Are Separates Worth It? - Page 5 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 126Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #121 of 354 Old 07-17-2014, 10:10 PM
Advanced Member
 
RLBURNSIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 718
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckard97 View Post
C'mon man, what experience do you have to warrant such a strong proclamation? What amps and speakers are incorporated into your system?
I can. I own an Emotiva XPA-3 with various speakers coming and going, and it's currently collecting dust in a box behind my couch. I'm using a 20 watt NAD amp straight from my PC and it sounds just fine. It's a temp setup but I'm teetering on the edge of selling the emotiva, I just got it repaired but unless I can manage to actually find new speakers that need it, it's just an expensive and heavy paperweight and I have to say, if I could do it all over again, I would just get a better AVR than my Marantz and skip the separate amplification, and get some efficient speakers because most of the time, you don't even need more than 8 watts of power or even 1 watt for typical listening scenarios. Most of the wattage goes through your sub, the rest of the speaker is more than capably amplified with a 80-100 watt per channel set up like an AVR.

If you think you can tell the difference at typical listening volumes (i.e. volume that aren't bursting your ear drums), then you either have very inefficient speakers and need the extra power (a problem in need of a solution, since you could just buy more efficient speakers), or you are just making stuff up because seriously, it's all in your head dude.

It's been studied and separates have been shown to have zero discernable difference. That includes differences between AVRs, AMPs, not just separates vs AVRs. Most people cannot tell the difference between sets of gear. Speakers, yes. Drive them well enough but any further is truly pointless. Having overkill amounts of power won't really benefit anyone 95% of the time.

I listened to people on this website tell me I needed this Emotiva and I wish I didn't listen to the hype.

So, thanks for hyping products of dubious utility or value, AVS. Live and learn I guess.
SimpleTheater likes this.

Last edited by RLBURNSIDE; 07-17-2014 at 10:19 PM.
RLBURNSIDE is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #122 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 03:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
SimpleTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 2,698
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post
I listened to people on this website tell me I needed this Emotiva and I wish I didn't listen to the hype.

So, thanks for hyping products of dubious utility or value, AVS. Live and learn I guess.
First, thank your lucky stars you were convinced to go Emotiva rather than Krell. Second, realize that most people truly believe they hear a difference. They are told a $3000 amp is better, they buy it, hook it up to there speakers and listen. Now psychology takes over, hearing differences that amaze them. Maybe, for the first time in their life, they are actually listening to music intensely. And if that is true, the purchase of that new amp is worth it. But the reality is, in a blind test, their is no difference between the two products (assuming the cheap AVR could meet the speakers demands without clipping/distorting/melting).

The easiest test I can think of is hook up a left speaker to a cheap amp and the right to a expensive amp, then level match. Then blindfold yourself and ask a friend to switch the cables (or not), but always make a lot of noise. Then listen and right down which amp is which. Do this twenty times and you'll realize their is no difference.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
SimpleTheater is offline  
post #123 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 04:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
fatbottom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 3,277
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked: 133
Quote:
Do this twenty times and you'll realize their is no difference.
I'm afraid there is. Enjoy your low-fi.
mgavsf and Deckard97 like this.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

fatbottom is online now  
post #124 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 04:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
67jason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,845
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 773
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
I'm afraid there is. Enjoy your low-fi.
what evidence do you bring to support your claims?

and kindly knock off the snide comments please.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
LOL!
Why you wouldn't want to join this forum
67jason is online now  
post #125 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 04:15 AM
Advanced Member
 
Cvetan1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bloomington, IL
Posts: 962
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
I'm afraid there is. Enjoy your low-fi.
I'll enjoy my "low-fi" while you enjoy your Bose jewel speakers.
SimpleTheater likes this.
Cvetan1 is offline  
post #126 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 04:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
fatbottom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 3,277
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked: 133
What evidence apart from repeating to yourself, and self delusions, and confirmation bias from others saying the same thing, that all amps sound the same?

We've had a integrated/avr/pre-amp few brands here, Yamaha, Arcam, Nad, Audiolab, Lexicon, Denon, Harmon/Kardon, Sherbourne, Rotel, Roksan...all had their own sound signature.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

fatbottom is online now  
post #127 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 04:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
fatbottom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 3,277
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by vatore View Post
That's a great point, about only having to buy a good amp once.

Why do you say it's a waste with my speakers? What do you suggest?
Not exactly hard to drive, or inefficient speakers, nor high end you want to make most of them.

But if you do want dedicated power I'd look into something like 125W Outlaw, that would be plenty.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

fatbottom is online now  
post #128 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 04:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
67jason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,845
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 773
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
What evidence apart from repeating to yourself, and self delusions, and confirmation bias from others saying the same thing, that all amps sound the same?

We've had a integrated/avr/pre-amp few brands here, Yamaha, Arcam, Nad, Audiolab, Lexicon, Denon, Harmon/Kardon, Sherbourne, Rotel, Roksan...all had their own sound signature.

provide evidence please. measurement showing differences within the audible range will suffice.

and please stop the pseudo name calling as well as the snarky comments.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
LOL!
Why you wouldn't want to join this forum
67jason is online now  
post #129 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 04:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
fatbottom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 3,277
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post
provide evidence please. measurement showing differences within the audible range will suffice.

and please stop the pseudo name calling as well as the snarky comments.
Pay me £10,000 or so for an calibrated oscilloscope, and I'll look into it. And please stop repeating what others say, go and listen for yourself.

If you think all amps sound the same.... do you have hearing damage? Even when switching over a few power amplifiers there was a difference, the NAD 25W amp struggled in the bass region, it was pretty bloaty. Small room, quite efficent, easy to drive speakers.

So that knackers your amp sounds the same and only need 3W of power delusions.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

fatbottom is online now  
post #130 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 05:34 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Bill Mac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,422
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
What evidence apart from repeating to yourself, and self delusions, and confirmation bias from others saying the same thing, that all amps sound the same?

We've had a integrated/avr/pre-amp few brands here, Yamaha, Arcam, Nad, Audiolab, Lexicon, Denon, Harmon/Kardon, Sherbourne, Rotel, Roksan...all had their own sound signature.

Why not show some evidence of your own claims if you are going to request that of others. With all the manufactures you have listed above could you please list what sound signature each unit has specifically. Not trying to put you on the spot here. But I'm honestly curious as to what the sound signature differences are between each unit.


Bill

My SACD collection, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

Denon 4311 (in preamp mode), Parasound 2100, Boston Acoustics A7200 amp, Oppo BDP-103, Consonance CD120, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk Song Towers, Song Center, ADS 300C (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
Bill Mac is offline  
post #131 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 05:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
SimpleTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 2,698
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
What evidence apart from repeating to yourself, and self delusions, and confirmation bias from others saying the same thing, that all amps sound the same?
.
Multiple blind studies have been conducted.

http://www.nousaine.com/pdfs/To%20Tweak%20or%20Not.pdf
So what does all of this mean? Well, from past research we know that amplifiers, cables and CD players that have flat frequency responses and are operating within their intended limits sound the same ...

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?

Last edited by SimpleTheater; 07-18-2014 at 05:50 AM. Reason: Pertinent quote added
SimpleTheater is offline  
post #132 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 05:38 AM
Advanced Member
 
Ricoflashback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 946
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post
No difference in sound. As long as your AVR operates with enough power not to clip, then going to separates would simply cost more and add complexity to the system. Most external amplifiers are purchased because they are wanted, not because they are needed.
I do not agree with this position or the blanket statement that there is no difference between an integrated AVR and separates.

My comparison is between my 9.2 Pioneer SC65 - 130 wpc (in 7.1) mode for HT & music versus using my SC65 as a "Preamp" with the Class D - Wyred 4 Sound MMC 7.1 amplifier - - 221 wpc.

In a couple words - - separation and clarity are the two main advantages that I have experienced in using "separates." Multichannel SACD's sound fantastic with better separation compared to using the Pioneer SC65 alone. (This was also an unsolicited observation from a friend when we listened to a recent 5.1 SACD CD.) There is also more "punch" to Dolby and DTS movie soundtracks.

Lastly - - I am listening at lower volumes for satellite TV and music. Especially at night - - and that has made my girlfriend very happy!

O.K. - - it's not a blind test and all the purists/scientists in the world can talk about the necessity to validate the findings and that there is no appreciable difference between an integrated AVR and separates.

For me, having separates has been worth every penny. When I need to update my "Preamp" - - it will be an easy conversion. The Wyred MMC 7.1 will be an integral part of my HT and music setup for a long, long time. IMHO.
mgavsf and Deckard97 like this.

Home Theater Setup
Samsung UN65ES8000 LCD/LED
BenQ W1080ST Projector
Pioneer SC65 (Pre-Amp)
Wyred4Sound MMC-7 Channel Amplifier, 221wpc
OPPO 103, Directv GENIE
Darbee Darblet
ALL Paradigm - 7.1 - Studio 60's, V.2 (FL/FR)
CC-690, V.5 (C)
ADP 590 V.5 (SS)
MilleniaOne 2.0 (BS) - Velodyne 810 Sub
Ricoflashback is offline  
post #133 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 05:41 AM
Member
 
ohrbrcko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Let me ask a question regarding the equipment reviews published by Stereophile Magazine. I skim over them as I don't have any sort of background to understand them. There is usually a number of charts/ graphs displayed in their reviews. I gather that from the review process that the equipment is put through that in fact they all have their own profile in terms of what the charts/graphs look like. Could this mean that this potentially translates into a different sound, sound signature, etc. for audio equipment? For example, two Amps have different charts/graphs that were produced through a testing and evaluation process. Could this mean that they sound different ? May be our hearing is such that we can't in many cases identify the sound differences but maybe they are there at least on paper anyways. Again, I was a liberal arts major and not a tech/audio savy person so I am just asking some questions that I am thinking about as I read through this discussion. Have a great weekend one and all...baseball starts up again today!
ohrbrcko is offline  
post #134 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 05:46 AM
FMW
AVS Special Member
 
FMW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,551
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Liked: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
I do not agree with this position or the blanket statement that there is no difference between an integrated AVR and separates.

My comparison is between my 9.2 Pioneer SC65 - 130 wpc (in 7.1) mode for HT & music versus using my SC65 as a "Preamp" with the Class D - Wyred 4 Sound MMC 7.1 amplifier - - 221 wpc.

In a couple words - - separation and clarity are the two main advantages that I have experienced in using "separates." Multichannel SACD's sound fantastic with better separation compared to using the Pioneer SC65 alone. (This was also an unsolicited observation from a friend when we listened to a recent 5.1 SACD CD.) There is also more "punch" to Dolby and DTS movie soundtracks.

Lastly - - I am listening at lower volumes for satellite TV and music. Especially at night - - and that has made my girlfriend very happy!

O.K. - - it's not a blind test and all the purists/scientists in the world can talk about the necessity to validate the findings and that there is no appreciable difference between an integrated AVR and separates.

For me, having separates has been worth every penny. When I need to update my "Preamp" - - it will be an easy conversion. The Wyred MMC 7.1 will be an integral part of my HT and music setup for a long, long time. IMHO.

I guess I don't have to explain to you the value of your sighted listening experience. I stand by what I said. I've actually done the blind tests.
SimpleTheater likes this.
FMW is online now  
post #135 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 05:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
fatbottom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 3,277
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post
I guess I don't have to explain to you the value of your sighted listening experience. I stand by what I said. I've actually done the blind tests.
If I recall, in a basketball court with crap JBL speakers?

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

fatbottom is online now  
post #136 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 05:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
SimpleTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 2,698
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohrbrcko View Post
Let me ask a question regarding the equipment reviews published by Stereophile Magazine. I skim over them as I don't have any sort of background to understand them. There is usually a number of charts/ graphs displayed in their reviews. I gather that from the review process that the equipment is put through that in fact they all have their own profile in terms of what the charts/graphs look like. Could this mean that this potentially translates into a different sound, sound signature, etc. for audio equipment? For example, two Amps have different charts/graphs that were produced through a testing and evaluation process. Could this mean that they sound different ? May be our hearing is such that we can't in many cases identify the sound differences but maybe they are there at least on paper anyways. Again, I was a liberal arts major and not a tech/audio savy person so I am just asking some questions that I am thinking about as I read through this discussion. Have a great weekend one and all...baseball starts up again today!
There are two possibilities. One, the differences between the two are measurable but inaudible. This is usually the situation as extremely sensitive equipment can detect differences even dogs couldn't hear.

Second, as the great Bob Carver has said, he can make his amplifier sound like anything he wants. If he doesn't want a flat frequency response, he can modify the design. It would be a faulty amplifier in the sense it is changing the signal from the source, but it could be designed to sound different enough that you could hear a difference.
ohrbrcko likes this.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
SimpleTheater is offline  
post #137 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 06:08 AM
FMW
AVS Special Member
 
FMW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,551
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Liked: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohrbrcko View Post
Let me ask a question regarding the equipment reviews published by Stereophile Magazine. I skim over them as I don't have any sort of background to understand them. There is usually a number of charts/ graphs displayed in their reviews. I gather that from the review process that the equipment is put through that in fact they all have their own profile in terms of what the charts/graphs look like. Could this mean that this potentially translates into a different sound, sound signature, etc. for audio equipment? For example, two Amps have different charts/graphs that were produced through a testing and evaluation process. Could this mean that they sound different ? May be our hearing is such that we can't in many cases identify the sound differences but maybe they are there at least on paper anyways. Again, I was a liberal arts major and not a tech/audio savy person so I am just asking some questions that I am thinking about as I read through this discussion. Have a great weekend one and all...baseball starts up again today!

There are some sonic differences between some amplifiers but those amplifiers are not usually the ones that are being discussed in this forum. Not all differences in measurements are audible. The test equipment Stereophile uses is more sensitive than your hearing or mine so virtually every amplifier will have different measurements. Audible differences between various amplifiers, on the other hand, are pretty rare.


The only reliable way to determine audible differences is with bias controlled listening and audio magazines don't do bias controlled listening. Not only is it difficult to do but it would destroy magazine sales if they printed the results since it belies the content of that prose.


Interestingly, Stereophile did do a decent bias controlled test once at an audio show and discovered a barely statistically significant audible difference between two amplifiers. One was a solid state amp and the other was a high end tube amp. Those of us with experience in bias controlled comparisons often find obvious audible differences between solid state gear and tube gear so it is a credit to that manufacturer that their product was just barely differentiated from solid state in the test.


I once did an amplifier comparison between a solid state amp and a tube amp and had a result of no audible difference. Every other similar comparison had a statistically significant audible difference.


Audiophiles hate the concept of bias controlled testing because it appears to attack their egos by showing that audio electronics are not a meaningful way to improve sound quality. I was one of them but cured myself of it by going through the effort of conducting the tests. You can read their comments in the posts above this one and elsewhere. "Trust your ears," "You have impaired hearing," "the blind bias controlled tests are flawed." We hear it all the time. What they fail to accept is the logical conclusion that if a listener can't distinguish the sound of one unit from another without knowing which is which, then there is no audible difference. If the differences exist in a sighted test then they must be caused by hearing bias not by anything in the equipment. It is simply illogical to believe otherwise. Lots of illogical thinking in audio.

Last edited by FMW; 07-18-2014 at 06:15 AM.
FMW is online now  
post #138 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 06:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
67jason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,845
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 773
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
Pay me £10,000 or so for an calibrated oscilloscope, and I'll look into it. And please stop repeating what others say, go and listen for yourself.

If you think all amps sound the same.... do you have hearing damage? Even when switching over a few power amplifiers there was a difference, the NAD 25W amp struggled in the bass region, it was pretty bloaty. Small room, quite efficent, easy to drive speakers.

So that knackers your amp sounds the same and only need 3W of power delusions.

for the third time can you please stop calling me names and posting snide and snarky comments? can you discuss like an adult?

and what makes you think i am repeating what others say?

do you know if i have done any of my own testing and research?

I think if you did just one proper dbt your eyes and ears would open up....and maybe humble you just a bit as well.

seperates, and high power amps and esoteric gear has its place, but i take issue with the bogus claims you make. i dont believe in fairy dust or unicorn farts. modern solid state gear is designed to such a standard that audible differences are not discernible. if you experienced so called "bloated bass" on one amp vs another, i challenge you to level match them and test them under double blind conditions.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
LOL!
Why you wouldn't want to join this forum
67jason is online now  
post #139 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 06:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
67jason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,845
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 773
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
If I recall, in a basketball court with crap JBL speakers?
geeez...always got an irrelevant cheap shot to post. are you capable of discussing the issues at hand with out resorting to petty antics?

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
LOL!
Why you wouldn't want to join this forum
67jason is online now  
post #140 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 06:24 AM
AVS Special Member
 
fatbottom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 3,277
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post
geeez...always got an irrelevant cheap shot to post. are you capable of discussing the issues at hand with out resorting to petty antics?
Why waste my breath? Even Yamaha A1 at reference sounded bloody awful.

okay sonny you carry on with your delusions...pats you on the head. whatever makes you happy.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

fatbottom is online now  
post #141 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 06:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
67jason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,845
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 773
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
Why waste my breath? Even Yamaha A1 at reference sounded bloody awful.

okay sonny you carry on with your delusions...pats you on the head. whatever makes you happy.
one more condescending post i will start reporting you.. i have politely asked you 3 times now to cut it out. it serves no purpose.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
LOL!
Why you wouldn't want to join this forum
67jason is online now  
post #142 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 06:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
fatbottom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 3,277
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post
one more condescending post i will start reporting you.. i have politely asked you 3 times now to cut it out. it serves no purpose.

Go ahead. All reason and thinking for yourself is lost. Where is your evidence to support YOUR OWN claim that all amps sound the same? Some other group doing testing? Nope. What do you own? How anyone can say the Roksan Kandy K1 sounds the same as a Arcam Alpha, hahaha. Deaf.

And like all people with group delusions, you want to silence opposing opinions.

You just aren't interested in someone else giving own opinion, you just want confirmation of your belief.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

fatbottom is online now  
post #143 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 06:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
SimpleTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 2,698
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post
one more condescending post i will start reporting you.. i have politely asked you 3 times now to cut it out. it serves no purpose.
He's just trolling. He doesn't have the equipment he says, as most people with money don't act like children. Seriously, a Krell amp hooked up to $120 speakers? I put my money into an acoustically designed room where you CAN hear the difference, and of course, speakers.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
SimpleTheater is offline  
post #144 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 06:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
67jason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,845
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 773
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
Go ahead. All reason and thinking for yourself is lost. Where is your evidence to support YOUR OWN claim that all amps sound the same? Some other group doing testing? Nope. What do you own? How anyone can say the Roksan Kandy K1 sounds the same as a Arcam Alpha, hahaha. Deaf.

And like all people with group delusions, you want to silence opposing opinions.

You just aren't interested in someone else giving own opinion, you just want confirmation of your belief.
wow...just wow....what a poor lost cause you are.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
LOL!
Why you wouldn't want to join this forum
67jason is online now  
post #145 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 06:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
67jason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,845
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 773
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post
He's just trolling. He doesn't have the equipment he says, as most people with money don't act like children. Seriously, a Krell amp hooked up to $120 speakers? I put my money into an acoustically designed room where you CAN hear the difference, and of course, speakers.
typical...i suspected as much. hopefully others trying to learn can see through his antics.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
LOL!
Why you wouldn't want to join this forum
67jason is online now  
post #146 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 07:00 AM
Super Moderator
 
Bob Sorel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 8,454
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Fatbottom has been banned from this thread due to his condescending posting style. There is no need to be insulting to debate a point.
Bill Mac and abatsky like this.
Bob Sorel is offline  
post #147 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 07:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
67jason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,845
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post
Fatbottom has been banned from this thread due to his condescending posting style. There is no need to be insulting to debate a point.
thank you!

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
LOL!
Why you wouldn't want to join this forum
67jason is online now  
post #148 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 07:56 AM
Advanced Member
 
joehonest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 978
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked: 30
I honestly believe nobody is going to post the end all to this, which has not been done, but tried countless times.. If your looking for something and found what you want, than you are happier than most. I feel sorry for the ones who believe and can't handle the fact that some hardware is just better, and most of time costs a hell of a lot more. For those who have capped and limited their mind by not wanting to believe there is better, or/and not willing to work for it, well good luck..
Deckard97 likes this.

Last edited by joehonest; 07-18-2014 at 08:22 AM.
joehonest is offline  
post #149 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 08:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
g_bartman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: cleveland, oh
Posts: 3,177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 51
This subject certainly stirs up controversy. I think it would be great if avs forum sponsored an event to help put this matter to rest. It should be done in a typical home listening type room. There should be a few different pairs of speakers playing music with a lot of detail. Of course, the speakers should be known to be able to discern the detail within the recordings. It is my belief that the more detail in a track, the more possible it could be to be able to tell any audible difference between amps and or receivers. If such an event ever occurs, I'll be there. I know there have been previous double blind studies, but wouldn't it be great to actually attend one?
lovinthehd likes this.

g_bartman is offline  
post #150 of 354 Old 07-18-2014, 08:48 AM
Advanced Member
 
joehonest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 978
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post
This subject certainly stirs up controversy. I think it would be great if avs forum sponsored an event to help put this matter to rest. It should be done in a typical home listening type room. There should be a few different pairs of speakers playing music with a lot of detail. Of course, the speakers should be known to be able to discern the detail within the recordings. It is my belief that the more detail in a track, the more possible it could be to be able to tell any audible difference between amps and or receivers. If such an event ever occurs, I'll be there. I know there have been previous double blind studies, but wouldn't it be great to actually attend one?
Their really is no need I've proved it to my self many times, its really not that hard to prove. Just compare a AB to D class amps which I did many times in my home. I'm happy to report I heard the changes to my hard to drive magnepan tympani speakers. This is in just simple stereo, so it was very easy to judge, no blind fold was needed!
Dragboatdad likes this.
joehonest is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off