Surge Protector / Power Conditioner Help for Noob!!! - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 54 Old 06-21-2014, 07:44 PM
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I personally use and strongly recommend Torus AVR2-20 or if you don't use 20A circuit, you can just get AVR15 Plus.


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post #32 of 54 Old 06-21-2014, 08:16 PM
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Considering the price of the components being discussed in this thread, I'm going to guess he's not looking for a solution such as that. Is a nice option though.

The ups units will draw some power for themselves but that is nominal. 11 amps would cover all your equipment there on both ups. So add that to whatever your subwoofer says it pulls from the wall (look in the manual or the backplate) and keep it below 15 amps. Also, that 11 amps power draw would be at max specs. You should be fine with a single empty 15 amp service, 20 amp obviously is fine too.
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post #33 of 54 Old 06-23-2014, 10:12 AM
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What most people do not realize is that most of the surge suppressors on the market generally use MOVs to handle the surge. MOVs wear out as they age. Also, if a surge or spike hits, the MOVs most likely will be damaged to some degree. After a few years, any MOV based surge suppressor should be either replaced or have all their MOVS changed out.

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post #34 of 54 Old 06-23-2014, 11:49 AM
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^^^ See posts on proceeding page, has been said and nobody disputes it. BTW, there are some pretty cool MOV designs that last much longer but that won't be found in $10 strips any time soon.

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post #35 of 54 Old 06-23-2014, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I think for UPS I have decided to go with the CyberPower 1500VA unit for my main equipment, and probably the 550VA "Compact" model for my projector.

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post #36 of 54 Old 06-23-2014, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdeydwondrer View Post
http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-TLP...urge+protector

You can get both in more outlet versions for more money, but with a ups behind these you should have plenty of protected outlets between the two.

Correct in that you would put the surge protector first, then the ups. Both the units I listed are also 15amp strips. Some are 12 amps. Keep that in mind when you figure your total numbers.
I believe you, but out of curiosity - where exactly does it say that it is 15 amps? I can't find it on that website, and I searched for some others on Amazon and they often do not indicate how many amps it is...

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post #37 of 54 Old 06-23-2014, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KtrainHurricane View Post
I believe you, but out of curiosity - where exactly does it say that it is 15 amps? I can't find it on that website, and I searched for some others on Amazon and they often do not indicate how many amps it is...
You can see the full specs on TrippLites website. Will show clamping voltage and pass through there also.
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post #38 of 54 Old 06-26-2014, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdeydwondrer View Post
Hey I ordered this surge protector, and this is probably a dumb question, but what is the difference between the 3 plugs that are separated from the 5 on the opposite side? If you look at the picture you can see it...and those 3 plugs have a little picture next to them but I'm not sure what it means. I checked the info "manual" that came with this unit, but it does not say anything about it.

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post #39 of 54 Old 06-26-2014, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KtrainHurricane View Post
Hey I ordered this surge protector, and this is probably a dumb question, but what is the difference between the 3 plugs that are separated from the 5 on the opposite side? If you look at the picture you can see it...and those 3 plugs have a little picture next to them but I'm not sure what it means. I checked the info "manual" that came with this unit, but it does not say anything about it.
That's a picture of a 'power brick'. It's basically just giving you extra room for those large size plugs to fit, no technical difference about the ports.
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post #40 of 54 Old 07-08-2014, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Received my CyberPower UPS today - just wanted to confirm that I CAN and SHOULD plug it into the TrippLite surge protector I bought...

I ask because the UPS's manual specifically says not to do this, and that it will void the warranty if I do.

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post #41 of 54 Old 07-09-2014, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KtrainHurricane View Post
Received my CyberPower UPS today - just wanted to confirm that I CAN and SHOULD plug it into the TrippLite surge protector I bought...

I ask because the UPS's manual specifically says not to do this, and that it will void the warranty if I do.

No, you should not plug it into the Tripp Lite. Why would you? The Cyberpower has it's own surge protection built in. It won't give you "double" the protection and it will probably interfere with the operation of the Cyberpower, hence the warning NOT to do it.

The exception to the rule is if you have a whole house surge protector installed at the panel, or a Brickwall or Zerosurge, etc. They don't function like the powerstrips and won't interfere with your UPS functionality.
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post #42 of 54 Old 07-09-2014, 09:56 AM
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I prefer metal enclosure for safety and tripp-lite is well respected:
TRIPP LITE AVBAR6 Isobar Metal RJ11 Coax 6 Outlet 6-Feet Cord A/V Surge Protector

Those works great, never have any issue.

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post #43 of 54 Old 07-09-2014, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
No, you should not plug it into the Tripp Lite. Why would you? The Cyberpower has it's own surge protection built in. It won't give you "double" the protection
In all honesty (and as dumb as I may be for thinking it), that is actually exactly what I thought it would do... Give "double" surge protection. It is actually what @wdeydwondrer suggested to me on the first page of this thread.

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post #44 of 54 Old 07-09-2014, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KtrainHurricane View Post
In all honesty (and as dumb as I may be for thinking it), that is actually exactly what I thought it would do... Give "double" surge protection. It is actually what @wdeydwondrer suggested to me on the first page of this thread.
The suggestion was to place it behind a better surge protector so you would have better protection than the cheap apc in question provided. Never suggested that it would double your protection.

I have also run these cheap ups devices on quality surge strips for years with 0 problems. Sure it will void the xxx $ warranty, but if you read over the actual warranty you will see just how difficult it is to use.

I have seen nor experienced any problems with that setup, but it is your money and stuff so go with what you are comfortable running long term.
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post #45 of 54 Old 07-09-2014, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdeydwondrer View Post
The suggestion was to place it behind a better surge protector so you would have better protection than the cheap apc in question provided. Never suggested that it would double your protection.

I have also run these cheap ups devices on quality surge strips for years with 0 problems. Sure it will void the xxx $ warranty, but if you read over the actual warranty you will see just how difficult it is to use.

I have seen nor experienced any problems with that setup, but it is your money and stuff so go with what you are comfortable running long term.
Never accused you for claiming it would give me double the protection...sorry if it came off that way. I was just pointing out that you felt it wasn't a problem, while @zeus33 did. Just trying to pick the best solution.

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post #46 of 54 Old 07-09-2014, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KtrainHurricane View Post
Never accused you for claiming it would give me double the protection...sorry if it came off that way. I was just pointing out that you felt it wasn't a problem, while @zeus33 did. Just trying to pick the best solution.

Realistically, it won't hurt anything, but I really don't think you will gain anything from it either. wdey has had some good info and as he mentioned, the "warranty" that they provide has so much fine print it's ridiculous. I have heard that Cyberpower is good about replacing their units though.

Flip a coin. Do you have a TV somewhere else in the house or a PC that you could use the TrippLite on? It would be much better served in that location. TrippLite does make good products and stands behind them.
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post #47 of 54 Old 07-09-2014, 04:36 PM
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Cyberpower will far more easily replace a failed unit under the man. warranty as it only lasts 2 years. The big connected equipment warranty is a-whole-nother story. I haven't read the entire thing lately, but if I recall properly it's actually covered through a third party, you have to return your unit and proof of purchase to them for inspection, then THEY determine if you have a covered claim or not. Doesn't particularly matter what YOU say :<

Connecting a surge protector BEHIND a ups can cause extra wear/premature failure of the surge protector. The worst case that I've ever seen reported for a ups behind a surge strip was simply more battery switching. That's likely due to overloading the power strip with extras though. So as long as you do the math and know that you have extra capacity, then there is nothing to worry about by plugging it in that way. What you GAIN from a ups behind a quality surge strip is a cleaner input (if your surge strip filters also) and far higher surge resistance than what is baked into these residential units. You'll also see a tighter clamping voltage on a good surge strip than you will find on affordable ups units.

My previous post was off my phone while at work so I chose to be rather short, lol, my bad.
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post #48 of 54 Old 07-09-2014, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdeydwondrer View Post
Cyberpower will far more easily replace a failed unit under the man. warranty as it only lasts 2 years. The big connected equipment warranty is a-whole-nother story. I haven't read the entire thing lately, but if I recall properly it's actually covered through a third party, you have to return your unit and proof of purchase to them for inspection, then THEY determine if you have a covered claim or not. Doesn't particularly matter what YOU say :<

Connecting a surge protector BEHIND a ups can cause extra wear/premature failure of the surge protector. The worst case that I've ever seen reported for a ups behind a surge strip was simply more battery switching. That's likely due to overloading the power strip with extras though. So as long as you do the math and know that you have extra capacity, then there is nothing to worry about by plugging it in that way. What you GAIN from a ups behind a quality surge strip is a cleaner input (if your surge strip filters also) and far higher surge resistance than what is baked into these residential units. You'll also see a tighter clamping voltage on a good surge strip than you will find on affordable ups units.

My previous post was off my phone while at work so I chose to be rather short, lol, my bad.
Cool, thanks for the info.

And just to be clear - "behind a UPS" means surge protector into UPS, and UPS into wall ... and "in front of a UPS" means UPS into surge protector, and surge protector into wall, correct?

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post #49 of 54 Old 07-09-2014, 07:46 PM
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yup
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post #50 of 54 Old 07-09-2014, 07:55 PM
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IIRC from a conversation with Tripp Lite engineer eons ago the reason the warranty is voided is because they cannot ensure the extra surge protector between their UPS/surge protector and the wall outlet will provide adequate (low) impedance to all three terminals in the event of a surge. At that time they would also not warranty their device if I used an extension cord between it and the wall. There was also the issue of brownouts caused by the surge protector if under rated and so forth.

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post #51 of 54 Old 07-09-2014, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Can you guys "dumb this down" for me and explain why it wouldn't double-protect?

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post #52 of 54 Old 07-10-2014, 04:38 AM
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If the surge protector is cheap or to little than it will blow straight through and the ups will have to deal with it. If it stops at the surge strip than the ups doesn't even see the surge. So it's more that the protection level is not doubled (added together for higher rating).

Also if the impedance on one of the terminals soars, the ups SHOULD treat it as a fault and switch over or alarm if it's the ground, letting you know there is a problem. The biggest real life problem should be that the company can't stop you from overloading a surge strip that you plug a ups into. Worst case, you could start a fire, hence why i have been trying to preach knowing your capacity (and load).
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post #53 of 54 Old 07-10-2014, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdeydwondrer View Post
If the surge protector is cheap or to little than it will blow straight through and the ups will have to deal with it. If it stops at the surge strip than the ups doesn't even see the surge. So it's more that the protection level is not doubled (added together for higher rating).
Is there any "middle" version where the surge protector stops some/most of the surge through the line, and any access would then be picked up by the UPS? This is how I think of it (probably incorrectly, though)...

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post #54 of 54 Old 07-10-2014, 09:52 AM
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Not really as these surge strips work by clamping off the voltage when it gets to high. So it will either stop it or not. And if a surge blows through your tripplite, chances are you'll blow the ups too as it will be a very strong surge. The triplite should stop almost everything but a direct lightning strike though for real world use.
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