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-   -   Power amp to replace receiver? (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1568842-power-amp-replace-receiver.html)

rumpus2054 06-16-2014 02:02 PM

Power amp to replace receiver?
 
I have 2x Cerwin Vega VE-12 speakers. I sometimes DJ for friends and know I only need about 250-300W max for a session. My Vega's are capable of this, but my receiver is not. It's a Yamaha HTR-6230, and I've abused it, so I'm guessing it doesn't do anywhere near it's rated 100W / ch output.

Is there a cheap power amp of some kind I could hook up to these speakers for traveling DJ gigs? I only do gigs for friends and it's only once in a blue moon, so something cheap but powerful would be nice that I can abuse for these random DJ sessions.

I know my speakers are more for home audio use, but i'm really just looking for an amp that's more volume than quality since it'll be drunk people. As long as it doesn't sound like absolute garbage... I have a DJ mixer / soundcard combo that has XLR outputs.

Any suggestions welcome, and thanks.

BTW, I'd like to keep it as cheap as possible. As stated, I will only use it a few times a year.

fatbottom 06-16-2014 02:08 PM

With 93dB sensivity you don't need much power. 100W will be plenty.

With 1W of power, you'll get 93dB from the speakers. That's loud already.

rumpus2054 06-16-2014 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatbottom (Post 25016226)
With 93dB sensivity you don't need much power. 100W will be plenty.

With 1W of power, you'll get 93dB from the speakers. That's loud already.


Okay let me put it another way... I can hear the music distort when the speakers aren't even cranked very loud. This is a low end receiver, and I believe it isn't even pushing anywhere near 100W. I need it to at least go louder before it completely distorts. I'm under the impression a power amp will let it do just that - go louder albeit not at the greatest quality, but without distorting until a much higher volume.

Thanks for the reply.

FMW 06-16-2014 02:17 PM

This should do the trick.

JHAz 06-16-2014 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatbottom (Post 25016226)
With 93dB sensivity you don't need much power. 100W will be plenty.

With 1W of power, you'll get 93dB from the speakers. That's loud already.

It is loud in your house at 3 meters. . Not so loud at 100-200 feet in a club. Any reputable amp with power at or above speakers rated power will let you get whatever they have to give. Crown and qsc have decent amps at reasonable prices. You don't need their high price stuff to get everything those speakers have to give.
Not a fan personally of the behringer stuff but they might not die as easily as they used to.

fatbottom 06-16-2014 02:23 PM

You could try using a crossover in the yamaha, that would free up power, and less distortion on those speakers.

oh that Yamaha can't be more than 48W per channel anyway, and that's with 100% efficiency.

MichaelJHuman 06-16-2014 02:36 PM

Note that you will need a way to feed an amp such as a mixer. A cheapo mixer with an iPod plugged into it might be find to feed an amp (cheapo mixers may be a bit noisy)

As for amps, you can't do too much better than the current sale prices I have seen on Crown XLS amps. I just bought another one, as the sub $400 price for 300x2 watts into 8 ohms was too tempting. I hooked it up in my bedroom, but it has some hum issues due to it using a 3 prong plug and an obvious ground loop issue ( I added an isolation transformer which made the hum tolerable.) I drive mine with an 800 series Yamaha which does have pre outs.

rumpus2054 06-16-2014 02:44 PM

Right, so I could get a cheaper power amp like a QSC / Crown / Behringer, or how about this...

What is the likelyhood that my receiver is actually doing 100W? Very unlikely I imagine. Now what is the likelihood that the Emotiva mini-x A-100 is pushing it's rating of 50W / ch? I hear good things about Emotiva including that their power ratings are usually significantly underrated compared to most companies overrating their gear (like my Yamaha). Do you think this mini-a x-100 might do the trick? I'm guessing it may not get the power/volume I want, but it must sound better & louder than my Yamaha, right? It's not XLR/balanced, but I won't be running the cables very far and have some nice, sturdy, thick Monoprice RCA cables.

And if it sounds better than my receiver, I could use it for home use (I usually use headphones at home except for 1 input). I'm guessing it's not enough power, but it could very well do the trick.

Thoughts?

Thanks for all the replies!

EDIT: making this clear. I have DJ mixer with internal USB soundcard (Denon DNX-600). It has XLR & RCA out options (both can be used at same time :) )

fatbottom 06-16-2014 02:45 PM

;-)

http://www.drsoundwave.com/ati-3007-...amplifier.html

oh already said your yamaha is no more than 45W odd per channel.

rumpus2054 06-16-2014 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatbottom (Post 25017282)
;-)

http://www.drsoundwave.com/ati-3007-...amplifier.html

oh already said your yamaha is no more than 45W odd per channel.


Something tells me that's not going to be very cheap, considering I have to contact for price, lol. Did you read my question about the Emotiva mini-x a-100 above?

BIG INJUN CHIEF 06-19-2014 02:06 PM

I am a fan of QSC amps and have a few in my HT. I purchased as B and C stock from Pro Audio Star. Give them a ring and they may knock off ~$25.

300x2-$249 refurb
http://www.proaudiostar.com/qsc-gx3-...amplifier.html

500x2-$349 refurb
http://www.proaudiostar.com/qsc-gx5-...amplifier.html

jevans64 06-19-2014 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumpus2054 (Post 25017514)
Something tells me that's not going to be very cheap, considering I have to contact for price, lol. Did you read my question about the Emotiva mini-x a-100 above?

The mini-x a-100 does just a little bit above its rated specs. It won't give you much more raw power than the receiver but it WILL be cleaner power with less noise and distortion. The mini-x a-100 is specifically designed to be portable for a portable setup, but it really won't fill a big room with anything put PA sound, like someone giving a lecture or something. I'm gonna say your cheapest choice is going to be a Crown amp that will give you the power you need. These amps have more distortion than an audiophile amp but we are talking a DJ setting, not a studio setting.

DonH50 06-19-2014 07:01 PM

You will get far more power/dollar getting a pro amp. I personally much prefer Crown over Behringer but have little experience with QSC.

3 dB is about what I add when someone asks for it to be "just a hair louder". That takes twice the power.
10 dB is twice as loud (in the midrange) and requires ten times the power.

You are going to want a significant increase in power for your situation (hope the speakers can handle it). The good news is the average power is probably only maybe 10 W or so, maybe a little higher for your club situation. The amp FMW linked would be a good choice IMO.

FWIWFM - Don

rumpus2054 06-21-2014 10:21 PM

Everything I've seen from Behringer in other equipment has been garbage, so I would not buy any Behringer device.

I was Craigslisting it and found a Crown XLS-402 refurbished for $175 at a local audio store. Seems like a pretty good deal for used gear. Wattage rating is what I'm looking for.


On another note, does running speakers like my VE-12s have any negative impacts? Obviously you have mote potential to blow your speakers if you're pushing them too hard, but it just seems weird that speakers can work with both hi-fi amps and power amps like these Crown's.

What's a good way to adjust volume so I don't blow my speakers? It always gets softer the drunker you get, lol. I'm guessing I should set the amp at about 50% and control the rest with the DJ mixer master volume. Or would I want to set the amp 90% and keep the volume lower on the DJ mixer?


Thanks again for all replies.

fatbottom 06-22-2014 12:04 AM

I'd probably say send highest level from your pre into power, but not so high it clips the power amp.

Generally with hifi gear (same make) they're voltage matched, but for other brands a pre signal may be too high, or too low for a power so need to use gain control on the power. A bit like recording level a on tape deck, hey had clip LED's or visual display showing the input level. Same principle to subwoofer you want to send it highest possible signal without overloading the input circuit, then adjust the subwoofer gain knob.

At least that's my understanding. That's if your power amplifiers have another gain/volume control

rumpus2054 06-22-2014 06:20 PM

Wait a second... If I were to get this Crown Power amp, do I need a pre amp still? It has XLR ports and speaker wire posts. Can't I just hook the speakers directly to the posts, and send the XLR from the DJ mixer into the power amp?

DonH50 06-22-2014 06:58 PM

Yes.

rumpus2054 06-22-2014 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonH50 (Post 25178786)
Yes.

Can you elaborate... Yes to needing preamp or yes to just plugging it all in?


Thanks.

lovinthehd 06-22-2014 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumpus2054 (Post 25179906)
Can you elaborate... Yes to needing preamp or yes to just plugging it all in?


Thanks.

Maybe should have said no to the preamp before the yes for the rest

doc5150 06-22-2014 08:26 PM

Send your music from what your using into the mixer, then out to the amp, can run stereo that way too. Can also use something like a dbx driverack to use as a crossover/eq if you use subs also.

DonH50 06-22-2014 08:54 PM

Sorry, yes to your last question: You can drive the amp directly from the mixer without another preamp.

rumpus2054 06-24-2014 11:31 AM

Awesome, thanks.

I'm wondering though, if I spend $175 on a power amp that I may use a few times a year, would it be smarter to get a newer, more powerful receiver or something else that I might get more value out of? I'm guessing the power amp is the cheapest immediate solution, but I really don't think I'll be using it but a few times here and there.

fatbottom 06-24-2014 11:37 AM

a good power amp would last 20 years, and many speaker/source upgrades. My power amps are the same since Pro-Logic era. So several av pre-amp upgrades, but the same amps.

Something like a 5 channel Rotel is a good start

DonH50 06-24-2014 11:55 AM

I'd keep the receiver out of parties. It will live longer that way.

Ask your friends to chip in a little. A long time ago when I did HS gigs and parties for friends I'd let them know a few bucks to cover costs would help. If it was a special event I'd get paid a little extra (I'd ask for $25 - $50 for a birthday party, tells you how long ago that was; official school events I'd get $100 - $200). Chances are nobody will balk at throwing a few bucks in a hat (jar, whatever) and you'll be able to cover the cost of the amp.

rumpus2054 06-24-2014 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonH50 (Post 25227282)
I'd keep the receiver out of parties. It will live longer that way.

Ask your friends to chip in a little. A long time ago when I did HS gigs and parties for friends I'd let them know a few bucks to cover costs would help. If it was a special event I'd get paid a little extra (I'd ask for $25 - $50 for a birthday party, tells you how long ago that was; official school events I'd get $100 - $200). Chances are nobody will balk at throwing a few bucks in a hat (jar, whatever) and you'll be able to cover the cost of the amp.


Yea good point, just need something rugged with power. Well I'll just go for the amp then, but I can't decide if I should keep hounding Craigslist or just get the XLS 402 for $175... seems like the best deal I've seen looking around and it's local from a store, so 30 day return warranty.

DonH50 06-24-2014 01:06 PM

I'd probably get the 402 from the store since it is an older model. The new XLS 1000 is about $300 from Sweetwater Sound etc. if you want to stretch for a new one.

rumpus2054 06-25-2014 11:13 AM

Well I found a QSC RMX850 on Craigslist for $50... that seems way too cheap though. This is what the poster said, "has some scratches, kept in studio in rack for 10 years, works great for studio monitors, small passive speakers or a subwoofer".

Seem legit? Obviously I'd test it first but that deal seems killer. I'd much rather pay $50 than $175.

GuitarMan216 06-25-2014 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMW (Post 25016450)

I was gonna recommend the same thing. Haha.

I have a Crown CE-1000 laying around if you're interested. ;)

rumpus2054 06-25-2014 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarMan216 (Post 25257618)
I was gonna recommend the same thing. Haha.

I have a Crown CE-1000 laying around if you're interested. ;)


How much? Haha.

GuitarMan216 06-25-2014 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumpus2054 (Post 25260570)
How much? Haha.

No clue, I guess I'd have to see what the MV is on 'em. I've had it for a while.


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