AccuEQ Vs Audyssey - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 1783 Old 08-18-2014, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
true....there has no been no one that has demoed both spoke about they heard
See numerous posts in this very thread. One need not own AccuEQ to have experience with un-EQ'd L/R vs. EQ'd L/R since this can be and has been compared using many other products.

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Have you ever been to higher audio store and listed to some higher end components play 2 channel music

reference products

with vinyl recordings even

if you have... then you know what I mean

Warren
What I know is that after owning and using a number of high end analog preamps which I then thought were great, I purchased a 2ch pre/pro with good room correction and never looked back. The improvement from linear, L/R matched FR was that impressive.
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post #632 of 1783 Old 08-18-2014, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by SyntheticShrimp View Post
Linear by what measurement? The direct sound? Single point or multiple point In room response? Sound power? For the most part, flatness in one comes at the expense of the others.

Good, unequalized speakers may have flatter direct sound than those equalized according to the in-room response.
True but do we hear only the direct sound?

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post #633 of 1783 Old 08-18-2014, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

At the time...that was one of my driving factors in buying one
...and the low relative price of course...the first 875 I bought was a silver refurb bought for like $570...

Klipsch speakers usually pretty efficient....so I cant speak to the "need" to have an external amp

Though that could clearly be variable with which amp and what AVR was in question

Warren
The variable I was interested in was the ability to drive speakers that had impedance dips down to 3.2 Ohms in a multichannel configuration which the THX Ultra II AVRs were certified to drive....Along with the 114 watts x 7 you referred to, I was also impressed with the 182 watts x 2 it delivered....Between those two numbers and the ability to drive lower impedance speakers (or ones like I have that had a jagged Frequency Response curve that dip below 4 Ohms) was what I was looking for.

For the record, I too was looking for a cheaper alternative than the Denon, but real-world experience from the users that were posting made me reconsider (at least for my needs).
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post #634 of 1783 Old 08-18-2014, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Simply switch off any EQ in your current two channel setup and you'll know how AccuEQ will sound
thanks i'll try that

My main setup PN60E8000 / Directv genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray Onkyo TX-NR 1030 7.2.4 /Onkyo M-5010 Amplifier for top middle Bic Acoustech speakers,MICCA M-8S FH/TM on wall / in ceiling speakers / 2 Bic F12 subs
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post #635 of 1783 Old 08-18-2014, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
True but do we hear only the direct sound?
No, but I would argue that its high up on a hierarchy of parameters of a system, and compromising it should be very carefully considered.
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post #636 of 1783 Old 08-18-2014, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by SyntheticShrimp View Post
No, but I would argue that its high up on a hierarchy of parameters of a system, and compromising it should be very carefully considered.
And yet we virtually never see how good a pair of speakers match each other. Consumers would be surprised how large variance can be. Professional reviewers should test this.
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post #637 of 1783 Old 08-18-2014, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
And yet we virtually never see how good a pair of speakers match each other. Consumers would be surprised how large variance can be. Professional reviewers should test this.
Also true.

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post #638 of 1783 Old 08-18-2014, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
And yet we virtually never see how good a pair of speakers match each other. Consumers would be surprised how large variance can be. Professional reviewers should test this.
Not to mention the variation between L and R etc. in your average home listening situation. Even in my physically symmetrical room, each sidewall has different windows, doors etc. etc. and they're anything but acoustically symmetric.
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post #639 of 1783 Old 08-18-2014, 01:54 PM
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post #640 of 1783 Old 08-18-2014, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by KMFDMvsEnya View Post
I do not need to drive a Pinto to know that it will not perform as well as a Porsche. Mmm, wonder why I can make that safe assumption, perhaps due to objective verifiable data.

Twenty pages wasted debating with a delusional individual that refuses to admit being wrong, horrendously in error.

Best regards,
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+1.
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post #641 of 1783 Old 08-18-2014, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by RUR View Post
Not to mention the variation between L and R etc. in your average home listening situation. Even in my physically symmetrical room, each sidewall has different windows, doors etc. etc. and they're anything but acoustically symmetric.
That is something the user can control and measure. Free field speaker performance is virtually impossible to test by the user.

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post #642 of 1783 Old 08-18-2014, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
Onkyo 818. The first real sub I was referring to was the SVS CS20-39 that I purchased when SVS first started. That was 2001 I believe. I have had multiple iterations since then.
Thank you. ...Good stuff; Okyo 818 (Audyssey MultEQ XT32) and SVS subs (great performance and value).

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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Unfortunately there're no selections in the market that meet my needs.
Markus, what kind of system setup do you have @ home. ...Which audio/video components and loudspeakers and subwoofers are you using. ...How many channels all together, and what type of room is your main sanctuary for audio and video bliss.

And, what kind of music, and movies, do you love listening to/watching, and from which mediums?

Thank you for your cooperation.
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post #643 of 1783 Old 08-18-2014, 08:57 PM
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NOT sure what all the fuss is about Accu-EQ vs XT32 My TX-NR 818 sounds great, I just purchased a TX-NR 737 with Accu-EQ I set it up and it sound great not sure what your talking about that it doesn't eq the front L R I think it does because when I listen to two channel stereo the eq is off but if I change the listen mode then the front is eq`ed and it sounds different. So my conclusion is that when you listen to two channel stereo no eq but other listening modes Accu-EQ eq' s the front.
In my humble opinion my ears tell me this.

My main setup PN60E8000 / Directv genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray Onkyo TX-NR 1030 7.2.4 /Onkyo M-5010 Amplifier for top middle Bic Acoustech speakers,MICCA M-8S FH/TM on wall / in ceiling speakers / 2 Bic F12 subs
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post #644 of 1783 Old 08-18-2014, 09:12 PM
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If you remain in Stereo listening mode (a CD for example) and with AccuEQ on, then AccuEQ off; that would be the proper way.
And! Set your two front L & R mains to Full Range for that experiment, no subwoofer.

It is very well written that AccuEQ doesn't EQ the two front main channels. But! Perhaps it is for Surround listening audio modes, I just don't know.

And your manual should say something about that or it is not well explicated.

But if it sounds great then all is good, and it don't matter what others are saying.
Onkyo is not worst than Denon or Pioneer or Yamaha ot Marantz or NAD or Rotel or Arcam or Anthem or Integra or Sherwood or Emotiva or anybody else. It's all in the minds of the beholders.

I got them all I love them all. ...And the more balanced the bass is in our room the merrier and happier we are. ...And that we can hear the dialog clearly from the well mixed soundtracks (some are just a mess).

Last edited by NorthSky; 08-18-2014 at 09:21 PM.
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post #645 of 1783 Old 08-18-2014, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMFDMvsEnya View Post
I do not need to drive a Pinto to know that it will not perform as well as a Porsche. Mmm, wonder why I can make that safe assumption, perhaps due to objective verifiable data.
It depends...if your goal is to cause a huge explosion when tapped lightly from behind...the Pinto performs far better than the Porsche!

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post #646 of 1783 Old 08-18-2014, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by htpcforever View Post
It depends...if your goal is to cause a huge explosion when tapped lightly from behind...the Pinto performs far better than the Porsche!

http://youtu.be/dT0J0rcJTLo
I think the Bobcat had the same thing LOL

My main setup PN60E8000 / Directv genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray Onkyo TX-NR 1030 7.2.4 /Onkyo M-5010 Amplifier for top middle Bic Acoustech speakers,MICCA M-8S FH/TM on wall / in ceiling speakers / 2 Bic F12 subs
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Audyssey MultEQ XT32 might be the preferred choice of some surround sound aficionados, but it ain't perfect.
Everybody is different; their speakers, their rooms, their philosophies, their ears, their hearts, their souls, and their spirits.

Happiness is free, nobody can sell it to nobody else.
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post #648 of 1783 Old 08-18-2014, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
If you remain in Stereo listening mode (a CD for example) and with AccuEQ on, then AccuEQ off; that would be the proper way.
And! Set your two front L & R mains to Full Range for that experiment, no subwoofer.

It is very well written that AccuEQ doesn't EQ the two front main channels. But! Perhaps it is for Surround listening audio modes, I just don't know.

And your manual should say something about that or it is not well explicated.

But if it sounds great then all is good, and it don't matter what others are saying.
Onkyo is not worst than Denon or Pioneer or Yamaha ot Marantz or NAD or Rotel or Arcam or Anthem or Integra or Sherwood or Emotiva or anybody else. It's all in the minds of the beholders.

I got them all I love them all. ...And the more balanced the bass is in our room the merrier and happier we are. ...And that we can hear the dialog clearly from the well mixed soundtracks (some are just a mess).
I like it Mikey likes it.
I'm still getting my feet wet and for my little room it actually does sound pretty darn good, now if I had a dedicated HT I would definitely have chosen something different.

My main setup PN60E8000 / Directv genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray Onkyo TX-NR 1030 7.2.4 /Onkyo M-5010 Amplifier for top middle Bic Acoustech speakers,MICCA M-8S FH/TM on wall / in ceiling speakers / 2 Bic F12 subs
MY 10' X 15' DEN PN51F5500 / Directv Genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray / Onkyo TX-NR 737 5.2.2 Atmos / Bose 161 top front on Ceiling Speakers
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post #649 of 1783 Old 08-18-2014, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Audyssey MultEQ XT32 might be the preferred choice of some surround sound aficionados, but it ain't perfect.
Everybody is different; their speakers, their rooms, their philosophies, their ears, their hearts, their souls, and their spirits.

Happiness is free, nobody can sell it to nobody else.
My sentiment exactly well said..

My main setup PN60E8000 / Directv genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray Onkyo TX-NR 1030 7.2.4 /Onkyo M-5010 Amplifier for top middle Bic Acoustech speakers,MICCA M-8S FH/TM on wall / in ceiling speakers / 2 Bic F12 subs
MY 10' X 15' DEN PN51F5500 / Directv Genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray / Onkyo TX-NR 737 5.2.2 Atmos / Bose 161 top front on Ceiling Speakers
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post #650 of 1783 Old 08-18-2014, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by htpcforever View Post
It depends...if your goal is to cause a huge explosion when tapped lightly from behind...the Pinto performs far better than the Porsche!

http://youtu.be/dT0J0rcJTLo
Love that clip.

My main setup PN60E8000 / Directv genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray Onkyo TX-NR 1030 7.2.4 /Onkyo M-5010 Amplifier for top middle Bic Acoustech speakers,MICCA M-8S FH/TM on wall / in ceiling speakers / 2 Bic F12 subs
MY 10' X 15' DEN PN51F5500 / Directv Genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray / Onkyo TX-NR 737 5.2.2 Atmos / Bose 161 top front on Ceiling Speakers
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post #651 of 1783 Old 08-18-2014, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by htpcforever View Post
It depends...if your goal is to cause a huge explosion when tapped lightly from behind...the Pinto performs far better than the Porsche!

http://youtu.be/dT0J0rcJTLo
I stand corrected and tip my hat to you good sir. ;}
Although my intended goal was not to explode some Nazis but if I find myself in that situation I now have a creative alternative.

Best regards,
KvE
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post #652 of 1783 Old 08-21-2014, 05:42 AM
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Not everyone finds Onkyo Accu-EQ bad.
As many commenters have pointed out, some Onkyo models have had a troubled history for HDMI reliability. This is something we considered while writing this guide, but not something we’ve been able to pin down. Since Onkyo has been one of the best-selling AVR brands for many years, usually filling the top Best Seller spots at Amazon, there are a lot of them out there. Trying to determine if HDMI issues are something inherent to Onkyo because of a design flaw, or because they just sell more and have more reports, is something we can’t be certain
Here is the entire article that found for the TX-NR 636 as a good sounding avr
http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/the-best-receiver/

My main setup PN60E8000 / Directv genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray Onkyo TX-NR 1030 7.2.4 /Onkyo M-5010 Amplifier for top middle Bic Acoustech speakers,MICCA M-8S FH/TM on wall / in ceiling speakers / 2 Bic F12 subs
MY 10' X 15' DEN PN51F5500 / Directv Genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray / Onkyo TX-NR 737 5.2.2 Atmos / Bose 161 top front on Ceiling Speakers

Last edited by bargervais; 08-21-2014 at 05:47 AM.
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post #653 of 1783 Old 08-21-2014, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by bargervais View Post
Not everyone finds Onkyo Accu-EQ bad.
As many commenters have pointed out, some Onkyo models have had a troubled history for HDMI reliability. This is something we considered while writing this guide, but not something we’ve been able to pin down. Since Onkyo has been one of the best-selling AVR brands for many years, usually filling the top Best Seller spots at Amazon, there are a lot of them out there. Trying to determine if HDMI issues are something inherent to Onkyo because of a design flaw, or because they just sell more and have more reports, is something we can’t be certain
Here is the entire article that found for the TX-NR 636 as a good sounding avr
http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/the-best-receiver/
Purely anecdotal but I have had 4 Onkyo units, including two flagship models, including the 5509 which I am still using today. None of them has given me any problems at all. I have always taken great care over cooling the units as I believe that overheating is a prime cause of component failure. I use two Noctua 4 inch PC fans on top of the unit and always have done since I bought it. That may explain why I have had no problems or it may be that European units have a sligttly different component spec. The problem has always been in the HDMI board, which does run very hot even in my processor which, of course, has no amps. But I have seen many examples of use where the units have not been ventilated in accordance with the user manual, so this could also partially explain failed units. Also, Onkyo is not the only brand which has had HDMI board problems. And, as you say, it is a leading seller, so this could also have a bearing on it. FWIW, when I switch to Denon this fall, I will transfer my cooling fans to that unit too.

I think everything that can be said about AccuEQ has been said. Many, me included, believe that room EQ which fails to EQ the R&L speakers is "useless". Others say that AccuEQ works well for them, in their rooms, although personally I can't understand how NOT EQing the front soundstage can be seen as a good idea, unless one objects to electronic EQ altogether in some sort of 'purist' (AKA way behind the times) stance.

A lot of hardcore AV enthusiasts, me included, have now rejected Onkyo entirely because we insist on a proven and effective REQ. In the grand scheme of things, this will not harm Onkyo sales of entry level and mid-level units, simply because Joe SixPack neither knows nor cares about REQ. But it could well harm the sales of Onkyo's high-end units, and this is also where most of the profit comes from, so the impact on Onkyo's finances could be greater than a first glance would suggest.
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post #654 of 1783 Old 08-21-2014, 07:08 AM
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personally I can't understand how NOT EQing the front soundstage can be seen as a good idea, unless one objects to electronic EQ altogether in some sort of 'purist' (AKA way behind the times) stance.
Personally I can't understand why you'd want to EQ something that comes with a carefully shaped frequency responce (aka adding certain fluctuations differing in size but down to the range of tenths of a dB) with an automated system that knows nothing about the psychoacoustical target curve for the speakers. If it's just aimed at flat, you could buy 'just anything' and have it EQed flat. I've tried that previously (Canton Digital 1.1) myself.

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post #655 of 1783 Old 08-21-2014, 07:25 AM
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Personally I can't understand why you'd want to EQ something that comes with a carefully shaped frequency responce (aka adding certain fluctuations differing in size but down to the range of tenths of a dB) with an automated system that knows nothing about the psychoacoustical target curve for the speakers. If it's just aimed at flat, you could buy 'just anything' and have it EQed flat. I've tried that previously (Canton Digital 1.1) myself.
I am not talking about EQing speakers. I am talking about EQing the speaker/room combination. It doesn't matter in the least how carefully shaped the frequency response of the speaker in the designer's lab, once it is put in a room it will behave differently.

And yes, if REQ was so good that it would EQ any speaker to 'flat' in the room, then indeed we could just buy anything. But as you know, that isn't the case and we do, of course, want to start with a speaker which has been properly designed in the first place. That, of course, doesn't mean an 'expensive' speaker: the results Toole found where a speaker costing a few hundred dollars hugely outperformed a speaker costing tens of thousands of dollars, both in measurements and in listening tests, demonstrated that clearly enough. I’d cite the latest Andrew Jones Atmos designs as good examples of what I mean.
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post #656 of 1783 Old 08-21-2014, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
I am not talking about EQing speakers. I am talking about EQing the speaker/room combination. It doesn't matter in the least how carefully shaped the frequency response of the speaker in the designer's lab, once it is put in a room it will behave differently.
Yes, but it it boost or cuts at a frequency... it won't know if there is to be a small bump or a small dip - it just doesn't know that. So something intended and probably quite costly engineered could get removed. And we shouldn't be removing all of what the room does either, we need the cues that our brain expects to hear from what you see/know about the room, or it won't sound natural. You want it to be as if your room was cut in two and the part you're sitting in is a theater booth opening up into the room of the recording. That is at least what the front/stereo speakers I buy are intended for.

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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
And yes, if REQ was so good that it would EQ any speaker to 'flat' in the room, then indeed we could just buy anything. But as you know, that isn't the case and we do, of course, want to start with a speaker which has been properly designed in the first place. That, of course, doesn't mean an 'expensive' speaker: the results Toole found where a speaker costing a few hundred dollars hugely outperformed a speaker costing tens of thousands of dollars, both in measurements and in listening tests, demonstrated that clearly enough. I’d cite the latest Andrew Jones Atmos designs as good examples of what I mean.
This is how flat my Digitals were in room:


But if you bought something with an intentional BBC-dip, receiving the result above after EQ would be a huge disappointment... the BBC-dip should still be there.

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post #657 of 1783 Old 08-21-2014, 08:17 AM
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^
That probably didn't sound very good. Flat in-room is wrong. Living in an anechoic chamber would be an exception

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"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
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post #658 of 1783 Old 08-21-2014, 08:25 AM
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^
That probably didn't sound very good. Flat in-room is wrong. Living in an anechoic chamber would be an exception
It didn't take more than a week before I gave the bass some boost, quite right. I haven't been using those speakers the last 10 years either. What I have today have a natural 'housecurve'.

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post #659 of 1783 Old 08-21-2014, 12:17 PM
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The only review of the Onkyo TX-NR636 so far is from Daniel Kumin of Sound & Vision magazine. He is a fan, awarding is four out of five stars for audio quality and four out of five for value. With audio, Kumin says, “The Onkyo had no difficulty achieving realistic listening levels on natural acoustic music, even superbly recorded multichannel music like Elgar’s Symphony No. 3.“ Just like I did, he found, “AccuEQ’s distances were very accurate, but levels were off by several decibels amongst the front trio.”

Overall, he concludes that the Onkyo TX-NR636 offers, “fine amplification, effective video processing, fresh-baked HDMI 2.0, and very decent usability, all at a more-than-fair price.

My main setup PN60E8000 / Directv genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray Onkyo TX-NR 1030 7.2.4 /Onkyo M-5010 Amplifier for top middle Bic Acoustech speakers,MICCA M-8S FH/TM on wall / in ceiling speakers / 2 Bic F12 subs
MY 10' X 15' DEN PN51F5500 / Directv Genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray / Onkyo TX-NR 737 5.2.2 Atmos / Bose 161 top front on Ceiling Speakers
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post #660 of 1783 Old 08-21-2014, 12:26 PM
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“AccuEQ’s distances were very accurate, but levels were off by several decibels amongst the front trio.”
Several dB? Wow. This is such a basic measurement and very easy to get right. 1:0 for Audyssey.

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