The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 199 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5941 of 26300 Old 08-31-2014, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by westmd View Post
Sorry I don't get that!
You posted a link from 3 months ago saying that Sound Developments would be demonstrating the Storm Audio SSP-163D at CEDIA. I posted a more recent link saying that Sound Developments will be demonstrating the Trinnov Altitude32 at CEDIA.

If you go to Storm Audio's website, you'll notice that Sound Developments is no longer listed as a distributor. Storm doesn't currently list a distributor for the Americas. They won't be at CEDIA.

Sanjay
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post #5942 of 26300 Old 08-31-2014, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
You posted a link from 3 months ago saying that Sound Developments would be demonstrating the Storm Audio SSP-163D at CEDIA. I posted a more recent link saying that Sound Developments will be demonstrating the Trinnov Altitude32 at CEDIA.

If you go to Storm Audio's website, you'll notice that Sound Developments is no longer listed as a distributor. Storm doesn't currently list a distributor for the Americas. They won't be at CEDIA.
Thanks for the clarification!
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post #5943 of 26300 Old 08-31-2014, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post
Let me rephrase, i'm asking if Dolby has provided the complete package of info to the manufacturers and the manufacturers have decided what is included in 1st generation product and what they will implement in 2nd generation.

Or, does Dolby continue to develop home Atmos and provide more intel to the manufacturers meaning what we will see in future generation product is dependent on what intel Dolby provides to the manufacturers.
Considering that Trinnov has already announced a 32 channel processor, I think it's safe to conclude that the codec can support it's maximum outputs at this point in time...

But for anyone to speculate what Dolby and it's CE's share is foolish...

The objective evidence so far is that these first generation "mass" market AVR's are all simple progressions of the manufacturers current lineups.. nothing new, of note, in any of them except Atmos and DS.

Outside of the obvious requirements (chipsets, minimum performance benchmarks, etc..) to include Atmos, I don't think Dolby tells any of their licensees what or how to develop their products.
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post #5944 of 26300 Old 08-31-2014, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post
ONE extra foot of ceiling height results in a TWO foot longer travel distance from speaker to MLP. The speed of sound is (approx) 1,125 ft/s, so the adjustment seems like it should be 2 ms per additional foot of ceiling height...?!
_
Unless the sound is going up vertically, the distance is more than 2 feet. If it is hitting the ceiling at 30 degrees, the additional travel distance should be 2+2 feet.

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post #5945 of 26300 Old 08-31-2014, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post
Let me rephrase, i'm asking if Dolby has provided the complete package of info to the manufacturers and the manufacturers have decided what is included in 1st generation product and what they will implement in 2nd generation.

Or, does Dolby continue to develop home Atmos and provide more intel to the manufacturers meaning what we will see in future generation product is dependent on what intel Dolby provides to the manufacturers.

All the data for Atmos has been released to manufacturers and media distributors, as far as I know. It is now up to them as to which features and how many speaker/sub outputs they will include in what models as long as what they do include meets specs. Dolby has no interest in updating Atmos at this time. The R&D is finished and they'll probably go on to something else to stay frosty.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!

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post #5946 of 26300 Old 08-31-2014, 04:53 PM
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My apologies in advance if I'm posting this in the wrong thread but will any of the first iterations of Dolby Atmos receivers and pre/pros be able to process more than 4 over head speakers in a 7.2.x setup?
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post #5947 of 26300 Old 08-31-2014, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Mre_man View Post
My apologies in advance if I'm posting this in the wrong thread but will any of the first iterations of Dolby Atmos receivers and pre/pros be able to process more than 4 over head speakers in a 7.2.x setup?
Yes.. the Trinnov Altitude... at a cost.
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post #5948 of 26300 Old 08-31-2014, 05:16 PM
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All this talk about monopoles, dipoles and bipoles have had me rethinking my side surround speaker choice. I was going to with these MartinLogan FX2's:


But now I'm thinking of going with Motion 15 or Motion 35XT's:



I take it these traditional monopole speakers would be better at helping Atmos create pinpoint 3D sound, correct?

Should I get the 15 or 35XT? For some reason the cheaper 15 has more dispersion (80x80 vs 80x30), not sure if it's too much dispersion for Atmos. The more expensive 35XT goes down more (50 hz vs 60) and has a lower crossover (2,200 hz vs 2,700 hz), but does that matter if you have a subwoofer crossed at 80? The full specs are here:

http://www.martinlogan.com/motionSeries/specs.php

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post #5949 of 26300 Old 08-31-2014, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by SubSolar View Post
All this talk about monopoles, dipoles and bipoles have had me rethinking my side surround speaker choice. I was going to with these MartinLogan FX2's:


But now I'm thinking of going with Motion 15 or Motion 35XT's:



I take it these traditional monopole speakers would be better at helping Atmos create pinpoint 3D sound, correct?

Should I get the 15 or 35XT? For some reason the cheaper 15 has more dispersion (80x80 vs 80x30), not sure if it's too much dispersion for Atmos. The more expensive 35XT goes down more (50 hz vs 60) and has a lower crossover (2,200 hz vs 2,700 hz), but does that matter if you have a subwoofer crossed at 80? The full specs are here:

http://www.martinlogan.com/motionSeries/specs.php
I read somewhere inDolby's white papers that wide dispersion speakers is recommended for use with Dolby Atmos
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post #5950 of 26300 Old 08-31-2014, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post
ONE extra foot of ceiling height results in a TWO foot longer travel distance from speaker to MLP.
Adding 1 foot of ceiling height adds 2 feet in travel only if the listener is co-located with the upfiring speaker. If one sits some 8' away, the path reflects off the ceiling at an angle. The path length increases more like 18" and that adds 1.3 ms to the trip. ChrisK was right about adding 1 ms.

OTOH, his statement: >>The information from these speakers is ambient and not used for imaging.<< is demonstrably incorrect based on Atmos movie mixes.

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post #5951 of 26300 Old 08-31-2014, 11:48 PM
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If I would install in ceiling speakers in the rear and in the front according to the famous diagram would I then also good to go for Auro or do I need a different setup?
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post #5952 of 26300 Old 09-01-2014, 01:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by richmagnus View Post
I disagree. Tri polar speakers work extremely well as surround speakers. Far better than monopoles IMO.
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Maybe to you. However, as per Dolby and DTS recommendations, they only recommend monopoles.
Are we talking surround arrays or single surround speakers? Movie theaters use arrays and single omni-like surrounds at home are probably closer to the more diffuse presentation of those arrays.

Atmos objects on the other hand call for speakers with higher directivity.

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post #5953 of 26300 Old 09-01-2014, 01:55 AM
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Would this Klipsch KS 7502 be ok to use as ceiling speaker in a Dolby Atmos set up??
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post #5954 of 26300 Old 09-01-2014, 03:16 AM
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Would it had a benefit if I would PEQ my two subwoofer separatly? They are in an absolute symetrical position (below the left and right front speaker) . E.g. When using the Trinnov I could assign one output to the left and one output to the right or I could go with a Y-adapter and can connect both subs to it!
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post #5955 of 26300 Old 09-01-2014, 03:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Would it had a benefit if I would PEQ my two subwoofer separatly?
Theoratically yes, but there's no easy procedure to do this by hand. Simply EQ them as one unit.

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post #5956 of 26300 Old 09-01-2014, 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
OTOH, his statement: >>The information from these speakers is ambient and not used for imaging.<< is demonstrably incorrect based on Atmos movie mixes.
I raised the same point. Don't you find it disturbing that the CTO of Audyssey doesn't understand how Atmos works, yet at the same time they (Audyssey) are implementing special algorithms to cater for Atmos?
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post #5957 of 26300 Old 09-01-2014, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by westmd View Post
If I would install in ceiling speakers in the rear and in the front according to the famous diagram would I then also good to go for Auro or do I need a different setup?
My guess is that such a setup could work for Auro-3d as long as the elevation angles stay below 40 degrees and the speakers are not firing straight down but slightly overhead MLP.
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post #5958 of 26300 Old 09-01-2014, 07:20 AM
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Pre-Pro question - I currently have a 7.1 amplifier in a 7.1 speaker setup. For my smaller man cave, I can see adding four height speakers, maximum, for a Dolby Atmos configuration.

I believe I will need a pre that can handle Dolby Atmos processing. Can I still use my 7.1 amplifier or do I need the equivalent power per channel? Will this be discrete channels (not matrixed)?

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post #5959 of 26300 Old 09-01-2014, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mre_man View Post
My apologies in advance if I'm posting this in the wrong thread but will any of the first iterations of Dolby Atmos receivers and pre/pros be able to process more than 4 over head speakers in a 7.2.x setup?
I'm not sure if the Marantz AV8802 Prepro (13.2 channels) will allow to reconfigure the wide pair to a third height pair. If so, you could decode 7.1.6 with it.
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post #5960 of 26300 Old 09-01-2014, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
Pre-Pro question - I currently have a 7.1 amplifier in a 7.1 speaker setup. For my smaller man cave, I can see adding four height speakers, maximum, for a Dolby Atmos configuration.

I believe I will need a pre that can handle Dolby Atmos processing. Can I still use my 7.1 amplifier or do I need the equivalent power per channel? Will this be discrete channels (not matrixed)?
You need a new pre-pro that will decode Atmos, one that allows for a 7.1.4 configuration. Those are the top of the line models currently. I've never heard of a 7.1 amplifier specifically. Do you mean a multi-channel amplifier that handles seven channels or do you mean you have a 7.1 receiver already?

You'll need an additional five channel amp and then use four to power the ceiling speakers.

Dolby Atmos uses discrete outputs, up to 34. This is not a matrixed format.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!

Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 09-01-2014 at 09:18 AM.
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post #5961 of 26300 Old 09-01-2014, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by scarabaeus View Post
I'm not sure if the Marantz AV8802 Prepro (13.2 channels) will allow to reconfigure the wide pair to a third height pair. If so, you could decode 7.1.6 with it.
From everything I've read, it seems like all the Atmos renderers attached to the big electronics manufacturers are limited at up to 7.1.4. Probably because they shoe-horned Atmos into already designed 7.1/9.1/11.1 models for their 2014 lines.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!

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post #5962 of 26300 Old 09-01-2014, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
I raised the same point. Don't you find it disturbing that the CTO of Audyssey doesn't understand how Atmos works, yet at the same time they (Audyssey) are implementing special algorithms to cater for Atmos?
To be fair, all he had to do was meet a Dolby spec for a target curve. It's not like he had to change the fundamental algorithm of MultEQ.

There is some additional discussion on Facebook (Feri asked him about his comment pointing out that objects render in 3D) and Chris seems to be slipping into his coy mode. I asked him if he'd heard an Atmos demo and he said he had, but didn't volunteer any more info. I'm wondering if he just doesn't like Atmos but is being circumspect in order to not piss off any partners.

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post #5963 of 26300 Old 09-01-2014, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
Pre-Pro question - I currently have a 7.1 amplifier in a 7.1 speaker setup. For my smaller man cave, I can see adding four height speakers, maximum, for a Dolby Atmos configuration.

I believe I will need a pre that can handle Dolby Atmos processing. Can I still use my 7.1 amplifier or do I need the equivalent power per channel? Will this be discrete channels (not matrixed)?
Use your 7.1 amp and add an additional 2ch amp for 7.1.2 or two, for 7.1.4. I use more powerful amps across the front (300 watt), where most of the heavy lifting is done, with 200 watt amps for the current surround channels, and also for the upcoming Atmos speakers on my ceiling. I have never encountered a situation where this has not been enough. (All power specs into 4 ohm loads).
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post #5964 of 26300 Old 09-01-2014, 09:13 AM
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You need a new pre-pro that will decode Atmos, one that allows for a 7.1.4 configuration. Those are the top of the line models currently. I've never heard of a 7.1 amplifier specifically. Do you mean a multi-channel amplifier that handles seven channels?

You'll need an additional five channel amp and then use four to power the ceiling speakers.

Dolby Atmos uses discrete outputs, up to 34. This is not a matrixed format.
He's already got a 7 channel amp. Or does he mean a 7 channel AVR? If he already has a 7 channel amp, then he only needs 4 additional channels of amplification.

If he means he has a 7 channel AVR, then that will have to go when he upgrades to Atmos, so I am not sure what he means, on reflection. If he buys, for example, the Denon X5200W, which is a 9 channel AVR, then he will need 4 more channels of amplification on top.

Or does he mean he wants to use an existing 7.1 AVR as the amp with a new Atmos processor?

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post #5965 of 26300 Old 09-01-2014, 09:16 AM
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To be fair, all he had to do was meet a Dolby spec for a target curve. It's not like he had to change the fundamental algorithm of MultEQ.
True - I wasn't hinting that the Audyssey implementation will be flawed - just that I am surprised that a CTO of a company involved in room EQ for Atmos units apparently doesn't know that Atmos speakers are used for imaging. Maybe he should never have left AVS

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There is some additional discussion on Facebook (Feri asked him about his comment pointing out that objects render in 3D) and Chris seems to be slipping into his coy mode. I asked him if he'd heard an Atmos demo and he said he had, but didn't volunteer any more info. I'm wondering if he just doesn't like Atmos but is being circumspect in order to not piss off any partners.
If he has heard an Atmos demo I am even more surprised that he doesn't know that Atmos speakers are for imaging!
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post #5966 of 26300 Old 09-01-2014, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
He's already got a 7 channel amp. Or does he mean a 7 channel AVR? If he already has a 7 channel amp, then he only needs 4 additional channels of amplification.

If he means he has a 7 channel AVR, then that will have to go when he upgrades to Atmos, so I am not sure what he means, on reflection. If he buys, for example, the Denon X5200W, which is a 9 channel AVR, then he will need 4 more channels of amplification on top.

Or does he mean he wants to use an existing 7.1 AVR as the amp with a new Atmos processor?

Yeah, that's what I was trying to verify in my previous post. I've never heard of a 7.1 amplifier.

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post #5967 of 26300 Old 09-01-2014, 09:22 AM
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Yeah, that's what I was trying to verify in my previous post. I've never heard of a 7.1 amplifier.
Quite - that slipped under my radar. I think between us we have covered all eventualities. Maybe he will come back and clarify...
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post #5968 of 26300 Old 09-01-2014, 09:25 AM
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Yeah, that's what I was trying to verify in my previous post. I've never heard of a 7.1 amplifier.
Whoops - sorry about that. I meant a 7 channel amplifier - 7.1 configuration. (Teeny amp for the .1 )

My setup is as follows - Wyred4Sound 7.1 MMC (Seven channels - 221 wpc) - a Pioneer SC65 being used as a "Pre-Amp" with the Pioneer amp turned off.

Instead of buying a new receiver, is it possible to have a Dolby Atmos decoder or something in the chain where I can turn on the Pioneer amp and use that for the new 4 Atmos speakers in a 7.1.4 configuration with the Wyred4Sound amplifer?

I'm trying to visualize the best solution that's also cost effective.

Much thanks - Rico.

Home Theater Setup
Samsung UN65ES8000 LCD/LED
BenQ W1080ST Projector
Pioneer SC65 (Pre-Amp)
Wyred4Sound MMC-7 Channel Amplifier, 221wpc
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Darbee Darblet
ALL Paradigm - 7.1 - Studio 60's, V.2 (FL/FR)
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post #5969 of 26300 Old 09-01-2014, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
Whoops - sorry about that. I meant a 7 channel amplifier - 7.1 configuration. (Teeny amp for the .1 )

My setup is as follows - Wyred4Sound 7.1 MMC (Seven channels - 220 wpc) - a Pioneer SC65 being used as a "Pre-Amp" with the Pioneer amp turned off.

Instead of buying a new receiver, is it possible to have a Dolby Atmos decoder or something in the chain where I can turn on the Pioneer amp and use that for the new 4 Atmos speakers in a 7.1.4 configuration with the Wyred4Sound amplifer?

I'm trying to visualize the best solution that's also cost effective.

Much thanks - Rico.
I can only see it working if you have multi-channel analog inputs on your SC65 and put it in PURE or DIRECT MODE and power your four ceiling speakers with its amps. However, that would be a b--ch to try and calibrate and level match. You would still need a 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos pre-pro. Not exactly cheap, but if you have the funds...

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post #5970 of 26300 Old 09-01-2014, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
Whoops - sorry about that. I meant a 7 channel amplifier - 7.1 configuration. (Teeny amp for the .1 )

My setup is as follows - Wyred4Sound 7.1 MMC (Seven channels - 221 wpc) - a Pioneer SC65 being used as a "Pre-Amp" with the Pioneer amp turned off.

Instead of buying a new receiver, is it possible to have a Dolby Atmos decoder or something in the chain where I can turn on the Pioneer amp and use that for the new 4 Atmos speakers in a 7.1.4 configuration with the Wyred4Sound amplifer?

I'm trying to visualize the best solution that's also cost effective.

Much thanks - Rico.
You can keep your 7 channel amp and buy an Atmos processor, but the cheapest option is to buy an Atmos AVR. This will then give you 7 or 9 'spare' channels of amplification, so with your current 7 channel amp, you will have 14 or 16 amp channels in total to play with (more than you need) by mixing and matching them. That is the lowest cost option.
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