The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 100 - AVS Forum
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post #2971 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
This looks to be the case, Kris.

Can't agree. It's just speculation (as is mine). And Kris is so, so wrong when he believes that Dolby have dropped the ball on the launch! It is a classic example of how to conduct a new product launch IMO, and I have been professionally involved with literally hundreds of product launches for major FTSE100 UK companies. Of all of them, I'd be very proud to have been involved with the Dolby launch of Atmos.
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post #2972 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post
I'm fully embracing Atmos as soon as I can. but I'm also not expecting more than a handful of initial titles. I think that's being realistic. But if the flood gates open, we can all be very pleasantly surprised with thinner wallets

I hope there's more than a few studios that are part of this coordinated launch with real content for sale. But I also know how few 7.1 Blu-rays there are out of all total releases when the format has supported 7.1 since the beginning. 7.1 is relatively rare when you look at all releases.
How many theatrical mixes are 7.1, out of the total?


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post #2973 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
I think Dolby REALLY dropped the ball on the initial announcement since they were in the prime of the summer and didn't deliver clear marketing of not only studios on board for support but titles that were in the theater at the time of announcement or soon after that were already lined up for a later Atmos Blu-ray release.
Keep in mind that Dolby hasn't made any announcements nor posted any press releases, just updated their informal blog with news that consumer Atmos is coming, followed by a FAQ. Dolby did release hardware manufacturers from the NDA, which then allowed information on speakers and electronics to come out. But that information all came via individual manufacturers, not Dolby.

Which is why there hasn't been any info on specific titles for home video. At some point they will release studios from their NDA and we will start getting specifics about BD and streaming. Dolby is supposed to make announcements next week, so let's see if we find out more about the software side of consumer Atmos.
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post #2974 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Oh I still absolutely believe the market for Atmos is small in the grand scheme.
You can’t have it both ways, Kris. Either pissing people off is important or it isn't. If the market is tiny, it isn't.

Of course Dolby have me sold on Atmos. I have heard it in a HT setting, and it is a huge step forward over what we currently have. Why would I not be 'sold'?


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post #2975 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Can't agree. It's just speculation (as is mine). And Kris is so, so wrong when he believes that Dolby have dropped the ball on the launch! It is a classic example of how to conduct a new product launch IMO, and I have been professionally involved with literally hundreds of product launches for major FTSE100 UK companies. Of all of them, I'd be very proud to have been involved with the Dolby launch of Atmos.
Really? Because I just saw a post from Sdurani that says they haven't even launched it yet?? Does that make you proud of the AVR/speaker announcements from Onkyo, Marantz and others or of Dolby's?? I guess I'm confused now.

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post #2976 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
You can’t have it both ways, Kris. Either pissing people off is important or it isn't. If the market is tiny, it isn't.

Of course Dolby have me sold on Atmos. I have heard it in a HT setting, and it is a huge step forward over what we currently have. Why would I not be 'sold'?
Okay, the market is tiny (in the big scheme of electronics) and pissing people off is aways important. But at this point the only people pissed are the day one adopters (if big titles are indeed not available). But they still may pull the rabbit out of the hat. Great that you've heard it, glad you liked it. Looking forward to hearing it at CEDIA and making up my own mind.
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post #2977 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Um, you said onscreen.
No I didn’t. I said "Every ape's voice was precisely located to where the ape was, even when he was off screen..."
I mentioned on-screen action in relation to the voices - that is to say, if 'on screen' action dictated that the voice was behind me, that's where it was.

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I was talking about the voice tracking for images on screen, not in the surround soundstage. If a character is onscreen, you shouldn't be imaging to the sides or rears or above you either.
Good job I didn't say that then

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I said that soundtracks have never had much of an issue with imaging correctly to imagery on screen, especially dialogue. I thought there were some fantastic surround sequences in Dawn. I only saw it in Atmos (at an ETX and RPX theater) so I don't know how it would have sounded without Atmos, which is why I would love a comparison to a legacy soundtrack. Gravity held up really well with surround imaging without Atmos (IMAX) and even in the home but the Atmos mix was a bit more seamless in image placement. I hope to compare it one day too.
I saw gravity in a SOTA theatere (non Atmos) and I have seen (some of it) it at the best Atmos facility in Europe and I have seen (some of) it in a HT environment and there was really no comparison with the non-Atmos version. I agree the non-Atmos version is very good sonically (I have seen it on BD about 3 or 4 times) but it isn't nearly as good as "the real thing" IMO.


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post #2978 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
And hopefully that is the case! I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE to hear you spouting out a long list of titles on day one. It is just puzzling why Dolby hasn't already alluded to them by now.
Would it be because it's nothing really to do with Dolby? it's the studios' responsibility to promote the content. I've already speculated on a possible reason why they are keeping schtum about it for now but you said it would piss people off


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post #2979 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Really? Because I just saw a post from Sdurani that says they haven't even launched it yet?? Does that make you proud of the AVR/speaker announcements from Onkyo, Marantz and others or of Dolby's?? I guess I'm confused now.
Haven’t launched what yet? Atmos? It is an ongoing launch, brilliantly handled so far (professional opinion).


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post #2980 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 02:41 PM
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I responded to this first sentence:

Quote:
You've never heard voices localised to the on-screen action before though, like you did with Dawn.
And yes I have.

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post #2981 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 02:42 PM
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Haven’t launched what yet? Atmos? It is an ongoing launch, brilliantly handled so far (professional opinion).
I was being sarcastic based on the other comment right before yours from him.

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post #2982 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 02:43 PM
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We're almost in 'real time' here Kris, but I have had a long day and am due an early night. It's 2245 here now so, much as I'd like to continue this with you, it will have to wait till tomorrow (for me). Enjoy the rest of your day!


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post #2983 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
I responded to this first sentence:
What - and you ignored the rest of the post? OK, I didn't realise.


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post #2984 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 02:45 PM
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I was being sarcastic based on the other comment right before yours from him.
You and I seem to have come away with different takes on Sanjay's post.


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post #2985 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 02:58 PM
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I think you and I come across with different takes on a lot of things. But we still both seem to want the best audio experience possible and I think that's what matters the most.
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post #2986 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 03:20 PM
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How many theatrical mixes are 7.1, out of the total?
Keith

If you're asking how many theatrical movies were 7.1 for the cinema, I wouldn't have a clue. Filmmixer might have an idea

If you're asking how many BD releases are 7.1, there's several sites that listed all available 6.1/7.1 BD's. Here's one I can link to.

The original post is in 2010 but the author is keeping the list up-to-date with new & latest titles.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=159814

counting rows on an excel sheet, his total is 711.

the total # of blu-ray titles released is many tens of thousands from all studios. it's going to be tedious to add up the list by studio but I'll see if I can parse the textual listings to just get numbers and will let you know the number if I succeed!

the same site has the totals by genre and by studio. if totals by genre don't overlap, the total will be well over 300,000.

for the sake of argument, let's say 7.1's are < 0.25 % of the total.

IOW, very dam few are taking advantage of existing capability.

and total number of Atmos titles is about 120, right?

not scientific by any means but looking at numbers, it took all Blu-ray studios 8 yrs to release 711 titles with 7.1 out of all the movies released, or about 89/yr.

with 120 titles with a subset of a subset for Atmos, it could take 1.3 yrs for them to get thru the list IF they decided to aggressively release them at the same pace of ~90/yr. or it could take a decade (!) if they follow the same pattern as 7.1

Steve

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post #2987 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 03:46 PM
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I think you and I come across with different takes on a lot of things. But we still both seem to want the best audio experience possible and I think that's what matters the most.
I think we're all on that same page, Kris.

That's why I'm implementing Atmos even if I don't completely trust studios to deliver the content on a timely basis. I'd rather have the opportunity to enjoy several titles a year than none at all.

Once the speakers are bought & installed, the rest is EZ.
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post #2988 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 03:58 PM
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I am ready as can be. With 6 ML Vanquish in the ceiling I am set for a couple of different scenarios. Let the games/movies begin.

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post #2989 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
I just saw a post from Sdurani that says they haven't even launched it yet?? Does that make you proud of the AVR/speaker announcements from Onkyo, Marantz and others or of Dolby's?? I guess I'm confused now.
You're confusing the launch of a Dolby product with a press release issued from Dolby. The latter isn't necessary for the former.

Dolby is coordinating a continued product launch, with the first step lifting manufacturers' NDA in order to whet the appetite of consumers. At that point, consumer Atmos had officially launched and there was plenty of buzz going (remember the week of June 23rd here at AVS?), all without Dolby themselves having to issue a press release.

They've kept their powder dry until the next step this month. And there will be more in the subsequent step at CEDIA. Along the way there are demos, like the one Keith attended and the upcoming Pioneer open house here in Los Angeles, to keep fresh info flowing. People attending the demos will talk about it, rather than Dolby having to issue a press release.

That sort of coordination between manufacturers and studios doesn't require Dolby to issue a press release. But that doesn't mean Atmos hasn't launched or that Dolby isn't coordinating things behind the scenes. By comparison, look at how Dolby is getting information out in stages vs the last 6 months of info for the XMC-1 product launch.

It doesn't require a background in marketing, like Keith has, to recognize a well coordinated launch that includes multiple electronics manufacturers and speaker designers and movie studios.
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post #2990 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 05:37 PM
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Theatrical Atmos mixes are (also still) based on channels so the same rules apply as before - home theaters and living rooms are acoustically different from movie theaters.
A remix for home is probably a good idea.
What percentage of this happening? ...Because no two homes are the same.

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post #2991 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 06:04 PM
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You're confusing the launch of a Dolby product with a press release issued from Dolby. The latter isn't necessary for the former.

Dolby is coordinating a continued product launch, with the first step lifting manufacturers' NDA in order to whet the appetite of consumers. At that point, consumer Atmos had officially launched and there was plenty of buzz going (remember the week of June 23rd here at AVS?), all without Dolby themselves having to issue a press release.

They've kept their powder dry until the next step this month. And there will be more in the subsequent step at CEDIA. Along the way there are demos, like the one Keith attended and the upcoming Pioneer open house here in Los Angeles, to keep fresh info flowing. People attending the demos will talk about it, rather than Dolby having to issue a press release.

That sort of coordination between manufacturers and studios doesn't require Dolby to issue a press release. But that doesn't mean Atmos hasn't launched or that Dolby isn't coordinating things behind the scenes. By comparison, look at how Dolby is getting information out in stages vs the last 6 months of info for the XMC-1 product launch.

It doesn't require a background in marketing, like Keith has, to recognize a well coordinated launch that includes multiple electronics manufacturers and speaker designers and movie studios.
I would never compare this to the bumbling that Emo did with the XMC. But in terms of stages I think I would have handled it different. To me it would have made more sense for Dolby to do the initial announcement for Atmos in home talking about what it is, why it's different and the science behind it. Next would be the hardware and software. Instead you have manufacturers announcing a format for another company and pages upon pages of questions from the would be consumers on what, where, when and how. Would Blu-ray have done better if the hardware manufacturers just announced players for a format that the BDA didn't announce or inform the public about? I'm not a marketing guy clearly and while I think most of the audio people on HT forums may know what Atmos is the general public isn't as aware. Of course none of this opinion matters now, what's done is done. But saying that this has been a phenomenal launch given the mum word from Dolby except on their blog and using hardware maufacturers to trumpet the arrival of the next big thing seems a bit much. But since most mainstream consumers don't read forums for press releases from manufacturers I guess they'll probably hear it from Dolby first anyways, or the local big box store, or never. I still get a glaze in the eyes from most of the engineers at work when I mention True HD or Master Audio.
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post #2992 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
AIUI once the mix has been done for the theatrical release, the work has also been done for the BD release. It scales.
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Theatrical Atmos mixes are (also still) based on channels so the same rules apply as before - home theaters and living rooms are acoustically different from movie theaters. A remix for home is probably a good idea.
Here you go Markus.

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post #2993 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 06:20 PM
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Theatrical Atmos mixes are (also still) based on channels so the same rules apply as before - home theaters and living rooms are acoustically different from movie theaters...
Heck, Home Theaters in living rooms are considerably different (even from each other} than dedicated Home Theater rooms where folks go to a lot of trouble to try and get it acoustically similar to Movie Theaters.

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Oh I still absolutely believe the market for Atmos is small in the grand scheme. And nothing that Dolby has announced has me believing anything else. For mass consumers it is hard enough to do 5.1 (can't tell you how many people I see with HTIBs have their surrounds sitting right next to the front left and right) so now they are supposed to buy all new AVRs and speakers too, Yeah it is going to be a worldwide hit dude. That doesn't mean that I don't want it though, or the enthusiast. But wanting and getting are two different things...
This post here sums up my view as well...Home Theater has been a hobby of mine for almost 14 years and I am still surprised how many people are NOT into it in the circles I travel...That said, I remember seeing a poll in another section which asked how many speakers we had and was real surprised the majority of responders on AVS had only 5 speakers(and in 2nd place was 7) but only a few had 9 or more using height and/or wides: What Is Your Main Speaker Configuration?

Granted, Atmos looks more awesome than the other matrixing formats, but my guess is that purchasing more speakers and placement issues are obstacles to keep consumers from going to Atmos based systems en-masse, or even on this forum. Fwiw, this appears to be a dedicated Home Theater product/format and I would be curious what percentage of us actually have one who post on here regularly--I have a 9.1 setup using 2 subs and it's in my small library.

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post #2994 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 06:28 PM
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Spider Man 2 and Captain America also DTS.

Maybe the first title will be Extended Edition of The Hobbit??
Also DTS-HD MA ---------------------------- DTS-UHD 7.1.4 ??

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Last edited by NorthSky; 08-04-2014 at 06:52 PM. Reason: blank dot
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post #2995 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post
According to both Audiophile.No (link) and the 2L.No (link) RELEASE PLAN 2014-2016 (select "release plan 2013-2014"), the 2L label will release MAGNIFICAT, a pureaudio (link) BD from TrondheimSolistene, containing both 9.1 Auro-3D and Dolby Atmos encodes of the same recorded material. (The 2L label has previously released some BDs with both DTS-HDMA and 9.1 Auro-3D content.)

Perhaps someone will do a "technology comparison" and report here...?!

_
When I first read your post and checked the links it reminded me of this: David Chesky | SACD 6.0 Surround

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post #2996 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 06:50 PM
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As an aside; I notice few members here who aren't spelling correctly 'Maleficent'

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post #2997 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
That's correct, I've taken a role at Secrets as their new Senior Video Editor. I liked the gang at S&V but it was time to move on. Going back to Secrets was a no brainer as I can be as technical as I want for reviews and I don't have to worry about word counts or adding new objective testing. It is just a better fit for the kind of reviews I like to do and want to see. Stacey Spears is coming back aboard in a joint role with me and I think together we can bring a lot to the Secrets team and reviews going forward. Should be a lot of fun.
Hi Kris,

This is good news because I like Secrets and the people there.

By the way, I notice that under your name (username) on the left, where it says;
Location: The Pacific
Northwet


Where is that?

Bests, ~ Robert § (Bob)

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post #2998 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 07:08 PM
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I am pretty sure that Dolby knows exactly what it is doing and how Atmos for Home Theater is going to roll out. I think it would be really nice to just wait and see what happens instead of speculating on what we don't know. I am sure things will be announced at CEDIA Expo or possibly a little bit sooner. No matter what, I am getting my HT Room ready for it!

Stewart Firehawk G3 92" screen
Epson Powerlite Home Cinema 5030 UB
Denon AVR-4311CI - 7.1 surround sound setup
Denon AVR-X5200W
Blu-Ray: Panasonic DMP-BDT360, Oppo 93 & 103
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post #2999 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
I don't think they have much choice. They won’t want to delay the release of the current crop of Blurays, but they can't very well release them in Atmos right now
They could have released 'Gravity' on Blu-ray already with an additional audio soundtrack; Dolby TrueHD 7.1.2 (or .4) Atmos surround.

If they did, everyone (many of us) would have jump on the first product having a Dolby Atmos decoder.
...Talk about doing business the proper way!

Great Dolby Atmos software first, then the hardware soon to follow...

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Last edited by NorthSky; 08-04-2014 at 07:27 PM.
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post #3000 of 8473 Old 08-04-2014, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Also DTS-HD MA ---------------------------- DTS-UHD 7.1.4 ??
Not very likely.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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