Pioneer SC LX88 - 9.2 ch, Dolby Amos, HDMI 2.0 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 432 Old 06-16-2014, 05:26 AM - Thread Starter
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2014 Pioneer SC LX88 - 9.2 ch, Dolby Atmos, HDMI 2.0, BT, USB-DAC

Would this be the top of line 2014 Pioneer Elite AVR (SC LX88-K)? This is the European version.

http://www.supersonido.es/productos/documentos/Documento4447.pdf

Basic description at Pioneer is "9.2-Channel AV receiver with Class D Amplification, Air Studios certification, HDMI 2.0, USB-DAC, 4K Upscaling/Pass Through, Dolby Atmos, Built-in Bluetooth and AVNavigator "

http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/42/98/405/SC-LX88-K/page.html

After having a Pioneer Elite 49TXi for 10 years I don't have any qualms about getting another Pioneer (unless it seems they are totally exiting the home audio business and I'd have no support for a receiver purchase).
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Last edited by DoDaLeCa; 06-16-2014 at 05:33 AM. Reason: Corrected Title Detail
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post #2 of 432 Old 06-16-2014, 06:51 AM
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Nice.
I'm a big fan of Pio AVRs.
Looks like they also made some changes to MCACC with a 4 band sub EQ.
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post #3 of 432 Old 06-16-2014, 11:01 AM
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Looks like some "premature leakage"

That link's been pulled from Pioneer's site. I suspect this was not to be officially announced yet. For some reason, I had it in my head that there might be an 11 channel version in the works but I could easily be wrong

wait & see

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post #4 of 432 Old 06-16-2014, 11:25 AM
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Time to upgrade again!

Dolby Atmos, built-in bluetooth, sub EQ with true two separate sub-outs (and sub calibration calculations)

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post #5 of 432 Old 06-16-2014, 12:13 PM
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Looks nice. This appears to be a contender to the Denon X4100 for my home theater. Can't wait to compare the 2's features.
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post #6 of 432 Old 06-16-2014, 12:50 PM
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Are the Denon x100 series will have Atmos too?

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post #7 of 432 Old 06-16-2014, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post
Looks like some "premature leakage"
Between this and the Denon/Marantz leak, I hope anyone that thought consumer Atmos was years away has disabused themselves of that notion. How far behind can the Blu-rays be?

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post #8 of 432 Old 06-16-2014, 03:15 PM
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Don't forget Onkyo too!

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post #9 of 432 Old 06-16-2014, 03:26 PM
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Has Onkyo announced object-aware receivers? (or has info leaked)

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post #10 of 432 Old 06-16-2014, 03:31 PM
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Not officially, but a similar leak (on their web page for several minutes then went away).

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post #11 of 432 Old 06-16-2014, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Time to upgrade again!

Dolby Atmos, built-in bluetooth, sub EQ with true two separate sub-outs (and sub calibration calculations)
The built-in bluetooth doesn't seem to be in the North American version.

Independent subwoofer outputs will be in the SC-85,87,89. Not the 81 or 82.

At a glance, the SC-85 looks like the sweet spot, with the higher models not adding that much except marginally more power.

SC-87 adds phono input.

SC-89 adds HDbaseT and usb dac input.

The SC-89 looks the same as the SC-LX88 except it has HDbaseT out, and lacks multi-channel input and needs dongle for bluetooth.

Last edited by Enitime; 06-16-2014 at 08:02 PM.
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post #12 of 432 Old 06-16-2014, 07:43 PM
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No BT for NA version? Sigh

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post #13 of 432 Old 06-16-2014, 10:01 PM
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No BT for NA version? Sigh
$65 dongle, wouldn't think it was a dealbreaker.
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post #14 of 432 Old 06-16-2014, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Are the Denon x100 series will have Atmos too?
Yes.

Denon AVR-X7200W 9.2/13.2ch 2014/2015 Receiver Details-
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post #15 of 432 Old 06-17-2014, 02:57 AM
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I guess it's OK to talk about Atmos now
I was sworn to secrecy

If the SC-89 is to be the equal to the LX88 and not another yet-to-be-leaked Euro model, the only thing that I wasn't expecting is staying at 9 ch for the top model. Based on a conversation I had months ago, I "thought" it was going to be 11 ch but I guess my assumption or reading between the lines was not correct.

What I didn't know was similar leaks on Denon/Marantz. Glad someone posted links.

It's real and coming soon to a "retailer" near you

Looks like Emotiva XMC-1 fans are going to have to wait longer or do without

Go Pioneer!
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Last edited by ss9001; 06-17-2014 at 03:01 AM.
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post #16 of 432 Old 06-17-2014, 03:16 AM
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Would like to know what the 3 Atmos speaker set ups are.
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post #17 of 432 Old 06-17-2014, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
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$65 dongle, wouldn't think it was a dealbreaker.
It's not the price per se, but having a dongle protruding is just annoying iMhO.

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post #18 of 432 Old 06-17-2014, 06:34 AM
 
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How is atmos going to work with receivers? How many speakers/ what locations of speakers? Is it a codec like TrueHD or DTS? If so, what type of content will give dolby atmos? Or are the receivers just going to decode true hd/ dts into atmos on their own?
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post #19 of 432 Old 06-17-2014, 06:36 AM
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It does also looks like there is no THX certification any more by the way.

TV: Panasonic TX-P50VT30E
Audio | Receiver: Pioneer VSX-AX2AS-S (Pioneer Elite VSX-82TXS) | Speakers: 2x KEF Q900 for Fronts | 2x KEF Q700 for Rears
Audio/Video Sources | Panasonic DMP-BDT 310 | Pioneer PL-510 | HTPC using Intel i3-3220 16GB XBMC on Ubuntu 13.10
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post #20 of 432 Old 06-17-2014, 06:44 AM
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Sounds promising wonder how many months before we can actually get the new units and the fact our distributer is completely out of the current models.
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post #21 of 432 Old 06-17-2014, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post
How is atmos going to work with receivers?
Most movies are mixed by assigning pieces of sound (dialogue, music, effects) to specific channels. Atmos adds the ability to assign pieces of sound to X,Y,Z coordinates in 3D space.

During playback, those pieces of sound (objects) are rendered to those locations, either by sending those sounds to a speaker at that location or using nearby speakers to create a phantom image at that location (if there is no speaker there).

Pretty straightforward. Nothing outside the scope of modern AV receivers.

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Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post
How many speakers/ what locations of speakers?
Up to you. It could be something simple, like a 2-speaker set-up with a couple of height speakers above.

To make things easier for manufacturers to roll out initial Atmos products, the speaker count will probably be kept to whatever number current receivers can handle (11?), which will likely mean up to 7 mains plus up to 4 heights.

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Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post
Is it a codec like TrueHD or DTS?
No, those are data compression codecs that either losslessly pack the data or lossily compress the data to take up less space/bandwidth. By comparison, Atmos is an object-based mixing and rendering codec.

However, sound is sound, so to take up less space the objects and channels of an Atmos soundtrack can be packed using TrueHD or compressed using DD or DD+.

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Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post
If so, what type of content will give dolby atmos?
Soundtracks that are mixed in Dolby Atmos (i.e., has sound in channels AND sounds with X,Y,Z coordinates in space).

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post
Or are the receivers just going to decode true hd/ dts into atmos on their own?
No such thing. A receiver can't take a current channel-based soundtrack and create objects.

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post #22 of 432 Old 06-17-2014, 10:30 AM
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Dolby Atmos: Okay, so instead of the receiver "converting" 5.1 or 7.1 to 9.1, presumably the Dolby Atmos encoding on software (of which NONE exists today) will do it instead. I would rather have Atmos do this than using any of the digital enhancement modes to accomplish the spread, but it still wouldn't sound any different than if discrete 9.1 was available on the software.

(I really hope this isn't total b.s. and "home" Dolby Atmos isn't simply converting a 5.1 or 7.1 mix to 9.1 in the receiver, because that is NOT what Atmos is supposed to be about.)

What should really happen is that there would be some new output to drive additional channels. There would be some kind of digital output to the amps (or a network signal) so that the amps could be daisy chained and so the wire wouldn't get bigger if you ran more channels and then you could run up to the full 64 channels that Dolby Atmos provides, including the overhead channels.

Not that I would ever install any of this in my apartment.

I think that right now, in terms of the home, Dolby Atmos is more marketing hype than any kind of reality.
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post #23 of 432 Old 06-17-2014, 10:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Most movies are mixed by assigning pieces of sound (dialogue, music, effects) to specific channels. Atmos adds the ability to assign pieces of sound to X,Y,Z coordinates in 3D space.

During playback, those pieces of sound (objects) are rendered to those locations, either by sending those sounds to a speaker at that location or using nearby speakers to create a phantom image at that location (if there is no speaker there).

Pretty straightforward. Nothing outside the scope of modern AV receivers.

Up to you. It could be something simple, like a 2-speaker set-up with a couple of height speakers above.

To make things easier for manufacturers to roll out initial Atmos products, the speaker count will probably be kept to whatever number current receivers can handle (11?), which will likely mean up to 7 mains plus up to 4 heights.

No, those are data compression codecs that either losslessly pack the data or lossily compress the data to take up less space/bandwidth. By comparison, Atmos is an object-based mixing and rendering codec.

However, sound is sound, so to take up less space the objects and channels of an Atmos soundtrack can be packed using TrueHD or compressed using DD or DD+.

Soundtracks that are mixed in Dolby Atmos (i.e., has sound in channels AND sounds with X,Y,Z coordinates in space).

No such thing. A receiver can't take a current channel-based soundtrack and create objects.
Thanks. I understand what Dolby Atmos is, but what I was wondering is how the information will be given to the receiver. Will the atmos info be encoded on blu-rays, or external hardware, or software, or what?
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post #24 of 432 Old 06-17-2014, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post
Dolby Atmos: Okay, so instead of the receiver "converting" 5.1 or 7.1 to 9.1, presumably the Dolby Atmos encoding on software (of which NONE exists today) will do it instead. I would rather have Atmos do this than using any of the digital enhancement modes to accomplish the spread, but it still wouldn't sound any different than if discrete 9.1 was available on the software.
Converting or scaling a certain number of channels to a different number of speakers at arbitrary locations something AV receivers have been doing for some time (upmixing and downmixing). The difference with Atmos is that objects are being rendered in 3D space based on where the speakers are located. That sort of location-specific rendering can't be done with discrete 9.1-channel mixes, where sounds are fixed to certain channels.

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Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post
(I really hope this isn't total b.s. and "home" Dolby Atmos isn't simply converting a 5.1 or 7.1 mix to 9.1 in the receiver, because that is NOT what Atmos is supposed to be about.)
That's like hoping TrueHD isn't DD with padding data to make the bitstream appear bigger.

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Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post
What should really happen is that there would be some new output to drive additional channels. There would be some kind of digital output to the amps (or a network signal) so that the amps could be daisy chained and so the wire wouldn't get bigger if you ran more channels and then you could run up to the full 64 channels that Dolby Atmos provides, including the overhead channels.
You're unnecessarily complicating things with a new output and more channels than consumers use. Dolby is using a different approach: create a home version of Atmos that will: a) be easy for manufacturers to roll out and, b) be relatively affordable for consumers.

Sanjay
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post #25 of 432 Old 06-17-2014, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
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I was wondering is how the information will be given to the receiver. Will the atmos info be encoded on blu-rays, or external hardware, or software, or what?
Not sure what you mean by "information".

Receivers can already do speaker distances. Information on speaker angles can either be measured or input by the user. Will be up to each manufacturer to choose their method.

Atmos soundtracks can be delivered the way current soundtracks are. Pack the sound using TrueHD and you can put the soundtrack on Blu-ray. Compress the sound using DD or DD+ and you can stream the soundtrack via Netflix.

It's just sound. Video games have been doing object-based soundtracks for a decade. Just because it's new to movies doesn't mean it's new.

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post #26 of 432 Old 06-17-2014, 03:17 PM
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It's not trolling, it's stating the fact that once again Emotiva is late in the game (That also includes Krell, McIntosh, Cary, etc)

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post #27 of 432 Old 06-17-2014, 03:28 PM
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Agreed!

Back to the topic... I find it strange that THX certification is not shown at all. That will be sad as historically Pioneer was the first receiver manufacturer that had THX certification.

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post #28 of 432 Old 06-17-2014, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
It's not the price per se, but having a dongle protruding is just annoying iMhO.
Maybe I'll be lucky and my BT100 will still work.

Agree on the lack of THX, although in reality how much does the end user gain on that besides the cost involved in licensing?

I'm curious on the virtual speaker function.
Will this be a function of Atmos?

Last edited by bootman_head_fi; 06-17-2014 at 03:47 PM.
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post #29 of 432 Old 06-17-2014, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
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I didn't know he also posted this in those threads at the high end forums.
I'll search for those now....

Please back to talking about THIS model that I'm interested in.
If
I want info on others, I'll just go there.
wow, sensitive

for the record, I happen to be one of the most prolific posters and biggest Pioneer fans in this forum. And the issue of Atmos and Emotiva has been discussed ad nauseum in both Emotiva XMC1 threads! and for your info I am NOT one of big proliferators of Emo-critiques in those 2 threads, not by a long shot. so you can keep your rolleyes. all I was doing is inject a little humor...if you couldn't see that, sorry for you.

but going off on me about something as overblown as this is a waste of your time & mine.

I am sincerely looking forward to what Pioneer brings out this year, you can count on that! I intend on buying the top model when it comes out...to replace an SC-68 I own. You might also find it of note that I also own the $7000 SC-09TX model and was the originator of the Ice amp threads starting with the SC-09. and go back to 2 flagship Elite models before that! So I am a big Pio enthusiast and we are on the same side here.

so discussion can continue on Pioneer, I agree.

Steve
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post #30 of 432 Old 06-17-2014, 03:51 PM
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I to hope that they don't drop THX. I am pissed that they decided to save some money and not pay for the THX ULTRA 2 Mode on the sc-79 and last years model before that. I know there trying to save money but come on if your going to pay for certification why not get all the THX modes.

I have been a pioneer fan since the vsx49txi then the sc-09tx and now the sc-79. I am actually thinking on putting the sc09tx back in and selling the 79.

THX is important to me. I like the sound better when using ultra 2 vs EX.

Also I don't understand if there getting out of AV why make a new reciever?

I don't understand how all those others high end companies like krell and stuff can survive
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