The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 5908 Old 07-07-2014, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
So what I do is position the side surrounds to fill in the space between the front left and right and the rear left and right. Awash in awesome surround sound-ness.
Most people with 7.1 set-ups start the surround field directly at their sides or slightly behind them, but you're using the 4 surround speakers to literally place your listening position inside the surround field. BTW, you're in good company, since that's how Floyd Toole lays out his 4 surround speakers.

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post #542 of 5908 Old 07-07-2014, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Yes. Some movies ARE mixed for the home. You've probably seen a Disney movie with a "Enhanced for Home Theater" mix. Or something to that effect. This is just an example but many other studios will do what is called a 'nearfield' mix for home video. The next difficult part is to follow the trail back to the studio mixing room where they may or may not have done the nearfield mix. It may have just been some alterations to the original theatrical track or a whole new mix done on conventional speakers that you or I would have and in a home theater type layout.
And here I thought there were standards for such things. Oh well.

In my mind this makes object-based audio even more appealing. The precise location of all your speakers is not very relevant (within reason) as long as the decoder knows exactly where they all are. This was great before, and now it's even better and makes even more sense.

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post #543 of 5908 Old 07-07-2014, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by bkeeler10 View Post
And here I thought there were standards for such things. Oh well.

In my mind this makes object-based audio even more appealing. The precise location of all your speakers is not very relevant (within reason) as long as the decoder knows exactly where they all are. This was great before, and now it's even better and makes even more sense.
As of yet, there doesn't seem to be any "reasonably" priced Atmos renderers that do this. It's all based on various fixed speaker locations due to limitations in the software and DSP chips being used.

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post #544 of 5908 Old 07-07-2014, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Most people with 7.1 set-ups start the surround field directly at their sides or slightly behind them, but you're using the 4 surround speakers to literally place your listening position inside the surround field. BTW, you're in good company, since that's how Floyd Toole lays out his 4 surround speakers.
Well thanks, bud! I got the idea from you.

Makes tons of sense when you think of it that way, to sit 'inside the surround field'. It works very well as long as surround use is not abysmal in the mix. Much more envelopment and less reliance for those highly tempting 'wides'.


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Originally Posted by bkeeler10 View Post
And here I thought there were standards for such things. Oh well.

In my mind this makes object-based audio even more appealing. The precise location of all your speakers is not very relevant (within reason) as long as the decoder knows exactly where they all are. This was great before, and now it's even better and makes even more sense.
Yes things will only sound better with time as more and more object audio tracks are released and as audio mixers get more adept at using these objects.

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post #545 of 5908 Old 07-07-2014, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Much more envelopment and less reliance for those highly tempting 'wides'.
I wouldn't turn down wides, but they are low on my priority list. Adding speaker pairs to the initial 5.1 layout, I would start with surround-back speakers, followed by front tops, then rear tops, finally wides.

I don't know whether I would place a pair of speakers between the L/C/R speakers up front, unless placing them at the edges of my TV did something useful related to screen size.

Bringing up wide speakers makes me wonder how Atmos will use them. Around ear level, Atmos has 7 bed channels that will be sent to 7 speakers. Are the wides only going to be there to smoothen object pan-throughs? Or is there some upmixing that will send channel information to the wides?

I've wondered the same thing about the optional Atmos layout with 5 speakers behind the screen in commercial theatres. Since there's only 3 channels up front, are the inbetween speakers only for the occasional object to pan through?

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post #546 of 5908 Old 07-07-2014, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
I wouldn't turn down wides, but they are low on my priority list. Adding speaker pairs to the initial 5.1 layout, I would start with surround-back speakers, followed by front tops, then rear tops, finally wides.

I don't know whether I would place a pair of speakers between the L/C/R speakers up front, unless placing them at the edges of my TV did something useful related to screen size.

Bringing up wide speakers makes me wonder how Atmos will use them. Around ear level, Atmos has 7 bed channels that will be sent to 7 speakers. Are the wides only going to be there to smoothen object pan-throughs? Or is there some upmixing that will send channel information to the wides?

I've wondered the same thing about the optional Atmos layout with 5 speakers behind the screen in commercial theatres. Since there's only 3 channels up front, are the inbetween speakers only for the occasional object to pan through?
They can either anchor or pan objects with the front wides and extra left/right screen speakers. Objects don't just pan, they can be stationary. Gravity's mixers put the dialog into objects so they could track it to where the characters were in the environment of a scene.

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post #547 of 5908 Old 07-07-2014, 05:41 PM
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I've posted around but are there any good links or diagrams for ideal Atmos speaker set up?

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post #548 of 5908 Old 07-07-2014, 06:20 PM
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An "ideal" ATMOS set-ups/possibilities is only coming over the horizon but there is no shortage of speculation,
looks like CE are aiming for 7.1.4 so there is a need for not only geometry wrt placement but have no doubt that there will be quite a few new speakers "recommended" for those "tops" wrt to dispersion and FR.
I had a good read over at "audioguru".


and its looks like an early contender out of the gate is a Marantz AV7702 as a pre/pro


you just need to amp 11 channels


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post #549 of 5908 Old 07-07-2014, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
I've posted around but are there any good links or diagrams for ideal Atmos speaker set up?
For cinema: http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolog...hite-paper.pdf


For home: Up for speculation. Subject to change.

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post #550 of 5908 Old 07-07-2014, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
I wouldn't turn down wides, but they are low on my priority list. Adding speaker pairs to the initial 5.1 layout, I would start with surround-back speakers, followed by front tops, then rear tops, finally wides.
Curious if by front tops you mean above L/R, or above the forward pair of surrounds.

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post #551 of 5908 Old 07-07-2014, 08:38 PM
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So I'm wanting to change my current 7.2 setup to a 7.2.4 Atmos configuration with the 4 ceiling speakers.
My questions are...is Marantz my only choice for this many speakers or will the top of the line Pioneer work?
Also, best positioning for the 4 ceilings - 2 in front of center stage and 2 behind? 2 in front and 2 right over head? Any advice there?
Also, should the ceiling speakers be firing at a certain angle or straight down?
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post #552 of 5908 Old 07-07-2014, 08:39 PM
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the front tops would be the 'on the ceiling" mol and in front of the MLP and rear tops would be behind

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post #553 of 5908 Old 07-07-2014, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Curious if by front tops you mean above L/R, or above the forward pair of surrounds.
The ones highlighted in yellow:


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post #554 of 5908 Old 07-07-2014, 09:26 PM
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What if the mlp is against the back wall?


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post #555 of 5908 Old 07-07-2014, 09:32 PM
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What if the mlp is against the back wall?
According to the diagram you can do a single pair of top middle speakers anywhere from directly above you to 25 degrees forward of the MLP.
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post #556 of 5908 Old 07-07-2014, 10:19 PM
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This is one other exchange removed from the XMC-1 thread.

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Regardless you can count on the fact that they have figured out how to get from the cinema to the home without throwing anything away.
It can be said that a 5.1 presentation of an Atmos mix does not throw anything away, as every sound in the original soundtrack remains present. Is that how you mean it here? I would agree with that statement.

However, some folks playing the 5.1 version might say having no objects would be throwing something (undefined) away.
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post #557 of 5908 Old 07-07-2014, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
This is one other exchange removed from the XMC-1 thread.

It can be said that a 5.1 presentation of an Atmos mix does not throw anything away, as every sound in the original soundtrack remains present. Is that how you mean it here? I would agree with that statement.
No... that is not what I mean.

People are getting caught up in the maximum number of objects the codec will support.

There are other ways to whittle down the sheer number of objects outside of rendering them into a bed while still maintaining the intended artistic presentation.
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post #558 of 5908 Old 07-07-2014, 10:38 PM
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People are getting caught up in the maximum number of objects the codec will support.

There are other ways to whittle down the sheer number of objects outside of rendering them into a bed while still maintaining the intended artistic presentation.
I was hoping your answer would be in that vein!
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post #559 of 5908 Old 07-07-2014, 11:01 PM
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I like that answer, as the recommended elevation of 45 deg DSX heights falls within that range, and is where I have them.

Am I correct that so far none of the mainstream receivers or pre/pro's discussed so far have provisions for Atmos 13.x with Wides?

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The ones highlighted in yellow:


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post #560 of 5908 Old 07-07-2014, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
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I like that answer, as the recommended elevation of 45 deg DSX heights falls within that range, and is where I have them.

Am I correct that so far none of the mainstream receivers or pre/pro's discussed so far have provisions for Atmos 13.x with Wides?
Unless there are more announcements... none that I know of outside of some super-duper expensive hot rod pre-amp.

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post #561 of 5908 Old 07-07-2014, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Am I correct that so far none of the mainstream receivers or pre/pro's discussed so far have provisions for Atmos 13.x with Wides?
Not 13.1 but Onkyo's dedicated Atmos page does mention an 11.1 set-up that includes wides. However, they are the only manufacturer mentioning a 9.1.2 configuration, making me wonder if they are mistaken about wides.

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post #562 of 5908 Old 07-07-2014, 11:47 PM
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post #563 of 5908 Old 07-08-2014, 04:52 AM
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Is there a need to timber match the height speakers?
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post #564 of 5908 Old 07-08-2014, 06:13 AM
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Is there a need to timber match the height speakers?
Only if you want sounds to remain consistent when they pan up.
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post #565 of 5908 Old 07-08-2014, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Not 13.1 but Onkyo's dedicated Atmos page does mention an 11.1 set-up that includes wides. However, they are the only manufacturer mentioning a 9.1.2 configuration, making me wonder if they are mistaken about wides.
D&M has now confirmed that a 9.1.2 (w/Front Wides + top middle) will be an available Atmos configuration on the Denon X5200W/X7200W and Marantz AV7702/SR7009/AV8802.

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post #566 of 5908 Old 07-08-2014, 07:20 AM
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Am I the only one thinking that we should wait until object based processing is finally available before we jump in headfirst and regret buying something that is obsolete in 6 months?
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post #567 of 5908 Old 07-08-2014, 07:31 AM
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^ Nope.

I will probably wait to see what the second generation of Atmos receivers/pre-pros are equipped with. And to see how the first generation goes and what people think of it.

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post #568 of 5908 Old 07-08-2014, 07:33 AM
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It depends on whether you're the kind of person who clings obsessively to the same hardware for a decade, or if you fritter away your money on a new model every year.
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post #569 of 5908 Old 07-08-2014, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkeeler10 View Post
And here I thought there were standards for such things. Oh well.

In my mind this makes object-based audio even more appealing. The precise location of all your speakers is not very relevant (within reason) as long as the decoder knows exactly where they all are. This was great before, and now it's even better and makes even more sense.
Unfortunately, in the current list of Atmos-enabled AVRs announced, they will not have any way of knowing where the speakers are. That is, they will not be measuring azimuth and elevation angles and do not have any way to input the info manually. You just have to put the speakers in the 'right' places, as we have always done.
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post #570 of 5908 Old 07-08-2014, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Unfortunately, in the current list of Atmos-enabled AVRs announced, they will not have any way of knowing where the speakers are. That is, they will not be measuring azimuth and elevation angles and do not have any way to input the info manually. You just have to put the speakers in the 'right' places, as we have always done.
Yet isn't DTS claiming they can do object based audio with much less processing power?

I was all excited about the new Pioneer AVRs with Atmos until I found out like the rest they won't be object based.
No worries, I'll just sit back and read about the early adopter's trials and tribulations.
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