Reason/s to hold-off on AVR purchase? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 9Likes
  • 4 Post By Manni01
  • 4 Post By Manni01
  • 1 Post By zeus33
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 20 Old 07-12-2014, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
TonyB1966's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 363
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Reason/s to hold-off on AVR purchase?

With our Denon AVR 3801 being somewhat challenged connection-wise these days, I was contemplating a replacement, actually with a new Denon, not that this matters...

So, I'm having to update my knowledge on all that is new these days, and it's a lot, and soon-to-be stuff too. Somewhere here, I don't know what thread/s it was, but a couple folks felt it prudent to wait for 2015 models, but I don't recall why or the rationale for such. Maybe for our application, such might not make a difference...

For tech reasons, why might one want to wait out an AVR purchase at this time?

Thanks much.
TonyB1966 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 Old 07-12-2014, 08:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
commsysman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,270
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyB1966 View Post
With our Denon AVR 3801 being somewhat challenged connection-wise these days, I was contemplating a replacement, actually with a new Denon, not that this matters...

So, I'm having to update my knowledge on all that is new these days, and it's a lot, and soon-to-be stuff too. Somewhere here, I don't know what thread/s it was, but a couple folks felt it prudent to wait for 2015 models, but I don't recall why or the rationale for such. Maybe for our application, such might not make a difference...

For tech reasons, why might one want to wait out an AVR purchase at this time?

Thanks much.
If one wanted better sound quality and better connections, a NAD AVR would be a good bet.

Check out the T758.
commsysman is offline  
post #3 of 20 Old 07-12-2014, 08:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
fatbottom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 3,775
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 405 Post(s)
Liked: 185
If you wait for the next big thing you'd never buy a AVR. That's why hifi is good. There's nothing to it lol.

Also what you're going to do, don't have a audio system for a year?

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

fatbottom is online now  
post #4 of 20 Old 07-12-2014, 09:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Tallen234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Now is not a bad time to buy a receiver. I have an Onkyo 876 and am thinking about upgrading this year. This year, the new receivers will have the new HDMI 2.0 standard (allows 4k, etc.). I was waiting for this as I bought my Onkyo right before the switch to HDMI 1.3 (and then I bought a 3D tv and had to get creative on connections). The new receivers also have Atmos. The only reason to wait til 2015 (other than the fact that you will always be waiting for the next thing...), is for the manufacturers to work out their implementation of Atmos.

So, I think now is a good time to buy. I'm a bit bummed that Onkyo dropped Audyssey, so I will probably look at the new Denons......
Tallen234 is offline  
post #5 of 20 Old 07-12-2014, 09:38 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MichaelJHuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 18,838
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 196 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallen234 View Post
Now is not a bad time to buy a receiver. I have an Onkyo 876 and am thinking about upgrading this year. This year, the new receivers will have the new HDMI 2.0 standard (allows 4k, etc.). I was waiting for this as I bought my Onkyo right before the switch to HDMI 1.3 (and then I bought a 3D tv and had to get creative on connections). The new receivers also have Atmos. The only reason to wait til 2015 (other than the fact that you will always be waiting for the next thing...), is for the manufacturers to work out their implementation of Atmos.

So, I think now is a good time to buy. I'm a bit bummed that Onkyo dropped Audyssey, so I will probably look at the new Denons......
To be specific, HDMI 2.0 supports 4k@60hz. I believe most current offerings support 4k, but not 4k@60hz. If you can't find an upcoming need for 4k@60hz, I am not seeing the concern with having HDMI 2.0. I am still on HDMI 1.2 or 1.3 for my living room receiver, and haven't been concerned.

You can't stay up to date at all times, so forward thinking while a good idea, won't always ensure you are future proof.

I am still happily using HDMI 1.2 or 1.3 in the living room system. 1.4 only added 3D which I care nothing about. Even if I get a 4k TV, I have no 4k source as of yet. Even if I did, I would guess it can stream at 30hz if needed even it was at 60hz.

Update, 4k sources:
Supposedly there's a Sony made device that only works with Sony TVs that lets you download UHD videos. It may do 60hz output
There are some other internet delivered sources as well, unsure if they are at 60hz
There will be 4k content, but I am not sure it's critical to have 4k60hz capability

"But this one goes up to 11"

Last edited by MichaelJHuman; 07-12-2014 at 10:34 AM.
MichaelJHuman is offline  
post #6 of 20 Old 07-12-2014, 12:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cfraser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto area, Canada
Posts: 1,275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Trying to "future proof" an AVR is a total losing battle. Take it from anybody who bought one 15 years ago, 10 years ago, 5 years ago, 2 years ago, 1 year ago, yesterday, in the next 6 months. We already know what the next HDMI shenanigans will be, and that won't maybe start to appear until next year's models (i.e. released in 2015).

All it takes is for the manufacturer of one device to have it become popular, and then every new AVR will have an interface for that, and everyone will want it, and probably you too. All it takes is for one manufacturer to talk about being able to handle some format of this or that, even if they don't have any real product (no need to point fingers ), and then every new AVR will have an interface for that.

I was intentionally being pedantic, and I think you get the idea. Nobody can predict the future or the market. So you can't "future proof" an AVR or any gear really, unless you stick to strictly 2ch analog audio, but don't know what (new/current) you'd watch on.
cfraser is offline  
post #7 of 20 Old 07-12-2014, 11:23 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
TonyB1966's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 363
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Thanks everyone for your input and thoughts.

Getting an AVR every 12 or so years, I'm not one who is pedantic or hung-up on constantly future-proofing. I have to many other things keeping me occupied to be so fixated...

The 3801 still works, and while it has no HDMI, I'm able to make do as it has digital audio in (optical and coaxial). It has other shortcomings being so dated, and gets too warm when driving 4 ohm speakers... I've waited this long to replace the unit, just wondering if there is something really cool just around the corner that might appeal to me, that would make sense to wait a few more months...

Bought a new TV a couple months ago, and decided to not reach at this point, and went with an "interim" set, a plasma, 1080, non-smart TV. No 3D or 4K... Just figured that I'd wait to see what the next year or two brings, see how things play-out 4K content-wise, where OLED goes, etc... The only reason I got a new TV is simply because the new house's main living area is larger (further viewing distance). Not exactly an upgrade otherwise as the previous TV is just a few years old and we were quite happy with it...

Having just read-up a bit on ATMOS, I don't think that will be of interest to us, at least anytime soon. More than 9 speakers? Damn. Given that this year's units have HDMI 2.0, I think I will pull the trigger on something, and probably be good for another 10+ years, hopefully...

This was helpful.

Last edited by TonyB1966; 07-12-2014 at 11:28 PM.
TonyB1966 is offline  
post #8 of 20 Old 07-13-2014, 07:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Manni01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,363
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Liked: 127
This years units have HDMI 2.0, but both are limited.


Onkyo new range (1030, 3030 out this summer) has only 2.0b speed (10.2Gb, same as HDMI 1.4) but also supports HDCP 2.2 which is/will be needed to passthrough 4K protected content (ie movies from Bluray 4K or any 4K commercial source like the Sony Puck, Brick, etc). HDMI 2.0 full speed, 2.0a, necessary for UHDTV at 10 bits in 50/60p, is 18gb/s. So these Onkyos will support present and upcoming 4K sources for movies fine, but will slightly downsample UHDTV broadcast (coming up in 2016) to 8bits 420.


All the other manufacturers (Denon/Marantz., Pioneer, Yamaha) have made the incredibly stupid to support HDMI 2.0a speed (full 18Gb) without any support for HDCP 2.2.
This means that theoretically they should be able to support UHDTV broadcast in full 10bits 420 quality, but as they don't support HDCP 2.2 they won't support any commercial 4K source like bluray 4K, etc.


If you don't care about 4K, buy now.


If you care about the best possible quality for movies (24p) in 4K and want to stand a chance to play them, the Onkyo range is the only possible choice if you have to upgrade this year.


If you want to have a modicum amount of future-proofing, wait until the first HDMI 2.0a with HDCP 2.2 are available, hopefully next year. By then the Bluray 4K specs should be finalized, so we should know whether HDCP 2.2 is what's needed or not.


By the way, note that event the Onkyos support HDCP 2.2 only on one input (HDMI 3) and one output (main). So if you plan to use your AVR to switch more than one HDCP 2.2 protected source or feed more than one HDCP 2.2 display, there is NOTHING available.


Personally, I do care about playing 4K movies from more than one source (otherwise if you have only one 4K protected source it has a dual HDMI out to bypass the AVR), so I'm keeping my Denon 3311 until the 4K dust settles.
mR_Mo, kokishin, TonyB1966 and 1 others like this.

Last edited by Manni01; 07-13-2014 at 09:45 AM. Reason: typos
Manni01 is offline  
post #9 of 20 Old 07-13-2014, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
TonyB1966's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 363
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Manni01, thank you.

As with your 3311, maybe I'll just hang with my 3801 too, let things sort themselves out.

From memory, 1080 resolution TV's have been around about 7 years? If we can get the same, or even a 5 years span out of 4K, I'm inclined to wait for an AVR to serve such needs.

Question from the uninformed: When are cable and satellite providers expected to offer 4K, streaming services, and for those of us with an aerial (OTA)?
TonyB1966 is offline  
post #10 of 20 Old 07-13-2014, 10:52 AM
Senior Member
 
kokishin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 406
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
This years units have HDMI 2.0, but both are limited.


Onkyo new range (1030, 3030 out this summer) has only 2.0b speed (10.2Gb, same as HDMI 1.4) but also supports HDCP 2.2 which is/will be needed to passthrough 4K protected content (ie movies from Bluray 4K or any 4K commercial source like the Sony Puck, Brick, etc). HDMI 2.0 full speed, 2.0a, necessary for UHDTV at 10 bits in 50/60p, is 18gb/s. So these Onkyos will support present and upcoming 4K sources for movies fine, but will slightly downsample UHDTV broadcast (coming up in 2016) to 8bits 420.


All the other manufacturers (Denon/Marantz., Pioneer, Yamaha) have made the incredibly stupid to support HDMI 2.0a speed (full 18Gb) without any support for HDCP 2.2.
This means that theoretically they should be able to support UHDTV broadcast in full 10bits 420 quality, but as they don't support HDCP 2.2 they won't support any commercial 4K source like bluray 4K, etc.


If you don't care about 4K, buy now.


If you care about the best possible quality for movies (24p) in 4K and want to stand a chance to play them, the Onkyo range is the only possible choice if you have to upgrade this year.


If you want to have a modicum amount of future-proofing, wait until the first HDMI 2.0a with HDCP 2.2 are available, hopefully next year. By then the Bluray 4K specs should be finalized, so we should know whether HDCP 2.2 is what's needed or not.


By the way, note that event the Onkyos support HDCP 2.2 only on one input (HDMI 3) and one output (main). So if you plan to use your AVR to switch more than one HDCP 2.2 protected source or feed more than one HDCP 2.2 display, there is NOTHING available.


Personally, I do care about playing 4K movies from more than one source (otherwise if you have only one 4K protected source it has a dual HDMI out to bypass the AVR), so I'm keeping my Denon 3311 until the 4K dust settles.
Here is a table to go along with your summary:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	HDMI-2.0.jpg
Views:	61
Size:	68.8 KB
ID:	159121  

I'm just a caveman. Your modern world frightens and confuses me.
kokishin is offline  
post #11 of 20 Old 07-13-2014, 11:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
M Code's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Joshua Tree, CA
Posts: 9,900
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked: 124
Note that AVRs become obsolete about every 2-3 years, obsolete defined as not being capable of playing the latest/greatest formats..
With that said most new formats usually have some type of backward compatibility so it will still play but may not deliver its latest capability.

For better or worse...
Due to the market pushing for the lower and lower prices, while the real costs of hardware and software and royalties are increasing...
They are getting hardware that may be capable to play the later formats but is so underbuilt using cheaper and lower grade materials/components the product life is shortened sigificantly so that the AVR will need to be replaced in 2-3 years as it starts to fail....
So pay now or pay later...

For example...
Amazon just sold off a jumbo quantity of Denon 1513s refurbs @ $99 for a 1 day sale.. A reliable source confirmed they sold 6750 units in 1 day as Denon kleened out the warehouse for new stock.. Though a basic AVR the 1513 has 4 HDMI inputs, HDMI pass-through, 3D capability, 5.1, HD audio decoding..

Buy it today cheap and in 2 years throw it away and buy another..

Just my $0.05...
M Code is offline  
post #12 of 20 Old 07-15-2014, 06:28 PM
Senior Member
 
kokishin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 406
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
This years units have HDMI 2.0, but both are limited.


Onkyo new range (1030, 3030 out this summer) has only 2.0b speed (10.2Gb, same as HDMI 1.4) but also supports HDCP 2.2 which is/will be needed to passthrough 4K protected content (ie movies from Bluray 4K or any 4K commercial source like the Sony Puck, Brick, etc). HDMI 2.0 full speed, 2.0a, necessary for UHDTV at 10 bits in 50/60p, is 18gb/s. So these Onkyos will support present and upcoming 4K sources for movies fine, but will slightly downsample UHDTV broadcast (coming up in 2016) to 8bits 420.


All the other manufacturers (Denon/Marantz., Pioneer, Yamaha) have made the incredibly stupid to support HDMI 2.0a speed (full 18Gb) without any support for HDCP 2.2.
This means that theoretically they should be able to support UHDTV broadcast in full 10bits 420 quality, but as they don't support HDCP 2.2 they won't support any commercial 4K source like bluray 4K, etc.


If you don't care about 4K, buy now.


If you care about the best possible quality for movies (24p) in 4K and want to stand a chance to play them, the Onkyo range is the only possible choice if you have to upgrade this year.


If you want to have a modicum amount of future-proofing, wait until the first HDMI 2.0a with HDCP 2.2 are available, hopefully next year. By then the Bluray 4K specs should be finalized, so we should know whether HDCP 2.2 is what's needed or not.


By the way, note that event the Onkyos support HDCP 2.2 only on one input (HDMI 3) and one output (main). So if you plan to use your AVR to switch more than one HDCP 2.2 protected source or feed more than one HDCP 2.2 display, there is NOTHING available.


Personally, I do care about playing 4K movies from more than one source (otherwise if you have only one 4K protected source it has a dual HDMI out to bypass the AVR), so I'm keeping my Denon 3311 until the 4K dust settles.
I find it interesting that Onkyo made the choice they did versus the choice that D+M, Pioneer, and Yamaha made.

If you had to choose an AVR today, which do you think is preferred - a unit with HDMI 2.0a/no HDCP 2.2 or a unit with HDMI 2.0b/HDCP 2.2?

I'm just a caveman. Your modern world frightens and confuses me.
kokishin is offline  
post #13 of 20 Old 07-15-2014, 11:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Manni01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,363
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Liked: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokishin View Post
I find it interesting that Onkyo made the choice they did versus the choice that D+M, Pioneer, and Yamaha made.

If you had to choose an AVR today, which do you think is preferred - a unit with HDMI 2.0a/no HDCP 2.2 or a unit with HDMI 2.0b/HDCP 2.2?
If I had to choose a new model today (ie my AVR has broken down) I would buy a cheap HDMI 1.4 one, possibly one of those that will soon be f/w upgradable to Atmos.

I did more research on the New Onkyos, only one input (3) has HDCP 2.2 support and one output (main). This means that this range is unable to switch more than one HDCP 2.2 protected source, to more than one 4K display. As all HDCP 2.2 protected sources come with dual HDMI to bypass a non compatible AVR, none of the new models from any manufacturer brings any significant advantage over existing HDMI 1.4a models, beyond Atmos.

The other downside for the Onkyo is that they had to downgrade the THX level one step from Ultra and to discard Audyssey as their new models are not powerful enough to deal with Audissey and Atmos processing simultaneously. This means that audio quality is probably inferior.

I personally didn't like Onkyo sound and prefered Denon (entirely subjective) so it's not going to make me switch.

Honestly this year's range from ALL manufacturer is using Atmos to hide the lack of proper HDMI 2.0a and HDCP 2.2 support on all in/out.

If it's to not be able to use my AVR to switch more than one 4K protected input because it either cannot pass them at all or can only pass one, what's the point of going for any of these new models (and believe me, I am waiting to throw my money at them!).

So the choice is very simple:

If you really want Atmos, buy a f/w upgradable Onkyo from the current range (a few of their models announced an upgrade in September, ideally wait until it's here and it works to buy if you don't already have one).

If you want to play 4K commercial content, wait at least a year until they get their act together and bypass your HDMI 1.4 AVR in the meantime using the dual HDMI out of your 4K protected source. There is no content anyway, and none to expect apart from a few proprietary ones like Sony or Samsung offer. Bluray 4K won't be here until 2015/16 if it ever arrives....

ALL the current AVRs will have to be replaced as soon as you have more than one 4K protected source that you want to switch. That's not acceptable to me for a device which is supposed to switch all my sources.

Also there is no real advantage to get the AVR (or the source) to upscale to 4K. If you have a 4K display, it probably has better upscaling than any AVR can deliver, so sending bluray with HDMI 1.4 to a 4K display gives you just about the same quality or better than if you were to use one of these 4K AVRs to do the upscaling. Either they can switch more than one protected 4K source to more than one 4K display, or they are pointless, at least from a video point of view.
mR_Mo, tampabuc, kokishin and 1 others like this.

Last edited by Manni01; 07-15-2014 at 11:14 PM.
Manni01 is offline  
post #14 of 20 Old 07-15-2014, 11:25 PM
Senior Member
 
kokishin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 406
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
If I had to choose a new model today (ie my AVR has broken down) I would buy a cheap HDMI 1.4 one, possibly one of those that will soon be f/w upgradable to Atmos.

I did more research on the New Onkyos, only one input (3) has HDCP 2.2 support and one output (main). This means that this range is unable to switch more than one HDCP 2.2 protected source, to more than one 4K display. As all HDCP 2.2 protected sources come with dual HDMI to bypass a non compatible AVR, none of the new models from any manufacturer brings any significant advantage over existing HDMI 1.4a models, beyond Atmos.

The other downside for the Onkyo is that they had to downgrade the THX level one step from Ultra and to discard Audyssey as their new models are not powerful enough to deal with Audissey and Atmos processing simultaneously. This means that audio quality is probably inferior.

I personally didn't like Onkyo sound and prefered Denon (entirely subjective) so it's not going to make me switch.

Honestly this year's range from ALL manufacturer is using Atmos to hide the lack of proper HDMI 2.0a and HDCP 2.2 support on all in/out.

If it's to not be able to use my AVR to switch more than one 4K protected input because it either cannot pass them at all or can only pass one, what's the point of going for any of these new models (and believe me, I am waiting to throw my money at them!).

So the choice is very simple:

If you really want Atmos, buy a f/w upgradable Onkyo from the current range (a few of their models announced an upgrade in September, ideally wait until it's here and it works to buy if you don't already have one).

If you want to play 4K commercial content, wait at least a year until they get their act together and bypass your HDMI 1.4 AVR in the meantime using the dual HDMI out of your 4K protected source. There is no content anyway, and none to expect apart from a few proprietary ones like Sony or Samsung offer. Bluray 4K won't be here until 2015/16 if it ever arrives....

ALL the current AVRs will have to be replaced as soon as you have more than one 4K protected source that you want to switch. That's not acceptable to me for a device which is supposed to switch all my sources.

Also there is no real advantage to get the AVR (or the source) to upscale to 4K. If you have a 4K display, it probably has better upscaling than any AVR can deliver, so sending bluray with HDMI 1.4 to a 4K display gives you just about the same quality or better than if you were to use one of these 4K AVRs to do the upscaling. Either they can switch more than one protected 4K source to more than one 4K display, or they are pointless, at least from a video point of view.
Manni,

Thanks for your thoughtful, detailed post. I will keep listening and studying, hoping the avr makers get their act together w.r.t. HDMI 2.0a/HDCP 2.2 and Atmos sooner rather than later.

I'm just a caveman. Your modern world frightens and confuses me.
kokishin is offline  
post #15 of 20 Old 07-16-2014, 11:13 AM
Member
 
mR_Mo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
If I had to choose a new model today (ie my AVR has broken down) I would buy a cheap HDMI 1.4 one, possibly one of those that will soon be f/w upgradable to Atmos.

I did more research on the New Onkyos, only one input (3) has HDCP 2.2 support and one output (main). This means that this range is unable to switch more than one HDCP 2.2 protected source, to more than one 4K display. As all HDCP 2.2 protected sources come with dual HDMI to bypass a non compatible AVR, none of the new models from any manufacturer brings any significant advantage over existing HDMI 1.4a models, beyond Atmos.

The other downside for the Onkyo is that they had to downgrade the THX level one step from Ultra and to discard Audyssey as their new models are not powerful enough to deal with Audissey and Atmos processing simultaneously. This means that audio quality is probably inferior.

I personally didn't like Onkyo sound and prefered Denon (entirely subjective) so it's not going to make me switch.

Honestly this year's range from ALL manufacturer is using Atmos to hide the lack of proper HDMI 2.0a and HDCP 2.2 support on all in/out.

If it's to not be able to use my AVR to switch more than one 4K protected input because it either cannot pass them at all or can only pass one, what's the point of going for any of these new models (and believe me, I am waiting to throw my money at them!).

So the choice is very simple:

If you really want Atmos, buy a f/w upgradable Onkyo from the current range (a few of their models announced an upgrade in September, ideally wait until it's here and it works to buy if you don't already have one).

If you want to play 4K commercial content, wait at least a year until they get their act together and bypass your HDMI 1.4 AVR in the meantime using the dual HDMI out of your 4K protected source. There is no content anyway, and none to expect apart from a few proprietary ones like Sony or Samsung offer. Bluray 4K won't be here until 2015/16 if it ever arrives....

ALL the current AVRs will have to be replaced as soon as you have more than one 4K protected source that you want to switch. That's not acceptable to me for a device which is supposed to switch all my sources.

Also there is no real advantage to get the AVR (or the source) to upscale to 4K. If you have a 4K display, it probably has better upscaling than any AVR can deliver, so sending bluray with HDMI 1.4 to a 4K display gives you just about the same quality or better than if you were to use one of these 4K AVRs to do the upscaling. Either they can switch more than one protected 4K source to more than one 4K display, or they are pointless, at least from a video point of view.
Thanks for the information, I've been reading about Dolby Atmos, 4K and hdmi 2.0 in the various threads about the new 2014 AVR's. After reading a lot I started to get to the same conclusion as you have, but your posts helped to summarize the problem with the new AVR's, and I know now that I'm going to have to wait for the next years AVR's.
mR_Mo is offline  
post #16 of 20 Old 08-23-2014, 07:00 PM
Advanced Member
 
jerryez's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pensacola,FL,USA
Posts: 916
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Here is a link to Sound&Visions AV Receiver reviews:


http://www.soundandvision.com/catego...ceiver-reviews


There are some good receivers in the reviews, but each person has to make choices based on what bells and whistles they want. I chose the Onkyo TX-NR636 for price and features, but I am not ready to upgrade to Atmos or 4K yet. It just offered the bells and whistles that I wanted, after having two Yamahas. My 765 was fried by a power surge from lightning and I had to buy something.

Jerry

Samsung PN63B550 HDTV
Dish HOPPER with Sling
Onkyo TX-NR636 with Polk speakers
Samsung pn1600 Blu Ray Player
jerryez is online now  
post #17 of 20 Old 08-23-2014, 07:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
zeus33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,324
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 171 Post(s)
Liked: 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyB1966 View Post
From memory, 1080 resolution TV's have been around about 7 years?

12+ years. I had a Samsung 65" widescreen HDTV in late '01 / early '02. There wasn't much source material, but the TVs were out.
TonyB1966 likes this.
zeus33 is offline  
post #18 of 20 Old 08-23-2014, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
TonyB1966's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 363
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Wow. I stand corrected. Thanks zeus33.
TonyB1966 is offline  
post #19 of 20 Old 08-23-2014, 08:32 PM
Advanced Member
 
IntelliVolume's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 844
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 189 Post(s)
Liked: 44
I too have been pondering the same thing, but more with regard to waiting to buy a 4K TV...don't know if I should wait until 4K media starts to arrive (if it will) to look into a new player, AVR, display, cables, etc. or if all this is a long time off and I should just cave and get a new 1080p large (80" or so) LCD panel now...

IntelliVolume is offline  
post #20 of 20 Old 09-01-2014, 11:46 AM
Member
 
Tony Rox's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 78
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyB1966 View Post
Thanks everyone for your input and thoughts.

Getting an AVR every 12 or so years, I'm not one who is pedantic or hung-up on constantly future-proofing. I have to many other things keeping me occupied to be so fixated...

The 3801 still works, and while it has no HDMI, I'm able to make do as it has digital audio in (optical and coaxial). It has other shortcomings being so dated, and gets too warm when driving 4 ohm speakers... I've waited this long to replace the unit, just wondering if there is something really cool just around the corner that might appeal to me, that would make sense to wait a few more months...

Bought a new TV a couple months ago, and decided to not reach at this point, and went with an "interim" set, a plasma, 1080, non-smart TV. No 3D or 4K... Just figured that I'd wait to see what the next year or two brings, see how things play-out 4K content-wise, where OLED goes, etc... The only reason I got a new TV is simply because the new house's main living area is larger (further viewing distance). Not exactly an upgrade otherwise as the previous TV is just a few years old and we were quite happy with it...

Having just read-up a bit on ATMOS, I don't think that will be of interest to us, at least anytime soon. More than 9 speakers? Damn. Given that this year's units have HDMI 2.0, I think I will pull the trigger on something, and probably be good for another 10+ years, hopefully...

This was helpful.

That's where I'm at. I have a 3802 and am using it for audio switching only, as I have a Oppo 83, Tosh XA2, and DTV Genie, and as luck would have it, the display (Sony 60a3000) has three HDMI inputs. What I'd like is a receiver that I can stream Netflix, Pandora, etc., and of course switch HDMI, so I can cut down on some cabling. I thought that the Onkyo 838 was going to be my solution, but I'll likely just wait till after I go to CES and see what's in store for 2015.

Sony 60a3000, Denon 3802, Oppo 83, Toshiba HD-XA2, Tannoy Saturn 8's, Tannoy PS-350 sub, and some legacy stuff. Samsung PN51D530 Plasma & PS3 in the other room.
Tony Rox is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off