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Wireless speakers

10K views 53 replies 16 participants last post by  speakersdaily 
#1 ·
Is it possible to have wireless speakers via Bluetooth or something else, without a second receiver?

If so, what receivers support this, or what is the technology called?
 
#3 ·
There are a bunch of different ways to get wireless speakers - you can use wireless / Bluetooth speakers, get a wireless Transmitter / receiver and use standard speakers, or buy a pre-packaged setup:

http://www.amazon.com/b?node=172572

I have had some limited success and some friends have had limited success with them as well - but there isn't any 100% perfect technology that I know about yet - you are going to get occasional static or cutouts.

Try this one - this is one of the better units out there:

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/OAW3.html
 
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#5 ·
Power isn't an issue, many outlets behind the couch...

I know wireless speakers exist, but have not found a receiver that works well with them.

I would have thought there would be plenty of Bluetooth receivers, as the protocol allows streaming HD quality without issue, and there are already many high quality portable BT speakers.

Kind of surprised there are not high quality surround Bluetooth speakers.

I've been looking at this system: http://www.amazon.com/VIZIO-S4251w-B4-Soundbar-Subwoofer-Satellite/dp/B00CDIK908/ref=lp_172572_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1403843985&sr=1-2

It's a Soundbar but seems to meet all my criteria, aside from bot being a receiver.

I don't understand why it's so hard to find an equivalent setup but with a receiver.
 
#6 ·
That soundbar would probably be an improvement over your TV sound, but don't expect true "home theater" sound - they simply don't have the volume or dialog clarity / intelligibility that an AVR with real speakers are going to give you. My dad has a Vizio soundbar and it is just OK - better than TV speakers, but not impressive "home theater sound" by any measure.

Give us more details - what are you trying to do and what is your budget?

This transmitter and receiver/amplifier will connect to any AVR with preamp outputs and will power any standard speakers - this will allow you to power your surround speakers without speaker wires and solves your problem:

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/OAWA3.htm

Do you already have an AVR and don't know how to connect this? If so, what AVR do you have?

Why not just run wires for the rear channels? Do you live in a rental that you cannot add speaker wires? This is a bit of work but it will save you money and give you the best possible sound - check out this website:

http://www.audiogurus.com/learn/speakers/running-wires-surround-sound/70
 
#7 ·
That soundbar would probably be an improvement over your TV sound, but don't expect true "home theater" sound - they simply don't have the volume or dialog clarity / intelligibility that an AVR with real speakers are going to give you. My dad has a Vizio soundbar and it is just OK - better than TV speakers, but not impressive "home theater sound" by any measure.

Give us more details - what are you trying to do and what is your budget?

This transmitter and receiver/amplifier will connect to any AVR with preamp outputs and will power any standard speakers - this will allow you to power your surround speakers without speaker wires and solves your problem:

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/OAWA3.htm

Do you already have an AVR and don't know how to connect this? If so, what AVR do you have?

Why not just run wires for the rear channels? Do you live in a rental that you cannot add speaker wires? This is a bit of work but it will save you money and give you the best possible sound - check out this website:
I'm not trying to dispute or argue with people that know better, I'd just like to understand.

A wireless speaker has no reason to sound worse than a wired speaker if connected via Bluetooth. The protocol has more than enough bandwidth to handle HD surround sound, so I don't understand why there is not a market for these speakers.

I don't have an AVR just yet, although looking at the Yamaha YHT-49 and Onkyo HT-S3500.

Also taking a keen interest in the Vizio s425, which is a soundbar but has one several high key awards, offers true surround with bluetooth, and won best of CES 2013 by Cnet.

I'm just wondering if a receiver really offers an advantage, at least at that price range.

Between my TV and couch is a commonly used passageway, so I'd rather not have speakers going through there.

Wireless is just much, much neater to me, and I don't see why it isn't more prevalent. I would prefer not to use a bridge such as the device recommend. I will if that is the only option, but still don't understand why it isn't a standard feature by now.

Budget is 3, maybe $400. I've never had a home theater before, so don't have fancy requirements. Just want to appreciate downloaded movies and Netflix in HD.

Would like everything to turn on and off with the TV as I won't be using it without the TV. It's smart TV and I have no external appliances, nor will I.
 
#8 ·
I use Bluetooth for my TV and MP3 player wireless headphones - it's good but it is far from perfect. It has to be paired every time it is turned on, there is a noticeable delay with TV, and some transmitters are flaky. I use a Sony HWS-BTA2W transmitter with my TV and it works way better than others I tried.

The other problem with wireless speakers is that they are powered remotely by often underpowered built-in amplifiers - the external solution I recommended has 30w of power that can power "real" speakers - very hard to find in stand alone wireless speakers - I've looked and I don't see them.

Doesn't mean there isn't one, but I've never seen a TV or an AVR with a built-in Bluetooth transmitter. That would be a nice feature but probably expensive to add. Most TVs don't even go to the extra expense of adding preamp outputs or even a headphone jack.
 
#9 ·
Electronics wise, other than more power, I can't say what the exact advantages of an AVR are over a sound bar - but there is a huge advantage for standard speakers over soundbar speakers.

The tiny drivers in a soundbar just can't compete with standard speakers - the 2.5" and 3" "woofers" in that soundbar can't reproduce mid bass frequencies like 5.25" or 6.5" drivers in standard speakers. And the sub can only go so high before becoming locatable so there will be a dip in mid bass - those critical frequencies that can make speaker systems sound thin or hollow - same problem with most "micro" satellite systems.

With a budget of $400, you would be hard pressed to get decent speakers and an AVR - so maybe a sound bar is your only option - but you can get 5 "real" speakers for $400 and a very modest sub for another $100 that would embarrass a soundbar - but then you would also need an AVR and that would be at least another $200 for a total of $700

http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-TSi100-Bookshelf-Speakers/dp/B00192KF12
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-Center-Channel-Speaker/dp/B0018QROM2
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-10-Inch-Powered-Subwoofer/dp/B0002KVQBA

I don't usually recommend HTIB (home theater in a box) products, but they are in that price range as well.
 
#10 ·
Electronics wise, other than more power, I can't say what the exact advantages of an AVR are over a sound bar - but there is a huge advantage for standard speakers over soundbar speakers.

The tiny drivers in a soundbar just can't compete with standard speakers - the 2.5" and 3" "woofers" in that soundbar can't reproduce mid bass frequencies like 5.25" or 6.5" drivers in standard speakers. And the sub can only go so high before becoming locatable so there will be a dip in mid bass - those critical frequencies that can make speaker systems sound thin or hollow - same problem with most "micro" satellite systems.

With a budget of $400, you would be hard pressed to get decent speakers and an AVR - so maybe a sound bar is your only option - but you can get 5 "real" speakers for $400 and a very modest sub for another $100 that would embarrass a soundbar - but then you would also need an AVR and that would be at least another $200 for a total of $700

http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-TSi100-Bookshelf-Speakers/dp/B00192KF12
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-Center-Channel-Speaker/dp/B0018QROM2
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-10-Inch-Powered-Subwoofer/dp/B0002KVQBA

I don't usually recommend HTIB (home theater in a box) products, but they are in that price range as well.
Thanks for all your advice and help.

The vizio soundbar is interesting to me because of the awards it has received, and because I suspect it's sufficient for my needs. I've had just my TV speakers for 9 months and haven't had an issue, so I'm not too picky with sound.

The Yamaha YHT-497 was about $500 and is on sale for $300, which seemed like a good deal. The speakers are probably not great though, but wondering if it's a good deal to get the receiver and upgrade to better speakers later on?

This is the page I'm looking at: http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-YHT-497-5-1-Channel-Theater-System/dp/B007PU2Y4S/ref=cm_cd_ql_qh_dp_t
 
#11 ·
I just started looking to see if a wireless "whole" home audio system exists: We would use it to distribute music.
My preliminary search, tonite, has turned up:
http://www.samsung.com/us/video/home-audio/WAM250/ZA
and something from a company called Sonos

I think they both make use of wifi.

I was thinking there might be a system that could use bluetooth - but only can use one BT speaker at a time

mike
 
#14 ·
I just started looking to see if a wireless "whole" home audio system exists: We would use it to distribute music ... and something from a company called Sonos. I think they both make use of wifi. I was thinking there might be a system that could use bluetooth - but only can use one BT speaker at a time
You could get a Bluetooth capable AVR with zone B preamp outputs (many have this feature) - this could run your home theater 7.1 wired system (when watching movies) and you could use the zone B outputs (when listening to Bluetooth audio from your phone) to feed a Sonos system and have up to 31 wireless speakers throughout the house.
 
#12 · (Edited)
#13 ·
Another wireless surround solution:

Use traditional speakers for the front 3 and buy an AVR that had surround channel preamp outputs (most AVR's under $600 don't have them), connect the Sonos "Bridge" to the AVR and configure the Play:3 speakers to L / R stereo operation. Price? At least another $200 for an AVR with preamp outputs, the Sonos "Connect" for $350 and two Play:3 speakers at $300 each - total of about $1150 for two wireless surround speakers.

http://www.sonos.com/system
 
#15 ·
I'm having good results with the Rocketfish wireless speaker kit. Costs about $100. Small transmitter connects to your avr, with a slightly larger receiver for the speakers. The receiver has a built in 2 channel amp, so you use it with passive speakers. I'm also using the Rocketfish wireless subwoofer kit with good results too. I can't tell the difference between wired and wireless.
 
#16 ·
Thanks for the recommendation. I assume that your AVR has preamp outputs for the transmitter to connect to?

The OP wanted to use a built-in Bluetooth feature in an AVR and I am still not aware that there is such a feature in any AVR. He didn't want to use an "external solution". Much like your Rocketfish solution, I recommended an Outlaw Audio version that has a 30wpc amplifier and he wasn't interested in that either.
 
#18 ·
There are receivers with Bluetooth but I don't think for connecting surround or remote speakers. Its for connecting your smartphone to stream audio.

Thanks for the recommendation. I assume that your AVR has preamp outputs for the transmitter to connect to?


No, you don't need preamp outputs for the Rocketfish. It just uses the speaker terminals from the receiver.
 
#19 ·
My opinion is that I think you can do wireless speakers, but the plain truth is that they suck. Even if you had a $1000 transmitter, it's going to be inferior in sound quality compared to a $10 piece of wire. Don't forget that the speaker still has to be powered in some way, so there's still going to be an AC power connection for the speaker's amplifier. And battery-powered speakers ain't gonna cut it in a home theater.

I think you have to resign yourself to figuring out a way to pull the wire through the walls, even if it involves hiring a professional electrician to spend a couple of hours "fishing" for the wire and getting it to where it needs to be. It can be done, and it's not that hard, but I think the results are far superior to wireless speakers. Remind yourself you only have to do it once, then it's done for as long as you live in that house. (Or until you add or change the speaker configuration in the room.)
 
#20 ·
My opinion is that I think you can do wireless speakers, but the plain truth is that they suck. Even if you had a $1000 transmitter, it's going to be inferior in sound quality compared to a $10 piece of wire.
Thing is, there is no reason that has to be true. Bluetooth speakers should sound just as good as wired.

Not saying it isn't true, just surprised it still is true in 2014.
 
#26 · (Edited)
2017-March update

I've also been looking for wireless speakers that can be set up in a stereo, or even better, 5.1 configuration. Here's what I've found:

  • Oppo Sonica Wi-Fi speakers - 2016-Oct review. Each speaker supports Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, USB storage, DLNA and 1/8" aux in. Two speakers can be configured in steore mode. No aptX support unfortunately, as of October 2016. Doubt that a firmware update would add aptX. $300 each.
  • Riva S portable Bluetooth speakers - March 2016 review, Amazon link. Two speakers can be configured in stereo mode. 30-watt Class D amplifier. $150 each.
  • JBL Extrene Wireless Bluetooth speakers - can be paired for stereo sound. $217 each. Water resistant. Has a mic and works as speakerphone. Probably no aptX support.
  • Denon HEOS 3 - can also be configured as a stereo pair. $300 each. aptX support not mentioned on the Amazon product page or on the manufacturer's page. Supports USB and NAS sources.
  • Bose SoundTouch 10 - can be linked in a stereo configuration, but apparently doesn't support aptX
  • Sonos - the most popular wireless speakers. They come at different price points: "PLAY:1" at $200 (only supporting streaming from online source), PLAY:3 (which some reviewers don't recomment), PLAY:5 ($500, still without Bluetooth support), a subwoofer, and a soundbar. The whole 5.1 setup costs ~$1800. Sonos is a closed ecosystem and like with Apple, you're locked into Sonos hardware, but the app is really nice.
  • Aiwa Exos-9 Portable Bluetooth Speaker - full 5/5 rating on Amazon, with 669 reviews. 200 watts of continuous power. Onboard graphic EQ. 9-hour battery life. aptX.
    LINK TWO Exos-9s FOR MASSIVE SOUND - Link two units together in either a dual stereo or stereo separated configuration to entertain a 75-guest party that will surely draw the attention of your neighbors and local authorities.
  • Play-Fi is a standard that lets you add speakers from various compliant manufacturers and setup surround configurations.
 
#27 ·
i just recently purchased 2 Definitive Technology W7 Wireless speakers ($399) and they sound pretty good (to me.) I was looking for a whole house solution and didn't want to rely on Bluetooth. I just need to figure out how i'm going to connect them to my AVR (Onkyo NR656.) According to an email from their tech support, Onkyo doesn't support Play-Fi but I according to this press release they've partnered up with up with DTS for Play-FI:

2016/09/02 Pioneer and Onkyo join DTS Play-Fi® Wireless Audio Ecosystem in wide-reaching Agreement



I'm hoping they do upgrade the AVR's, otherwise I will have to get an adapter, cheapest one I've seen is one from Polk. Really interested in other's experiences as I'm tempted to add a DT W9 and adapter to my Home Theater. Add to this that Amazon and DTS have announced that Play-Fi is coming to the Alexa. This will allow me to walk around the house and give voice commands to play music to my wireless speakers. Can't wait!


 
#29 · (Edited)
Not sure. I'll test that out later today and get back to you.

Update: Well, looks like I can't stream music from the aux input of one W7 to the other. I have no problem playing from the aux input of one W7 though. According to Play-Fi this feature should work, but I can't get the DT's to work. I also came across this while researching.

Wireless Speakers: Definitive Technology – Steven Matison



I contacted DT, waiting for a response but this may be a deal breaker.
 
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#37 ·
dandv
Yeah, the link is in my response from a few days ago....

.... According to Play-Fi this feature should work, but I can't get the DT's to work. I also came across this while researching.
Wireless Speakers: Definitive Technology – Steven Matison
From that DTS Play-Fi link...

Certain Play-Fi products have the capability to capture audio from one of their on-board audio inputs and then redistribute it through a Play-Fi group. We call this Line-In Streaming, and speakers paired together streaming from Line-In are called a Line-In Zone.
To initiate a Line-In Zone, simply tap on the Add Zone button—which is the little + icon at the top of the main Play-Fi Control screen—then select the Line-In option. If your network has a Play-Fi product that supports Line-In Streaming, the Line-In Zone Module will display and list the products you can pick to lead the zone.
 
#30 ·
Well, DT confirmed that audio from aux in of one speaker can't be played across the network to another speaker. Sucks since Play-Fi supports this, just not DT.

Still holding out on Onkyo's fireconnect solution(ie their NCP-302). Hoping that and or Amazon Alexa's announced support of Play-Fi will check all the boxes I'm looking for.
 
#31 · (Edited)
Well, DT confirmed that audio from aux in of one speaker can't be played across the network to another speaker. Sucks since Play-Fi supports this, just not DT.
The inability to play audio in through both speakers is kinda lame indeed!

I've just tested this with my Oppo Sonica's configured in a stereo pair. Connected a 3.5mm cable into one of the Sonicas, and the audio came out nicely through both speakers. But when I connected the cable to the other speaker, there was no sound. And that act of connecting to the other speaker screwed up the entire pair - no matter to which speaker I connected the cable afterwards, no sound whatsoever. Along with the other more than annoying connectivity problems I've had with the Sonicas, looks like I'll be returning them. :-(

Another Play-Fi speaker I'm testing, Phorus PS5, didn't do any better than the DT. Audio played out of the speaker I connected the 3.5mm cable to. No stereo.
 
#33 ·
Uggh. It's like these companies are deliberately making sure there's no one size fits all product.

I saw the HEOS at BB and honestly only chose the DT because of the look and it did sound a little better. I may just exchange the DT's but the line in across all speakers function isn't really something I would miss. I would just be bothered that the feature isn't available for the brand I chose.
 
#38 ·
I should also note that in an attempt to get a low cost solution to add my HT to the play-fi network, i purchased a Polk Omni P1 and connected it to my AVR. Works fine, but again, I'm unable to get the line in function to work. I reached out to both DTS and Polk.

Looks like I'm gonna have to take the plunge and try the Denon's.
 
#40 ·
Sorry if your reading this in more than one thread but I am really happy with my solution: This long review sets out how I used two bluetooth v4.1 transmitter/receivers with two 3.5mm bluetooth v4.2 audio receiver adapters (4 units total) to get truly wireless sound so I go into specifics of all the components I used. It is really long because I plan on re-posting this in several forums as far as I know no one has done this. Throughout the review I have used the long product names so that you can actually find what I used.

In terms of the trond products they are great the key to my solution was aptx ll (which is why you need both a transmitter and receiver). I have the units about 20 feet apart and I get a clear signal and the latency is extremely low/NOT NOTICEABLE especially when paired with corrected receiver settings (more details below). You can run two complete setups (4 units total) with no interference. Pairing is excellent and I have had no dropouts. I couldn't be happier and trond support while not knowing if my solution would work were honest in letting me know they had no idea if my solution would work.

My detailed setup (with tax this solution was over $700 Canadian ($130 trond units/$520 speakers/$55 powerbanks/$40 speaker stands/$20 connectors) so definitely not cheap but truly wireless ZERO WIRES and the 5.1 field is very impressive),

YOU NEED TWO OF EVERYTHING! (this is just the one channel- you would need the exact same stuff for the other surround sound channel)

Marantz receiver (not included in the cost obviously) pre out (if you don't have preouts on your receiver you could possibly use a line out converter- something I thought of while working this solution).

I am running the line out to a FosPower Y adapter 1 RCA (Male) to 2 RCA (Female) Stereo Audio Adapter Cable ($10ish dollars)- you need this cable to run out the mono out and split it so it can connect the RCA to stereo cable included with the trond (it also amplifies the pre-out signal 4db at the line level which is key because it allows your rear speakers to play significantly louder).

You then connect those cables to the trond transmitter that you have paired to the trond receiver. I just followed the pairing instructions included with the trond units but I would suggest taking the units away from all other Bluetooth sources including turning off the Bluetooth on your phone. Once they are initially paired they stay paired and I had no issues with interference/switching sources.

At the front end I have the trond receivers plugged into usb wall plugs (so I guess I do have wires but you need to run your receiver off of something- if you needed to you could use a powerbank like I do for the rear speakers). You will want to use wall plugs or a powerbank as when plugged into a computer usb outlet I did pick up some hum.

At the rear end I have the trond receiver plugged into a Bose soundlink mini ii via aux (why I chose the bose it is at the end of the review) and plugged into a 20,000 mah aukey powerbank (I choose it because it was cheap and a good form factor so really any high capacity powerbank will do). I have them mounted on Boost industries WB-1134 ultra grip clamping speaker wall brackets (I chose these because they looked like they would work and were cheap- I highly recommend them, the build quality is great and they are half the price of others- but if something else looks good go for them).

Receiver settings- most receivers will let you set speaker distances my marantz has my fronts set at 14 feet away (because they are) but I set the rears to 34 feet away (when they are actually only 9 feet away- I am limited by my receiver to the channels only having 20 feet of distance between them). By setting the rears 25 feet farther away my receiver processes the rear channels approximately 21 milliseconds faster than the signal actually needs to be. As aptx ll delay is 40ms I have been able to reduce the overall delay to 20ish ms (1 second equals 1,000 ms). As films are 24 FPS you are seeing a frame every 41 ms as a result obviously there is zero noticeable delay as my rear audio is HALF a frame late. I would suggest you check your receiver settings to see what you can specifically do with it.

Balancing sound- I have Golden Ear 3d array X for my LCR speakers, I am running the Bose speakers 13DB higher to achieve balanced sound (confirmed through phone DB meter). I have no problems achieving balanced sound up to 85DB with the rears configured like this- although that was just for a brief period of testing as I watch my movies generally around 70DB when I want full blown sound.

Bose soundlink mini ii- I thought there would be lots of speaker options but it turns out there were few that met my criteria which you will want to keep in mind.
1. Play loud enough without distortion
2. Can be charged via USB- this is key to having a truly wireless system
3. Are a traditional front firing speaker (lots of the portable speaker options are designed to produce a 360 degree sound field.
4. Don't have an auto off feature (or is the case with the bose the auto off can be turned off).

In terms of battery life- the trond units use very little/negligible power compared to the wireless speaker. I honestly need to do WAY more testing before giving an accurate time estimate on the bose speakers but I can say that they sip power when on but not playing a signal (I have the tronds on ready to work and the bose on but just the receiver off and obviously not using power). So far the figures I am getting is that I can have the bose powered on for the whole week and watch roughly 40 hours of tv/movies before the aukey and bose is drained. Changing the battery once a week is a small price to pay for 5.1 PLEASE TAKE THESE ESTIMATES WITH A HUGE GRAIN OF SALT as I do need to test further. I will say based on what I have been seeing these are conservative estimates.

Yes this solution is expensive. If you can run wires obviously do it- you would have way better speaker options and no battery packs so it is 100% better option. If you can run power plugs to your rear speakers and your only issue is not wiring speaker cable, you once again have a ton more options with several of the speaker companies offering "wireless" options. Although I would consider the trond solution even in that scenario since it only cost me $130 for the transmitters/receivers and you could just plug them into any powered speaker that has an aux in.



Will update with long term thoughts.
 
#46 ·
...
By the way, in the meantime I've also been studying and testing wireless speaker options (Play-Fi, Bluetooth low latency, Sonos, ChromecastAudio, WISA) for the past month and have published my findings.:cool:
Nice write up dandv.

I haven't really had any problems with my Play-Fi setup. In fact, after trying the much anticipated Fireconnect device with my AVR, I'm now convinced that for the money and convenience, Play-Fi is my best option. I only play music off my server and the only real issue I've run into is that trying to use the PC app is really hit or miss. Using my phone has been pretty reliable. I get no cutoffs or interference and the DT W7's I use sound pretty good. Just need to add one more device, either the DT W9 or the HEOS 7 if I can find a good price on either, and I'll be set.
 
#43 · (Edited)
Sorry the wisa would be zero (with correction if hooked to an avr) vs 20ms so they are not the same in lag- wisa is better. But in terms of the enclave solution your stuck with a crap front end. As I said my solution isn't for everyone but it is actually wireless and I can't detect any lag (although others could be more sensitive). If there is a better solution I would love to see it
 
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