The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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Receivers, Amps, and Processors > The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version)
wse's Avatar wse 10:41 PM 06-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaJoJo View Post
not perse, the disney studio's allready have adopted auro-3D and some other studio's as well. the avr supporting this are going to be a bit more expensive then atmos i'm afraid. i've heard both and i favor the auro-3D.
Never heard AURO 3D I have multiple cinemas around my house where ATMOS is playing no AURO 3Ds! I am looking to hear both at home before I judge which one is best to my ears

DaJoJo's Avatar DaJoJo 10:45 PM 06-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post
AURO 3D is dead in the US! Unless you have $20,000 and get a DATASAT
Remember Betamax vs VHS; HD DVD vs Blu Ray; SACD vs DVD Audio well that one is not a good comparison except for classical music
lol
no they are going to implement it in new avr in the next year.. thing is atmos and auro-3D are allready in a device where i haven't seen a dts uhd yet.. they probably going to coexist and we see one going to go out of the market.. then again its all mostly based on what content is comming to the consumer.
Dan Hitchman's Avatar Dan Hitchman 10:46 PM 06-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaJoJo View Post
not perse, the disney studio's allready have adopted auro-3D and some other studio's as well. the avr supporting this are going to be a bit more expensive then atmos i'm afraid. i've heard both and i favor the auro-3D.
edit: didn't see the added text.. but yes i like dts too. especially the higher bitrate and clearer sound of it.
Dolby and DTS both have more clout and the SMPTE seems more interested in object based surround.

Auro3D doesn't have the greatest audio resolution either. Some of their add on channels are only 8 bit.
DaJoJo's Avatar DaJoJo 10:48 PM 06-23-2014
oh we don't even have theaters with atmos or auro-3D here but we have stassen hifi and they have a really nice state of the art listening room. both atmos and auro-3D is for me like going from a 5.1 dolby pro logic to a dts hd setup, it's mindblowing what they did with the surroundsound.
well it might be that it has 8bit channels but it has 3 layer sound and this makes a little difference. i also wonder in how far the speakermanufacturers are comming with these atmos settop speakers which are used instead of a ceiling one. the atmos has 64 or more speaker ability but only 16 channel can be used on bluray. the auro-3D has a standard 11.1 setup . so there are pro's and cons for both systems but they gonna change movie watching to a higher level then we used to. allready looking for a way to put a RS-62II on the ceiling :-)
wse's Avatar wse 10:50 PM 06-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaJoJo View Post
lol
no they are going to implement it in new avr in the next year.. thing is atmos and auro-3D are allready in a device where i haven't seen a dts uhd yet.. they probably going to coexist and we see one going to go out of the market.. then again its all mostly based on what content is comming to the consumer.
To date DTS Master HD rules for Blu Ray, but if Dolby is out this year with ATMOS, DTS will have to play catch-up! Not a good thing plus DTS will have to compete with this list

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/...ir-atmosmovies
DRaven72's Avatar DRaven72 10:50 PM 06-23-2014
I get to cut holes in the ceiling justifiably! Oh I was looking for a reason to put a couple of ML Helos 12's and upgrade my receiver. Thank you Dolby Atmos.
Dan Hitchman's Avatar Dan Hitchman 11:00 PM 06-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post
To date DTS Master HD rules for Blu Ray, but if Dolby is out this year with ATMOS, DTS will have to play catch-up! Not a good thing plus DTS will have to compete with this list

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/...ir-atmosmovies
Not really, it's the same idea as a movie coming out on Blu-ray encoded as TrueHD or Master Audio. Both companies probably have converter software that will go from Atmos to MDA or vice versa. Most of these files are PCM to start with anyway. It's the object and metadata files that have to be fixed.

Then they downconvert the master track as necessary.
Schwa's Avatar Schwa 11:01 PM 06-23-2014
In a way I'm surprised DTS-UHD wasn't announced at the same time as Atmos; DTS was demoing a single chip-based decoder at CES. Maybe they're waiting on more studio support or next-gen optical discs to make their move...
DaJoJo's Avatar DaJoJo 11:03 PM 06-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post
To date DTS Master HD rules for Blu Ray, but if Dolby is out this year with ATMOS, DTS will have to play catch-up! Not a good thing plus DTS will have to compete with this list http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/...ir-atmosmovies
yup it does. i wonder in how far they going to keep the 5.1 base for this new dts uhd so it can still be played on a older avr with only dts. that was imho one of the good things of it. i hope they come up with something nice as most movies i watch have dts sound. it's why i want to wait to buy a new avr so i can get one which does all the formats and be done with it for the next 10 years at least.
DaJoJo's Avatar DaJoJo 11:12 PM 06-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post
In a way I'm surprised DTS-UHD wasn't announced at the same time as Atmos; DTS was demoing a single chip-based decoder at CES. Maybe they're waiting on more studio support or next-gen optical discs to make their move...
there are 100GB bluray discs comming within a couple of years, but it requires a new bluray player. then there are endless possibilities and they can put more audiotracks on it as well. i don't think dts is going to wait for that though. being early adopter isn't allways the wisest thing to do and there is not yet a big market for dts uhd/atmos/auro-3D formats.
markus767's Avatar markus767 12:50 AM 06-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post
JD at AVS said that Atmos is the home wouldn't measure the precise locations of your speakers:

As the Atmos focus will be on the "ceiling speakers", there will be no additional angle information at all ... rather simply that the speakers will be identified as either "top front", "top middle", or "top rear" (based on the previously posted 4 configurations) and then Audyssey will do its thing just as it does with the traditional 5.1/7.1 setup.

All along I thought that half the point of Atmos was to allow for some speaker placement flexibility while simultaneously allowing for far more accurate placement of audio objects. If the home Atmos processor doesn't know the precise locations of your speakers, and just assumes their positions based on your generic layout, then other than the ceiling speakers, what makes home Atmos better than theatrical Atmos down-mixed to a channel-based mix for HT?
If we don't get any objects then Atmos for the home isn't ready for prime time yet. It will be just another industry attempt to sell new and more gear.
Schwa's Avatar Schwa 01:12 AM 06-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
If we don't get any objects then Atmos for the home isn't ready for prime time yet. It will be just another industry attempt to sell new and more gear.
We might be (and probably are) getting some objects, but what we're not getting is a setup routine that allows the receiver/processor to calculate precisely where the speakers are located (besides their straight-line distance from the MLP). So, the receiver/processor must therefore use a pre-defined set of locations based on the generic positions you tell it your speakers are in (i.e. "7.2.2 with side and rear surrounds and middle in-ceiling speakers"). If your actual speaker locations correspond to the pre-defined locations (and I doubt we'll ever know what those are with a significant degree of precision), you're all set. But if not, then you're not getting all that object-based audio has to offer since the audio objects' positions as defined by the film mixer won't map properly to the physical space in your room because your speakers are in the "wrong" locations. Maybe if you get your speakers close to the recommended locations it won't matter much, but it seems this wouldn't be a big improvement (at least in playback, mixing might be easier) compared to the channel-based systems we already have.

At least this is the way I understand it.

And maybe the only objects we're getting will be those that involve overhead locations because it's been reported that Atmos will be of zero benefit for legacy 5.x/7.x systems. After all, the only thing that today's blog post from Dolby really highlights is the height aspect of Atmos. There's much more to theatrical Atmos than height. Maybe that's not so true with Atmos at home.

FWIW all my comments are based on what's been said about Denon's Atmos units. I assume that the Onkyo, Integra, and Pioneer models will function similarly.

Hopefully Dolby will publish something soon that explains what home Atmos does and doesn't do. Right now we're just guessing based on the very limited info that's been released. But based on what we do know, one of the promises of object-based audio...namely, the ability of the processor to precisely and accurately position audio objects in 3D space despite non-traditional/non-standard speaker layouts...won't be realized.
Otium's Avatar Otium 01:59 AM 06-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post
Yamaha will have (3) AVRs with Dolby Atmos...
Will be shown @IFA and CEDIA, ship late-September....

Just my $0.05...
Great! My HT is 15 years old. So, I decided to upgrade the sound and the projector. A month ago I bought Yamaha A3030 receiver thinking that Atmos will not happen for home use any time soon. Should have waited a little longer. Now I am afraid to get a new PJ for the fear that someone will come up with the 21:9 chip as soon as I buy a 16:9 unit.
markus767's Avatar markus767 02:09 AM 06-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post
Hopefully Dolby will publish something soon that explains what home Atmos does and doesn't do.
I hope so too. Current information suggests that Atmos for consumers will be a channel-based downmixed version. Height information might even be matrixed into other channels *shudder* so it would fit into 8 channels of the current Blu-ray specs.
joerod's Avatar joerod 03:11 AM 06-24-2014
I guess I will obviously A/B but I am stuck between doing 5.1.4 or 7.1.2. ()

I have 4 in my ceiling actually positioned nicely. Two for heights and two for sides/surrounds. So wonder which will be optimal? Treat the room as 7 then just add two Atmos heights or treat it as a traditional 5 speaker set up then add 4???


JediFonger's Avatar JediFonger 06:53 AM 06-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post
I guess I will obviously A/B but I am stuck between doing 5.1.4 or 7.1.2. (:eek)

I have 4 in my ceiling actually positioned nicely. Two for heights and two for sides/surrounds. So wonder which will be optimal? Treat the room as 7 then just add two Atmos heights or treat it as a traditional 5 speaker set up then add 4???

re: mixdowns.

i'm hoping that Dolby partners with audyssey/similar tech or Dolby rolls out their own microphone measuring system. that way they will know exactly where the speaker is in relation to the screen. if it's not in the 1st generation, it will surely be coming in future generations.

secondly, i posted this elsewhere... but i guess this is the thread where all atmos discussions are. with atmos coming home, it doesn't make sense to sell AVRs anymore. think about it. you buy this new AVR and you will be limited by what you can do. say you move and your room no longer accepts your previous house's speaker arrangements. it's time to "decouple" amps from preamp/processors.

it's time to make a processor that'll take the atmos signal allow that processor to daisy chain to unlimited amount of speakers. so if a rich guy at home wants 24speakers anywhere he wants, he will get it and atmos will work beautifully just like in the commercial theaters. i dont know how the physically connection works... but the hw mfr will need to figure that out,. whether the control is at the processor level or maybe output that entirely to a 'primary steering logic amp controller' then that thing controls however many speakers you want installed.

this is exciting times for home movie viewing! that's for sure, i haven't seen this type of buzz since Dolby Digital 5.1 discrete first came home!
Dan Hitchman's Avatar Dan Hitchman 08:26 AM 06-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
I hope so too. Current information suggests that Atmos for consumers will be a channel-based downmixed version. Height information might even be matrixed into other channels *shudder* so it would fit into 8 channels of the current Blu-ray specs.
It's possible that there aren't any real objects, just an extension of two more channels. Making it effectively a 9.1 channel format. Remember, both TrueHD and Master Audio use a core + extension model. That's probably why they can add it to existing Blu-ray's. Atmos' channel beds can be 7.1 or 9.1. 7.1 + 2 overheads.

I hope that's not the case and there is more to it than that, but you never know.
Dan Hitchman's Avatar Dan Hitchman 08:29 AM 06-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post
re: mixdowns.

i'm hoping that Dolby partners with audyssey/similar tech or Dolby rolls out their own microphone measuring system. that way they will know exactly where the speaker is in relation to the screen. if it's not in the 1st generation, it will surely be coming in future generations.

secondly, i posted this elsewhere... but i guess this is the thread where all atmos discussions are. with atmos coming home, it doesn't make sense to sell AVRs anymore. think about it. you buy this new AVR and you will be limited by what you can do. say you move and your room no longer accepts your previous house's speaker arrangements. it's time to "decouple" amps from preamp/processors.

it's time to make a processor that'll take the atmos signal allow that processor to daisy chain to unlimited amount of speakers. so if a rich guy at home wants 24speakers anywhere he wants, he will get it and atmos will work beautifully just like in the commercial theaters. i dont know how the physically connection works... but the hw mfr will need to figure that out,. whether the control is at the processor level or maybe output that entirely to a 'primary steering logic amp controller' then that thing controls however many speakers you want installed.

this is exciting times for home movie viewing! that's for sure, i haven't seen this type of buzz since Dolby Digital 5.1 discrete first came home!
I've said this too. Dolby Atmos and DTS MDA need to usher in a more modular approach to home theater equipment design. However, the data has to be on the soundtrack for expandability or this is all moot.
JediFonger's Avatar JediFonger 08:37 AM 06-24-2014
let's hope we get all the objects... otherwise they shouldn't call this atmos... but "mood" ;P
markus767's Avatar markus767 09:22 AM 06-24-2014
^
We won't get 118 simultaneous objects, that's for sure - way too much data.
SoundChex's Avatar SoundChex 10:12 AM 06-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
We won't get 118 simultaneous objects, that's for sure - way too much data.

Perhaps something similar to the 7.1 + 4 Height Channels + 4 Objects format supported by the new "Fraunhofer Interactive 3D Audio System for Television Broadcasting" (link) . . . which it appears has been chosen as the "channels-based & hybrid channels|objects-based" component of the forthcoming MPEG-H 3D Audio standard (which itself will presumably be a finalist for the ATSC 3.0 TV audio codec...?)
_
SoundChex's Avatar SoundChex 11:52 AM 06-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post
Yamaha will have (3) AVRs with Dolby Atmos. Will be shown @IFA and CEDIA, ship late-September.

Since Yamaha will likely try to upsell its existing base of AVR owners who (like me) already employ Front or Front+Rear Presence (height) speakers, I'm hoping they will have a height speaker strategy that differs from Pioneer's (which seems to be "dump your existing on-wall height speakers and replace them with on-ceiling speakers!")

At of now, I will make no plans to change my AV system until I see what speaker layout options are available from the DTS-UHD promised benefit "Customized rendering designed for arbitrary speaker layouts enables consumers to adapt their AV system to their own home environment rather than pre-determined speaker layouts" (link) ...!

Before the advent of Home Dolby Atmos, I had not thought of my existing 5.x + 2x FrontPresence speaker layouts as "arbitrary" . . . but I see no reason to change my long-held position that "if speakers were supposed to be located on my ceiling, gravity would have pointed UP!"
_
markus767's Avatar markus767 12:41 PM 06-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post
"Customized rendering designed for arbitrary speaker layouts enables consumers to adapt their AV system to their own home environment rather than pre-determined speaker layouts"
That equals to objects-only mixes or sophisticated speaker remapping of channel-based content. The former doesn't exist and the latter is a less-than-ideal solution currently only available in Trinnov (-enabled) processors.
Dan Hitchman's Avatar Dan Hitchman 02:52 PM 06-24-2014
From 128 simultaneous objects down to... 4???? That seems like we're wasting our time here with "object" surround. Why not just stick with channel based audio while we're at it since things have been so completely stripped down?

There are huge benefits and surround placement potential with objects over strictly channels and this just seems like a pointless exercise right now.
Scott Simonian's Avatar Scott Simonian 02:55 PM 06-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
From 128 simultaneous objects down to... 4???? That seems like we're wasting our time here with "object" surround. Why not just stick with channel based audio while we're at it since things have been so completely stripped down?

There are huge benefits and surround placement potential with objects over strictly channels and this just seems like a pointless exercise right now.
Dan. Where on Earth did you get the idea that objects are limited to just four?

Maybe take a moment and re-read ALL this stuff about home Atmos, bro.


Four ceiling heights =/= four 'objects'
sdurani's Avatar sdurani 03:00 PM 06-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Dan. Where on Earth did you get the idea that objects are limited to just four?
He's conflating the professional version of Atmos (128 objects) with the proposed Fraunhofer broadcast TV audio format (4 objects) that soundchex mentioned. Any excuse to complain.
Scott Simonian's Avatar Scott Simonian 03:05 PM 06-24-2014
So in other words, absolutely nothing to worry about being limited to four objects.

Lol hope everyone else is paying attention.
markus767's Avatar markus767 04:01 PM 06-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
So in other words, absolutely nothing to worry about being limited to four objects.

Lol hope everyone else is paying attention.
How would you get 118 simultaneous objects in a stream that is only a couple of MBit/s max?
Scott Simonian's Avatar Scott Simonian 04:14 PM 06-24-2014
Because you know exactly how much data all these objects consume?
Archaea's Avatar Archaea 04:27 PM 06-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Pioneer has also announced some AVR's coming out.

Definitely want to know what Yamaha is going to do. Omg. Perfect processor for me would be something like their 5000 pre/pro but with Atmos. CinemaDSP+Atmos!

Not until they put a darn balanced XLR output on the sub out.
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