The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 173 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5161 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Thanks, Selden.

True, but I don't use OTA radio any more. AFAIK the power supplies for all these units are universal. I am "thinking about it".

No, rather based on the region so USA model is 120v/60Hz.

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post #5162 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
I'd say go for it, bro! But only if it doesn't put you in a financial "situation".

Cuz I know I would (Yammy 3040) but I don't want to be broke for the next half year.
The financial aspect isn't relevant as I am going to buy an Atmos unit as soon as I can anyway. And buying from the States actually saves me $150, all taxes, carriage etc taken into account. I have bought a lot of stuff from the US over the years, but not usually highly complex stuff, because of the warrant issue if the thing dies on me. Speakers, subs, amps etc are all a fairly safe bet, and can all be easily repaired here. But AVRs are a different kettle of fish.

I guess it boils down to this: if the UK models will be here in two weeks, I may as well wait. If the UK models won't be here until October, then getting one right now would be attractive, and I'd have to hope it works properly for at least 2 years. Hmmm...
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post #5163 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted by kokishin View Post
Marc,

Do you have Atmos content to try other than the Denon BD Atmos demo included with the X5200? I have a feeling you're in an enviable position with respect to access. Can't wait to get your feedback on the X5200 with the AJ Atmos speakers.
Note that although this demo disc exists, it is not shipping with the X5200W units, or rather at least not with the USA units.

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post #5164 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
Let me put a slight damper on that. I have a set of Tannoy Di5DC's on my bedroom balcony, powered by a little Parasound Zamp v3. They're fine for background music, but they do have an audible resonance in the lower mids that's distracting for more-than-background listening. I would not use them in my living room.

The bigger Di6DC may be a better speaker. I don't know; it was too big for my small bedroom balcony, so I never checked them out. The old Tannoy i8AW (driver designed under Mark Dodd, who's currently heading up all that cool stuff KEF's been doing, and their same "2046" unit used in several of their studio monitors from the day) is a massively better speaker, if you can find them and find the yolks. (One nice thing about the Di-series is that they come with the mounting yolks.) But as you'd expect they're also much larger, which may be an issue for ceiling mounts, and was an issue for my little balcony. Hence the Di5DC purchase.
Interesting. I hooked up a pair of Di5 DCs to my very high quality Class A amp, and fed it a CD from my equally high quality Naim CD player, and on careful listening to some vocal jazz I didn't detect any issues at all. Have you been able to measure this 'audible resonance' at all? I guess I could hook up REW and do a temporary install of the Di5 in the HT, but In didn't because I didn't hear anything obviously untoward in my listening test.

How would you characterise the resonance you are hearing?

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post #5165 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
Most people I know that are still using DVDs. If they stopped making DVDs, they would not switch to BD. .
Not even if the BD discs were more or less the same price as current DVD discs?
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post #5166 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 04:38 AM
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Robin hood country, so are you a Forest or County fan?
Neither. But my mates, Alan-a-Dale and Will Scarlet, are. Although Much The Miller's Son is a rugby fan TBH
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post #5167 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
I've not read about any A vs B for the upmixer on non-atmos mix, why?
Because the only demos anyone has heard so far have been the Dolby 'industry & press' demos and at those they didn't have DS available on the laptop which fed the content out. I expect people will be clamouring for the demo you are after (me too) at CEDIA, and of course, as units are now shipping, we can expect some reports here on AVS from the very early adopters such as FilmMixer.
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post #5168 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
No, rather based on the region so USA model is 120v/60Hz.
Ah right - thanks JD. One less decision for me to make then.
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post #5169 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Note that although this demo disc exists, it is not shipping with the X5200W units, or rather at least not with the USA units.
Dolby, London weren't even aware of its existence. I told them that Dolby, Hong Kong had them, and that I'd seen pictures of them, and Dolby, London said they would 'look into it' and promised to send me one if they became available for the UK.
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post #5170 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 05:04 AM
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post #5171 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
That would have applied to the change from cassette to CD as well though, but they still did it. Why? Because the content stopped being available on cassette. Same thing would be sure to happen if the content stopped being available on DVD. What would the car manufacturers do - carry on installing DVD players for an obsolete format, install nothing, or install players that could play the format in common use? I suspect the latter.

Your point makes perfect sense as long as there are DVDs. My postulation embraces a world where there are no more DVDs (being released).
Last point on market demand:
FYI - Auto Luxury brands carried cassette capability in headunits thru 2010....them old gezers just did not want to throw away what still "worked", until market demand dwindled they were offered
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...-vehicles.html

I did a 4 year stint in my companies OE Accessory division 2004-2008, trust me way back when the iPod and digital video was brand new I was all over that, trying to get a paradigm shift into going to just screens with capability for any mobile device to provide the audio/video.....the market data was just not there then and appears not there now...
I miss those days, when CES was really cool and neat....
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post #5172 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Looks like the Denon X5200W will be the first Atmos included AVR to be released and available as of today.
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
All D&M Atmos AVRs and pre-pros will be released with Atmos "on board" beginning with the X5200W, likely followed by the SR7009 in a week or two, and then the X4100W a week or two later.
Wow, Denon is first with Atmos; awesome! ... August 22, 2014

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post #5173 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 06:26 AM
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Somebody is buying them. I thought there were fifteen available earlier today.

I had purchased the second one which brought the count down to 13. Scheduled to be here Tuesday!
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post #5174 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 06:34 AM
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I had purchased the second one which brought the count down to 13. Scheduled to be here Tuesday!
Congratulations!
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post #5175 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Note that although this demo disc exists, it is not shipping with the X5200W units, or rather at least not with the USA units.
Rats!!!!!!!!!

I hope that FilmMixer will confirm or deny this when he--as presumably first on the block--gets his unit.
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post #5176 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 07:10 AM
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I had purchased the second one which brought the count down to 13. Scheduled to be here Tuesday!
Congratulations I'm very jealous maybe this time next year I'll be upgrading as well let us know how upmixing sounds.
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post #5177 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
That would have applied to the change from cassette to CD as well though, but they still did it. Why? Because the content stopped being available on cassette. Same thing would be sure to happen if the content stopped being available on DVD. What would the car manufacturers do - carry on installing DVD players for an obsolete format, install nothing, or install players that could play the format in common use? I suspect the latter.

Your point makes perfect sense as long as there are DVDs. My postulation embraces a world where there are no more DVDs (being released).
In that world there probably aren't any BDs being released either. Everyone is using digital downloads instead. I just can't see them dropping DVDs when BDs will never gain the popularity that DVDs had. Plus Digital has already surpassed DVD and BD sales combined(Digital surpassed Disc sales for the first time in the first half of 2014. And digital sales are increasing much faster than BD sales). By the time BD sales surpass DVD sales, Digital will have left them both in the dust.

http://www.digital-digest.com/news-6...ses-Discs.html
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post #5178 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
In that world there probably aren't any BDs being released either. Everyone is using digital downloads instead. I just can't see them dropping DVDs when BDs will never gain the popularity that DVDs had. Plus Digital has already surpassed DVD and BD sales combined(Digital surpassed Disc sales for the first time in the first half of 2014. And digital sales are increasing much faster than BD sales). By the time BD sales surpass DVD sales, Digital will have left them both in the dust.

http://www.digital-digest.com/news-6...ses-Discs.html
We are getting way OT and I never intended so much discussion of what was, for me anyway, just a throwaway remark, so this will be my last post on this subject. Yes, I agree that streaming or downloading may, one day, replace physical discs. The huge fly in the ointment is the broadband speed that many people have, especially those living well outside urban environments. Almost all the people who live around me for example have broadband speeds of less than 2 Mbps. This makes the idea of streaming and downloading Blu-ray quality video and sound a pure pipe dream. I had to go to enormous and expensive lengths to get a broadband speed of 30Mbps and most people aren’t sufficiently interested or just can't afford that option. And, of course, if streaming and downloading has to be tailored to realistic BB speed expectations in rural areas, then the video and audio quality will be abysmal. I expect BB speeds to improve over time in the UK and the USA and Europe, but there will still be significant markets where streaming and downloading are years away.

The situation will only become worse when 4K video, Atmos and any other technology which increases the amount of data needing to be transferred become more widely adopted. I see a huge discrepancy between the industry push to 4K on one hand and the desire for streaming and downloading on the other. 4K is being introduced because it brings substantial potential improvements in video quality, but with substantially increased file sizes. Streaming and downloading is touted as the future, but it is largely incompatible with those huge file sizes. So will we end up in a situation where people have spent considerable money in order to have a 4K TV or display, but all they can view on it will be low-quality, highly compressed content that can be downloaded on sub-optimal BB connections? Makes no sense to me.

All in all I conclude therefore that while Bluray might be the last physical format, it will be with us for many years, maybe even decades, to come.
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post #5179 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
I hope that FilmMixer will confirm or deny this when he--as presumably first on the block--gets his unit.
I expect that there have been a few one-off's for trade demos.

There is a new demo disc being prepared, and I am promised one as soon as they are available..
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Not everyone finds Onkyo Accu-EQ bad.
As many commenters have pointed out, some Onkyo models have had a troubled history for HDMI reliability. This is something we considered while writing this guide, but not something we’ve been able to pin down. Since Onkyo has been one of the best-selling AVR brands for many years, usually filling the top Best Seller spots at Amazon, there are a lot of them out there. Trying to determine if HDMI issues are something inherent to Onkyo because of a design flaw, or because they just sell more and have more reports, is something we can’t be certain
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post #5181 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Note that although this demo disc exists, it is not shipping with the X5200W units, or rather at least not with the USA units.
That sucks! For $2K, Denon should include the demo disc so that owners have at least a gnat's ass worth of Atmos content to try until Atmos BD's are available for purchase.
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post #5182 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 09:19 AM
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^^
Until then you can use the Dolby Surround setting to get an idea of the effect.

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post #5183 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Interesting. I hooked up a pair of Di5 DCs to my very high quality Class A amp, and fed it a CD from my equally high quality Naim CD player, and on careful listening to some vocal jazz I didn't detect any issues at all.
As you know or should know, the brand of equipment and class of amp (as long as it's a standard model with flat FR into an actual load, low noise, etc.) aren't relevant to this discussion. FWIW signal chain in my case is MacBook/iPhone/iPad wirelessly to Apple AirPort Express, APE used as DAC, minijack to RCA cable, Parasound Zamp v3, 14/4 CL3-rated copper (same as used in the living room). Basically just a standard extension system, nothing special at all.

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Have you been able to measure this 'audible resonance' at all? I guess I could hook up REW and do a temporary install of the Di5 in the HT, but In didn't because I didn't hear anything obviously untoward in my listening test.

How would you characterise the resonance you are hearing?
Try something with vocals. They have a bit of a nasal tinge to them. Not so offensive as to make them unlistenable, mind, but IMO better for background music than for a primary system.

They're speakers I had installed on my upstairs balcony so we could enjoy background music while sitting outside. I bought them because they were the biggest thing with concentric drivers (I don't use anything else - have a house full of speakers with concentric drivers by Tannoy, Pioneer/TAD, and KEF...) that would fit in the space without making my wife scream like the mention of installing my Tannoy i8AW's up there did. I didn't listen to them before they went up, let alone measure them.

However, I noticed a similar coloration a while back with the Tannoy Arena eggs I used to use as surrounds (atop the factory "tulip" stands) in my old DVD-A/SACD desktop/nearfield system (Tannoy System 8 NFM II LCR mains, DIY closed box sub with JBL W15GTi woofer) when I tried them in front. (As surrounds I didn't notice any issues.) Sound and Vision measured the Arena eggs, and their measurements show a spike between 1kHz and 2kHz that correlates well with what I hear from my balcony Di5DC's.


(top trace)

I suspect the Arena shares most of its driver innards* with the Di5DC.

For reference, this is the kind of axial and polar performance to which I'm acclimated:



*The basket is clearly different, as the Arena egg's whole front face is the driver mounting flange.

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post #5184 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 09:25 AM
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That sucks! For $2K, Denon should include the demo disc so that owners have at least a gnat's ass worth of Atmos content to try until Atmos BD's are available for purchase.
It sucks but I doubt it is Denon's fault. It's probably a rights management and IP issue. Those are enormously complex to arrange - look at the problems Dolby had when showing 'unathorised content' at their London demo. And that was material that had already been released a long time ago theatrically too - but Dolby needed a separate license to show it at their demos, which I assume has still not been negotiated. So many different people and organisations can be required to consent - the author of the original work, the studio, the distributor, the director, the producers, even some of the actors. So unless you want a disc with nothing more than Dolby trailers on it (and even there there could be problems), it will take some time to negotiate with all the parties and for all the different markets.

It may be significant that Hong Kong is the only place, as far as we know, that has a demo disc out. China has a rather 'different' view about copyright and IP than we are used to in the West
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post #5185 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 09:32 AM
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As you know or should know, the brand of equipment and class of amp (as long as it's a standard model with flat FR into an actual load, low noise, etc.) aren't relevant to this discussion.
Sure I mentioned the gear in the chain just so nobody might have come back with some sort of challenge that I used a 10 dollar Chinese disc player and a 1970s amp of uncertain quality and provenance

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Try something with vocals. They have a bit of a nasal tinge to them. Not so offensive as to make them unlistenable, mind, but IMO better for background music than for a primary system.
I did use vocals - always do for listening tests. On this occasion I used Eva Cassidy and Norah Jones as I find their voices are nicely pitched to show up problems, and as I am also familiar with the albums on a variety of systems.

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However, I noticed a similar coloration a while back with the Tannoy Arena eggs I used to use as surrounds (atop the factory "tulip" stands) in my old DVD-A/SACD desktop/nearfield system (Tannoy System 8 NFM II LCR mains, DIY closed box sub with JBL W15GTi woofer) when I tried them in front. (As surrounds I didn't notice any issues.) Sound and Vision measured the Arena eggs, and their measurements show a spike between 1kHz and 2kHz that correlates well with what I hear from my balcony Di5DC's.
Thanks. As I say, I didn’t notice it here - I'll perhaps try it again. I expect EQ will deal with a relatively small spike. If I get the chance next week I'll set them up in the HT and run some REW sweeps. I'm recovering from an unpleasant operation on my jaw and it has left me a bit lethargic, although I did just manage a 70 minute workout in my gym, so maybe I'm on the mend

EDIT: TBH, I don't think a small anomaly in the mid-range (or nasal tinge) is going to be much of a problem for Atmos ceiling speakers even if EQ can't deal with it.

Last edited by kbarnes701; 08-23-2014 at 09:42 AM.
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post #5186 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 09:35 AM
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The picture of the demo disc in the Japanese "review" of the 5200 showed a blue recording surface, not an aluminized one. In other words, it was not mass-produced.

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post #5187 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 09:39 AM
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In that world there probably aren't any BDs being released either. Everyone is using digital downloads instead. I just can't see them dropping DVDs when BDs will never gain the popularity that DVDs had. Plus Digital has already surpassed DVD and BD sales combined(Digital surpassed Disc sales for the first time in the first half of 2014. And digital sales are increasing much faster than BD sales). By the time BD sales surpass DVD sales, Digital will have left them both in the dust.

http://www.digital-digest.com/news-6...ses-Discs.html
Physical DVD and Blu-Ray are going the way of our local rental Video stores. ...Way of the dodo.
And that's a very good thing in a very material and greedy world. ...Big companies...

What I (we, very few) prefer personally has nothing to do with the world's current affairs (masses).
Because the Internet is faster becoming as materially greedy. ...Hi-res downloads that are NOT..

Methinks & all that jazz...

* And look @ UHD (4K), 3D, and TVs, and soundcards, and cars with CD heads.

Last edited by NorthSky; 08-23-2014 at 01:01 PM. Reason: ( )
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post #5188 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
The picture of the demo disc in the Japanese "review" of the 5200 showed a blue recording surface, not an aluminized one. In other words, it was not mass-produced.
Good catch, Sherlock So it was a pirated home-brew. Well, it was Hong Kong....
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post #5189 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
It sucks but I doubt it is Denon's fault. It's probably a rights management and IP issue. Those are enormously complex to arrange - look at the problems Dolby had when showing 'unathorised content' at their London demo. And that was material that had already been released a long time ago theatrically too - but Dolby needed a separate license to show it at their demos, which I assume has still not been negotiated. So many different people and organisations can be required to consent - the author of the original work, the studio, the distributor, the director, the producers, even some of the actors. So unless you want a disc with nothing more than Dolby trailers on it (and even there there could be problems), it will take some time to negotiate with all the parties and for all the different markets.

It may be significant that Hong Kong is the only place, as far as we know, that has a demo disc out. China has a rather 'different' view about copyright and IP than we are used to in the West
Perhaps it is unique to HK (China). Have to start checking ebay.com.hk and ebay.cn for Atmos content [mostly j/k]. One would think that with Dolby's status in "the industry", they would be able to legally arrange some publicly available Atmos demos with redistribution rights.


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Dolby, London weren't even aware of its existence. I told them that Dolby, Hong Kong had them, and that I'd seen pictures of them, and Dolby, London said they would 'look into it' and promised to send me one if they became available for the UK.
Hope you get it even if it's handed to you "under the table".

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How to Create a Dolby Atmos Demo Disc (post #15199)

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post #5190 of 27195 Old 08-23-2014, 09:50 AM
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All in all I conclude therefore that while Bluray might be the last physical format, it will be with us for many years, maybe even decades, to come.
...@ our Salvation Army stores and all, just like cassette and VHS tapes. ...And LPs and CDs.
...For people with CRT tube TVs and $2 turntables and without hi-speed, Ethernet, we-fee, bluetooth, DLNA.

Last edited by NorthSky; 08-23-2014 at 01:04 PM. Reason: ...
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