The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 44 - AVS Forum
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post #1291 of 8245 Old 07-17-2014, 12:56 PM
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When the new BD disks come out with the Atmos mix it will be the same as what was being played during his demo that Keith was listening to in the dolby Atmos presentation.
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post #1292 of 8245 Old 07-17-2014, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by action_jackson View Post
He probably thought you were talking about a BD disk that you can currently purchase, when you were actually talking about the new ones that have not yet been released.
Ah right, thanks. It isn’t what I said, but yes, that makes sense.


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post #1293 of 8245 Old 07-17-2014, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by kokishin View Post
I thought there was no Atmos content currently available on BD?
I didn’t say there was. This is what I said:

"The answer was that the demo material we heard was "identical" to a commercial Bluray release of the same content."


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post #1294 of 8245 Old 07-17-2014, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by action_jackson View Post
When the new BD disks come out with the Atmos mix it will be the same as what was being played during his demo that Keith was listening to in the dolby Atmos presentation.
Yep - that is what we were told.


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post #1295 of 8245 Old 07-17-2014, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Yep - that is what we were told.
Two questions

Does anyone have an atmos diagram on where to place the 4 ceiling speakers?

And

If using ceiling speakers and not virtual speakers placed ontop of the 5 surround speakers firing up can u use any ceiling speakers to get the effect or do they need to be a certain type?
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post #1296 of 8245 Old 07-17-2014, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by action_jackson View Post
He probably thought you were talking about a BD disk that you can currently purchase, when you were actually talking about the new ones that have not yet been released.
Correct! And I still don't understand what he meant by "identical". It can't be identical to a current BD if it has Atmos content.

If it was from a commercial movie release with Atmos content on DCP, then I understand.

If he said "similar to", then I understand.

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post #1297 of 8245 Old 07-17-2014, 01:39 PM
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It's the latter. It seemed pretty clear from what he said. He never used the word "current".

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post #1298 of 8245 Old 07-17-2014, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech5635 View Post
Two questions

Does anyone have an atmos diagram on where to place the 4 ceiling speakers?

And

If using ceiling speakers and not virtual speakers placed ontop of the 5 surround speakers firing up can u use any ceiling speakers to get the effect or do they need to be a certain type?
This diagram (which will be in upcoming Denon/Marantz manuals) has been posted several times in this thread already:



We haven't seen any "official" whitepaper detailing the "ideal" locations, but this diagram allows for a decent amount of latitude in placement. The basic idea is that the ceiling speakers should be approximately in line with the front L/R speakers, and if you are going with four there should be two in front of you, and two behind you.

(Note that the "height" speakers in the diagram reference speakers for non-Atmos surround modes like DTS Neo:X. This is a multi-purpose speaker layout diagram)

The ceiling speakers should ideally be (1) a good tonal match to your other speakers to maintain the seamlessless of the 3D bubble, so preferably speakers from the same manufacturer if possible, and (2) have decent dispersion characteristics so that the sound effects from above don't "beam" too much and restrict the size of the sweet spot. The latter factor is probably less of a concern the higher your ceilings are.
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post #1299 of 8245 Old 07-17-2014, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
It's the latter. It seemed pretty clear from what he said. He never used the word "current".
In fact, I specifically said "the same content". IE the same being the same as what I was talking about - Atmos content.


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post #1300 of 8245 Old 07-17-2014, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post
Yes, but that's equally true for every seating location. Nothing specific to the middle of the room.
There can be specific issues, again depending on media content. Consider the LF sweep at Sauron's demise early in FOTR. I wouldn't want a "hole" in that.


This may all be a moot point because multiple subs will have mitigated the issue, if used.


I enjoy the chat, but it's off topic. Another forum?
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post #1301 of 8245 Old 07-17-2014, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post
Lower them mechanically into position once everyone is seated? Would be sooo geeky!
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post #1302 of 8245 Old 07-17-2014, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kokishin View Post
Correct! And I still don't understand what he meant by "identical". It can't be identical to a current BD if it has Atmos content.

If it was from a commercial movie release with Atmos content on DCP, then I understand.

If he said "similar to", then I understand.
This fall there will be new blu rays released that have Atmos content for you to purchase at retail.

If you happen to buy one of these "NEW" Atmos mastered BDs and it happens to be the same movie that Keith was watching in the demo, you will be listening to the exact same Atmos content that he previewed.
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post #1303 of 8245 Old 07-17-2014, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post


We haven't seen any "official" whitepaper detailing the "ideal" locations, but this diagram allows for a decent amount of latitude in placement. The basic idea is that the ceiling speakers should be approximately in line with the front L/R speakers...

I can't think of any reason why heights in line with L/R would be an advantage.

In any case, I think that may be reading too much into the diagram which seems rather schematic in nature, with only a single listener shown; another next to him would be directly under the speaker.

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Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post
This may all be a moot point because multiple subs will have mitigated the issue, if used.
Perhaps not completely though; IIRC the opposite wall cancellation is only for those of odd order, i.e. would not apply to modes 2, 4, 6 etc.

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Which part is "reading too much" into it? My comments seemed fairly broad and nonspecific.

EDIT: looks like you edited and clarified after the fact. Yeah, you're probably right about that.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
I can't think of any reason why heights in line with L/R would be an advantage.

In any case, I think that may be reading too much into the diagram which seems rather schematic in nature, with only a single listener shown; another next to him would be directly under the speaker.



Perhaps not completely though; IIRC the opposite wall cancellation is only for those of odd order, i.e. would not apply to modes 2, 4, 6 etc.
I'll get back to you via PM so as to not hijack.
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I do wonder if UPMIXING will be worth it or if it is any better DTS Neo X?

Also, TRUE HD is on so few Blu Rays relative to DTS... I just can't see that changing because of ATMOS.

When DTS comes, I think ATMOS will be relegated to TRUE HD status.

Who knows...


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post #1307 of 8245 Old 07-17-2014, 02:21 PM
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I do wonder if UPMIXING will be worth it or if it is any better DTS Neo X?
I am told it is better. And PLIIz is dead. Gone. An ex-surround mode.

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Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Also, TRUE HD is on so few Blu Rays relative to DTS... I just can't see that changing because of ATMOS.
It will change for the obvious reason that Atmos is delivered by TrueHD. Studios use DTS-HD because it is easier for them to work with, not because it has any inherent benefits as such.

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When DTS comes, I think ATMOS will be relegated to TRUE HD status.
When. They don't even have a commercial version yet - they are miles behind Dolby. Dolby have so much first mover advantage I personally wonder if DTS will every catch them now.


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post #1308 of 8245 Old 07-17-2014, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
It's the latter. It seemed pretty clear from what he said. He never used the word "current".
Understood. The 7.1.x and 5.1.x Atmos mix BD will not be "identical" to the DCP that I expect the Dolby demo was using. Hopefully it will be near enough. FWIW, I was not trying to bust his chops. I am very interested in setting up an Atmos system at home. Maybe some think I am being too literal, but the devil is in the details.

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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post

And that Denon's graph, forget it about sitting in the room's center position! Whoever is doing the drawings for Denon is not taking the time to analyse room's acoustics. ...Most likely just a kid from college and on weeds.

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Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post
That's not correct. The center of the room is no different than any other seating location with regards to low frequency response. People think this is the case because people publish papers of how nulls form and they typically pick a single frequency that evenly fits in the room dimensions to demonstrate the problem and the frequency they pick forms a null in the middle of the room. This is done for ease of explanation, not because there's anything special about the center of the room.
* http://www.hometoys.com/emagazine/20...ding-room/1511

-> Section 3 - 3.1.1 - The '38% rule' & 3.3 - Rear Wall

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* http://www.silcom.com/~aludwig/Room_acoustics.html

* http://www.uaudio.com/blog/studio-monitor-placement/

* http://courses.physics.illinois.edu/...ct10_part2.pdf

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Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post
Yes, but that's equally true for every seating location. Nothing specific to the middle of the room.
It's only the worst position to be sitting @ and listening to. ... ♫

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Originally Posted by joerod View Post
I am actually doing another set of Vanquish in my ceiling. That will give me two height, two in the middle and two towards the back of the room. This will give perfect coverage for Atmos.
Do you think Vanquish are overkill for ambient sounds like rain and stuff? Do you think there'd be much difference over say EM-R's?
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Weeds plural?
You'll have to excuse me once in a while; it's my French accent, sorry.
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post #1315 of 8245 Old 07-17-2014, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
It's only the worst position to be sitting @ and listening to. ... ♫
Depends on the room and where the source(s) is/are located. General assumptions about modal distribution patterns seldomly help. Acoustic measurements do.

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post #1316 of 8245 Old 07-17-2014, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by SubSolar View Post
Do you think Vanquish are overkill for ambient sounds like rain and stuff? Do you think there'd be much difference over say EM-R's?
Possibly yes. But I already have 4 up there so I may as well finish it off with two more. Of course that rain, apes hollering, crowd cheering, voices and bullets flying will sound unbelievablely real.

Not sure how much difference than EM-Rs.

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Of curse Markus.

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post #1318 of 8245 Old 07-17-2014, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
IIRC the opposite wall cancellation is only for those of odd order, i.e. would not apply to modes 2, 4, 6 etc.
If you move the subs away from opposite walls, symmetrically, then you can start cancelling certain even-order modes (while still cancelling all odd-order modes).

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post #1319 of 8245 Old 07-17-2014, 03:05 PM
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I wonder...what will be the very first Blu-ray movie encoded (embedded, integrated, immersed, ...) with Dolby Atmos? ...Released to the general public (for sale).

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post #1320 of 8245 Old 07-17-2014, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Of curse Markus.
Then why the claim the middle of the room would be the worst location for music listening?

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