Marantz AV8802 13.2 XLR Pre/Pro **Official Thread** - Page 386 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11551 of 14135 Old 09-26-2016, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Well, there is the AudioControl Maestro M9. it's less expensive than the Trinnov and includes Dirac.

I find its lack of xlr connectors disturbing.
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post #11552 of 14135 Old 09-26-2016, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by boe View Post
I find its lack of xlr connectors disturbing.
They're missing only on the overhead speaker outputs. All the ear-level outputs have them.

A picture of the backpanel is available at http://www.audiocontrol.com/wp-conte...ro-m9-back.jpg

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post #11553 of 14135 Old 09-26-2016, 12:14 PM
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Setting up my new AV8802A

Hey guys,

I just received my new Pre and spent the weekend setting it up and testing it, what a joy!
It is currently connected to 2 Emotiva XPA3 Gen3 Amps, powering up a 5.1 system that will be expanded to support Atmos when I can dedicate a room for it. In the meantime it is in my living room.

When I ran Audyssey for the first time, it gave me a message that my speakers were out of phase and asked me to switch the wires (or ignore). My speakers are certainly not out of phase, they are properly connected. Anyone has an idea why I would get this message? Not sure if calibration is affected somehow as I chose to ignore and continue.

Thank you in advance!
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post #11554 of 14135 Old 09-26-2016, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Gurt View Post
Hey guys,

I just received my new Pre and spent the weekend setting it up and testing it, what a joy!
It is currently connected to 2 Emotiva XPA3 Gen3 Amps, powering up a 5.1 system that will be expanded to support Atmos when I can dedicate a room for it. In the meantime it is in my living room.

When I ran Audyssey for the first time, it gave me a message that my speakers were out of phase and asked me to switch the wires (or ignore). My speakers are certainly not out of phase, they are properly connected. Anyone has an idea why I would get this message? Not sure if calibration is affected somehow as I chose to ignore and continue.

Thank you in advance!
It listens each speaker output. If it found a driver pushing outward when it should have been inward, that's why. You may be sure but check wiring to make sure all + and - are correct. It's also possible one of your PwrAmps is set to run inverted.
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post #11555 of 14135 Old 09-26-2016, 09:18 PM
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Hi,

I am having an issue with a NVIDIA Shield output, I have an Epson 9300 projector connected to my AV8802a, the projector will only display from the NVIDIA (also only in 1080p and not 4K) when my tv connected to monitor 2 is switched on, without the tv on I get signal not supported, I have connected the NVIDIA directly bypassing the processor and get a 4K signal, any ideas what's causing this? I hope I explained clearly.

Cheers,

Phil
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post #11556 of 14135 Old 09-27-2016, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurt View Post
Hey guys,

I just received my new Pre and spent the weekend setting it up and testing it, what a joy!
It is currently connected to 2 Emotiva XPA3 Gen3 Amps, powering up a 5.1 system that will be expanded to support Atmos when I can dedicate a room for it. In the meantime it is in my living room.

When I ran Audyssey for the first time, it gave me a message that my speakers were out of phase and asked me to switch the wires (or ignore). My speakers are certainly not out of phase, they are properly connected. Anyone has an idea why I would get this message? Not sure if calibration is affected somehow as I chose to ignore and continue.

Thank you in advance!
Reflections off of nearby surfaces seem to be another cause of mistaken phase detection. Center speakers in particular should extend beyond the edge of the shelf they're on and point up (or down) toward the main listening position.
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post #11557 of 14135 Old 09-27-2016, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
As I am sure you know, if you delay your purchase out of fear that something new is going to come along and make you regret your purchase, you will never buy anything new. You might as well get your current system repaired.


Its true - there is always something better just a couple of years away.


If anyone knows of a really good deal on a new 8802a from an authorized dealer feel free to PM me.


I'm not sure why there is a deals section for TVs but not audio equipment.
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post #11558 of 14135 Old 09-27-2016, 03:19 PM
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If anyone knows of a really good deal on a new 8802a from an authorized dealer feel free to PM me.
Contact either user JDSmoothie (AVS Store) or SteveH (Sound Video) for assistance. They're both great to work with and should be able to give you a good deal. Note that SteveH is currently out of town meeting with D&M in Japan to discuss future products, so his responses may be a bit delayed.

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I'm not sure why there is a deals section for TVs but not audio equipment.
Great Found Deals forum.
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post #11559 of 14135 Old 09-27-2016, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurt View Post
Hey guys,

I just received my new Pre and spent the weekend setting it up and testing it, what a joy!
It is currently connected to 2 Emotiva XPA3 Gen3 Amps, powering up a 5.1 system that will be expanded to support Atmos when I can dedicate a room for it. In the meantime it is in my living room.

When I ran Audyssey for the first time, it gave me a message that my speakers were out of phase and asked me to switch the wires (or ignore). My speakers are certainly not out of phase, they are properly connected. Anyone has an idea why I would get this message? Not sure if calibration is affected somehow as I chose to ignore and continue.

Thank you in advance!
If you have REW, you can take a measurement of the left and right speakers. Looking at the phase information will tell you if the speakers are indeed out of phase or not.



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post #11560 of 14135 Old 09-27-2016, 05:34 PM
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How do you hook up the AV8802A for AURO 10.1?

I'm assuming that XLR jacks for Height 1 (pr), and Height 2 (pr) stay the same.
Do you use the XLR jack for Subwoofer 2 (or some other output) for the VOG channel?



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post #11561 of 14135 Old 09-27-2016, 06:55 PM
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I just sold my 7008 and picked up my 8802A today. I did the Audessy calibration and just as with my 7008, I always find the results odd.

First it set my mains to Large and all other speakers small. The crossovers were 40hz. I then used my sound pressure meter to check the levels that the calibration took. The levels were around 70-72db and the sub was hardly audible.

So I used the meter and set everything to 75db, except the sub. I did that by taste. I also set all speakers to small and all crossovers to 80hz. It sounds much better now.

So, two questions.

1. How did Audessy set my speakers the way it did.
2. With the changes that I made, is the room correction still relevant based on the Audessy calibration?

Thanks,
Ken
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post #11562 of 14135 Old 09-27-2016, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken6217 View Post
I just sold my 7008 and picked up my 8802A today. I did the Audessy calibration and just as with my 7008, I always find the results odd.

First it set my mains to Large and all other speakers small. The crossovers were 40hz. I then used my sound pressure meter to check the levels that the calibration took. The levels were around 70-72db and the sub was hardly audible.

So I used the meter and set everything to 75db, except the sub. I did that by taste. I also set all speakers to small and all crossovers to 80hz. It sounds much better now.

So, two questions.

1. How did Audessy set my speakers the way it did.
2. With the changes that I made, is the room correction still relevant based on the Audessy calibration?

Thanks,
Ken
1. How? or Why? There is a +/-2db error rate on the included mic. Did you use the included cardboard mic stand or better yet a mic boom stand? Most find the sub gets set low which can easily be rectified by going to Manual Setup - Test Tones - Subwoofer and raising the level 3-5db or to suit you preference.
2. Yup. The changes you made don't impact the Audyssey EQ.
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post #11563 of 14135 Old 09-27-2016, 07:18 PM
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Thank you for the reply.

I used my camera tripod with the mic faces towards the ceiling. I was more curious if the filters were still there.

Why wouldn't the room correction be altered if I changed the crossovers as well as setting the mains from large to small?
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post #11564 of 14135 Old 09-27-2016, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ken6217 View Post
Thank you for the reply.

I used my camera tripod with the mic faces towards the ceiling. I was more curious if the filters were still there.

Why wouldn't the room correction be altered if I changed the crossovers as well as setting the mains from large to small?
That is just the way it works. Changing speakers from large to small doesn't affect the filters at all. It just re-directs the low frequencies to the subs from the mains. Raising crossover values also has no effect on the filters. No cause for concern.
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post #11565 of 14135 Old 09-27-2016, 08:55 PM
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I have a question regarding the DTS:X upgrade. as I understand it, the upgrade removes the DTS Neo:X processing capability from the AV8802 and adds support for the DTS:X object-based format and the DTS Neural:X up mixer. Does that mean you still get support for front wide channels like you do in DTS Neo:X?





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post #11566 of 14135 Old 09-28-2016, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Well, there is the AudioControl Maestro M9. it's less expensive than the Trinnov and includes Dirac.
I have the M9 now sinds a few days and I have to say, WOW.

My english is not good enough to explain exactly how it sounds but I can say if you want cinematic sound
the M9 does a really good job.

I had the Marantz AV7702, AV8801, the Denon X5200, the Classe Sigma SSP but I have to say the M9 is the first
processor that has real cinematic sound.

I think it's a good processor if you want something better then Denon and Marantz but is less expensive then Datasat and Trinnov. I'm only talking about SQ here not about all other extra's.
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post #11567 of 14135 Old 09-28-2016, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by magicvinny View Post
I have the M9 now sinds a few days and I have to say, WOW.

My english is not good enough to explain exactly how it sounds but I can say if you want cinematic sound
the M9 does a really good job.

I had the Marantz AV7702, AV8801, the Denon X5200, the Classe Sigma SSP but I have to say the M9 is the first
processor that has real cinematic sound.

I think it's a good processor if you want something better then Denon and Marantz but is less expensive then Datasat and Trinnov. I'm only talking about SQ here not about all other extra's.
This is an 8802 thread which you didn't own and shouldn't be dismissed so easily do to trying everything below it
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post #11568 of 14135 Old 09-29-2016, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Peterc613 View Post
Does that mean you still get support for front wide channels like you do in DTS Neo:X?
Hi Peter,

You asked if Neural:X can drive the Audyssey wide channels if present.
The answer is yes but with a bit of trickery.

Recall that the AAV8802(a) cannot drive more than eleven non-subwoofer
channels simultaneously. Further, the Neural:X upmixer seems to
prioritize the selection of all other available channels over the wides.

The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts. Just kidding.
The trick is to temporarily disable a pair of channels for which you'd
rather substitue the wides. I usually disable either the surround rears
or the rear heights when listening to music. For movies, I pretty much
stick with 7.1.4.

You can disable a pair of channels by going into the Audyssey Setup =>
Manual Settings => Speaker Config and temporarily change a channel pair
to None. I might not have this menu path quite right, please forgive.

Your Audyssey calibration won't be lost. You can easily reenable by
visiting the same menu and switching back to Small (or Large if that
works for you, mine is not so well endowed). I hope this helps.
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post #11569 of 14135 Old 09-29-2016, 10:52 PM
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Brand new 8802a owner here and all I can say is wow !! This thing sounds smooth!!! Quick question and I had the same problem with my mkii . Does anyone have problems with Comcast cable boxes and HDMI . My HDMI seems to keep cutting out and I have changed cables and boxes . Could it be a voltage issue ?
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post #11570 of 14135 Old 09-29-2016, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nesto719 View Post
Brand new 8802a owner here and all I can say is wow !! This thing sounds smooth!!! Quick question and I had the same problem with my mkii . Does anyone have problems with Comcast cable boxes and HDMI . My HDMI seems to keep cutting out and I have changed cables and boxes . Could it be a voltage issue ?
Audio or video related? To minimize HDMI handshake issues from a cable/sat box, it's best to power on the devices in a specific order, most often: TV, pause 5 seconds, AVP, pause 5 seconds, source device.

Otherwise, if audio related, try connecting an optical cable from the cable box to the AVP and set INPUT MODE for that source (eg. CBL/SAT) to "Digital". If video related, also switch the HDMI cable from the cable box directly to the TV.
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post #11571 of 14135 Old 09-29-2016, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterc613 View Post
I have a question regarding the DTS:X upgrade. as I understand it, the upgrade removes the DTS Neo:X processing capability from the AV8802 and adds support for the DTS:X object-based format and the DTS Neural:X up mixer. Does that mean you still get support for front wide channels like you do in DTS Neo:X?
Correct. On the 2015 and earlier higher level D+M models, Front Wide speaker capability still remains, regardless of the update. However, this functionality has been removed on the new 2016 models, and likely on the replacement AV8803 (ETA Jan 2018).
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post #11572 of 14135 Old 09-30-2016, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeathersMcGraw View Post
Hi Peter,

You asked if Neural:X can drive the Audyssey wide channels if present.
The answer is yes but with a bit of trickery.

Recall that the AAV8802(a) cannot drive more than eleven non-subwoofer
channels simultaneously. Further, the Neural:X upmixer seems to
prioritize the selection of all other available channels over the wides
.

The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts. Just kidding.
The trick is to temporarily disable a pair of channels for which you'd
rather substitue the wides. I usually disable either the surround rears
or the rear heights when listening to music. For movies, I pretty much
stick with 7.1.4.

Are you saying that a stock AV8802A with DTS Neo:X (no DTS upgrade) in 9.1.2 will send all the encoded wide information to the wide speakers,

(and)

that an updated AV8802A with DTS Neural:X in 9.1.2 will divert the encoded wide information to other channels, leaving very little for the wide speakers?


---------------------------------------------


Also, how do you hook up the AV8802A for AURO 10.1?

I'm assuming that XLR jacks for Height 1 (pr), and Height 2 (pr) stay the same.
Do you use the XLR jack for Subwoofer 2 (or some other output) for the VOG channel?
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post #11573 of 14135 Old 09-30-2016, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterc613 View Post
Are you saying that a stock AV8802A with DTS Neo:X (no DTS upgrade) in 9.1.2 will send all the encoded wide information to the wide speakers,

(and)

that an updated AV8802A with DTS Neural:X in 9.1.2 will divert the encoded wide information to other channels, leaving very little for the wide speakers?


---------------------------------------------


Also, how do you hook up the AV8802A for AURO 10.1?

I'm assuming that XLR jacks for Height 1 (pr), and Height 2 (pr) stay the same.
Do you use the XLR jack for Subwoofer 2 (or some other output) for the VOG channel?

1. No, rather that post was in reference to having 13 speakers connected to the AVP. With only 11 speakers connected, the Front Wide speakers will always get audio (except when using the Dolby Surround upmixer, aka DSU).
2. RCA or XLR sub pre-out 2 is used for the "Top Surround/VOG" speaker.
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post #11574 of 14135 Old 09-30-2016, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nesto719 View Post
Brand new 8802a owner here and all I can say is wow !! This thing sounds smooth!!! Quick question and I had the same problem with my mkii . Does anyone have problems with Comcast cable boxes and HDMI . My HDMI seems to keep cutting out and I have changed cables and boxes . Could it be a voltage issue ?
Welcome to the lodge I know you did your due diligence on your decision and now time to get down to whats important and that's music and movies. Just wait till you get a 100 hrs plus on it and watch it shine

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Audio or video related? To minimize HDMI handshake issues from a cable/sat box, it's best to power on the devices in a specific order, most often: TV, pause 5 seconds, AVP, pause 5 seconds, source device.

Otherwise, if audio related, try connecting an optical cable from the cable box to the AVP and set INPUT MODE for that source (eg. CBL/SAT) to "Digital". If video related, also switch the HDMI cable from the cable box directly to the TV.
I agree 100% on optical from the cables box, I'm a Comcast user as well and run hdmi direct to the display, I have no time for all the havoc cable boxes can introduce to an otherwise fine setup
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post #11575 of 14135 Old 09-30-2016, 06:04 AM
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I'm in Japan for a D&M factory visit where the 8802A's are built. There are a "mere" 80 engineers at this production facility. I was shocked to learn that they have well over 200 engineers company wide! Having that beautiful GUI takes a lot of talent and thousands of man hours. To put this in comparison, B&K when they were in business use to have 2 engineers (Ray and Ed). Krell had 4 engineers.

I got to see the AV8802A being produced which was very cool. When I get back, I will start thread about the D&M factory tour. I got a lot of pictures. I was able to visit with the head of the QC, production, AV8802A engineering, the plant manager etc. I came away with a much clearer ideal as to why the 8802A sounds sooooooooooo good. And for that matter, why D&M is growing on the backs of Onkyo and others (my words not theirs). D&M has a team of audiophile and videophile engineers that literally focus on making the product sound and look better. Over the years, I've had a chance to go to a lot of factories and met the designers. Like other great audio companies, D&M's team is talented, driven, and passionate to make a great product that sounds exceptional. IMHO, that's a differentiator to other higher volume and more competitively priced (economy of scale) brands that I also carry.

In summary, the fantastic sounding 8802A and 7702mkii prepro unit didn't happen by accident.

For fun, I attached a couple of pictures. Forgive the small D&M ESD coat. My booties didn't fit over my size 13 shoes either. The 1st picture is a batch of 8802A's all boxed up and ready to ship. The 2nd picture are the guys who I spent the day with. It was an enlightening and worthwhile trip.
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post #11576 of 14135 Old 09-30-2016, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
I'm in Japan for a D&M factory visit where the 8802A's are built. There are a "mere" 80 engineers at this production facility. I was shocked to learn that they have well over 200 engineers company wide! Having that beautiful GUI takes a lot of talent and thousands of man hours. To put this in comparison, B&K when they were in business use to have 2 engineers (Ray and Ed). Krell had 4 engineers.



I got to see the AV8802A being produced which was very cool. When I get back, I will start thread about the D&M factory tour. I got a lot of pictures. I was able to visit with the head of the QC, production, AV8802A engineering, the plant manager etc. I came away with a much clearer ideal as to why the 8802A sounds sooooooooooo good. And for that matter, why D&M is growing on the backs of Onkyo and others (my words not theirs). D&M has a team of audiophile and videophile engineers that literally focus on making the product sound and look better. Over the years, I've had a chance to go to a lot of factories and met the designers. Like other great audio companies, D&M's team is talented, driven, and passionate to make a great product that sounds exceptional. IMHO, that's a differentiator to other higher volume and more competitively priced (economy of scale) brands that I also carry.



In summary, this fantastic sounding 8802A and 7702mkii prepro unit didn't happen by accident.



For fun, I attached a couple of pictures. Forgive the small D&M ESD coat. My booties didn't fit over my size 13 shoes either. The 1st picture is a batch of 8802A's all boxed up and ready to ship. The 2nd picture is the guys who I spent the day with. It was an enlightening and worthwhile trip.


Looks good Steve, when you get back can you provide us a link in this thread to your D&M thread.
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post #11577 of 14135 Old 09-30-2016, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Franin View Post
Looks good Steve, when you get back can you provide us a link in this thread to your D&M thread.
I will indeed. I made the mistake of taking a nap after a long day of walking visiting Kyoto. Now I am wide awake. I am going to start writing it up in Word now. If you see it today, I'm still unable to sleep.
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post #11578 of 14135 Old 09-30-2016, 08:32 AM
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Welcome to the lodge I know you did your due diligence on your decision and now time to get down to whats important and that's music and movies. Just wait till you get a 100 hrs plus on it and watch it shine



I agree 100% on optical from the cables box, I'm a Comcast user as well and run hdmi direct to the display, I have no time for all the havoc cable boxes can introduce to an otherwise fine setup
By running the optical from the cable box and HDMI straight to the tv will I still be able to have the sound come thru the tv speakers ,for those times when I don't want to have the 8802 on?
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post #11579 of 14135 Old 09-30-2016, 09:15 AM
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Are you saying that a stock AV8802A with DTS Neo:X (no DTS upgrade) in 9.1.2 will
send all the encoded wide information to the wide speakers,
That's my recollection but it has been some time since I upgraded to the DTS enabled firmware versions. It's worth
mentioning that there is no encoding of wide channels in the source material (ignoring object based channels for the
moment). It is Audyssey or the upmixing decoders that might provide the ability to synthesize an audio stream being
sent to the wide channels. For example, a 7.1 source has LCR, surround, surround back and LFE discrete channels
in the source's encoded audio stream.

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Originally Posted by Peterc613 View Post
(and) that an updated AV8802A with DTS Neural:X in 9.1.2 will divert the encoded wide information to other channels,
leaving very little for the wide speakers?
Because there are no wide channels in the encoded audio source, the AV8802 is not diverting to other channels. Instead,
I tend to think of it as choosing which of the at most eleven channels to drive. Then, for discrete channels encoded into
the audio source material, send those discrete channels to the correct output channel (surround left input to surround left
output, center input to center output, etc.). For output channels that it intends to drive for which there is no corresponding
discrete channel in the encoded audio source, the upmixer must then synthesize the signals that it will send to those output
channels.

For a 5.1 or 7.1 encoded source when we examine the left wide channel for example, I'm guessing that the transfer function
being driven by a DSP is heavily influenced by the left front and left surround discrete channels encoded in the 5.1 or 7.1
source. Perhaps some of the other channels present in the source material also factor into the derivation of the synthesized
left wide output signal, but likely are less influential. I don't know and is likely part of the proprietary secret sauce embodied
in the different brands of upmixers.

When you think about a 2.0 stereo source, every output channel except the left front and right front is synthesized by the
upmixer. The center, if being driven, is probably largely a difference calculation but is perhaps more sophisticated. The
Multi Channel Stereo sound mode is probably the least sophisticated among the choices. I don't intend to knock that
choice as I've used it to good effect by heavily attenuating channels other than left and right front via the Options menu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterc613 View Post
Also, how do you hook up the AV8802A for AURO 10.1?

I'm assuming that XLR jacks for Height 1 (pr), and Height 2 (pr) stay the same. Do you use the XLR jack for Subwoofer 2
(or some other output) for the VOG channel?
Yes, as JD pointed out, the Subw2 output (whether RCA or XLR) is repurposed to drive the amplifier channel that drives the
VOG speaker. I have Auro 3D licensed but don't have a VOG speaker. So, not able to share any experience there. I'm
doing what some call the universal overhead format, which is front and rear heights. Though, my rear heights are perhaps
a bit closer to a top rear position.
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post #11580 of 14135 Old 09-30-2016, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
I'm in Japan for a D&M factory visit where the 8802A's are built. There are a "mere" 80 engineers at this production facility. I was shocked to learn that they have well over 200 engineers company wide! Having that beautiful GUI takes a lot of talent and thousands of man hours. To put this in comparison, B&K when they were in business use to have 2 engineers (Ray and Ed). Krell had 4 engineers.

I got to see the AV8802A being produced which was very cool. When I get back, I will start thread about the D&M factory tour. I got a lot of pictures. I was able to visit with the head of the QC, production, AV8802A engineering, the plant manager etc. I came away with a much clearer ideal as to why the 8802A sounds sooooooooooo good. And for that matter, why D&M is growing on the backs of Onkyo and others (my words not theirs). D&M has a team of audiophile and videophile engineers that literally focus on making the product sound and look better. Over the years, I've had a chance to go to a lot of factories and met the designers. Like other great audio companies, D&M's team is talented, driven, and passionate to make a great product that sounds exceptional. IMHO, that's a differentiator to other higher volume and more competitively priced (economy of scale) brands that I also carry.

In summary, the fantastic sounding 8802A and 7702mkii prepro unit didn't happen by accident.

For fun, I attached a couple of pictures. Forgive the small D&M ESD coat. My booties didn't fit over my size 13 shoes either. The 1st picture is a batch of 8802A's all boxed up and ready to ship. The 2nd picture are the guys who I spent the day with. It was an enlightening and worthwhile trip.

Man that would have been fun to tag along on. Nice to see Paul and Kevin there in the trenches with you. Hope it was a great trip!
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