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post #1 of 25 Old 06-25-2014, 02:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Wireless speakers

Is it possible to have wireless speakers via Bluetooth or something else, without a second receiver?

If so, what receivers support this, or what is the technology called?
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post #2 of 25 Old 06-26-2014, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Anyone? Do wireless speakers exist? Really don't want to be running cable everywhere.
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post #3 of 25 Old 06-26-2014, 11:31 AM
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There are a bunch of different ways to get wireless speakers - you can use wireless / Bluetooth speakers, get a wireless Transmitter / receiver and use standard speakers, or buy a pre-packaged setup:

http://www.amazon.com/b?node=172572

I have had some limited success and some friends have had limited success with them as well - but there isn't any 100% perfect technology that I know about yet - you are going to get occasional static or cutouts.

Try this one - this is one of the better units out there:

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/OAW3.html
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post #4 of 25 Old 06-26-2014, 11:35 AM
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You're going to have to power them one way or another so you'll need to either run speaker wire or electrical. Maybe some can be battery powered, but I would guess they wouldn't be much use.
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post #5 of 25 Old 06-27-2014, 12:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Power isn't an issue, many outlets behind the couch...

I know wireless speakers exist, but have not found a receiver that works well with them.

I would have thought there would be plenty of Bluetooth receivers, as the protocol allows streaming HD quality without issue, and there are already many high quality portable BT speakers.

Kind of surprised there are not high quality surround Bluetooth speakers.

I've been looking at this system: http://www.amazon.com/VIZIO-S4251w-B4-Soundbar-Subwoofer-Satellite/dp/B00CDIK908/ref=lp_172572_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=140384 3985&sr=1-2

It's a Soundbar but seems to meet all my criteria, aside from bot being a receiver.

I don't understand why it's so hard to find an equivalent setup but with a receiver.
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post #6 of 25 Old 06-27-2014, 02:15 PM
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That soundbar would probably be an improvement over your TV sound, but don't expect true "home theater" sound - they simply don't have the volume or dialog clarity / intelligibility that an AVR with real speakers are going to give you. My dad has a Vizio soundbar and it is just OK - better than TV speakers, but not impressive "home theater sound" by any measure.

Give us more details - what are you trying to do and what is your budget?

This transmitter and receiver/amplifier will connect to any AVR with preamp outputs and will power any standard speakers - this will allow you to power your surround speakers without speaker wires and solves your problem:

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/OAWA3.htm

Do you already have an AVR and don't know how to connect this? If so, what AVR do you have?

Why not just run wires for the rear channels? Do you live in a rental that you cannot add speaker wires? This is a bit of work but it will save you money and give you the best possible sound - check out this website:

http://www.audiogurus.com/learn/spea...round-sound/70

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post #7 of 25 Old 06-27-2014, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtn-tech View Post
That soundbar would probably be an improvement over your TV sound, but don't expect true "home theater" sound - they simply don't have the volume or dialog clarity / intelligibility that an AVR with real speakers are going to give you. My dad has a Vizio soundbar and it is just OK - better than TV speakers, but not impressive "home theater sound" by any measure.

Give us more details - what are you trying to do and what is your budget?

This transmitter and receiver/amplifier will connect to any AVR with preamp outputs and will power any standard speakers - this will allow you to power your surround speakers without speaker wires and solves your problem:

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/OAWA3.htm

Do you already have an AVR and don't know how to connect this? If so, what AVR do you have?

Why not just run wires for the rear channels? Do you live in a rental that you cannot add speaker wires? This is a bit of work but it will save you money and give you the best possible sound - check out this website:
I'm not trying to dispute or argue with people that know better, I'd just like to understand.

A wireless speaker has no reason to sound worse than a wired speaker if connected via Bluetooth. The protocol has more than enough bandwidth to handle HD surround sound, so I don't understand why there is not a market for these speakers.

I don't have an AVR just yet, although looking at the Yamaha YHT-49 and Onkyo HT-S3500.

Also taking a keen interest in the Vizio s425, which is a soundbar but has one several high key awards, offers true surround with bluetooth, and won best of CES 2013 by Cnet.

I'm just wondering if a receiver really offers an advantage, at least at that price range.

Between my TV and couch is a commonly used passageway, so I'd rather not have speakers going through there.

Wireless is just much, much neater to me, and I don't see why it isn't more prevalent. I would prefer not to use a bridge such as the device recommend. I will if that is the only option, but still don't understand why it isn't a standard feature by now.

Budget is 3, maybe $400. I've never had a home theater before, so don't have fancy requirements. Just want to appreciate downloaded movies and Netflix in HD.

Would like everything to turn on and off with the TV as I won't be using it without the TV. It's smart TV and I have no external appliances, nor will I.
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post #8 of 25 Old 06-27-2014, 08:50 PM
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I use Bluetooth for my TV and MP3 player wireless headphones - it's good but it is far from perfect. It has to be paired every time it is turned on, there is a noticeable delay with TV, and some transmitters are flaky. I use a Sony HWS-BTA2W transmitter with my TV and it works way better than others I tried.

The other problem with wireless speakers is that they are powered remotely by often underpowered built-in amplifiers - the external solution I recommended has 30w of power that can power "real" speakers - very hard to find in stand alone wireless speakers - I've looked and I don't see them.

Doesn't mean there isn't one, but I've never seen a TV or an AVR with a built-in Bluetooth transmitter. That would be a nice feature but probably expensive to add. Most TVs don't even go to the extra expense of adding preamp outputs or even a headphone jack.

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post #9 of 25 Old 06-28-2014, 12:07 AM
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Electronics wise, other than more power, I can't say what the exact advantages of an AVR are over a sound bar - but there is a huge advantage for standard speakers over soundbar speakers.

The tiny drivers in a soundbar just can't compete with standard speakers - the 2.5" and 3" "woofers" in that soundbar can't reproduce mid bass frequencies like 5.25" or 6.5" drivers in standard speakers. And the sub can only go so high before becoming locatable so there will be a dip in mid bass - those critical frequencies that can make speaker systems sound thin or hollow - same problem with most "micro" satellite systems.

With a budget of $400, you would be hard pressed to get decent speakers and an AVR - so maybe a sound bar is your only option - but you can get 5 "real" speakers for $400 and a very modest sub for another $100 that would embarrass a soundbar - but then you would also need an AVR and that would be at least another $200 for a total of $700

http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-TSi.../dp/B00192KF12
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-Cen.../dp/B0018QROM2
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-10-.../dp/B0002KVQBA

I don't usually recommend HTIB (home theater in a box) products, but they are in that price range as well.

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post #10 of 25 Old 06-28-2014, 12:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtn-tech View Post
Electronics wise, other than more power, I can't say what the exact advantages of an AVR are over a sound bar - but there is a huge advantage for standard speakers over soundbar speakers.

The tiny drivers in a soundbar just can't compete with standard speakers - the 2.5" and 3" "woofers" in that soundbar can't reproduce mid bass frequencies like 5.25" or 6.5" drivers in standard speakers. And the sub can only go so high before becoming locatable so there will be a dip in mid bass - those critical frequencies that can make speaker systems sound thin or hollow - same problem with most "micro" satellite systems.

With a budget of $400, you would be hard pressed to get decent speakers and an AVR - so maybe a sound bar is your only option - but you can get 5 "real" speakers for $400 and a very modest sub for another $100 that would embarrass a soundbar - but then you would also need an AVR and that would be at least another $200 for a total of $700

http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-TSi.../dp/B00192KF12
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-Cen.../dp/B0018QROM2
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-10-.../dp/B0002KVQBA

I don't usually recommend HTIB (home theater in a box) products, but they are in that price range as well.
Thanks for all your advice and help.

The vizio soundbar is interesting to me because of the awards it has received, and because I suspect it's sufficient for my needs. I've had just my TV speakers for 9 months and haven't had an issue, so I'm not too picky with sound.

The Yamaha YHT-497 was about $500 and is on sale for $300, which seemed like a good deal. The speakers are probably not great though, but wondering if it's a good deal to get the receiver and upgrade to better speakers later on?

This is the page I'm looking at: http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-YHT-497..._cd_ql_qh_dp_t
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post #11 of 25 Old 07-05-2014, 07:34 PM
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I just started looking to see if a wireless "whole" home audio system exists: We would use it to distribute music.
My preliminary search, tonite, has turned up:
http://www.samsung.com/us/video/home-audio/WAM250/ZA
and something from a company called Sonos

I think they both make use of wifi.

I was thinking there might be a system that could use bluetooth - but only can use one BT speaker at a time

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post #12 of 25 Old 07-07-2014, 12:53 PM
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Here is a wireless surround speaker - the only catch is the cost. It has a transmitter, receiver and amplifier built in, and of course the speakers themselves. List price of $400 for one integrated surround speaker where a PAIR of their similar wired surround speaker has a street price of $100 - $200 per pair.

http://www.polkaudio.com/products/series/fx

http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-Wir.../dp/B0049Z89MS

http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-Mon.../dp/B009WSLBJK

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Last edited by mtn-tech; 07-10-2014 at 04:01 PM.
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post #13 of 25 Old 07-10-2014, 03:58 PM
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Another wireless surround solution:

Use traditional speakers for the front 3 and buy an AVR that had surround channel preamp outputs (most AVR's under $600 don't have them), connect the Sonos "Bridge" to the AVR and configure the Play:3 speakers to L / R stereo operation. Price? At least another $200 for an AVR with preamp outputs, the Sonos "Connect" for $350 and two Play:3 speakers at $300 each - total of about $1150 for two wireless surround speakers.

http://www.sonos.com/system

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post #14 of 25 Old 07-10-2014, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snidely View Post
I just started looking to see if a wireless "whole" home audio system exists: We would use it to distribute music ... and something from a company called Sonos. I think they both make use of wifi. I was thinking there might be a system that could use bluetooth - but only can use one BT speaker at a time
You could get a Bluetooth capable AVR with zone B preamp outputs (many have this feature) - this could run your home theater 7.1 wired system (when watching movies) and you could use the zone B outputs (when listening to Bluetooth audio from your phone) to feed a Sonos system and have up to 31 wireless speakers throughout the house.

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post #15 of 25 Old 07-10-2014, 08:54 PM
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I'm having good results with the Rocketfish wireless speaker kit. Costs about $100. Small transmitter connects to your avr, with a slightly larger receiver for the speakers. The receiver has a built in 2 channel amp, so you use it with passive speakers. I'm also using the Rocketfish wireless subwoofer kit with good results too. I can't tell the difference between wired and wireless.
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post #16 of 25 Old 07-11-2014, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by crn3371 View Post
I'm having good results with the Rocketfish wireless speaker kit. Costs about $100. Small transmitter connects to your avr, with a slightly larger receiver for the speakers. The receiver has a built in 2 channel amp, so you use it with passive speakers. I'm also using the Rocketfish wireless subwoofer kit with good results too. I can't tell the difference between wired and wireless.
Thanks for the recommendation. I assume that your AVR has preamp outputs for the transmitter to connect to?

The OP wanted to use a built-in Bluetooth feature in an AVR and I am still not aware that there is such a feature in any AVR. He didn't want to use an "external solution". Much like your Rocketfish solution, I recommended an Outlaw Audio version that has a 30wpc amplifier and he wasn't interested in that either.

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post #17 of 25 Old 07-13-2014, 10:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mtn-tech View Post
Thanks for the recommendation. I assume that your AVR has preamp outputs for the transmitter to connect to?

The OP wanted to use a built-in Bluetooth feature in an AVR and I am still not aware that there is such a feature in any AVR. He didn't want to use an "external solution". Much like your Rocketfish solution, I recommended an Outlaw Audio version that has a 30wpc amplifier and he wasn't interested in that either.
I was just kind of shocked no receivers include bluetooth.

I'm looking into the solutions you suggested, as well as the vizio soundbars that do 5.1 and bluetooth.
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post #18 of 25 Old 07-14-2014, 12:37 AM
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There are receivers with Bluetooth but I don't think for connecting surround or remote speakers. Its for connecting your smartphone to stream audio.

Quote:
Thanks for the recommendation. I assume that your AVR has preamp outputs for the transmitter to connect to?


No, you don't need preamp outputs for the Rocketfish. It just uses the speaker terminals from the receiver.

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post #19 of 25 Old 07-14-2014, 12:41 AM
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My opinion is that I think you can do wireless speakers, but the plain truth is that they suck. Even if you had a $1000 transmitter, it's going to be inferior in sound quality compared to a $10 piece of wire. Don't forget that the speaker still has to be powered in some way, so there's still going to be an AC power connection for the speaker's amplifier. And battery-powered speakers ain't gonna cut it in a home theater.

I think you have to resign yourself to figuring out a way to pull the wire through the walls, even if it involves hiring a professional electrician to spend a couple of hours "fishing" for the wire and getting it to where it needs to be. It can be done, and it's not that hard, but I think the results are far superior to wireless speakers. Remind yourself you only have to do it once, then it's done for as long as you live in that house. (Or until you add or change the speaker configuration in the room.)
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post #20 of 25 Old 07-14-2014, 06:45 AM - Thread Starter
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My opinion is that I think you can do wireless speakers, but the plain truth is that they suck. Even if you had a $1000 transmitter, it's going to be inferior in sound quality compared to a $10 piece of wire.
Thing is, there is no reason that has to be true. Bluetooth speakers should sound just as good as wired.

Not saying it isn't true, just surprised it still is true in 2014.
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post #21 of 25 Old 07-14-2014, 06:39 PM
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Thing is, there is no reason that has to be true. Bluetooth speakers should sound just as good as wired. Not saying it isn't true, just surprised it still is true in 2014.
It is not true in my experience because of the cheap analog stages in the Bluetooth transmitters. The measurements are not good.

My point on the need for AC power is still true. You gotta have a wire for power going to the speakers; what's one more wire for audio?
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post #22 of 25 Old 07-14-2014, 06:53 PM - Thread Starter
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It is not true in my experience because of the cheap analog stages in the Bluetooth transmitters. The measurements are not good.

My point on the need for AC power is still true. You gotta have a wire for power going to the speakers; what's one more wire for audio?
Not disagreeing about Bluetooth, I just think it's odd is all.

Power cables don't have to run between my TV and couch.
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post #23 of 25 Old 07-16-2014, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Wielage View Post
My opinion is that I think you can do wireless speakers, but the plain truth is that they suck. Even if you had a $1000 transmitter, it's going to be inferior in sound quality compared to a $10 piece of wire.
It is true - especially when you already have an AVR with the built in amplifiers needed to power the surround speakers. There could be true high fidelity Bluetooth speakers with high end drivers, 100w amplifiers and a transmitter that could send audio to two surround speakers, but they would probably cost over $1000 and there would be very little market.

Bluetooth speakers are currently $50 disposable items to hear your phone music better - not hifi replacements that I can find.

Quote:
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I think you have to resign yourself to figuring out a way to pull the wire through the walls ... It can be done, and it's not that hard, but I think the results are far superior to wireless speakers.
Agree 100% - you already paid for the surround amplifiers so use them, there are a lot of methods to pull wire or just hide the wire behind paintable covers so they are nearly invisible which cost a fraction of wireless speakers - which is why these wireless solutions don't exist.
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post #24 of 25 Old 07-16-2014, 10:35 AM
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Wisa

Wisa http://www.wisaassociation.org/ is just getting started and should "quality wise" beat out Bluetooth.
Unfortunately not to many speakers and receivers out there yet.
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post #25 of 25 Old 07-16-2014, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtn-tech View Post
It is true - especially when you already have an AVR with the built in amplifiers needed to power the surround speakers. There could be true high fidelity Bluetooth speakers with high end drivers, 100w amplifiers and a transmitter that could send audio to two surround speakers, but they would probably cost over $1000 and there would be very little market.

Bluetooth speakers are currently $50 disposable items to hear your phone music better - not hifi replacements that I can find.
I'm not disagreeing (nor have I in this thread), my point is only that the Bluetooth protocol more than allows for streaming of high quality lossless audio.

I think it's very strange that no company has made no high quality affordable Bluetooth speakers. Maybe the demand isn't high enough, that must be the only explanation, because the technology is more than capable and has been for years.
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