"best" power for 4 ohm Triad in walls... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 06-26-2014, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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"best" power for 4 ohm Triad in walls...

Looking for power to replace my old Marantz SR-8001 receiver. It's done great, but I long for more power to make the 4 ohm Triad's really sing.

Speakers: Seven in wall Triads. Three front are Silver 6's, four rears are bronze in wall dipoles and in ceiling rears.

Sub: JL Audio Fathom F-113

I use the system 100% for blu-rays and TV. I don't really care about music performance or internet bells and whistles. Just good power.

Do I just pony up for separates?

Do I add an amp to my Marantz? (I think it has pre-outs?)

Is there a high end receiver out there that will handle the 4 ohm well?

Budget: $1500-$2500

thanks!
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post #2 of 12 Old 06-26-2014, 03:02 PM
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You have option to add a power amp

http://www.classicaudioparts.com/ind...tock-120v.html

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

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post #3 of 12 Old 06-26-2014, 03:31 PM
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190 watts into 4 ohms, 20hz-20khz at very low THD

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7125.html

Seems a winner to me

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #4 of 12 Old 06-26-2014, 03:35 PM
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afaik the outlaw <200W amps are made in China, the 200W models are made by ATI

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

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post #5 of 12 Old 06-26-2014, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhitmore View Post
Looking for power to replace my old Marantz SR-8001 receiver. It's done great, but I long for more power to make the 4 ohm Triad's really sing.

Speakers: Seven in wall Triads. Three front are Silver 6's, four rears are bronze in wall dipoles and in ceiling rears.

Sub: JL Audio Fathom F-113

I use the system 100% for blu-rays and TV. I don't really care about music performance or internet bells and whistles. Just good power.

Do I just pony up for separates?

Do I add an amp to my Marantz? (I think it has pre-outs?)

Is there a high end receiver out there that will handle the 4 ohm well?

Budget: $1500-$2500

thanks!
Thecway the physics in our four dimensions of the universe work, power that you don't need remains unused. A thousand watt amp will deliver exactly the same signal to your speakers as a 20 watt amp if you only need 20 watts max. . If your amp isn't distorting audibly added power cannot, consistent with the physical laws of your universe, make a difference just because of power. The problem for most folks is you don't know you have audible distortion until you hear the same thing undistorted in your room. Be aware that at average levels in homes you are not looking at even ten watts. But peaks can require twenty times the power easily so for most of us distortion is only on the really loud bits.
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post #6 of 12 Old 06-26-2014, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhitmore View Post
Looking for power to replace my old Marantz SR-8001 receiver. It's done great, but I long for more power to make the 4 ohm Triad's really sing.

Speakers: Seven in wall Triads. Three front are Silver 6's, four rears are bronze in wall dipoles and in ceiling rears.

Sub: JL Audio Fathom F-113

I use the system 100% for blu-rays and TV. I don't really care about music performance or internet bells and whistles. Just good power.

Do I just pony up for separates?

Do I add an amp to my Marantz? (I think it has pre-outs?)

Is there a high end receiver out there that will handle the 4 ohm well?

Budget: $1500-$2500

thanks!


The Cambridge 651R is $1999, and that would REALLY take your system up a few notches!! It has power you won't believe, and superb sound quality.

Its power supply has about 3 times the total power of your Marantz, and that will make a heck of a difference.

That seems to be in your budget, so go for it!


The NAD T758 is the one I would choose if I was trying to keep the price down.

It will handle them very well and give you very nice sound quality.

It also has preouts if you want to add an amp, but I very much doubt you will need one.

On the other hand, you could probably get a Marantz MM7025 amplifier and keep your existing receiver, and that should work OK. It will add a LOT of power to your receiver, and really make those front channels sing. $799.

Last edited by commsysman; 06-26-2014 at 05:00 PM.
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post #7 of 12 Old 06-26-2014, 09:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm a little confused about adding an amp to my 8001. I guess that's just plug-n-play? I've been really happy with how the 8001 has performed and it's integrated well into my setup. If I can simply add power that might be an option.

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7700.html

http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pa...oductId=MM8077

The question is do I spend $2000 on a new amp and use my older receiver OR spend $2000 on a new receiver? It's seems like buying the amp is the way to go? What are the pros/cons of each option?

Thanks!!
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post #8 of 12 Old 06-26-2014, 09:34 PM
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Pros to buying new receiver - Newer features, possibly more power (if you spend enough,) simpler than a receiver/amp combo

Cons to buying a receive - You may have to spend a lot of a significant increase in power, almost guaranteed to come in second to a carefully researched amp purchase

Pros to a separate amp - Can be used with any pre pro or receiver with pre outs, likely to last for a long time, and does not obsolete, more likely to give you a boost in power with their larger power supplies and dedicated purpose

Cons to buying a separate amp - More cables, wires, somewhat expensive, can be heavy

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #9 of 12 Old 06-27-2014, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhitmore View Post
I'm a little confused about adding an amp to my 8001. I guess that's just plug-n-play? I've been really happy with how the 8001 has performed and it's integrated well into my setup. If I can simply add power that might be an option.

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7700.html

http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pa...oductId=MM8077

The question is do I spend $2000 on a new amp and use my older receiver OR spend $2000 on a new receiver? It's seems like buying the amp is the way to go? What are the pros/cons of each option?

Thanks!!
It really depends, it's not about the power, it's about the control of the speakers. I think once you have 4 ohm speakers, you need to look into dedicated power. Both my hifi speakers and the home theatre speakers (front three) are 4ohm, and dip to 2ohm. No way could a AVR handle that. I "only" have 60W but they can drive them much better than a AVR. Now I'm using 60W+100W for the hifi and 200W for the home theatre (those figures into 8ohm) so about 50%-75% higher for 4ohm. The power supply in that 200W for only 3 channels is higher rated than a 11 channel AVR.

Try and find a AVR with 2 x 1600VA and 3 x 30.000uF. ;-)

Of course that means you may no longer want or need a full blown 9 channel AVR. Why pay for power amplifiers in a AVR that you won't use? But then you might buy a 3 dedicated amp then use the AVR for sides and surrounds. You just have more flexibility.

Flagship AVR cost about £2000. I can't see the point of spending that much every few years, only to lose vast sum when you come to sell it when it's out of date- just to get audio over HDMI, more advanced room EQ, etc.

Cons are of course money, but then what is a couple of thousand pounds/dollars for a quality power amplifier you will keep for several generations of pre, and getting full potential and sound quality from your speakers.

Also if you want to get a AV pre-amp they're stupidly expensive, Lexicon etc.. couple of brands that are affordable, Audiolab (quite basic) Emotiva. Things like brand new Lexicon MC-12 HD EQ balanaced are WAY out of my price, unless second hand units go down to £1500 I'd never be able to afford the £15,000 price (nor that I would spend that much anyway) £1500 is my limit for a pre.

To get the ATI 2003 + 2004 amps would cost about £4000, however they don't go out of date, and should last 20 years so not too bad investment.

fyi my pre/power system

ht
Lexicon MC-8
ATI 2003 3 channel
Audiolab 8000PX 100W 2 channel
Audiolab 8000SX 60W 2 channel

hifi
Audiolab 8000SX 60W 2 channel
Audiolab 8000PX 100W 2 channel.

Something like Anthem 710 could cover my needs, but that's £2200 and I've seen how hard it is for people to sell the old Anthem's, and seen many £2000 go for peanuts, especially once HDMI came out- none HDMI units don't sell, even if they have 7.1 RCA input.

Also you may notice same amps, I have moved amps back and forth from system, either as I upgrade, or if amp is repaired, I still have a fully working system. With a AVR it's one unit, so without it, you have no system at all.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?


Last edited by fatbottom; 06-27-2014 at 04:21 AM.
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post #10 of 12 Old 06-27-2014, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Great advice guys!

I think an amp is probably the way to go.

Some have mentioned a good three channel amp, allowing the receiver to drive the surrounds.

Is this a good way to go?

Will the receiver do the job for the surrounds?

Would buying a big 7 channel amp be overkill?

thanks again!
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post #11 of 12 Old 06-27-2014, 06:22 AM
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I wouldn't so, no. If you have 4 ohm speakers all round, then a single amp is a good option. I've had 2 channel, 3, and a 7 channel.

ATI options are 2,3,4,5,6,7 channel. It just depends on what you want, number of channels, combinations of amps, or a single amp. Even monoblocs is an expensive option.

Emotiva and Outlaw are more affordable amps.

A single works out cheapest per channel, but I found my 7 ran quite hot, the 3 runs cool- a lot of space between each module. Also it means when I only listen to 2 channel I don't have all those amps on (still chuck out fair bit of heat)

Currently in the Hifi I have two x two channel. In the HT, a three, and two x two channel.

By moving the three channels from your AVR that frees up power to your AVR. Of course 7 channels are there if you have a av pre, as you need all those channels.

I have the option of getting a matching ATI in four channel to match, or use three keep on using my two x two's, or use the three + AVR.

I think Emotiva have a 3 channel, about $800, XPA-3. The 1803 is $1300

Course if you get a 3, you need a 4...Emotiva don't have a 4, only a 5. So you'll have a unused channel. This site has entire ATI line up, useful if you need idea what is available

http://www.lsound.eu/home-theater/power-amplifier.html

btw the 7 channel 1807 weighs about 45kg.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

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post #12 of 12 Old 06-27-2014, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I only watch movies and TV, and don't use the system for music at all.

I also have a fairly decent sized component rack, but a one box solution might be best. I know some of the big 7 channel amps weigh 100 lbs+.

I guess I'd probably just want to go ahead and buy a 7 channel amp now and get it done. Rather than buy a 3 channel only.

How do the offering between Outlaw and ATI compare?
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