Pioneer Elite SC-71 Zone 2 Speaker Help - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 37 Old 06-08-2014, 12:19 AM - Thread Starter
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I just bought this receiver. My old receiver had places to attach my speaker wire for an extra zone and was labeled as such. In other words I had the speaker wires for other rooms in my house attached to my old receiver along with all of my speaker wires for the surround sound in my living room. I bought this SC-71 because it said it was multi-zone. While I do see a place for a Zone 2 HDMI cable, I do not see a place for Zone 2 speaker wires. Could someone please tell me if there is a way to attach Zone 2 speaker wires to this receiver? I see places for speaker wires labeled "Front", "Center", "Front Height/Front Wide", "Surround Back", and "Surround". There are enough slots for me to attach my right and left Zone 2 speaker wires but none of the speaker wire receptacles on the back of the receiver are labeled for Zone 2. As you can see I do not know much about electronics. Can someone tell me how to hook up my Zone 2 speakers on this unit? If it is not possible to do so please let me know because if so I will need to return this receiver to Best Buy.

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post #2 of 37 Old 06-08-2014, 04:30 AM
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read your manual thoroughly.

there are B speaker options for speaker configurations and multizone configurations. there is a subtle but real difference between the 2 and how the receiver treats them.

also, to avoid frustration on your part, read about speaker configurations including the wiring diagrams. just don't start hooking things up and expect it to work the way you think it should. how speaker terminals get used depends on the speaker configuration you select in the Speaker Setup menu. read all the sections on using multizones and/or B speakers - speaker selecting with remote. the info is not all in one place so you'll have to look at the table of contents and become familiar with how the manual is laid out.

Zone 2 is not the same as B speakers. B speakers play the same source as in main room. multizones can play different sources that you select with buttons on the front panel or remote, than in the main room. further there are limitations on sources you can play in multizones. the manual will spell these out...but you will not be able to listen to an HDMI or digital coax/toslink source in Zone 2. the receiver doesn't convert HDMI audio to digital or analog audio. if you want a zone for HDMI source, use the HD HDMI Zone 4 for sending HDMI to another room via an HDMI cable, then need a receiver or TV on the other end to decode it. Zone 2/3 will need analog connections from your sources & you can listen to Internet Radio, Pandora, ipod IIRC. the chart of sources is in the manual.

B speakers are just speaker terminal switching so should not be limits on sources.

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post #3 of 37 Old 06-08-2014, 06:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for the information. It will take some study for me to understand everything you stated. The only literature that came with the unit is a very thin few pages...there is no operators manual much to my frustration. Moreover I cannot seem to find an operator's manual online. The only thing as far as zone 2 is concerned is hook up one set of speakers. Like I said there are enough receptacles for me to hook the zone 2 speakers up but none of the receptacles are labeled for zone 2 so I am at a lost. The box has a customer service number on it for set up so I guess I will call it Monday and let them tell me how to do it (if it can be done). It is really amazing to me that they would sell a complex item like this and not include an owner's manual.

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post #4 of 37 Old 06-08-2014, 06:24 AM - Thread Starter
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What I meant to say is for now I simply want to hook my receiver to additional stereo speakers in another part of the house and with my old receiver it was as simple as hooking them into speaker receptacles labeled "Zone 2". That option is not there on the SC-71 and I have no owner manual so I am struggling to know if it can be done and if so how.

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post #5 of 37 Old 06-08-2014, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pionew View Post

What I meant to say is for now I simply want to hook my receiver to additional stereo speakers in another part of the house and with my old receiver it was as simple as hooking them into speaker receptacles labeled "Zone 2". That option is not there on the SC-71 and I have no owner manual so I am struggling to know if it can be done and if so how.

yes it is, just not named the same thing. you want a B speakers setup BUT you can't just connect speakers to the terminals that are optionally labeled for B speakers. you MUST also select a speaker configuration in the Manual Speaker Setup menu that specifically has B speakers. the normal one won't get you them even if you had the speakers wired to the terminals correctly.

that's why you can't just connect them up and have it work because it won't.

that's why you'll need to consult the manual or stumble thru the menus wink.gif

you have a manual, in pdf form, on the AVNavigator disc that came with your receiver. that should be explained on the quick start guide paper that was in the box with the receiver. plus you can download any Pioneer manual from their website. go to Pioneer US, find the SC-71 and there's a link for Owner's Manual and Firmware. these companies haven't put paper manuals in for several yrs. it's all pdf files. unless you are already familiar with setting up Pioneer receivers, unless you are very lucky or good at stumbling thru the setups, you will need the manual to properly configure it and use it.

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post #6 of 37 Old 06-08-2014, 08:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for your confirming that I can set up my zone 2 speakers with this system. Alas, I have a disk! Thanks for the information. I will definitely consult the manual now that I know I have one!

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post #7 of 37 Old 06-09-2014, 02:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Issue #1

 

Okay, so I went through all of the steps and attempted to configure it as my other room speakers being "Zone 2". I did this because I wanted to be able to use two different input selections at the same time. I have my full surround sound system in the living room and then I just have two stereo speakers in my bedroom. I had it set up perfectly with my old Onkyo system. I followed the speaker setup Zone 2 instructions given in the Pioneer manual and I could not get any response from my bedroom speakers at all when I selected Zone 2. I spent a few hours dinging around looking at the manual and trying to figure out why but to no avail. Finally I pulled everything back out and rewired it to confirm to the "Speaker B" configuration. This worked fine and I can listen to the stereo in my bedroom now but the problem with this configuration is it does not allow me to select two inputs simultaneously (one for my living room, a different one for my bedroom). Any ideas why I could not get the Zone 2 configuration to work?

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post #8 of 37 Old 06-09-2014, 03:49 AM
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Zone 2 -

1. did you change speaker configurations in speaker setup menu to one with a zone 2? the default, which is called Normal 9.1, will not enable zone 2 because all amps are assigned for the normal one room surround setup. u must select one of those that's 7.1 + zone 2 or 5.1 + zone 2, etc.

2. recall that I told you there are limitations on what kinds of input sources you can use in multizones. analog inputs only. there is a chart in the manual that gives the inputs that will work in zones 2/3. HDMI and digital do not work. so if you have an external HDMI or digital source (other than built-in ones like internet radio) that you want to listen to in zone 2/3 then you must also connect it with analog and then also select the analog audio signal using the SIG SEL button on the remote. by default it's set to Auto and the priority of signal detection/use is HDMI >>Dig >> Analog. if you have 2 connections, both HDMI/digital and analog, it will always select the HDMI/dig 1st and that won't get passed to Zone 2. in this case, manually select analog signal using the SIG SEL button.

3. also, you have to pick the input for Zone 2 using front panel or remote buttons s described in the manual. There is a set of button presses where you select the zone, then select its input source which can be the same or different than main room.

you didn't mention that you wanted independent sources but that's why I mentioned there is a difference between the B speakers and Zones. one is simply playing 2 sets of speakers, the other allows independent sources.

this is also why I said a manual is absolutely necessary for setting up a modern receiver. there are complex with many nuances and setup configuration items to make them do what you want wink.gif

see if these help you. it works...just have to sort out all that's involved, from connections to setup to use smile.gif

Steve
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post #9 of 37 Old 06-09-2014, 05:50 AM - Thread Starter
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The answer to question #1 is yes, I did change speaker configurations in speaker setup menu to one with a zone 2. It didn't work. That is when I changed my configuration to "Speaker B" and selected that on the speaker setup menu and it worked. So let me see if I have this right....what I am trying to do with zone 2 is simply be able to listen to my music in my bedroom (2 speakers there) while watching TV in the living room (5.1 surround sound in there). So basically all I want or need to use zone 2 for is to listen to my ipod. The Ipod works just fine plugged directly into the front of the pioneer. So is what your saying that I cannot listen to that Ipod in zone 2 (stereo speakers in my bedroom) unless I change some default setting to "analog" for Zone 2?

 

Regarding your #3. When I had it configured for zone 2, I did indeed select zone 2 on the remote and I could see on the display that it had switched over to zone 2 and then I selected "Ipod" as the input for it but still go no sound.

 

Glad to know that is is possible to do what I am trying to do with this receiver. I need to get back in there and switch the speaker wires back to a zone 2 configuration again. I just cannot figure out why it wasn't working. I think I did everything correctly. So if I have it wired correctly and then I correctly change it over to "zone 2" on the set up menu, then I press "Zone 2" on the remote and then press "Ipod", should it work or do you think I have the problem where I somehow have to select "Anolog". Really don't know why it did not work when I set it up before and I believe me it is no fun at all getting back there and changing the speaker wires! lol. Thanks for all this help.

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post #10 of 37 Old 06-09-2014, 12:12 PM
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ipod plugged into the USB front is one which should work with Zone 2 according the manual, no analog required.

eureka I think I found your problem...check annotation (A) in the manual....pg 32

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01


yes, you can use ipod in zone 2 BUT with this limitation, you have to pick Ipod for both main zone & zone 2. can't do TV in one, ipod in the other. remember I said there were source/signal limitations...this is one of them. you really have to read the fine print in the manual. if the sub zone had an analog source, you could do independent sources. but in this case, they have to be the same. so it will act the same as speaker B setup.

just for the record, the steps for zones with the SC-71 are:

pick speaker configuration E, 5.1 + zone 2

connect the zone 2 speakers to the surround back terminals since the speaker configuration will now use those for zone 2 instead of normal surround back channels for 7.1. note: B speakers are plugged into different terminals, the ones normally used for front height/wide. zone 2 get plugged into surround back terminals so if you swapped between them, a connection change is needed.

run Full Auto MCACC calibration so that your 5.1 speakers are calibrated and receiver knows the surround backs are now zone 2 not in main room. zone 2 speakers should be set as Large if they're visible in the menu listing. I don't do zones so can't tell you what the MCACC gui will be for setup with zones.

with the other configurations, the remote SPEAKER button will switch between FH/FW or A, B, A+B. for zone configuration, the SPEAKER button will only switch the main room speakers on/off. shouldn't matter but make sure the main room is on just in case.

select zone 2 using remote button or front panel, select the input for zone 2, in this case Ipod - USB

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post #11 of 37 Old 06-09-2014, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, you are quite smart!

 

Reading through what you just highlighted...it says that when the Ipod is selected in the main zone, only the same input can be selected in the zone 2. HOWEVER IT DOES NOT SAY THAT IF CABLE/SATELITE IS SELECTED IN THE MAIN ZONE THAT THE IPOD CANNOT BE SELECTED IN ZONE 2. So, that sounds like that I should indeed be able to select TV input in the living room and also select Ipod in Zone 2 don't you think?

 

 

If not, then I guess that is one useful feature that the Onkyo has that the Pioneer does not. I am glad that I don't have to select analog though. I actually have speakers in several rooms of the house and outside on the patio but I have all of these speakers including the bedroom speakers coming into a single component port that then has one set of right left speakers that lead into the Pioneer receiver. I can switch buttons on the port to select some or all of the different rooms. So the main reason I liked the zone 2 option is I could barbeque on the patio with music coming through the speakers out there while my friends were in the house watch ball games in surround sound on the TV.

 

If that is not possible (and please read my all caps in the first paragraph because I am thinking it still might be possible) though then it  sounds like "Speaker B" could be the right choice for me and here is why...when I have friends over, I could turn off speaker A and listen to the ipod through speaker B only. That way I only hear music on the patio and then what I could do is disconnect the "HDMI out" from the Pioneer and also disconnect the "HDMI in" from the Pioneer receiver. Now I could then just take the HDMI out" connected to my cable box and hook it directly to my TV. That way although the sound will not be through the Pioneer, my friends can watch TV with TV sound while the Ipod music is cranking outside. Does that sound like it would work?

 

I am not sure what MCACC calibration is. Is that the little round thing that came with the unit with the long cord that you are supposed to put wherever you are sitting in the room and at the same height as you will be sitting in the room that you plug into the Pioneer and run a test while the room is quiet?

 

Please be sure you read my first paragraph with the all caps again and tell me if you agree with that.

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post #12 of 37 Old 06-09-2014, 10:17 PM
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You should be able to play a hdmi surround sound source in the main zone while playing stereo from ipod or server in zone 2. Forget about speaker b. Do it right for dual source simultaneously. After amp channels are assigned properly in manual speaker setup menu plug the microphone into the front of the receiver and run that room correction software routine.

Then try to play the ipod in zone 1. Once that works select zone 2. Now select the ipod for that active zone 2. Once that output starts select zone 1. Now select hdmi etc. desired for zone 1. Both zones are outputting different audio sources.
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post #13 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 12:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Bingo! It works! I have not performed the MCACC yet. Thank you so much for your help. Both zones working...only catch is with Ipod in Zone 2 and cable in zone 1 I can't see the ipod menu but that is just fine because I can just make a playlist and let it rip and can fast forward to the next song with the remote.

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post #14 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 02:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay, I ran the MCACC check. It came up with a reverse phase but I checked the speaker and it was hooked up fine so I hit "Go Next" and left the room. For around 10 minutes I could hear the sound checks going on. When I walked back in the checks were over and the screen was simply back to the MCACC main menu. There was no message saying "successful" and there was no error message either. Does this mean that the test was finished and sound adjusted successfully?

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post #15 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 02:13 AM - Thread Starter
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One more issue. I have been listening to my Ipod in my main room but for some reason the subwoofer is not being used at all. Whether I have just plain stereo selected or any other of the sound options such as "PL II Music". No subwoofer at all. Any idea why?

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post #16 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 02:27 AM - Thread Starter
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I am getting no subwoofer on blu-ray either. Yet the MCACC test said the subwoofer was OK. Sigh. I just can't seem to escape problems.

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post #17 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 02:31 AM - Thread Starter
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In case it is important, the first time I ran MCACC, it stopped and said my subwoofer volume was too loud and it asked that I turn it down to continue. I went to the back of the subwoofer and looked at the volume level. It was at about half volume so I turned it down to about one fourth volume and continued running the MCACC calibration. The calibration then went forward without a problem. I just get no subwoofer at all now no matter what input I am using.

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post #18 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 02:54 AM - Thread Starter
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FYI, the subwoofer was working before the MCACC calibration but not now.

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post #19 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 03:06 AM - Thread Starter
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The following is what the MCACC has set my speakers to...

 

Left = -3.0 dB

Center = +1.5 dB

Right = -2.5 dB

Surround Right = -3.0 dB

Surround Left = -4.5 dB

Subwoofer = +0.5 dB

 

Cannot figure out why the subwoofer does not kick in at all especially on Blu-Ray. Sounds extremely trebly without the subwoofer.

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post #20 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 03:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is what the MCACC has input as my speaker distance. While most of the distances are probably about right, the subwoofer distance is WAY OFF. In reality the subwoofer is right next to the right front speaker so it is really like 11 feet away from the listening area not 17 feet! Here are the MCACC speaker distance readings...

 

Left - 10 feet 0 inches

 

Center - 9 feet 4.5 inches

 

Right - 11 feet 9 inches

 

Surround Right - 11 feet 2.5 inches

 

Surround Left - 10 feet 1 inch

 

Subwoofer - 17 feet 11.5 inches (THAT IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO BEING CORRECT!)

 

Again, I am getting just zero output from the subwoofer no matter what input or volume I listen to.

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post #21 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 04:03 AM
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don't have much time to help you anymore. but your sub dist is OK!

thats not physical dist but acoustic distance taking into acct. how bass freq's bounce off walls, ceiling, floor and waves reinforce each other or nullify each other at all the freq's. plus electrical delay thru the processing chip.

don't question it so much, it's smarter than you think wink.gif just enjoy! smile.gif we go thru this every time someone new to modern home theater receivers or new to Pioneer starts questioning the basics of how MCACC calibration (or any of them for that matter) work. you are not unique wink.gif I have an external audyssey based sub EQ'r that sets distance for my 2 subs at over 22 ft when they are about 15 ft away and its distance is greater than Pioneer's - due to added lag time thru the EQr box wink.gif

have fun smile.gif

the freq's used to set speaker distances are not as subject to room modes as bass freq's which have wavelengths in the feet range so peaks and valleys in the bass region occur at specific distances in every room depending not on the sub, electronics but solely based on the room dimensions...they are very predictable and can be calculated. so bass waves can interfere with each other, reducing the amplitude of some freq's while others are added to each other, causing a peak. all the receiver is doing is sending a fixed freq to the sub, probably 63 Hz and measuring the delay distance based on how the response is for that freq at the place you put the mic. you can move the mic 1 to several feet in any direction and get a different measurement & response all due to room modes.

Steve
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post #22 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Your time has been much appreciated. I will call Pioneer for the question on subwoof out put. Have a nice day.

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post #23 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pionew View Post

Again, I am getting just zero output from the subwoofer no matter what input or volume I listen to.

I missed this part. your sub will get redirected bass from all speakers set to SMALL. sometimes your fronts will be detected as full range and set to LARGE. this means that with 2 channel sources, your fronts will get all bass and not the sub. yostu'll also need to learn how the bass & the .1 LFE track is handled by bass mgmt. if receiver is in Direct or Pure Direct audio mode with 2 ch sources, and any speakers are set to LARGE, then sub will not get used. for 5.1 and 7.1 tracks, Auto Surround, Direct and any of the Dolby, DTS and THX processing modes will send the .1 LFE track plus redirected bass from SMALL speakers to the sub.

so sub use is highly dependent on 1) # channels in the source 2) audio mode you select (Auto Surround, Direct, Pure Direct, ALC, Optimum, dolby, DTS, or THX formats selected 3) speakers set to SMALL or LARGE 4) crossover selected.

this is covered and explained in some general terms in the manual.

newcomers also have this question "I don't hear my sub" all the time smile.gif 99.999% of the time, its because they don't know or understand how bass mgmt & the settings in the receiver work....IOW, setup. and knowledge wink.gif

in general, it's best to set all speakers to Small, and let the sub handle all bass below the crossover, even if your fronts or others are supposedly full range, good to 30-40 HZ. there is LFE info all the way down to 20 HZ and sometimes even less and not many speakers can handle 20 HZ, let alone < 20 HZ.

hope these tips help but again, unless your sub cable is defective, and if MCACC sent thumps to the sub, you heard them and it set the SUB to Yes, then the sub is most likely OK, 99.99% sure wink.gif and it all depends on your speaker settings (SMALL vs LARGE) the type of source, and the sound format used.\

Pioneer may be able to help you understand this better and how to properly setup bass mgmt. and settings.

Steve
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post #24 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes the MCACC changed my speakers from small to large and that is when I stopped hearing the sub. Can I simply switch them to large again or will that screw up what the MCACC detected as the proper settings incorrect? Yes the sub is working because it was thumping during the tests and worked before the MCACC was run. The rest of what you said may be to technical for me to understand. I don't understand the part about a crossover. Not sure what a crossover is or how to select it. I will call Pioneer directly though tomorrow or the next day to see if they can help me.

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post #25 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 03:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Made the adjustments....all speakers switched to small and it sounds great. Question for you...On my Paradigm subwoofer there are 3 different settings "Subwoofer Level", "Subwoofer Cutoff Frequency" and "Sub./Sat. Phase Alignment" Do you have any suggestions on what each of these should be set to?

 

Also the cable running from the Subwoofer to the receiver is placed in the "From Sub Out., LFE-out or Pre-out" receptacle on the back of the subwoofer. There is another slot next to it for a cable that reads "Low Level Input" that has no cable in it. Does this sound like I have my subwoofer cable in the right place in the back of my subwoofer?

 

Thanks...I think this is all the questions I have. I would like to know the proper setting for the subwoofer.

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post #26 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 05:30 PM
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Don't call pioneer. This is better. Every time the setup software sets the speakers to large, change them back to small. The receiver will control the crossover or filter setting. Bypass the crossover on the subwoofer or set it to max. The crossover basically sends the deep bass (80hz and below) to the subwoofer and the upper bass, midrange and highs (80hz and above) go to the main speakers and surround.

So subwoofer cutoff frequency is set to max. Set phase alignment to zero. This has little effect and can be set where it is louder/better as you like. Experiment a little if you like.

Subwoofer level is a little more complicated. When the sub gain/volume knob is correct the mcacc software will set the subwoofer level to close to zero. Go into the manual speaker menu and verify speaker level on subwoofer. If the level is -10 the subwoofer volume knob is too high. +10 is too low. Somewhat trial and error. Once mcacc likes the sub level don't touch the knob again. Do any further subwoofer adjustments with the receiver controls.

You only need to connect one rca port on subwoofer. Try them both if you want but turn off subwoofer power while disconnecting/connecting the rca cable. If it works use it.
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post #27 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay when you say set subwoofer cutoff frequency to max, I am not sure which of the three controls on my subwoofer you are referring to. Here are my controls:

 

1. "Subwoofer Level" (dial runs from "Min" to "Max")

 

2. "Subwoofer Cutoff Frequency" ( dial runs from 50Hz to 150Hz)

 

3. "Sub./Sat. Phase Allignment" (dial runs from 0 degrees to 180 degrees)

 

So when you say set the subwoofer cutoff to max do you mean number one above which is the "Subwoofer Level" or are you talking about number 2 above which is "Subwoofer Cutoff Frequency"? I assume you mean number two but I just want to make sure. So you are saying set my "Subwoofer Cutoff Frequency" dial to 150Hz?

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post #28 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Also, you said "bypass crossover on the subwoofer". How would I do this?

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post #29 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for another question. To me...it seems like the lip movement of the people on television is slightly out of sync with the timing of the sound of their voice. Could this be the receiver and if so is there an adjustment for it?

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post #30 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pionew View Post

Okay when you say set subwoofer cutoff frequency to max, I am not sure which of the three controls on my subwoofer you are referring to. Here are my controls:

1. "Subwoofer Level" (dial runs from "Min" to "Max")

2. "Subwoofer Cutoff Frequency" ( dial runs from 50Hz to 150Hz)

3. "Sub./Sat. Phase Allignment" (dial runs from 0 degrees to 180 degrees)

So when you say set the subwoofer cutoff to max do you mean number one above which is the "Subwoofer Level" or are you talking about number 2 above which is "Subwoofer Cutoff Frequency"? I assume you mean number two but I just want to make sure. So you are saying set my "Subwoofer Cutoff Frequency" dial to 150Hz?
#2. Set the subwoofer amp crossover setting to the highest level. In this case 150hz. That way the receiver crossover will be effective and in control at 80hz. Then the subwoofer crossover isn't doing anything. Set #3 at 0. Then adjust to anywhere you think it may sound better. #1 is set to where the receiver wants it. Speaker level 0 or close to it. Each speaker will have a level. This is volume level. This is to match volume of all speakers. Some are louder and/or farther away (quieter).

You can't really bypass the sub crossover so set to max. Lip-sync problems are common. I'll look into that. Maybe a pioneer expert can take that one. Is the video ahead of the audio or the opposite?
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