The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 23 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 4480Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #661 of 14643 Old 07-08-2014, 11:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,924
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 779 Post(s)
Liked: 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Trinnov Optimizer or Dolby Atmos? ...Underlined.
I am saying that object audio remapping is like DTS remapping. Not like Trinnov.

Deadwood Atmos theater
AV7702 Atmos 7.4.4, SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
Roger Dressler is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #662 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 12:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 9,222
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1039 Post(s)
Liked: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post
Cheaper chip or cheaper licensing?
Cheaper rendering and authoring software and cheaper licensing. Hollywood is always looking for the cheap route if they can help it. If it's superior, that's probably a secondary motivation.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is offline  
post #663 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 12:10 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 19,834
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked: 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
What's the chance that hollywood is going to "re-lease" some of the older titles in Dolby Atmos?
There used to be a thread in the surround music section of the forum discussing which albums folks would like to have remixed to multi-channel. I'm sure there would be a similar wishlist for older movies some of us would like remixed to Atmos. Off the top of my head: Towering Inferno, Star Wars, Raiders, Top Gun, Twister, Die Hard, Independence Day, Rocketeer, Matrix, Tora Tora Tora. Don't know if the studios are thinking the same thing, but I hope so.

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #664 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 12:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,924
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 779 Post(s)
Liked: 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
If using a single pair of heights, you put them in the top middle position. If you're using 2 pairs of heights, you put them in the top front and top rear positions.

There is a little flexibility, in that each position has a 35 degree range: e.g., top middle can be anywhere from 25 degrees forward of your listening position to 10 degrees rearward of your listening position (65 degrees elevation to 110 degrees elevation).
I agree that the limitations of which you speak may well be true for this first generation, but it will not always be the case.

Deadwood Atmos theater
AV7702 Atmos 7.4.4, SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
Roger Dressler is offline  
post #665 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 01:10 AM
Senior Member
 
asarose247's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 472
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 52
A speaker set-up algorithm(?) using 3 microphones simultaneously in (a) pre-determined pattern(s) would be able to triangulate your speakers positioning exactly, or so it would seem.
Being retired can be tougher than you might imagine, however, one last nobody really cares, time . . .
as an expositon of my original, if somewhat lacking in geometric exactness, idea
yes, 3 mikes laid out in a pattern of known distances and angles wrt to each other do indeed create a plane, THEN you add a fourth point i.e. the tone coming from the speaker.
That 4th point now creates 3 intersecting planes from the known base plane (think pyramid).The time delay of the tone to each of the known points is converted into distance which, along with the know angles and distances of the base plane, creates the 3 intersecting planes and determine the location of the 4th point, the speaker . maybe
And we should be able to compound the geometric input
Even my $400 yammy 775 can calculate D and it goes by 1/10 ft. or something small I know.
So the first measurement is 1 mike at the mlp, that creates a data set of speaker distance. perceptually in one plane, no elevation but separation angles/distances
Like it says my high presence speakers are 12.whatever feet from the MLP but it doesn't know that they are 7 feet in the air, about 4 feet above the mlp as part of that distance.
So if a map could be set up that wrt to a known, say the MLP at a height of 36" and the measured input, by the user of the horizontal distance from the MLP to that speaker, the few simple trig calcs later and we will be able to calculate height wrt to the MLP
Then we use the 3 mike set-up, intersecting triangles and the distance stuff and the chip does the spatial placement being able to include in the calculation the known horizontal distance to the MLP, which comes out to 4 interesting planes. if we cannot figure out where the speaker is by now, who cares, turn it up . . LOL


no illumination or rebuttal expected or needed, I'm done thinking about it anyway but it seems like there's something there (delusion?)


now the separation of mikes on the Trinnov 4way as shown doesn't seem to be able to get much of a signal delay so no doubt there are greater minds than mine already at work on this. apparently THAT'S not too hard to do JSS
So the real question we all ask remains,
when do I get my bonafide unwatered-down 7.2.4?

Denon X5200 , Emotiva UPA7, for 7.3.4
Klipsch F3 FL/R, G-28 CenterLow, Icon 25 CenterHigh, RC3II: SL/R SLX: Rears ,TF & TR, RB51's:FH
2 30" BF THTLP'S and SubMaximus and Inuke6000DSP
Mitsy DLP 73738 Xbox1 PS4 Panny BD 220
asarose247 is online now  
post #666 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 01:27 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 19,834
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked: 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
I agree that the limitations of which you speak may well be true for this first generation, but it will not always be the case.
Oh sure, didn't mean to imply it was a permanent condition. But since the Dolby FAQ has already mentioned up to 10 speakers overhead, the future might bring 5 options (not 3) for placing a pair of heights.

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #667 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 02:20 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Oh sure, didn't mean to imply it was a permanent condition. But since the Dolby FAQ has already mentioned up to 10 speakers overhead, the future might bring 5 options (not 3) for placing a pair of heights.
Total speculation on my part, but I can see 10 speakers overhead breaking down into:

Front Heights
Front Top
Center Top
Rear Top
Rear Heights

Certainly if I was wiring for home cinema that would be my best bet if I wanted to put in 10 overhead speakers.
abrxx is offline  
post #668 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 03:29 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 19,145
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2167 Post(s)
Liked: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

It was an excellent mix, for sure.

Though what you are hearing on BD is not objects. You do not own any software or hardware that is object aware.
That was my point, Scott - that the benefits of the Atmos mix seemed to be trickling down.
kbarnes701 is offline  
post #669 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 03:40 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 19,145
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2167 Post(s)
Liked: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
There used to be a thread in the surround music section of the forum discussing which albums folks would like to have remixed to multi-channel. I'm sure there would be a similar wishlist for older movies some of us would like remixed to Atmos. Off the top of my head: Towering Inferno, Star Wars, Raiders, Top Gun, Twister, Die Hard, Independence Day, Rocketeer, Matrix, Tora Tora Tora. Don't know if the studios are thinking the same thing, but I hope so.
Top Gun with an Atmos mix.... oh, oh, oh, ooooooooh! And all the others you mention too would probably see my credit card start glowing with the heat...
kbarnes701 is offline  
post #670 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 03:46 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 19,145
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2167 Post(s)
Liked: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
YPAO can measure the angles but the information is not being fed back into the Atmos engine unfortunately.
kbarnes701 is offline  
post #671 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 04:25 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 20,733
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 367 Post(s)
Liked: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Trinnov uses all the speakers to create the remapping effect. It is like Higher Order Ambisonics in that respect. Not at all like phantom panning between a pair of speakers.
My understanding is that Trinnov uses all of the speakers as necessary for its best effort at recreating a phase-correct soundfield.

I believe that if the correct speaker location is exactly between two physical speakers that they will pretty much receive the same signal to create a phantom image between them.

IIRC in one of the Trinnov reviews I saw the reviewer had a speaker layout very close to the ITU locations and said that with remapping on and with single-channel test tones there was barely any sound coming from the other speakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
...3 mikes laid out in a pattern of known distances and angles wrt to each other do indeed create a plane, THEN you add a fourth point i.e. the tone coming from the speaker.
That's circular, since the algorithm is trying to locate the speaker and therefore can't use knowledge of its location to find it.

With 3 mic's time delays can only be determined in a 2D plane; the 4th mic is needed to determine delays in directions perpendicular to that plane.

Noah

Last edited by noah katz; 07-09-2014 at 04:28 AM.
noah katz is offline  
post #672 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 04:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ss9001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: metro Atlanta
Posts: 8,706
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 249 Post(s)
Liked: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by abrxx View Post
Total speculation on my part, but I can see 10 speakers overhead breaking down into:

Front Heights
Front Top
Center Top
Rear Top
Rear Heights

Certainly if I was wiring for home cinema that would be my best bet if I wanted to put in 10 overhead speakers.
the problem is finding a receiver or affordable prepro that will have the terminals, preamp outs, built-in speaker configurations or speaker switching capability to accommodate them.

I'm not sure what Pioneer's AVR's will allow but the photo shows their Atmos AVRs no longer have dedicated terminals for front heights. It's possible their Top connection could be used for IIz heights but no answers yet on the speaker configurations to be supported. For D&M that have all the connections, leaked manual pages seem to indicate switching between heights & overheads is at least theoretically possible.

the only prepro I know of that could handle your idea is the new $30-40K Trinnov Altitude with up to 32 channels.

if you are constructing a dedicated room, you certainly could pre-wire all these positions, knowing not all of them can be used, at least you'd be prepared for anything but those of us with existing rooms are kind of in holding pattern planning for anything until manuals are forthcoming that show supported speaker layouts. even for atmos speakers & add-on modules, no way to tell where to put them until you know what the AVR is going to allow.

the good news is it should all be clear in several months

Steve
ss9001 is online now  
post #673 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 06:51 AM
Member
 
BillFree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Round Rock, Texas
Posts: 107
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Definitive Tech. speakers / Dolby Atmos upgrade?

My sound system is Definitive Tech BP3000,C/L/R3000,BPVXsides, BPVX/P rears.
My Bluray player is OPPO 105. Amplifier is Sony AV receiver DN-1010

What will I need to use the new incorporate Dolby Atmos sound system for complete Atmos surround sound?

Appreciate your suggessions.
BillFree is offline  
post #674 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 07:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
RichB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 8,884
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 325 Post(s)
Liked: 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillFree View Post
My sound system is Definitive Tech BP3000,C/L/R3000,BPVXsides, BPVX/P rears.
My Bluray player is OPPO 105. Amplifier is Sony AV receiver DN-1010

What will I need to use the new incorporate Dolby Atmos sound system for complete Atmos surround sound?

Appreciate your suggessions.

From what I have read:


  • An Atmos enabled AVR,
  • 2 or 4 ceiling channels, either directly mounted in the ceiling or bouncing off the ceiling
  • Atmos encoded source material.

- Rich

Oppo Beta Group

Parasound A51 Black (for sale) | Oppo BDP-105D | Oppo HA-1 | Oppo PM-1 | Parasound A21 & A31 | Revel Salon, Voice, Studio | Velodyne HGS-15
RichB is online now  
post #675 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 07:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ss9001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: metro Atlanta
Posts: 8,706
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 249 Post(s)
Liked: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillFree View Post
My sound system is Definitive Tech BP3000,C/L/R3000,BPVXsides, BPVX/P rears.
My Bluray player is OPPO 105. Amplifier is Sony AV receiver DN-1010

What will I need to use the new incorporate Dolby Atmos sound system for complete Atmos surround sound?

Appreciate your suggessions.
you could also go with an Atmos add-on module speaker to use with existing speakers, like this from DefTech:

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/De...r-Module.shtml

Steve
ss9001 is online now  
post #676 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 07:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bootman_head_fi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Nanny State
Posts: 1,238
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post
you could also go with an Atmos add-on module speaker to use with existing speakers, like this from DefTech:

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/De...r-Module.shtml
They only mention the BP-8060ST model as being compatible.
Maybe more units are to be announced at a later date?
BillFree likes this.
bootman_head_fi is offline  
post #677 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 07:56 AM
Member
 
Sunny44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: CT
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 16
My current setup is 6.2, will I be able to
do a 6.2.2 or a 6.2.4?
Sunny44 is offline  
post #678 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 08:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
RichB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 8,884
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 325 Post(s)
Liked: 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunny44 View Post
My current setup is 6.2, will I be able to
do a 6.2.2 or a 6.2.4?
I do not see why center-back should not be supported, but you need to check the AVR/Processor for configuration information.


- Rich

Oppo Beta Group

Parasound A51 Black (for sale) | Oppo BDP-105D | Oppo HA-1 | Oppo PM-1 | Parasound A21 & A31 | Revel Salon, Voice, Studio | Velodyne HGS-15
RichB is online now  
post #679 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 08:17 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 19,145
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2167 Post(s)
Liked: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
I do not see why center-back should not be supported, but you need to check the AVR/Processor for configuration information.


- Rich
One of the problems with a centre back speaker, IIRC, is that the way pyscho-acoustics works, any sound placed right behind your head images as though it came from in front of you. How this would affect an Atmos setup, I have no idea, but it does seem like the centre back is best avoided. Even when the source is mono, I understand that ideally two rear speakers will be used, one at either side of the MLP.
kbarnes701 is offline  
post #680 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 11:19 AM
Advanced Member
 
JediFonger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 650
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Atmos for the home will not retain the full # of objects the commercial version will have. is the reason due to disk space of blu-rays or is it something else?

if this new surround sound schema is truly object-oriented, in theory, there should no LONGER be separate 'optimization' or mixes directed at varying sizes of commercial auditoriums, IMAX sized, homes or any size.

that particular optimization should not be handled by the AVR/processor or audyssey like mechanism. when optimized correctly, it should re-product ANY object-oriented sound whether from DTS or Dolby or anyone else in the future. otherwise... going half way in between (as it is currently spec'd) means there in 2 or 3 generation we will have to upgrade one more time to get the *FULL* benefit everything.

i will be sitting the market out until content is here and new gear is here. meanwhile, i betchya a lot of people will be on an upgrade freeze until all of this is sorted out in the marketplace.

if done, well this truly is the "final frontier" of surround sound format for films. i can't imagine anything else beyond this except additional objects.

to the edge of eternity and depth of infinity, stupidity knows no bound.
JediFonger is offline  
post #681 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 11:25 AM
Advanced Member
 
chi_guy50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 957
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 312 Post(s)
Liked: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post
For D&M that have all the connections, leaked manual pages seem to indicate switching between heights & overheads is at least theoretically possible.
Would you care to share your source with the rest of us? Or at least with a compadre in the ATL?
ambesolman likes this.
chi_guy50 is online now  
post #682 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 11:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
FilmMixer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Los Angeles Area, CA. USA
Posts: 6,909
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 582 Post(s)
Liked: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Cheaper rendering and authoring software and cheaper licensing. Hollywood is always looking for the cheap route if they can help it. If it's superior, that's probably a secondary motivation.
There is no licensing fee.
FilmMixer is online now  
post #683 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 11:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 9,222
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1039 Post(s)
Liked: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
There is no licensing fee.
Even better.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is offline  
post #684 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 12:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 9,222
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1039 Post(s)
Liked: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post
Atmos for the home will not retain the full # of objects the commercial version will have. is the reason due to disk space of blu-rays or is it something else?

if this new surround sound schema is truly object-oriented, in theory, there should no LONGER be separate 'optimization' or mixes directed at varying sizes of commercial auditoriums, IMAX sized, homes or any size.

that particular optimization should not be handled by the AVR/processor or audyssey like mechanism. when optimized correctly, it should re-product ANY object-oriented sound whether from DTS or Dolby or anyone else in the future. otherwise... going half way in between (as it is currently spec'd) means there in 2 or 3 generation we will have to upgrade one more time to get the *FULL* benefit everything.

i will be sitting the market out until content is here and new gear is here. meanwhile, i betchya a lot of people will be on an upgrade freeze until all of this is sorted out in the marketplace.

if done, well this truly is the "final frontier" of surround sound format for films. i can't imagine anything else beyond this except additional objects.

We don't yet know how many objects the consumer version vs. the cinema version has or can have. All we know for certain is that the positional metadata can work with a 24 + 10 configuration.

The only way to get absolute customization is to go with a purely object based bitstream format. As of now, it's a hybrid of channel beds plus so many positional objects due to backwards compatibility in the cinema and the home electronics environment.

I'm sure whatever limitations were built-in to consumer Atmos had much to do with consumer chip horsepower and the space and bitrate available on a regular Blu-ray disc without having the picture quality suffer too much.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is offline  
post #685 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 12:19 PM
Advanced Member
 
JediFonger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 650
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 14
why bother with that when TrueHD+DTS-HD MA didn't have a lot of backwards compatibility. either your AVR/BD player had it or you couldn't enjoy it.

let's get over that hump and pull the trigger.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
We don't yet know how many objects the consumer version vs. the cinema version has or can have. All we know for certain is that the positional metadata can work with a 24 + 10 configuration.

The only way to get absolute customization is to go with a purely object based bitstream format. As of now, it's a hybrid of channel beds plus so many positional objects due to backwards compatibility in the cinema and the home electronics environment.

I'm sure whatever limitations were built-in to consumer Atmos had much to do with consumer chip horsepower and the space and bitrate available on a regular Blu-ray disc without having the picture quality suffer too much.

to the edge of eternity and depth of infinity, stupidity knows no bound.
JediFonger is offline  
post #686 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 12:22 PM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 14,278
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 837 Post(s)
Liked: 1016
It's funny...

DTS-MA was supposed to issue a feature (speaker remapping) when it debuted nearly 10 years ago. It's looking like speaker remapping will have another 5-10 years. It probably won't really ever be a mainstream thing until we have 100% object mixes. And even then we would still have to deal with it working with legacy channel-based sound.

Just my prediction. Nevermind that they are almost always accurate.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)

https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link

http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website

Scott Simonian is online now  
post #687 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 12:23 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,964
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1116 Post(s)
Liked: 1564
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post
why bother with that when TrueHD+DTS-HD MA didn't have a lot of backwards compatibility.

What are you talking about? Of course DTS/Dolby hi-rez formats were backwards compatible, they were designed to work with "legacy" decoders that didn't support them. For example DTS-HD has a "core plus extension" structure with the legacy lossy DTS track and the lossless info separately as an extension. So if you were outputting a BD with DTS-HD/MA to a decoder that only supported standard DTS surround, it would just decode the lossy "core". See this whitepaper: http://www.opusproductions.com/pdfs/...WhitePaper.pdf

Roger or someone else can correct me but I'm pretty sure Dolby True-HD authored BD's included a lossy 5.1 track as well for legacy support.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is online now  
post #688 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 12:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 9,222
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1039 Post(s)
Liked: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post
why bother with that when TrueHD+DTS-HD MA didn't have a lot of backwards compatibility. either your AVR/BD player had it or you couldn't enjoy it.

let's get over that hump and pull the trigger.
Actually, they do. Both have lossy fall back tracks (either contained within the codec's core or as separate tracks) with a core + extension codec model for additional data and channels.

This is how we're getting Atmos and presumably DTS-UHD on Blu-ray: core + object extensions. The core can be read by any Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master Audio decoder and the Atmos or UHD renderers will combine both together for the complete "experience" in more sophisticated home theaters.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is offline  
post #689 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 12:38 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MichaelJHuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 18,951
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 238 Post(s)
Liked: 118
Batpig is 100% correct to the best of my knowledge. That's why there were never issues playing BR movies with any receiver. Either the player decoded to M-PCM, or it sent a compatible stream to older players.

I presume EDID info from HDMI allowed players to do the right thing

"But this one goes up to 11"
MichaelJHuman is offline  
post #690 of 14643 Old 07-09-2014, 12:48 PM
Advanced Member
 
JediFonger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 650
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 14
thanks everyone.

i think what i mean to communicate is different. what i'm trying to say is this:
Before TrueHD/DTS-HD MA was available and you only had a AVR capable of DD or DTS lossy and a DVD player. When BD/HD DVD came along it brought about the lossless formats. you *HAD* to purchase a new equipment to enjoy lossless surround sound. and yes i'm aware of the all backward compatibility. you had BD/HD DVD players with 5.1 RCA analog outs for AVRs that could receive them to enjoy lossless.

i think that's what we are seeing here with the 1st gen Atmos.

but what i'm trying to communicate is, eventually many of the HT enthusiasts purchased new AVRs that could decode bitstream lossless TrueHD/DTS-HD MA and BD players. so where we should be going is straight out of the gate new AVRs/BD players that can do that Atmos straight out of the gate instead of going with the in between solutions.

we're always trying to play stop-gap instead of just going full on ahead and doing it right the first time.

let's say we did this in 1991, create a spec cappable of handling 4k, 8k, 16k XYZ color space with object oriented then allow technology to catch up to the realization of that. the business side of technology doesn't allow that of course lolz...

to the edge of eternity and depth of infinity, stupidity knows no bound.
JediFonger is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off