Marantz AV8802 13.2 XLR processor - HDMI 2.0 ISF - Wifi + Bluetooth details - Page 16 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #451 of 1718 Old 09-01-2014, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
This is the wrong thread for discussing the advantages of XLR vs RCA and the meaning of "True Balanced". Both topics inevitably degenerate into flamewars and are not unique to the 8802. If you want to use XLR connections, do so. They're intended to reduce noise-pickup in an electrically noisy environment, which does not apply in most home environments. They do have the advantage of providing a secure, latching connection.
by the meaning of "true balanced"...I assume you mean fully balanced?

if so...there is a definition for what that means that is pretty black and white

OTOH...I dont think any SSP that meets that definition is under $6-7K..in fact come to think of it I cant think of anything under $8K that is fully balaced

The other units have what is basically XLR connectors

I agree with you that the connections are more secure...regardless of whether they are fully balanced

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post #452 of 1718 Old 09-01-2014, 04:26 PM
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Oops, Wrong thread.

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post #453 of 1718 Old 09-01-2014, 04:35 PM
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The Marantz 8802 with XLR connections is simply for better looks. ...For people who like to connect their amps with more fancy connectors, or feel more secure with the lock-on types, or people who have long distances between the 8802 and their amps (15 meters or so).

Sound wise they are no better than RCA type connectors. And not only that, but from lab tests they usually measured worst in all audio parameters. Just check the different results between RCA and XLR measurements from all them SSP & amps reviews of similar 8802 SSPs and separate amps with them XLR connection jacks.
I can give you several links but anyone can find them easily.

* The differences is not night and day, but still, the RCA connections usually offer better performance (Frequency Response, THD+N, Crosstalk, and Signal-to-noise Ratio with "A" weighting).

With XLR you'll have more gain (roughly 6dB), but you can easily adjust/compensate for that by simply raising the master volume level when using the RCA connections.

And true, for fully balanced operation (in and out), you need to spend roughly $7,500 for the SSP and same for a matching multichannel amp. And then you also want your sources fully balanced (in & out) as well.

Yeah, you can pay less, and you'll get what you pay for. ...Like the matching Cary Audio Design Cinema 12 Surround Processor with its matching Model 7.125 multichannel amplifier for eight grands, but you still need two more stereo amps, it is extremely restricted on the number of HDMI connections (3 In, 1 Out), the REQ is very buggy (Cary doesn't recommend using it), it has no Dolby Atmos of course, and still the RCA connections measure better than the XLR ones.

If you spend say twenty grands, then you might improve the measurements by a fraction less than one percent. And there is no way that you can hear it.

So, for people who choose the 8802 over the 7702, now you know what those XLR connections truly (fully) mean. ...Nothing, and even less performance (measurements) over the RCA connections.

Marantz AV8802 13.2 XLR processor, HDMI 2.0, ISF, Wifi, tra-la-la...

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post #454 of 1718 Old 09-02-2014, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
This is the wrong thread for discussing the advantages of XLR vs RCA and the meaning of "True Balanced". Both topics inevitably degenerate into flamewars and are not unique to the 8802. If you want to use XLR connections, do so. They're intended to reduce noise-pickup in an electrically noisy environment, which does not apply in most home environments. They do have the advantage of providing a secure, latching connection.
If you have a smart meter, your electricity is extremely noisy. Most people got that nowadays. Measure it yourself using http://www.trifield.com/content/power-line-meter/
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post #455 of 1718 Old 09-02-2014, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
The Marantz 8802 with XLR connections is simply for better looks. ...For people who like to connect their amps with more fancy connectors, or feel more secure with the lock-on types, or people who have long distances between the 8802 and their amps (15 meters or so).
Or for connecting to active speakers with XLR inputs, such as the Emotiva Stealth. The Airmotiv can be connected both ways.

BTW, I did consider using the Stealth for my HT. I love the sound of that tweeter. In the end, the constant directivity of the SEOS DIY was more appealing, although I never heard one yet. Gotta finish my center ASAP, so I can finally hear it. Anyway, way off topic!

Building a HT with 7.2.4 layout and ◤SEOS-24◥ LCR.
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post #456 of 1718 Old 09-02-2014, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post
Or for connecting to active speakers with XLR inputs, such as the Emotiva Stealth. The Airmotiv can be connected both ways.

BTW, I did consider using the Stealth for my HT. I love the sound of that tweeter. In the end, the constant directivity of the SEOS DIY was more appealing, although I never heard one yet. Gotta finish my center ASAP, so I can finally hear it. Anyway, way off topic!
Connect thirteen powered active speakers plus two subwoofers to the Marantz AV8802 SSP's XLR connectors and you also need fifteen AC power chords. ...You'd better have plenty of AC outlets, all around, and up there too, on your ceiling.
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post #457 of 1718 Old 09-02-2014, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by coli View Post
If you have a smart meter, your electricity is extremely noisy. Most people got that nowadays. Measure it yourself using http://www.trifield.com/content/power-line-meter/
If you are purchasing quality audio and video equipment then the power supplies in these components will filter and smooth out that 'noisy' AC for the most part anyway. Plus your electricity from your outlet shouldn't be in the audio signal chain anyway. If it is then there is a problem. Here is a good article over on Audioholics that was written by people at Blue Jeans Cable that can explain it way better than I can. http://www.audioholics.com/audio-vid...s/power-cables

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post #458 of 1718 Old 09-03-2014, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by esappy View Post
If you are purchasing quality audio and video equipment then the power supplies in these components will filter and smooth out that 'noisy' AC for the most part anyway. Plus your electricity from your outlet shouldn't be in the audio signal chain anyway. If it is then there is a problem. Here is a good article over on Audioholics that was written by people at Blue Jeans Cable that can explain it way better than I can. http://www.audioholics.com/audio-vid...s/power-cables
Nope they don't, someone used a scope and posted the pics of before and after on polk's forums. Majority of the noise pass right through. Also, certain type of noise removing equipment actually destroys bass out of the speakers, still couldn't figure that one out myself...
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post #459 of 1718 Old 09-03-2014, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coli View Post
Nope they don't, someone used a scope and posted the pics of before and after on polk's forums. Majority of the noise pass right through. Also, certain type of noise removing equipment actually destroys bass out of the speakers, still couldn't figure that one out myself...

Not sure which ones you are referring to, but if you current limit (even for a short duration), then that would do the trick.


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post #460 of 1718 Old 09-04-2014, 04:25 PM
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The North American AV7702 Owner's Manual is now available for downloading and online browsing:

http://manuals.marantz.com/AV7702/NA/EN

No 8802 manual yet, though.

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post #461 of 1718 Old 09-04-2014, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
The North American AV7702 Owner's Manual is now available for downloading and online browsing:

http://manuals.marantz.com/AV7702/NA/EN

No 8802 manual yet, though.
Cool, the baby which I'm aiming to so far. ...Or the next one; the 7703.
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post #462 of 1718 Old 09-04-2014, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
The Marantz 8802 with XLR connections is simply for better looks. ...For people who like to connect their amps with more fancy connectors, or feel more secure with the lock-on types, or people who have long distances between the 8802 and their amps (15 meters or so).

Sound wise they are no better than RCA type connectors. And not only that, but from lab tests they usually measured worst in all audio parameters. Just check the different results between RCA and XLR measurements from all them SSP & amps reviews of similar 8802 SSPs and separate amps with them XLR connection jacks.
I can give you several links but anyone can find them easily.

* The differences is not night and day, but still, the RCA connections usually offer better performance (Frequency Response, THD+N, Crosstalk, and Signal-to-noise Ratio with "A" weighting).

With XLR you'll have more gain (roughly 6dB), but you can easily adjust/compensate for that by simply raising the master volume level when using the RCA connections.

And true, for fully balanced operation (in and out), you need to spend roughly $7,500 for the SSP and same for a matching multichannel amp. And then you also want your sources fully balanced (in & out) as well.

Yeah, you can pay less, and you'll get what you pay for. ...Like the matching Cary Audio Design Cinema 12 Surround Processor with its matching Model 7.125 multichannel amplifier for eight grands, but you still need two more stereo amps, it is extremely restricted on the number of HDMI connections (3 In, 1 Out), the REQ is very buggy (Cary doesn't recommend using it), it has no Dolby Atmos of course, and still the RCA connections measure better than the XLR ones.

If you spend say twenty grands, then you might improve the measurements by a fraction less than one percent. And there is no way that you can hear it.

So, for people who choose the 8802 over the 7702, now you know what those XLR connections truly (fully) mean. ...Nothing, and even less performance (measurements) over the RCA connections.

Marantz AV8802 13.2 XLR processor, HDMI 2.0, ISF, Wifi, tra-la-la...
interesting

the statement I bolded is subjective thinking on your part
opinions vary widely on the merit of higher end components...as I am sure you know

Personally.....my "non-fully" balanced XLR connections quieted a "hum" I had when I used RCA's

I have noticed absolutely no performance difference between the RCA and XLR's other than ridding my system of that occasional humming

But...for me it was worth it just for that

Warren

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post #463 of 1718 Old 09-04-2014, 05:06 PM
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So what are the main differences between the 7702 and 8802. From what I can see the AV8802 can do 13.2 ( I assume 9.1.4) where the 7702 can do 11.2 (I assume 7.1.4). Are there any other known differences? I have the av8801 and contemplating my next move.
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post #464 of 1718 Old 09-04-2014, 05:18 PM
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Which one you feel to get,...or wait for the 2nd generation?

* Wait @ least for the 8802 manual. You'll know more...
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post #465 of 1718 Old 09-04-2014, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
Personally.....my "non-fully" balanced XLR connections quieted a "hum" I had when I used RCA's

I have noticed absolutely no performance difference between the RCA and XLR's other than ridding my system of that occasional humming

But...for me it was worth it just for that

Warren
Cool Warren.
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post #466 of 1718 Old 09-04-2014, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
So what are the main differences between the 7702 and 8802. From what I can see the AV8802 can do 13.2 ( I assume 9.1.4) where the 7702 can do 11.2 (I assume 7.1.4). Are there any other known differences? I have the av8801 and contemplating my next move.
Both are limited to 11.2 (or 7.2.4) with the 8802 having better components, 32 bit DAC, and mfr'd in Japan vice China for the 7702.

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post #467 of 1718 Old 09-04-2014, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Cool Warren.

sure thing

and thanks for agreeing with me about your subjective viewpoint on high end pieces.....



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post #468 of 1718 Old 09-04-2014, 06:48 PM
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...and thanks for agreeing with me about your subjective viewpoint on high end pieces.....

Warren
Yes, objectively I agreed.
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Both are limited to 11.2 (or 7.2.4) with the 8802 having better components, 32 bit DAC, and mfr'd in Japan vice China for the 7702.
and again....please explain the difference this makes with statistical points?

on another note I cant imagine it will be too much longer until all the Asians manufacturer all their units in China...they are already 95% there

I even see shared factories being the case



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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Yes, objectively I agreed.
there was nothing objective about it...its was purely subjective

thanks again

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post #471 of 1718 Old 09-04-2014, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
and again....please explain the difference this makes with statistical points?

on another note I cant imagine it will be too much longer until all the Asians manufacturer all their units in China...they are already 95% there

I even see shared factories being the case



Warren
Some simply prefer mfr'd in Japan.
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post #472 of 1718 Old 09-04-2014, 09:11 PM
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Onkyo, where is it made?
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Malaysia

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post #474 of 1718 Old 09-04-2014, 11:38 PM
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They had some pretty rough time with the weather not that long ago. ...My heart goes to all who lost everything, even their life, and the life of their loved ones. ...Plus all the passengers of that plane.

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post #475 of 1718 Old 09-04-2014, 11:45 PM
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...And because this thread is about a Marantz product from the D&M Holdings Inc (D+M Group):
http://www.strata-gee.com/2014/09/04...out-financing/

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Both are limited to 11.2 (or 7.2.4) with the 8802 having better components, 32 bit DAC, and mfr'd in Japan vice China for the 7702.
Any idea of what those better bits are ?
I just want to see what the extra $$ pays for...
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post #477 of 1718 Old 09-05-2014, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
The North American AV7702 Owner's Manual is now available for downloading and online browsing:

http://manuals.marantz.com/AV7702/NA/EN

No 8802 manual yet, though.

Just had a quick peek:
DTS-Neo X is limited to 9 channels? (page 10)
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post #478 of 1718 Old 09-05-2014, 09:28 AM
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Any idea of what those better bits are ?
I just want to see what the extra $$ pays for...
From what I'm reading, unless the upper tier model has true 9.1.4 rendering there doesn't seem to be a real justification for the price increase or enough of a reason to move up to that model. 32 bit DAC's? You aren't going to hear the difference because you must have ultra-quiet lab grade equipment from end to end. This ain't it.

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post #479 of 1718 Old 09-05-2014, 09:42 AM
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Most consumers don't want to make holes in the ceiling. So the next few years will be interesting, seeing how creative speaker manufacturers can be in creating virtual height speakers.
Sdurani- I respectfully disagree. If you look into most home systems or whole house systems, installers often put speakers in the ceiling. That may not be the case for a home theater room, but then again theater rooms were not designed to have in-celing speakers unless there was no other choice. I don't think it's that tough of a sell to tell someone that going with in-celing speakers will allow you to achieve an atoms setup. That being said, if you have a fancy ceiling in your theater room that resembles space or has intricate wood work you might grumble some.

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post #480 of 1718 Old 09-05-2014, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post
Just had a quick peek:
DTS-Neo X is limited to 9 channels? (page 10)
I think it's just confusion on the part of the manual's author or translator (aka "Denon-speak" which needs to be translated to something understandable). In many of the manual's speaker configuration descriptions, the configurations are described in terms of the number of speakers that are at ear height, and they don't count the overhead speakers. Neo:X supports two overhead speakers: the ones called "Front Height". See the picture in the right-hand colume on page 38 of the 7702's manual. The layout is called 9.1 but it shows the full 11.1 configuration, which Dolby wants you to call "9.1.2". See also page 142, where it explicitly says "a maximum of 11.1-channel surround sound." Page 177 lists the possible Neo:X speaker settings, and page 296 shows exactly which channels can be activated for each of the sound processing options.

Selden

Marantz SR7009+MM9000/Atmos 7.1.4 (FH+TM:DefTech PM1000)/LCR+TM amped
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