AccuEQ Vs Audyssey - Page 24 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 363Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #691 of 1763 Old 08-22-2014, 12:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
caloyzki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 2,162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 164 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post
i am still go with Audyssey! and its already proven and tested!
kbarnes701 likes this.

Panasonic 60VT60
Energy RC 70 fronts
Energy RC LCR center
Energy RC LCR surrounds
Rythmik LV12R and Mirage Omni 12 subwoofers
Denon 2112CI
caloyzki is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #692 of 1763 Old 08-22-2014, 12:32 PM
Member
 
ajl7519's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 11
One thing I remember is when I used the AccuEq it didn't really change the default crossover settings very much. I have the Aperion Verus Grand Tower and Center with the SVS PB13-Ultra. Audyssey set both the fronts and centers to 40hz. I tweaked that a little bit (set them to 80hz). Also, after measuring with a SPL all the speakers were pretty much right at 75db from the primary listening position with Audyssey. Only thing I bumped up over 75db was the center. When measuring with AccuEq there was definitely more variance than with Audyssey.

One thing I love with Audyssey is the Dynamic Volume. It really makes a difference when changing sources. I use the Dynamic EQ for everything except music. I don't recall how AccuEq handled that as I didn't have the receiver very long.

Last edited by ajl7519; 08-23-2014 at 03:04 PM.
ajl7519 is offline  
post #693 of 1763 Old 08-22-2014, 12:37 PM
 
ClawAndTalon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 598
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 230 Post(s)
Liked: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post
You lost me, here. How are you defining "proprietary room EQs" and "subwoofer filtering and control"?

As I view these things, Audyssey (esp XT32) performs sub filtering, as do other products not named AccuEQ.

I define proprietary room EQs a basically ones not Audyssey, but more precisely YAPO, MCAAC, and now AccuEQ.


To my knowledge none of these have even close to the sub EQing and filtering as XT32. Please show me if I'm wrong.
ClawAndTalon is offline  
post #694 of 1763 Old 08-22-2014, 12:41 PM
RUR
Innocent Bystander
 
RUR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: California Republic
Posts: 2,387
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
I define proprietary room EQs a basically ones not Audyssey, but more precisely YAPO, MCAAC, and now AccuEQ.


To my knowledge none of these have even close to the sub EQing and filtering as XT32. Please show me if I'm wrong.
Nope, we're essentially in agreement. There are others, even better/more flexible than Audyssey, but they're not in the mainstream consumer space.
RUR is offline  
post #695 of 1763 Old 08-22-2014, 01:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bargervais's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tampa Bay Florida
Posts: 1,579
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 474 Post(s)
Liked: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post
Should I spent my hard earned money on fraudulent product to prove it is fraudulent to religious fanboy? BTW, it is measured and proven already... You can find links in this thread.
Thanks
Please can you send me links of your posted findings. I will read them thanks again in advance.

My main setup PN60E8000 / Directv genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray Onkyo TX-NR 1030 7.2.4 /Onkyo M-5010 Amplifier for top middle Bic Acoustech speakers,MICCA M-8S FH/TM on wall / in ceiling speakers / 2 Bic F12 subs
MY 10' X 15' DEN PN51F5500 / Directv Genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray / Onkyo TX-NR 737 5.2.2 Atmos / Bose 161 top front on Ceiling Speakers
bargervais is online now  
post #696 of 1763 Old 08-22-2014, 02:20 PM
Advanced Member
 
IgorZep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 729
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post
Thanks
Please can you send me links of your posted findings. I will read them thanks again in advance.
Are you crazy? Read letter by letter again my question: "Should I spent my hard earned money on fraudulent product to prove it is fraudulent to religious fanboy?" and stop provocating and 'obligingly' trolling!
You know very well that I posted no findings because they have been posted already by others. Those are Onkyo's own claims and independent measurements (by owners) that confirm that AccuEQ does not EQ front L/R and subwoofer channels. You have seen them posted in this thread several times already, don't you? I have no reason not to trust Onkyo and those measurements. I have no intent to buy this product because it is useless according to the above. You are acting annoyingly! Do you seriously believe the (room) EQ is something that can work without being (easily!) measurable? Or do you seriously believe you can convince me or any knowledgeable person it is possible?

If you have any contradictory proofs and measurements, that show AccuEQ does room EQ on those channels, please sent them. Please don't ask me to spend idiotic money in attempting to do it. And please don't even ask me to 'listen' for nonexistent things... Attempting to do it is fraudulent salesman work!
IgorZep is online now  
post #697 of 1763 Old 08-22-2014, 02:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Selden Ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: upstate NY
Posts: 7,731
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 788 Post(s)
Liked: 521
Some room EQ comparisons are available in the thread

REW Measurements for Room Correction Systems (YPAO, ARC, Audyssey etc)

There haven't been any measurements posted for more than a year, though, so none of current models. Doing the measurements correctly can be difficult.

Selden

Marantz SR7009/7.1.4/FH+TM/DefTech PM1000/LCR+TM amped
Selden Ball is offline  
post #698 of 1763 Old 08-22-2014, 02:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
audioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Not far from Atlanta - but far enough!
Posts: 3,555
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 436 Post(s)
Liked: 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post
Thanks
Please can you send me links of your posted findings. I will read them thanks again in advance.
I'm confused. What part of the word 'no" do you not understand. There is NO EQ of the front channels with this kludge of a product. And in virtually every room I have ever been in (many hundreds of them -- dedicated, custom built, multi-use living space, etc), time based room correction (e.g. Audyssey, TacT, Dirac, et al) provides a very audible improvement. That you don't like that improvement is OK but few who care about accurate audio (and who know how to ask the right questions) is going to invest in a product that does not provide improved accuracy to the most important channels in the room. There is no speculation involved.

I do not have to hear it to know that as a fact. Onkyo clearly states they do no correction. As in NONE to the front channels. There are few rooms any more treated than mine and the difference between correction and no correction is night an day on the front channels. While passive treatment is critical to get the most out of your system, it is rare that it can not be improved upon by time-based room correction products.

I have no clue why Onkyo has chosen this path and it really makes no difference. They have and as a result will lose potential sales from informed audiophiles (and maybe they don't give a rip about "informed audiophiles"). There are a lot more uninformed than informed and they may do just fine!!!

If you want proof that I have a treated room, check out my link below:
kbarnes701 and IgorZep like this.

New Theater

Don't count the years. Make the years count. Lou Holtz
audioguy is online now  
post #699 of 1763 Old 08-22-2014, 03:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bargervais's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tampa Bay Florida
Posts: 1,579
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 474 Post(s)
Liked: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post
Are you crazy? Read letter by letter again my question: "Should I spent my hard earned money on fraudulent product to prove it is fraudulent to religious fanboy?" and stop provocating and 'obligingly' trolling!
You know very well that I posted no findings because they have been posted already by others. Those are Onkyo's own claims and independent measurements (by owners) that confirm that AccuEQ does not EQ front L/R and subwoofer channels. You have seen them posted in this thread several times already, don't you? I have no reason not to trust Onkyo and those measurements. I have no intent to buy this product because it is useless according to the above. You are acting annoyingly! Do you seriously believe the (room) EQ is something that can work without being (easily!) measurable? Or do you seriously believe you can convince me or any knowledgeable person it is possible?

If you have any contradictory proofs and measurements, that show AccuEQ does room EQ on those channels, please sent them. Please don't ask me to spend idiotic money in attempting to do it. And please don't even ask me to 'listen' for nonexistent things... Attempting to do it is fraudulent salesman work!
wow fraudulent

sorry man i though you had the goods, have a nice weekend.
I was just saying my TX-NR737 sounds just Fine compared to my 818 that's all I'm saying.
i thought the thread was asking what we thought and how AccuEQ compares to Audyssey and i gave my impression as to what i hear and ease of use.
now it's only D/M that have Audyssey, lets hope they don't drop it as well for something they cook up.

My main setup PN60E8000 / Directv genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray Onkyo TX-NR 1030 7.2.4 /Onkyo M-5010 Amplifier for top middle Bic Acoustech speakers,MICCA M-8S FH/TM on wall / in ceiling speakers / 2 Bic F12 subs
MY 10' X 15' DEN PN51F5500 / Directv Genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray / Onkyo TX-NR 737 5.2.2 Atmos / Bose 161 top front on Ceiling Speakers
bargervais is online now  
post #700 of 1763 Old 08-22-2014, 03:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
zeus33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,629
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 331 Post(s)
Liked: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Some room EQ comparisons are available in the thread

REW Measurements for Room Correction Systems (YPAO, ARC, Audyssey etc)

There haven't been any measurements posted for more than a year, though, so none of current models. Doing the measurements correctly can be difficult.

You may have missed it. kbarnes posted a link in post number 8 of this thread here that compares AccuEQ to XT32. As we have discussed ad nauseam, the proof is right in the graphs. You have to scroll down to the comments section to see the update in the article for when he added the XT32 graphs.
zeus33 is online now  
post #701 of 1763 Old 08-22-2014, 03:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
M Code's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Joshua Tree, CA
Posts: 9,980
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 162 Post(s)
Liked: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
Pet Peeve... Audyssey requires the purchasing of a license, not a 'royalty.' Those are different things, but I guess I can see the confusion.


Is the license for Audyssey expensive? That's relative to what kind of return you expect from sales. Denon/Marantz seems ok with it. So, what's Onkyo's problem? The issue is CPU power, which we can factually evaluate. Long story short, Onkyo comes up short here, and had to make a decision with Atmos being installed. Pioneer did this to a lesser extent with removing THX DSP.
Incorrect...
The Audyssey license is zip..
Yes the brand must be licensed but the income stream paid to Audyssey is a per unit royalty just like Dolby, DTS, MP3, Apple, HDMI.. I have the actual Audyssey royalty schedule and even @ unit quantities of >50K, it exceeds the cost of only the Dolby HD royalties..
I wish I could post it, it would surprise many users as they are naive to the actual royalty costs within an AVR.

The AccuEQ is royalty free as it is from the TI library..

Very simple calculation...
Component & labor costs are increasing and Onkyo decided they could no longer pay the higher royalties to Audyssey especially inlight of increased royalties to Dolby for Atmos. Onkyo held multiple discussions with Audyssey about reducing the royalty costs but if Audyssey reduced this for Onkyo then this needs to be passed on to the other Audyssey licensees as well..

Just my $0.03..
M Code is online now  
post #702 of 1763 Old 08-22-2014, 03:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bargervais's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tampa Bay Florida
Posts: 1,579
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 474 Post(s)
Liked: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
I'm confused. What part of the word 'no" do you not understand. There is NO EQ of the front channels with this kludge of a product. And in virtually every room I have ever been in (many hundreds of them -- dedicated, custom built, multi-use living space, etc), time based room correction (e.g. Audyssey, TacT, Dirac, et al) provides a very audible improvement. That you don't like that improvement is OK but few who care about accurate audio (and who know how to ask the right questions) is going to invest in a product that does not provide improved accuracy to the most important channels in the room. There is no speculation involved.

I do not have to hear it to know that as a fact. Onkyo clearly states they do no correction. As in NONE to the front channels. There are few rooms any more treated than mine and the difference between correction and no correction is night an day on the front channels. While passive treatment is critical to get the most out of your system, it is rare that it can not be improved upon by time-based room correction products.

I have no clue why Onkyo has chosen this path and it really makes no difference. They have and as a result will lose potential sales from informed audiophiles (and maybe they don't give a rip about "informed audiophiles"). There are a lot more uninformed than informed and they may do just fine!!!

If you want proof that I have a treated room, check out my link below:
i was under the impression and i'm Confused here when I'm in two Channel stereo i see that it does not EQ front left and right.
When I'm in a different listening mode i see that the EQ is on and it does EQ the front because when i turn it off the sound from the front changes and is different.
so my understanding is that it doesn't EQ the Front when Listening to Stereo because it doesn't EQ for listening to music.
but it does when yor listening in 5.1 or 7.1 because i can hear the difference when i turn it off.

My main setup PN60E8000 / Directv genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray Onkyo TX-NR 1030 7.2.4 /Onkyo M-5010 Amplifier for top middle Bic Acoustech speakers,MICCA M-8S FH/TM on wall / in ceiling speakers / 2 Bic F12 subs
MY 10' X 15' DEN PN51F5500 / Directv Genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray / Onkyo TX-NR 737 5.2.2 Atmos / Bose 161 top front on Ceiling Speakers
bargervais is online now  
post #703 of 1763 Old 08-22-2014, 04:04 PM
Advanced Member
 
Tnedator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 705
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post
Incorrect...
Audyssey was dropped due to high royalty costs..

...

Just my $0.03...
Is this a confirmed fact, or speculation?
Tnedator is offline  
post #704 of 1763 Old 08-22-2014, 05:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
zeus33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,629
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 331 Post(s)
Liked: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post
i was under the impression and i'm Confused here when I'm in two Channel stereo i see that it does not EQ front left and right.
When I'm in a different listening mode i see that the EQ is on and it does EQ the front because when i turn it off the sound from the front changes and is different.
so my understanding is that it doesn't EQ the Front when Listening to Stereo because it doesn't EQ for listening to music.
but it does when yor listening in 5.1 or 7.1 because i can hear the difference when i turn it off.

I don't know what you are hearing, but in the link that kbarnes posted in post number 8 of this thread, you can see the measurement graphs in multi-channel listening mode that shows ZERO change in the curve of the front speakers using AccuEQ. It doesn't get any more cut and dry than that.


Also, from another thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnedator View Post
Ok, I'm going to post this in the two places where I posted that maybe it was their marketing department misstating things. I just receieved confirmation from Integra that the front LR are bypassed.

In essence:

-It works like Audyssey and others, except that it bypasses the front left and right speakers.

-They consider this a feature, since many people choose those speakers for how they sound.

-Other room adjustment systems equalize all speakers to the same curve, which changes the sound of the main LR speakers and they think people prefer to have their LR's tone non adjusted.

-The left and right speaker will be time aligned, but not otherwise adjusted.
kbarnes701 likes this.
zeus33 is online now  
post #705 of 1763 Old 08-22-2014, 07:07 PM
Senior Member
 
htpcforever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 454
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 268 Post(s)
Liked: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post
Incorrect...
The Audyssey license is zip..
Yes the brand must be licensed but the income stream paid to Audyssey is a per unit royalty just like Dolby, DTS, MP3, Apple, HDMI.. I have the actual Audyssey royalty schedule and even @ unit quantities of >50K, it exceeds the cost of only the Dolby HD royalties..
I wish I could post it, it would surprise many users as they are naive to the actual royalty costs within an AVR.

The AccuEQ is royalty free as it is from the TI library..

Very simple calculation...
Component & labor costs are increasing and Onkyo decided they could no longer pay the higher royalties to Audyssey especially inlight of increased royalties to Dolby for Atmos. Onkyo held multiple discussions with Audyssey about reducing the royalty costs but if Audyssey reduced this for Onkyo then this needs to be passed on to the other Audyssey licensees as well..

Just my $0.03..

Royalty costs are why Microsoft turned WMC into a paid add-on option and dropped native support for DVDs.
htpcforever is offline  
post #706 of 1763 Old 08-22-2014, 07:09 PM
Senior Member
 
htpcforever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 454
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 268 Post(s)
Liked: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnedator View Post
Is this a confirmed fact, or speculation?
It is speculation - but very logical speculation. The only ones who know for sure are the upper decision makers in Onkyo and they are not talking. However, replacing an expensive room correction system with an inferior but free room correction system can only be due to the cost savings.


In most of their lineup (the lower levels that Joe Six Pack buys), no one will notice or care. It is only the high margin, upper levels that will take a beating from this.
htpcforever is offline  
post #707 of 1763 Old 08-22-2014, 09:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
M Code's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Joshua Tree, CA
Posts: 9,980
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 162 Post(s)
Liked: 133
Onkyo has been losing $ for the last several years, with the biggest loss in 2012. Thats why they sold 51% to Gibson Corp...

Here is a link to their income statement..

http://markets.ft.com/research//Mark...ement&period=a

Just my $0.03...
M Code is online now  
post #708 of 1763 Old 08-22-2014, 10:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
NorthSky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Canada - West Island: Vancouver, South Direction: Go East
Posts: 5,307
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2253 Post(s)
Liked: 668
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post
Onkyo has been losing $ for the last several years, with the biggest loss in 2012. Thats why they sold 51% to Gibson Corp...

Here is a link to their income statement..

http://markets.ft.com/research//Mark...ement&period=a

Just my $0.03...
Do you know the reason(s) why Onkyo lost big in 2012?
Does it have some' to do with quality control issues, or to many faulty units, or too many returns, or warranty issues ..?

It is quite something when back in 2007 (TX-SR*05 Series) they were quite distinguished from the rest with Audyssey, THX, heavy receivers with big transformers, very nice looking inside, great power results in the test bench, several great pro reviews, and all.
And every year they added up; with better video processors, ISF certification, and keeping on the edge of the receiver's market. ...We all know about the TX-SR805 (THX Ultra), S705 (MultEQ XT), 875 (Reon), 905, 876, 906, NR3007, NR5007, 3008, 5008, 3009, 5009, 3010, 5010, all heavy weight with all THX certification, great video processing with ISF, and all that good jazz, including Audyssey MultEQ XT32...

So they were extremely competitive with the rest; Denon, Pioneer Elite, Yamaha ..

What happened to Onkyo in the last few years that they were losing money?

And in 2014 AccuEQ is definitely a step down; you don't have to be blind to not see that.
Yes of course they can still sound great with it, and even better when Dolby Atmos is implemented next month, but if they were to retain Audyssey we would have been all excited.
But it is Denon and Marantz now who are taking the lead in that department with four DSP chips inside those units with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 (Pro Ready) and Dolby Atmos.

The weight of receivers (flagship ones) is now roughly between 30 and 40 pounds, and Onkyo/Integra with their big guns were 55 pounds. We were always looking @ the bench tests to make sure of the real performance in the power aspect, with five and seven channels driven all together (bench replication, not @ home).
And then the 9-channel receivers came (Yamaha with 11-channel of amplification), and they were restricting the total power in real life (and on bench tests it was dramatically obvious), because simply too many channels of amplification.

But many people used them and still use them as pre/pros and add more amplification (separate amps) to them. Because they were so loaded with all the features they made more sense to use them as affordable pre/pros.

Onkyo was also goof value, but now the wind seems to have shifted, and Denon and Marantz might be the new leaders. Denon was always more expensive than Onkyo, and the Denon sound was never high-end sound (softer, restricted, ...), and Marantz was just better, and Yamaha too, and Pioneer went Class D, and here we are now with Dolby Atmos just few weeks away, and the new AccuEQ and the old solid Audyssey MultEQ XT32.

This thread is fine; people are free to share their opinion. And there are some facts on both sides of the bridge.

Eventually more and more people will compare (in real life) Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and AccuEQ working in tandem with Dolby Atmos, and we will find more; because Dolby Atmos is a new game in surround sound.
And right now I am from the camp that Dolby Atmos working with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 is the best way to go. ...And tomorrow I'll know even more and my confidence will become stronger and stronger, I truly believe. Because sophisticated good EQuing is important, no matter what; this is the right way, the way ahead, the way of a better future when watching our Blu-ray movies with great surround soundtracks.
...And now add Dolby Atmos and Dolby Surround to that canopy of the latest surround sound technologies; 3D sound immersion, a la vertical elevation. ...Should be real good, and I know that I'll be joining the party, maybe not this year but probably with the 2nd generation. I'm patient, and very excited.

Onkyo is not what it was supposed to be; they lost money because they never admitted their fault in trying too much and doing nothing. ...The ship has sunken.

* EDIT: I found a thread where Onkyo just admitted a Network chip failure in many of their receivers (SSPs) from 2009 to 2012. ...They have now issued an extended warranty till year 2018 for all those affected (that's many!). That failure is causing the audio to drop. ...On the HDMI board, where that Network chip resides.
Next time I buy an Onkyo product, that'll be the day! And AccuEQ has nothing to do with it, it's all Onkyo's own fault; they are the one responsible for all their non-actions, bad decisions, not admitting fast enough of all their failures (like the car industry), and they are the ones who picked AccuEQ and abandoned Audyssey.

People are free to buy anything they want, and people are also free to share their experience, and their knowledge too. At the end we are the ones making the final choice, when we vote with our wallets.
And Onkyo has just made that choice much more easier now for us, in our lives. Bye Bye Onkyo....
...Perhaps in five years or so if you have the guts to make reliable products. ...For that you need a real strong team of people who are dedicated to your customers, and not just money for your investors.
The best investment is in people first.

Last edited by NorthSky; 08-23-2014 at 06:28 AM. Reason: Couple typos + edit
NorthSky is online now  
post #709 of 1763 Old 08-23-2014, 01:02 AM
Advanced Member
 
IgorZep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 729
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post
sorry man i though you had the goods, have a nice weekend...
Sorry me too if I was overly aggressive. I've just tired of people here who think I am a good candidate to the Naked King role...
IgorZep is online now  
post #710 of 1763 Old 08-23-2014, 01:34 AM
Advanced Member
 
IgorZep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 729
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post
When I'm in a different listening mode
When you are in different (non-native to the source - matrixing/artifical reverb/etc) listening mode - they are affecting frequency response by themselves. It is not Room EQ and should not be associated with it. If you listen two-channel stereo through all available channels (dematrixing to 5.1/7.1) then those channels over the main 2.1 are EQualized by AccuEQ, so, if you turn it on/off - you will hear change in sound. This still doesn't mean the room EQ is applied to the main 2.1 channels.
IgorZep is online now  
post #711 of 1763 Old 08-23-2014, 05:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bargervais's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tampa Bay Florida
Posts: 1,579
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 474 Post(s)
Liked: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post
Sorry me too if I was overly aggressive. I've just tired of people here who think I am a good candidate to the Naked King role...
No worries

My main setup PN60E8000 / Directv genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray Onkyo TX-NR 1030 7.2.4 /Onkyo M-5010 Amplifier for top middle Bic Acoustech speakers,MICCA M-8S FH/TM on wall / in ceiling speakers / 2 Bic F12 subs
MY 10' X 15' DEN PN51F5500 / Directv Genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray / Onkyo TX-NR 737 5.2.2 Atmos / Bose 161 top front on Ceiling Speakers
bargervais is online now  
post #712 of 1763 Old 08-23-2014, 05:53 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 19,672
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2521 Post(s)
Liked: 2241
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
I'm confused. What part of the word 'no" do you not understand. There is NO EQ of the front channels with this kludge of a product. And in virtually every room I have ever been in (many hundreds of them -- dedicated, custom built, multi-use living space, etc), time based room correction (e.g. Audyssey, TacT, Dirac, et al) provides a very audible improvement. That you don't like that improvement is OK but few who care about accurate audio (and who know how to ask the right questions) is going to invest in a product that does not provide improved accuracy to the most important channels in the room. There is no speculation involved.

I do not have to hear it to know that as a fact. Onkyo clearly states they do no correction. As in NONE to the front channels. There are few rooms any more treated than mine and the difference between correction and no correction is night an day on the front channels. While passive treatment is critical to get the most out of your system, it is rare that it can not be improved upon by time-based room correction products.

I have no clue why Onkyo has chosen this path and it really makes no difference. They have and as a result will lose potential sales from informed audiophiles (and maybe they don't give a rip about "informed audiophiles"). There are a lot more uninformed than informed and they may do just fine!!!

If you want proof that I have a treated room, check out my link below:
Totally on the money post. My room is heavily treated too but I still need EQ, and as you say, nowhere is it more important than across the front.

I can't understand the endless discussion about this: Onkyo themselves are telling us all we need to know, which is that no EQ on the front soundstage is no EQ at all, in any meaningful sense. This isn’t speculation, or opinion or uncertainty - it is coming direct from Onkyo.
kbarnes701 is offline  
post #713 of 1763 Old 08-23-2014, 05:56 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 19,672
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2521 Post(s)
Liked: 2241
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

The AccuEQ is royalty free as it is from the TI library..
My old granddaddy used to say that if you got something for free, it was usually worth what you paid for it.
kbarnes701 is offline  
post #714 of 1763 Old 08-23-2014, 05:57 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 19,672
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2521 Post(s)
Liked: 2241
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post
i was under the impression and i'm Confused here when I'm in two Channel stereo i see that it does not EQ front left and right.
When I'm in a different listening mode i see that the EQ is on and it does EQ the front because when i turn it off the sound from the front changes and is different.
so my understanding is that it doesn't EQ the Front when Listening to Stereo because it doesn't EQ for listening to music.
but it does when yor listening in 5.1 or 7.1 because i can hear the difference when i turn it off.
Now that is interesting, and makes some sort of sense (from Onkyo's POV). But it isn’t what Onkyo say and it isn't borne out by the measurements we have seen.

EDIT: I see Igor has a good explanation for it.
bargervais likes this.

Last edited by kbarnes701; 08-23-2014 at 06:00 AM.
kbarnes701 is offline  
post #715 of 1763 Old 08-23-2014, 06:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 1,954
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 395 Post(s)
Liked: 159
And it has been suggested before to be the case but got batted over the head at that point.
bargervais likes this.

Under construction: the Larch theater
Nightlord is offline  
post #716 of 1763 Old 08-23-2014, 07:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bargervais's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tampa Bay Florida
Posts: 1,579
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 474 Post(s)
Liked: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Now that is interesting, and makes some sort of sense (from Onkyo's POV). But it isn’t what Onkyo say and it isn't borne out by the measurements we have seen.

EDIT: I see Igor has a good explanation for it.
Yes I thought it was interesting as well. When I put my ears next to the front stage when I turn Accu-EQ off I can hear the difference that all I was trying to say this TX-NR 737 is only an entry level AVR maybe when their 1030 and 3030 I wonder if the Accu-EQ is different they have two sub outs. Not sure if those have a more sophisticated Accu-EQ. Time will tell

My main setup PN60E8000 / Directv genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray Onkyo TX-NR 1030 7.2.4 /Onkyo M-5010 Amplifier for top middle Bic Acoustech speakers,MICCA M-8S FH/TM on wall / in ceiling speakers / 2 Bic F12 subs
MY 10' X 15' DEN PN51F5500 / Directv Genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray / Onkyo TX-NR 737 5.2.2 Atmos / Bose 161 top front on Ceiling Speakers
bargervais is online now  
post #717 of 1763 Old 08-23-2014, 07:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,592
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1007 Post(s)
Liked: 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post
When I put my ears next to the front stage when I turn Accu-EQ off I can hear the difference
What listening mode? What type of input signal?

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is online now  
post #718 of 1763 Old 08-23-2014, 07:46 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
joerod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: MIDWEST (just outside Chicago)
Posts: 22,132
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Liked: 117
I am doing a comparison between the Marantz 7009 and the Onkyo 3030. Results coming soon...

And yes this will be a 100% unbiased observation. I have both company
Plaques.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	143.7 KB
ID:	225386  
grtuck likes this.

For my latest Reviews and Stuff google -> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com
Check out my Dolby Atmos/Surround first take:
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...=1409517748063
joerod is offline  
post #719 of 1763 Old 08-23-2014, 07:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bargervais's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tampa Bay Florida
Posts: 1,579
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 474 Post(s)
Liked: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
What listening mode? What type of input signal?
Let me see if I can explain. I'm watching two channel source I choose Dolby PLIIz Height THX Cinema it shows me that I'm listening 5.2.2.
Ok so I get close to the front speaker and turn off EQ and there is a distinct difference in sound when it's off then when it's on.
Sorry that's all I have to test it is what I hear.

My main setup PN60E8000 / Directv genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray Onkyo TX-NR 1030 7.2.4 /Onkyo M-5010 Amplifier for top middle Bic Acoustech speakers,MICCA M-8S FH/TM on wall / in ceiling speakers / 2 Bic F12 subs
MY 10' X 15' DEN PN51F5500 / Directv Genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray / Onkyo TX-NR 737 5.2.2 Atmos / Bose 161 top front on Ceiling Speakers
bargervais is online now  
post #720 of 1763 Old 08-23-2014, 07:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bargervais's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tampa Bay Florida
Posts: 1,579
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 474 Post(s)
Liked: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post
I am doing a comparison between the Marantz 7009 and the Onkyo 3030. Results coming soon...

And yes this will be a 100% unbiased observation. I have both company
Plaques.
Cool can't wait. All I have for testing is what I can hear. Hope that hasn't ruffled too many feathers because this TX-NR 737 to my surprise it does actually sounds great in spite of not having audyssey.
joerod likes this.

My main setup PN60E8000 / Directv genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray Onkyo TX-NR 1030 7.2.4 /Onkyo M-5010 Amplifier for top middle Bic Acoustech speakers,MICCA M-8S FH/TM on wall / in ceiling speakers / 2 Bic F12 subs
MY 10' X 15' DEN PN51F5500 / Directv Genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray / Onkyo TX-NR 737 5.2.2 Atmos / Bose 161 top front on Ceiling Speakers
bargervais is online now  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off