The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 86 - AVS Forum
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post #2551 of 8619 Old 07-30-2014, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post
How do you get 8 NorthSky?
- Infinite baffle with 4 x 15" drivers = 6
- Two in-room subs = 2

Total = 6 ...That's what I first meant, 6, I made a typo.

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post #2552 of 8619 Old 07-30-2014, 04:54 PM
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It would be preferable to have available object-based and|or channel-based source material that decodes|renders for Bottom Layer channels . . . check out the First Draft (version "-0") of Recommendation ITU-R BS.2051-0 (02/2014) Advanced sound system for programme production (link) (direct link to pdf) which details the eight nominal channel|speaker layouts 'floated' by ITU for "next generation broadcast audio systems". Speaker configurations 'E' and 'G' meet your requirements.
_
Even though specs are ready and available at ITU, the bottom layer channels will have to wait a bit and take their comfy place on the back seat, unless otherwise what are we gonna sell tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. Do you hear the Marketing Director speak up at the Board Meeting while working hard for setting up the future of the company? Sounds familiar, eh? No way out folks, we're in the hands of the MD

Prove me wrong after 2-4 years and I will stand corrected.

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post #2553 of 8619 Old 07-30-2014, 05:04 PM
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We all have different subwoofer configs. - what is the Atmos determinate or specification that tells us if we need further woofing?
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post #2554 of 8619 Old 07-30-2014, 05:27 PM
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Can someone please tell me which posts are the listener impressions for the in home demoes that some of you seem to have been able to get? I have been gone for about a week and a half (family emergency) and I come back to find that well over 1000 posts have been made in that time! This thread is getting very big, very fast. I have caught up on the last 150 posts or so and am really enjoying all the ideas and suggestions for specific models of speakers to use for the ceiling speakers. It really seems like the concentric design is really starting to take off and become more main stream instead of staying relegated to the more esoteric brands.

Thanks,
Eric

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post #2555 of 8619 Old 07-30-2014, 05:52 PM
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Try page 38, and the very first post @ top, post #1111

Bests, ~ Robert § (Bob)

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post #2556 of 8619 Old 07-30-2014, 05:59 PM
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I guess the cutting edge members here will go for as many speakers as technically feasible to have the bragging rights that they have it all

My gear & my blog:

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post #2557 of 8619 Old 07-30-2014, 06:09 PM
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7.1.4 so far or 9.1.2 seems the max @ home from the upcoming first batch of Dolby Atmos products.

* 7.2.4 or 9.2.4 are only variables of the number of subwoofers used (.2 in the middle) ...Or you can have another variable with 7.4.4 or 9.4.4 and so on as you can add more and more subs. ...But technically it always remains the subwoofer channel (.1 LFE) and the bass redirected from all the other main channels (up to 11).

Am I right? An 11.2-channel or a 13.4-channel AV receiver or SSP is still using 7 or 9 or 11 main channels plus 2 or 4 overheads and one LFE channel (.1 & all the bass from any number of channels redirected to it).

Denon/Marantz top guns are 11.2-channel "sailing ships"
And Onkyo/Integra "flagships" are 13.4-channel "battleships".
Can the Onkyo PR-SC5530 runs 13 all together? ...9 mains plus 4 overheads and 4 subs (LFE).
But they still use 11 (or 13) channels (mains + tops) and one LFE channel all together, running @ the same time.

Am I right?

I'm sure some people wish for 11.1.4 ...or 13.1.4 ...or 15.2.6 ...or 17.4.6 ...or 19.4.8 ...or 24.6.10 ...or 32.8.10 ...or 64.8.16 ...or 128.16.32 ...

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post #2558 of 8619 Old 07-30-2014, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Then maybe it's 31.3 to total 34. I wouldn't think Dolby would make it so onerous to scale a theatrical Atmos mix to a consumer mix or the studio post houses wouldn't easily go for it.
Atmos delivers a single LFE channel. The CP-850 performs bass management that can create additional sub feeds.

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post #2559 of 8619 Old 07-30-2014, 06:27 PM
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I have 11 speakers and two 12 inch subs two speakers are front high two are back speakers in the ceiling one center above the TV, two fronts on each side of the TV, two wides and two surrounds. The only thing is my front highs may need to move to the ceiling, but I'll determine that once I hook up a new TX-NR 1030...... if I go in that direction. Still sorting this out in my mind and the more I think about it the more I want it.....

My main setup
PN60E8000 Plus evolution 2013Kit + Directv genie + Panasonic 3D blu-ray player + Onkyo TX-NR 818 9.2 Bic F12 subs Onkyo M-5010 2-Channel Amplifier for wides.
MY 10' X 15' DEN
PN51F5500 + Directv Genie + Panasonic 3D blu-ray player + Onkyo TX-NR 737 5.2.2
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post #2560 of 8619 Old 07-30-2014, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Atmos delivers a single LFE channel. The CP-850 performs bass management that can create additional sub feeds.
I do remember that part, but usually the "managed" sub outputs tend to get lumped together as "channels." They do it and so do we.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #2561 of 8619 Old 07-30-2014, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
I do remember that part, but usually the "managed" sub outputs tend to get lumped together as "channels." They do it and so do we.
Sure. No disagreement. I just wanted to make the distinction between "Atmos format" and speaker systems. In the latter case, one can arbitrarily have as many subs as one wants. Some more general hardware like the QSC Q-Sys can make piles of them if wanted.

Roger

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post #2562 of 8619 Old 07-30-2014, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post
We all have different subwoofer configs. - what is the Atmos determinate or specification that tells us if we need further woofing?
I don't think Atmos has anything to do with it. The sub channel will be LFE plus redirected bass, just like any other home HT config.
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post #2563 of 8619 Old 07-30-2014, 06:35 PM
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I don't think Atmos has anything to do with it. The sub channel will be LFE plus redirected bass, just like any other home HT config.
I think it boils down to whether or not Dolby will recommend that manufacturers include bass managed sub outs for the surround speakers and not just the summed LFE and the redirected bass from all the other speakers into one big mono output.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #2564 of 8619 Old 07-30-2014, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Try page 38, and the very first post @ top, post #1111
Thanks dude! When I go to page 38, the top post is #1481 which doesn't have any kind of impressions of actual listening, but post #1111 was a great read. Sounds like Keith really enjoyed the demo. Lucky guy!

Keith, did you get back for a second listen yet or is that coming? Are you the only one here who has heard Atmos in 'home' first hand or are there other posts I have missed? If I read the impression right, the 'home' version you listened to was the 7.1.4 format? Now the big decision is which level of home Atmos to go for, do I save some buck and do the Denon X4100, go for 7.1.4 and get the X5200 or X7200, or wait till next years models come out and see if the options expand even more. I really want to upgrade my Denon AVR-3808ci as it is really becoming a limit in my main theater and I really want to get into Atmos at home but getting an X4000 for closeout pricing and waiting to see what next years models bring to the table, and what DTS is going to do, also sounds appealing. Awww decisions, decisions.

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post #2565 of 8619 Old 07-30-2014, 06:39 PM
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Cinema Andy also posted a review of a Dolby demo, and his impressions were similar. During his demo they switched from in ceiling speakers to reflected speakers during the movie and nobody noticed.
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post #2566 of 8619 Old 07-30-2014, 06:46 PM
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The CP-850; it's a separate unit to EQ multiple subs?

Bests, ~ Robert § (Bob)

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post #2567 of 8619 Old 07-30-2014, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
The CP-850; it's a separate unit to EQ multiple subs?
That's the Atmos Cinema Processor. The heart of Dolby's commercial object audio system.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #2568 of 8619 Old 07-30-2014, 07:13 PM
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Lightbulb Testing Testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by esappy View Post
Can someone please tell me which posts are the listener impressions for the in home demoes that some of you seem to have been able to get?

Thanks,
Eric
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Cinema Andy also posted a review of a Dolby demo, and his impressions were similar. During his demo they switched from in ceiling speakers to reflected speakers during the movie and nobody noticed.
Keith: Dolby Atmos | Keith's Real Demo Experience

Andy: Dolby Atmos | Andy's Real Demo Experience

Bests, ~ Robert § (Bob)

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post #2569 of 8619 Old 07-30-2014, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
That's the Atmos Cinema Processor. The heart of Dolby's commercial object audio system.
Pg. 4 details the CP-850

http://www.cinemateriel.com/PDF/Son/...tmos_CP850.pdf
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post #2570 of 8619 Old 07-30-2014, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
I think it boils down to whether or not Dolby will recommend that manufacturers include bass managed sub outs for the surround speakers and not just the summed LFE and the redirected bass from all the other speakers into one big mono output.
As batpig said, there's no reason for BM to be handled any differently than now.

Noah
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post #2571 of 8619 Old 07-30-2014, 07:33 PM
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Thx Dan (CP850 = Heart of Dolby Atmos 'commercial' Cinema Processor - Object Audio System), gotcha!

* What does the 850 stand for? ...The number itself.

P.S. & thx Orbitron for that above link.

______________

<<>> Some additional comments from Andy regarding Dolby Atmos Demo experience:
[Between Floor/Firing into Ceiling & "Overhead" Atmos speakers - Switching +]

1. Dolby Atmos | Switching between Ceiling-Firing & On-Ceiling Atmos Speakers

2. Dolby Atmos | "The Apes" & New THX Trailer

Bests, ~ Robert § (Bob)

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post #2572 of 8619 Old 07-30-2014, 08:06 PM
 
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I'm not sure I can post this here but Axiom just announced a new concentric in ceiling based off their M3 driver dimensions.

http://axiomaudio.com/m3-in-ceiling-...n=July2014#t-0
Hoping to replace my AVR with the Onkyo TX-NR3030 so 4 of these speakers are going to be right on budget for my setup but after reading a few of the more recent posts I'm a bit concerned that there is no ability to direct or toe-in the drivers.

How important is that going to be. ?

Currently have 4 LED ceiling lights in near perfect position. Just need to swop out for the Atmos ceiling speakers.

Really enjoyed reading the Atmos thread over the last few weeks, it has been very educational.

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post #2573 of 8619 Old 07-30-2014, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Cinema Andy also posted a review of a Dolby demo, and his impressions were similar. During his demo they switched from in ceiling speakers to reflected speakers during the movie and nobody noticed.
While I'm not going to poke the bear, you can't make a determination if anyone noticed a difference unless you hear the same material both ways.

They most definitely sound different... IMO not in a detrimental way.

I'm going the reflective route, and don't have any regrets knowing it's my only choice.. it's really satisfactory.
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post #2574 of 8619 Old 07-30-2014, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post
For the last 20+ years my height("presence") speakers have been mounted high on the front and rear walls of rooms used for my home theater systems . . . close to where the "intelligent designers" at Yamaha had suggested I install them. If any of those speakers wish to relocate to the ceiling, they will need to evolve an independent means of locomotion and reattachment sufficient to do so under their own power (and remember to reattach their earthquake tethers after the move!)

Notwithstanding the 'persuasive eloquence' of this forum somewhat to the contrary, I suspect that the vast majority of AVR owners with existing DPLIIz, DSX, Neo:X, or CinemaDSP height speakers already in place, will chose to leave them exactly where they are already installed until the 'unfitness' of any such existing location for Dolby Atmos playback is clearly demonstrated in their own home!

All of which means that I look forward with some interest to finding out just what DTS is "promising" with the stated DTS-UHD "benefit", viz: "Customized rendering designed for arbitrary speaker layouts enables consumers to adapt their AV system to their own home environment rather than pre-determined speaker layouts"...?!
_
This 'high on wall' vs 'over head' placement is of big interest to some of us I suspect. It's going to be very interesting to get feedback from people who have/will try both locations. I'm very much looking forward to their comments.


While we can all agree on the angles of location from the MLP, I am still left wondering whether there is any significant sound difference between high on wall vs ceiling mount. FilmMixer seems to think so.


To conduct a real comparison might be a bit of a challenge though. The speakers will have to be located in those 'high' and 'over head' positions and have the same material flicked backwards and forwards between them.
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post #2575 of 8619 Old 07-30-2014, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
I think it boils down to whether or not Dolby will recommend that manufacturers include bass managed sub outs for the surround speakers and not just the summed LFE and the redirected bass from all the other speakers into one big mono output.
I think in a cinema it makes sense to place the subs for the surrounds nearer to them. The long distances would cause the bass (were it from the screen region) to arrive at vastly different times vs. the surround sounds depending on where one is seated. At home we do not a problem of that magnitude.

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post #2576 of 8619 Old 07-31-2014, 01:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
While I'm not going to poke the bear, you can't make a determination if anyone noticed a difference unless you hear the same material both ways.

They most definitely sound different... IMO not in a detrimental way.

I'm going the reflective route, and don't have any regrets knowing it's my only choice.. it's really satisfactory.
I'm going ceiling-firing at first too. Lots to play around with. I had some 4" fullrange drivers lying around anyway. They just need to be put into boxes.

By the way, could you prepare Atmos test files for us? I haven't put too much thought into how those test files should look like yet nor do we know how they could be played back.

Markus

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Originally Posted by esappy View Post
Can someone please tell me which posts are the listener impressions for the in home demoes that some of you seem to have been able to get? I have been gone for about a week and a half (family emergency) and I come back to find that well over 1000 posts have been made in that time! This thread is getting very big, very fast. I have caught up on the last 150 posts or so and am really enjoying all the ideas and suggestions for specific models of speakers to use for the ceiling speakers. It really seems like the concentric design is really starting to take off and become more main stream instead of staying relegated to the more esoteric brands.

Thanks,
Eric
I did this review after hearing home Atmos at Dolby in London.

I am attending another home Atmos demo at Dolby on 13th August, so expect a further review soon after that. Hopefully I will be able to add more information from a second session.


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post #2578 of 8619 Old 07-31-2014, 02:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esappy View Post
Thanks dude! When I go to page 38, the top post is #1481 which doesn't have any kind of impressions of actual listening, but post #1111 was a great read. Sounds like Keith really enjoyed the demo. Lucky guy!

Keith, did you get back for a second listen yet or is that coming? Are you the only one here who has heard Atmos in 'home' first hand or are there other posts I have missed? If I read the impression right, the 'home' version you listened to was the 7.1.4 format? Now the big decision is which level of home Atmos to go for, do I save some buck and do the Denon X4100, go for 7.1.4 and get the X5200 or X7200, or wait till next years models come out and see if the options expand even more. I really want to upgrade my Denon AVR-3808ci as it is really becoming a limit in my main theater and I really want to get into Atmos at home but getting an X4000 for closeout pricing and waiting to see what next years models bring to the table, and what DTS is going to do, also sounds appealing. Awww decisions, decisions.
I might still be the only person in the thread who has heard home Atmos - not sure. Maybe the only one who has reported on it as I am sure that industry professionals like FilmMixer will have heard it! As just posted (readahead mode is still broken here) I am attending another Dolby demo on 13th August and will make a report, adding to my initial experience. Yes, it was 7.1.4 I heard, with physical and Atmos speakers.

I am going for the Denon X4100W this time around as I can only do 5.1.4 here (no room for rear surrounds) and so that unit suits me, and is quite a lot less costly than the X5200W. I believe the latter is made in Japan and the former in China, if that sort of thing bothers you.
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post #2579 of 8619 Old 07-31-2014, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Cinema Andy also posted a review of a Dolby demo, and his impressions were similar. During his demo they switched from in ceiling speakers to reflected speakers during the movie and nobody noticed.
I still don't really understand how they did that during a loud segment of the movie, without there being some sort of way of hearing the switch. If they had done it during an almost silent bit of the track, then maybe, but IIRC that isn't what CinemaAndy said was the way they did it. But I can believe nobody would notice the difference if they did a blind test demo of each - although I do believe I could hear a difference on the demo I attended, between physical ceiling speakers and Atmos speakers, it was very subtle. That is not to say that with different ceiling speakers, of course, that the difference wouldn’t have been more pronounced. FM says the difference is very noticeable (but not in a bad way) and I respect that view, but his demo may have been with a more sophisticated ceiling speaker setup than the one I attended, where the physical speakers were very small.


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post #2580 of 8619 Old 07-31-2014, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by esappy View Post
Can someone please tell me which posts are the listener impressions for the in home demoes that some of you seem to have been able to get?
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
I might still be the only person in the thread who has heard home Atmos - not sure. Maybe the only one who has reported on it.
Keith, mon vieux, est-que c'est possible que tu aies oublié la contribution d'Hugo? Quel honte!

Hugo S provided a link to his review (in French) of a demo he attended on July 18 in Paris given by Onkyo. I found his experience particularly interesting since it was presented in an untreated, plain-vanilla living room in a 5.1.2 format (using up-firing Atmos add-on speaker modules)--so nothing at all fancy. And yet he was impressed with the 3D audio immersion.

If you don't read French, you can try using an on-line translator. Or, if Hugo is not lurking, I would be happy to answer any questions in his stead.
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