple formats within Movie. Should I use Pure or something else?

EDIT: Just realized I posted this in the wrong thread, I've put it in the 2013 thread now too.

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post #342 of 1275 Old 06-17-2014, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Looks like the new X2100W and lower models are delayed until the end of this month, however, it has been confirmed that the X3100W will be available in July vice August for the X4100W and X5200W.
Wow, August for the X5200W! That's much sooner than I expected. I wonder how soon after the X5200W hits the streets Denon will make the firmware update for "3D audio" available -- not that it matters much if there's no content yet...
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post #343 of 1275 Old 06-17-2014, 12:00 PM
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Ok, ya got me. What's "3D audio"?
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post #344 of 1275 Old 06-17-2014, 12:05 PM
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Wow, August for the X5200W! That's much sooner than I expected. I wonder how soon after the X5200W hits the streets Denon will make the firmware update for "3D audio" available -- not that it matters much if there's no content yet...
Keep in mind the X5200W is just a 9CH upgrade from the X4100W as the new flagship X7200W is not due out until Dec.

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post #345 of 1275 Old 06-17-2014, 12:16 PM
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Ok, ya got me. What's "3D audio"?
It's the term the European sites have coined for Dolby Atmos and DTS UHD.

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post #346 of 1275 Old 06-17-2014, 12:27 PM
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Do we know which models will be made in Japan and which ones will come from China? I'm not trying to start a debate on build quality, but I've been happier with my Japan-made 3808ci and 4311ci.
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post #347 of 1275 Old 06-17-2014, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I think JD noted elsewhere that the 5200 and 7200 will be Japan made.
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post #348 of 1275 Old 06-17-2014, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
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Keep in mind the X5200W is just a 9CH upgrade from the X4100W as the new flagship X7200W is not due out until Dec.
Are we to infer from this that the X5200 will be basically identical to the X4100 but with two additional amps? And that the X7200 will up to ante to 11 (this would be new information)? And what about the expandability of the three models (all of which appear to have 13.2 pre-outs)?

With an anticipated delivery date of August, surely the specs on the X5200 must be definitive by now.
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post #349 of 1275 Old 06-17-2014, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Keep in mind the X5200W is just a 9CH upgrade from the X4100W as the new flagship X7200W is not due out until Dec.
Copy that...I'm definitely holding out for the X7200W. Is it fair to assume that the new receivers will include both Dolby Atmos and DTS UHD?

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Are we to infer from this that the X5200 will be basically identical to the X4100 but with two additional amps? And that the X7200 will up to ante to 11 (this would be new information)? And what about the expandability of the three models (all of which appear to have 13.2 pre-outs)?

With an anticipated delivery date of August, surely the specs on the X5200 must be definitive by now.
The specs posted on European sites indicate that the X7200W will also have "only" nine amplified channels. What will differentiate it from the lower models will be a beefier amplifier section and better DACs/processing (three processing chips vs. two and 32-bit processing vs. 24-bit). Whether this will generate an audible improvement is open for debate.
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post #350 of 1275 Old 06-17-2014, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
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Are we to infer from this that the X5200 will be basically identical to the X4100 but with two additional amps? And that the X7200 will up to ante to 11 (this would be new information)? And what about the expandability of the three models (all of which appear to have 13.2 pre-outs)?

With an anticipated delivery date of August, surely the specs on the X5200 must be definitive by now.
Not at all ... as the USA specs haven't been released yet, likely later in July.

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post #351 of 1275 Old 06-17-2014, 02:29 PM
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regarding dts-hd tracks with tacked-on atmos metadata:

isn't it a bit unrealistic to expect that we will have both backward compatibility (as in all sounds being played) for "legacy" receivers AND meaningful positional data that will improve what we hear for atmos receivers in the same track?

let's say we have a channel-based track with a heli flying from SL through SBL, SBR to SR channels and explosions happening at the same time through SBL and SBR.
we also have positional metadata for the heli.
how would atmos extract just the heli sounds from this channel-based track to "mix" it with the positional metadata?

it seems to me we can have one, not both on the same track.
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post #352 of 1275 Old 06-17-2014, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
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regarding dts-hd tracks with tacked-on atmos metadata:

isn't it a bit unrealistic to expect that we will have both backward compatibility (as in all sounds being played) for "legacy" receivers AND meaningful positional data that will improve what we hear for atmos receivers in the same track?

let's say we have a channel-based track with a heli flying from SL through SBL, SBR to SR channels and explosions happening at the same time through SBL and SBR.
we also have positional metadata for the heli.
how would atmos extract just the heli sounds from this channel-based track to "mix" it with the positional metadata?

it seems to me we can have one, not both on the same track.
Good question; better to ask over in the main Atmos thread as to how this will work.

As I understand it DTS-HD won't have tacked-on Atmos metadata since DTS will use their own object-based audio format called DTS-UHD. Only core Dolby soundtracks will include the Atmos extensions.
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post #353 of 1275 Old 06-19-2014, 08:55 AM
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Amazon Release Date Slips :(

Amazon just changed the release date of the AVR-S700W from June 23rd to July 5. Bummer. I was really counting on getting it next week!

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post #354 of 1275 Old 06-19-2014, 02:34 PM
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No X3100

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...250_em_1p_0_ti. The 2100 is there but no X3100 for July 5.
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post #355 of 1275 Old 06-20-2014, 07:47 AM
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x2100W Available at Best Buy

I just purchased my x2100W for in-store pickup at Best Buy moments ago. I won't be able to pick it up until tomorrow, but thought those waiting for news of availability would be interested...
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post #356 of 1275 Old 06-20-2014, 08:31 AM
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^^
Then again for those that can wait another couple of weeks, you would be well served to call me at AVScience.
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post #357 of 1275 Old 06-20-2014, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
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^^
Then again for those that can wait another couple of weeks, you would be well served to call me at AVScience.
I am holding out for either the x4100 or x5200. And you, sir, will be getting a call about one of those
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post #358 of 1275 Old 06-20-2014, 10:16 AM
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Only reason I'm not calling you is that you're in Orlando and I'm in Spokane, WA. That's literally the worst possible US distance for me and I'd totally wait 2 extra days for shipping. Those are a grueling 2 days~!!
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post #359 of 1275 Old 06-20-2014, 11:15 AM
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FWIW, there are AVS reps on the West Coast, too. Also, the location of the person you order from does not necessarily determine the warehouse it's shipped from.

Disclaimer: I've never ordered anything from AVS and am not affiliated with them in any way other than reading and posting on this forum.

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post #360 of 1275 Old 06-20-2014, 01:49 PM
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Only reason I'm not calling you is that you're in Orlando and I'm in Spokane, WA. That's literally the worst possible US distance for me and I'd totally wait 2 extra days for shipping. Those are a grueling 2 days~!!
The warehouse is in New York, although still cross country to be sure. Just depends on whether the savings is worth the wait or not and whether you have to pay taxes as you would purchasing from Best Buy.

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