Emotiva XMC-1 Chat Thread: technical talk only please - Page 30 - AVS Forum
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post #871 of 1254 Old 08-31-2014, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post

The XMC-2, with Dolby Atmos, and Dirac Live LE version 2 should be the ticket.
At the rate at which Emotiva has been able to get the XMC-1 to market in full form (including a fully functional Dirac), you will probably have a comma in your age by the time the XMC-2 comes out.

On the more serious side, while I have no real interest in keeping the XMC-1 on my equipment rack (not enough channels, no Auro/Atmos capability), I really do hope they meet their most recent delivery guess for Dirac and get the bugs worked out quickly. It is in all of our best interest to have many competitive products driving technological progress.
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post #872 of 1254 Old 08-31-2014, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by cschang View Post
With the 103/105...they are pretty much there.
An Oppo player with 2-4 HDMI inputs and an HDMI audio processor loop after the codec decoding and video processing (for something like a miniDSP nanoAVR) would probably destroy a large part of the pre-pro market. I know I'd buy one.
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post #873 of 1254 Old 08-31-2014, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post
So what is the deal with their cell phones?

Just trying to make a point that not everyone is immune to having a product that doesn't quite meet expectations.

I don't know anything about Oppo's cell phones or their "deal". But I do know Emotiva's "deal" with processors and that is a comedy of errors on a steady basis.


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, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

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post #874 of 1254 Old 08-31-2014, 10:59 PM
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^^DS-21,

Agree with you on this one. All Oppo needs to do is to increase the number of HDMI inputs.

The current BDP-103D with 8 HDMI inputs would suite me quite well. The video processing with Darbee is no slouch for large screens and projectors.

One can set the Oppo to PCM output for audio and connect to the MiniDSP NanoAVR-DL with Dirac in-a-box to handle the room equalization.

Final connection to an existing AVR and your good to go.

No Atmos, but XMC-1 can't do it either so it's a wash.

Alas the Oppo doesn't have what I want, so have to do something else.

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post #875 of 1254 Old 08-31-2014, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post
The two channel audio level "bug" in auto is that people are leaving unused channels active with nothing hooked up to them.
If you set the output to "Auto" the XMC tries to find a setting that uses all available speakers.
That actually makes sense to me but I would not leave unused channels active in any processor or AVR!
I would not call this a bug but really it is a customer education on how the logic of the XMC works that hasn't been clearly explained yet.
So, some folks who only connect, say, L/R speakers are telling the XMC-1 they have actually connected additional speakers? In that case I agree the bug is the person setting up the system.

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post #876 of 1254 Old 08-31-2014, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
An Oppo player with 2-4 HDMI inputs and an HDMI audio processor loop after the codec decoding and video processing (for something like a miniDSP nanoAVR) would probably destroy a large part of the pre-pro market. I know I'd buy one.
They just need to add Atmos decoding and we could have 5.1.2:
Oppo analog out > amp > speakers

If you need room correction:
Oppo analog out > miniDSP 10x10 > amp > speakers

Markus

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post #877 of 1254 Old 08-31-2014, 11:34 PM
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Lol, if Oppo can do that, the Emo XMC-1 should do too.

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post #878 of 1254 Old 09-01-2014, 12:04 AM
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Just wait for the magic to happen in two weeks. I wonder if will be another St. Valentine's Day massacre of another Emo promise?
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post #879 of 1254 Old 09-01-2014, 12:29 AM
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post #880 of 1254 Old 09-01-2014, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
So, some folks who only connect, say, L/R speakers are telling the XMC-1 that have actually connected additional speakers? In that case I agree the bug is the person setting up the system.
I just went back and re-read the posts on this issue, and I think that is indeed what's happening. It would also explain why I haven't noticed the issue since going through the menu and setting everything up properly.
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post #881 of 1254 Old 09-01-2014, 02:37 AM
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Okay, here are the test results. Unless I'm missing something, everything looks to be working exactly as expected.

Set the crossover frequency to 200Hz. Play file A (white noise, LFE only). Watch the subwoofer output with the REW spectrum analyzer:


Same file, adjust the subwoofer EQ -10dB at 40hz:


Set the crossover frequency to 200Hz. Play file B (white noise, L only). Watch the subwoofer output with the REW spectrum analyzer:


Same file, adjust the subwoofer EQ -10dB at 40hz:


Set the crossover frequency to 120Hz. Play file C (correlated white noise, L = 0dB, LFE = -10dB). Watch the subwoofer output with the REW spectrum analyzer:


Same file, adjust the distance for the sub channel 10':


Same file, reset sub distance, adjust the distance for the left channel 10':

Last edited by Bluescale; 09-01-2014 at 03:29 AM. Reason: Clarified images
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post #882 of 1254 Old 09-01-2014, 03:17 AM
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^
Thanks Bluescale. I'm not sure which graph belongs to which test though. Maybe we could go successively through the 3 tests?

Markus

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post #883 of 1254 Old 09-01-2014, 03:30 AM
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I just relabeled the images. Let me know if that makes more sense. I realize that I didn't test the left channel EQ.
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post #884 of 1254 Old 09-01-2014, 03:38 AM
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Yes, now everything makes perfect sense and works as it should. I don't expect test 2 ("2. Test channel EQ") will show any anomalies but could you run it anyway, just to make sure we looked at everything?

Did you get the adapter cable for checking the headphone output?

Markus

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post #885 of 1254 Old 09-01-2014, 03:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
^
Yes, now everything makes perfect sense and works as it should. I don't expect test 2 ("2. Test channel EQ") will show any anomalies but could you run it anyway, just to make sure we looked at everything?
Yeah, I'll test that here in a moment. I'm also going to see if I can reproduce the fluctuating volume issue to see if it's due to user error like I suspect, or if there is a significantly different signal when changing audio modes.

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Did you get the adapter cable for checking the headphone output?
I didn't find one in my unused cable box. Tomorrow I'll head down to Radio Shack (assuming they are open on the holiday), and see what I can find there.
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post #886 of 1254 Old 09-01-2014, 03:55 AM
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Great.

Regarding "fluctuating volume issue", didn't Roger suggest it might be an artefact of how the XMC-1 handles gain internally? So if you change the number of speakers from L/R to more then you should see a drop in signal level.

Markus

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post #887 of 1254 Old 09-01-2014, 04:14 AM
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Testing channel EQ - Set the crossover frequency to 200Hz. Play file B (white noise, L only). Adjust the left front EQ -10dB at 60hz:



Looks good, as expected.
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post #888 of 1254 Old 09-01-2014, 05:37 AM
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Something is definitely going on with the volume in All Stereo mode.

Here's an image of multiple measurements of the white noise file supplied by Markus. I matched the subwoofer measurement color to the left channel measurement color so different sound modes can easily be spotted. You'll see why in the next message. Modes included are Stereo, Direct and PLIIx:



Everything here looks exactly as we'd expect. All the left channel measurements are the same, and all the sub channel measurements are the same.

Now, see what happens when I add the measurement for the All Stereo Mode (pink, if you couldn't tell at a glance):



The left channel is down about 2dB, with a steeper roll off, while the sub is up about 5dB.

The behavior was consistent regardless of whether or not I had my speakers configured for 5.1 with 5.1 actually connected, 5.1. with only 2.0 connected, or 2.0 with 2.0 connected.

I'm going to go through this battery of tests again tomorrow, just to make sure that tiredness hasn't caused any errors on my part. At this moment, however, All Stereo mode looks broken to me.
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post #889 of 1254 Old 09-01-2014, 06:09 AM
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The whole idea of "All Stereo" is broken

Markus

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post #890 of 1254 Old 09-01-2014, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by xcapri79 View Post
Just wait for the magic to happen in two weeks. I wonder if will be another St. Valentine's Day massacre of another Emo promise?
Which one would make you the happiest?
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post #891 of 1254 Old 09-01-2014, 08:40 AM
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Nice work Bluescale!
You should report the all stereo bug over at the lounge with these results.
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post #892 of 1254 Old 09-01-2014, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
So, some folks who only connect, say, L/R speakers are telling the XMC-1 they have actually connected additional speakers? In that case I agree the bug is the person setting up the system.
So far that has been the case with what I have read over at the lounge.
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post #893 of 1254 Old 09-01-2014, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post
I just went back and re-read the posts on this issue, and I think that is indeed what's happening. It would also explain why I haven't noticed the issue since going through the menu and setting everything up properly.
I believe out of the box default is all channels driven, turn off unused speakers and see what occurs
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post #894 of 1254 Old 09-01-2014, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post
Nice work Bluescale!
You should report the all stereo bug over at the lounge with these results.
I did that right after posting here. I'm curious what wizardofoz has to say when he gets back online. I believe this is what he's been complaining about. Now he's got so data to back it up.
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post #895 of 1254 Old 09-01-2014, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
At the rate at which Emotiva has been able to get the XMC-1 to market in full form (including a fully functional Dirac), you will probably have a comma in your age by the time the XMC-2 comes out.
I was simply thinking ahead, towards the future, openly.

Quote:
On the more serious side, while I have no real interest in keeping the XMC-1 on my equipment rack (not enough channels, no Auro/Atmos capability), I really do hope they meet their most recent delivery guess for Dirac and get the bugs worked out quickly. It is in all of our best interest to have many competitive products driving technological progress.
Me too.

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post #896 of 1254 Old 09-01-2014, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post
Nice work Bluescale!
You should report the all stereo bug over at the lounge with these results.
Definitely, Al.

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post #897 of 1254 Old 09-01-2014, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post
I did that right after posting here. I'm curious what wizardofoz has to say when he gets back online. I believe this is what he's been complaining about. Now he's got so data to back it up.
I second those who have complimented you on the good job you have done in providing objective evidence of a flaw in the unit. It surprises me that their team of experienced beta testers didn't discover many of these reported bugs.


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post #898 of 1254 Old 09-01-2014, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post
Something is definitely going on with the volume in All Stereo mode.

Here's an image of multiple measurements of the white noise file supplied by Markus.
Which file did you use? File B, L-channel only? If so, can you confirm that the R and Rs outputs remain silent? Also, for All Stereo tests, if you plan to do more of them, may I suggest using a swept sine wave? It will be much easier to see the results.

Markus, while I'm here second-guessing these tests, if perchance more might be useful in future, may I suggest using pink noise? It plots out nicer with the RTA.

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post #899 of 1254 Old 09-01-2014, 02:24 PM
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^
I did those files years ago and used the spectrum analyzer. That's why it's white noise and not pink.

Markus

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post #900 of 1254 Old 09-01-2014, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Which file did you use? File B, L-channel only? If so, can you confirm that the R and Rs outputs remain silent?
I can try to confirm that this evening. If memory serves, i cabled things incorrectly at first (i.e., grabbed the output from the right), and didn't see anything register in the RTA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Also, for All Stereo tests, if you plan to do more of them, may I suggest using a swept sine wave? It will be much easier to see the results.
Bear with me here, as I'm still learning the lingo. By swept sine, do you mean just the measurement sweep in REW? If so, would 20Hz - 300Hz be fine, our should I run a full sweep to 20kHz?
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