Are Separates Worth It? - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post
Multiple blind studies have been conducted.

http://www.nousaine.com/pdfs/To%20Tweak%20or%20Not.pdf
So what does all of this mean? Well, from past research we know that amplifiers, cables and CD players that have flat frequency responses and are operating within their intended limits sound the same ...
What I would have liked to have seen from this study is to have listener A and listener E take a break and then do 10 more tests. (A had 8 of his last 10 correct and listener E got his last 5 correct.)

What I'd like to try is to have a DB test with my system compared to a level matched cheap system. It seems to me that a person who is familiar with the nuances of their particular system would have a better opportunity to pick out differences.
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post #152 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by charmerci View Post
It seems to me that a person who is familiar with the nuances of their particular system would have a better opportunity to pick out differences.
That's the only way its going to work at this level, with the good stuff. Its not as easy as picking black or white, you got to know that your looking for so when you find it you just don't pass it by..
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post #153 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by joehonest View Post
Their really is no need I've proved it to my self many times, its really not that hard to prove. Just compare a AB to D class amps which I did many times in my home. I'm happy to report I heard the changes to my hard to drive magnepan tympani speakers. This is in just simple stereo, so it was very easy to judge, no blind fold was needed!
Okay, but you proved it to yourself. I'm saying to would be great to do what I suggested so people in both camps could attend. May be some attendees could hear a difference and some could not. May be everyone could or could not. It could help extinguish the fire that seems to be burning out of control. I have my theory but can not scientifically prove it. My theory is that there are some subtle to moderate to (in some rare instances) substantial differences in sound between amps and receivers. In some cases I think there are absolutely no discernible differences. just depends on the amps and associated equipment. I run a Mcintosh amp for my main L/R speakers. If I could hear for myself that it is sonically no better than a $300.00 receiver, I'd sell it tomorrow. Regretfully though, those blue meters sure are pretty.

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post #154 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Dragboatdad View Post
Each of these amps weigh almost as much as my avr.
They sound amazing. I primarily listen to music so the better quality is really noticeable. For 5.2, I use the other avr channels. This is by no means big $ stuff, but together with my oppo and some decent ( mostly velodyne) subs, I have a system that didn't break the bank and sounds incredible. .
That's the point I made, balance what you like with your budget. Simple. Good for you! Some here think it's all in our heads, I can only assume some people have better hearing than others, what else could it be?
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post #155 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by joehonest View Post
Their really is no need I've proved it to my self many times, its really not that hard to prove. Just compare a AB to D class amps which I did many times in my home. I'm happy to report I heard the changes to my hard to drive magnepan tympani speakers. This is in just simple stereo, so it was very easy to judge, no blind fold was needed!
I have heard the debate about Class AB versus Class D Amps. I've also heard the debate about tube versus solid state. Since I was used to a Class D amp with my Pioneer SC65 - - it was easy for me to move to the Class D Wyred 4 Sound MMC 7.1 (with the observations in my earlier post.) Could an AB amp sound better on my system? Maybe, but the smaller footprint (fits into my rack) and the lower energy cost/watts made it an easy decision for me.

But for the scientific community on this thread - - the bias test, measurements, etc. - - they would say:

  1. There is no audible difference between solid state and tube amps
  2. There is no audible difference between an AVR or using separates - no need for separates
  3. There is no audible difference between a CD and a High Res file
  4. There is no audible difference between Bluray players
  5. There is no difference between hamburger and filet mignon - it's all beef.

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post #156 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post
Okay, those blue meters sure are pretty.
Yes They are
For me the "system" is the amp / speaker combo, better amps handle changing speaker impedance loads of less than 4 ohms, that is the key factor, there other factors too.
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post #157 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post

But for the scientific community on this thread - - the bias test, measurements, etc. - - they would say:

  1. There is no audible difference between solid state and tube amps
  2. There is no audible difference between an AVR or using separates - no need for separates
  3. There is no audible difference between a CD and a High Res file
  4. There is no audible difference between Bluray players
  5. There is no difference between hamburger and filet mignon - it's all beef.
Some people will believe anything until they try it out for them selfs
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post #158 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
I have heard the debate about Class AB versus Class D Amps. I've also heard the debate about tube versus solid state. Since I was used to a Class D amp with my Pioneer SC65 - - it was easy for me to move to the Class D Wyred 4 Sound MMC 7.1 (with the observations in my earlier post.) Could an AB amp sound better on my system? Maybe, but the smaller footprint (fits into my rack) and the lower energy cost/watts made it an easy decision for me.

But for the scientific community on this thread - - the bias test, measurements, etc. - - they would say:

  1. There is no audible difference between solid state and tube amps
  2. There is no audible difference between an AVR or using separates - no need for separates
  3. There is no audible difference between a CD and a High Res file
  4. There is no audible difference between Bluray players
  5. There is no difference between hamburger and filet mignon - it's all beef.
There can be audible differences between amps. You mention tube amps. There's been some tube amps that measured 10% THD. I would expect them to have a coloration. They don't have massive distortion because they are a tube amp, it's due to their specific design, but I don't know of any solid state amps like that.

There should be no audible difference between blu-ray players sending audio over HDMI. I suspect jitter doesn't matter for HDMI due to the fact all the packets have to be buffered. It's not worth considering IMO. If you connect it with analog cables, I suppose the DAC could have an effect. It doesn't seem like it should, but there's always a possibility.

I would not go as far to say there's no audible difference between amps. But due to a number of blind listening tests over the years, surely it's less, as a general statement than people claim.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #159 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post
There can be audible differences between amps. You mention tube amps. There's been some tube amps that measured 10% THD. I would expect them to have a coloration. They don't have massive distortion because they are a tube amp, it's due to their specific design, but I don't know of any solid state amps like that.

Coloration isn't a bad thing if you like what you hear, clipping thats BAD. All speakers and rooms add some coloration.
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post #160 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 10:56 AM
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This is an article which discusses factors which could cause amplifiers to sound different from a engineer perspective. I can't say I learned much from it, but it's better than guesswork

Overload recovery is something rarely discussed here. Possibly because no review I have seen tests it. It is interesting to note that if an amp does clip, they may not sound the same. It's unfortunate that receivers are not equipped with a clipping detection and warning system.

http://sound.westhost.com/amp-sound.htm

"But this one goes up to 11"

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post #161 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post
There should be no audible difference between blu-ray players sending audio over HDMI. I suspect jitter doesn't matter for HDMI due to the fact all the packets have to be buffered.
I heard a difference. Not from the sound output, but the player itself. My neighbor just bought a WalMart special $59 BluRay player and he forgot to buy an HDMI cable. I brought over an extra one and we hooked it up. Then I heard this high pitched whining noise and, you guessed it, when that player began spinning the disc it was loud! Maybe he could have hid the player in a closet, but his setup was all below the flat screen TV. For some crazy reason he still has it. I guess some people just don't care.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
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post #162 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post
Something I have noticed here. There's actually two discussions, and it's not always clear which is which

1) Does a preprocessor have audio quality and/or audio fidelity benefits over a receiver used as a pre proc? This is a bit murky as there's a wide price range from Emo to 20k processors. I think the question might be whether having an amp section interferes with the non power amp circuitry?
2) Does having an external amplifier vs. using a receiver's amp section have a benefit? Again there's a bunch of factors such as the fact that the amp is in a different box, or the amp may have more power, or the amp may perform better into lower impedance loads to name some

Realizing this, the discussion is a bit ambiguous. I figure for (1,) people will spend based on their budget. Not everyone can afford expensive processors. Some will shy away from Emo processors, and embrace using an AVR with pre outs as a processor due to their excellent feature vs. price. Whether they have compromised sound due to their budget is a question of sorts. Some just want to know if they should save money they have available by not buying a more expensive dedicated processor. I feel it's fair to suggest they CAN save money. This due to many years of reading up on this topic and coming to this conclusion. I feel a receiver can do the job with at worst a slight loss of fidelity.

The second discussion is more common, and it asks whether buying an external amp can have benefits over AVR amplifiers. Obviously it has a chance to make an effect. As I mentioned before, for $1000 or less on sale, the Outlaw 7125 has a massive transformer you don't see even in high end AVRs. It has 20,000 uf of capacitance which might be better than most AVRs. In general, it's a very well built piece of equipment, and performs excellently into 4 ohms. Not all AVRs do well into lower impedance loads due to a weak power supply or limiting circuitry. So people will say, if you can afford more power, go for it. As for fidelity, it's hard to discuss amplifier fidelity as numerous blind tests have shown amplifiers tend to sound very similar. If you say you can hear the difference, than by all means act on that. But please understand why other people say what they do - there's plenty of evidence only power seems likely to make a difference based on a lot of evidence.
1. The same question would apply to AVR's....since there is a wide price range among brands
some would argue that a $2K receiver sounds no better than their $1K of the same brand
clearly...the lower end you go the better value it represents

also..in regard to pre/pro
do you mean the Asian modeals...Yamaha CX-a5000..Marantz 8801....Onkyo 5509...or do you mean reference pieces like the Anthem statement D2V

There is a big difference in money if you go to the non asian brands

2. generally...I would yes and that has been my experience
Although it depends on the AVR and amp in questions


Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Onkyo 5508 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp Atlantic technology System 350 THX Ultra speakers
Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Pioneer SC37 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Samsung 51E8000 Yamaha A2010 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
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post #163 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by joehonest View Post
Another battle of witts(sic) between the haves and have nots.
True in the sense that it is self evident that this is discussion between those who have technical expertise and those who do not. Look at the nature of the discussions. Who is citing facts, figures, and reliable tests? Who is making unsupported claims. Who is making ad hominem attacks such as is indicted by a face value interpretation of the statement above?

Any idea that personal wealth is a strong influence in these discussions presumes knowledge that the writer above can't possibly have.

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Originally Posted by joehonest View Post
If you got the money, buy the best, you earned it.
Life is not that simple. While I am not personally wealthy, I was raised and live in an affluent community whose very name is commonly used as a status symbol. I have friends and acquaintances who are centa and deca millionaires.

In this particular community there far, far more expensive yachts than there are expensive A/V systems. In the lives of my friends and neighbors, if they have the money do to so, they first buy the finest homes and boats.

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Originally Posted by joehonest View Post
If your(sic) piss poor, keep telling yourself it all sounds the same.. One day (hopefully) your luck will change and so will your hearing, funny, rich people senses, seeing, hearing, feel and taste, are highly tuned and they got the checkbook to back it up, talk is cheap..
Nobody needs to be wealthy or spend the big bucks in order to have as many opportunities as they need to listen to expensive audio systems. That's why there are high end audio salons, that is why there are high end audio shows.

Compared to an expensive home, automobile, or boat, an expensive audio system costs chump change. I don't think how aware you are of how your opviously poor writing skills suggests cost cutting in the area of education, another area of major expense in my community.
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post #164 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 11:47 AM
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I honestly believe nobody is going to post the end all to this, which has not been done, but tried countless times.. If your looking for something and found what you want, than you are happier than most. I feel sorry for the ones who believe and can't handle the fact that some hardware is just better, and most of time costs a hell of a lot more. For those who have capped and limited their mind by not wanting to believe there is better, or/and not willing to work for it, well good luck..

It is a matter of belief vs. test results. You believe whatever you like. I'll stick with the test results. I think there is sometimes a sonic improvement that can be had by spending more on speakers. Not always. I've heard very expensive speakers that sounded horrible to me. In the area of electronics, my test results say spending more money just spends more money. If it soothes the ego or the eye for fashion then that is a positive outcome. It becomes a matter of putting a value on those things.


I, for one, have been a high end audiophile. I've had systems that cost more than my first house. I understand the allure of it. But test results don't lie and they do tend to obviate the beliefs. That's why I'm a former audiophile.
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post #165 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by charmerci View Post
What I would have liked to have seen from this study is to have listener A and listener E take a break and then do 10 more tests. (A had 8 of his last 10 correct and listener E got his last 5 correct.)

What I'd like to try is to have a DB test with my system compared to a level matched cheap system. It seems to me that a person who is familiar with the nuances of their particular system would have a better opportunity to pick out differences.
Your problem is obviously a lack of financial resources. Since this thread has turned into class warfare, should I point out that if you were sufficiently well-educated, wealthy or influential you could have had the opportunity to have experience all of the things you have mentioned?

I am not wealthy but I've easily done as many DBTs as my late friend Tom Nousiane, and I've had the opportunity to examine all of those things that you mention. This situation is not marginal. All good amplifiers and CD players measure well enough and when compared are either indistinguishable or have differences so small that they are not strong influences on over all system sound quality.

Look at the world around you! People who are interested in the best possible sound quality are putting the majority of their investment into excellent speaker systems and acoustically treated listening rooms.
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post #166 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
True in the sense that it is self evident that this is discussion between those who have technical expertise and those who do not. Look at the nature of the discussions. Who is citing facts, figures, and reliable tests? Who is making unsupported claims. Who is making ad hominem attacks such as is indicted by a face value interpretation of the statement above?

Any idea that personal wealth is a strong influence in these discussions presumes knowledge that the writer above can't possibly have.



Life is not that simple. While I am not personally wealthy, I was raised and live in an affluent community whose very name is commonly used as a status symbol. I have friends and acquaintances who are centa and deca millionaires.

In this particular community there far, far more expensive yachts than there are expensive A/V systems. In the lives of my friends and neighbors, if they have the money do to so, they first buy the finest homes and boats.



Nobody needs to be wealthy or spend the big bucks in order to have as many opportunities as they need to listen to expensive audio systems. That's why there are high end audio salons, that is why there are high end audio shows.

Compared to an expensive home, automobile, or boat, an expensive audio system costs chump change. I don't think how aware you are of how your opviously poor writing skills suggests cost cutting in the area of education, another area of major expense in my community.

Well said, Arny. It is hard for some people to understand that some people don't spend all the money they can on certain things. The arrogance gets in the way, apparently.
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post #167 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post
If I could hear for myself that it is sonically no better than a $300.00 receiver, I'd sell it tomorrow. Regretfully though, those blue meters sure are pretty.
Did a blind test (set up by a knowledgeable friend with the expertise and equipment) of my NAD separates vs an inexpensive Class D amp. At the levels at which I listen (important emphasis), I could detect no differences, even after extended listening. The NAD components are now in my closet. If you embrace the science, you've gotta live it, too. :-)

Best,

Brian
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post #168 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 11:54 AM
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For me, separates have been worth it. Over ten years ago, I purchased two used American made amplifiers for just under $900--Adcom GFA-555II(1995) and Cinepro 2K5 (1999). I just recently purchased a B stock Emotiva pre/pro and have all the new features I need with my old Outlaw pre/pro delegated for back up, if needed. I made the decision to keep my amps when I learned most of today's $1K receivers are made in China. I still have three receivers in use at my house--Denon AVR-2500(~1994), Yamaha AVR-2500(~2005), and Marantz SR6005(2011). As far as SQ goes?? No comment, my best equipment is in the HT with the separates; however, I would like to hear some JTRs, Lepai T amp, and a smartphone source one day.
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post #169 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by joehonest View Post
That's the only way its going to work at this level, with the good stuff. Its not as easy as picking black or white, you got to know that your looking for so when you find it you just don't pass it by..

It would be fun to watch your face during a bias controlled listening test. I've seen the look before.
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post #170 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
1. The same question would apply to AVR's....since there is a wide price range among brands
some would argue that a $2K receiver sounds no better than their $1K of the same brand
clearly...the lower end you go the better value it represents.
Exactly, only you shift the price range down by half and still reach the same conclusion.

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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
also..in regard to pre/pro
do you mean the Asian modeals...Yamaha CX-a5000..Marantz 8801....Onkyo 5509...or do you mean reference pieces like the Anthem statement D2V

There is a big difference in money if you go to the non asian brands
And one must ask why, as I can show you pictures of much non-asian brand equipment that says that it was made in asia. Since asian parts producers dominate component manufacturing (resistors, capacitors, semiconductors, transformers, chassis, etc.) even if the piece of audio gear was built in the UK, US or Canada, it was largely manufactured in asia.
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post #171 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post

But for the scientific community on this thread - - the bias test, measurements, etc. - - they would say:
  1. There is no audible difference between solid state and tube amps
  2. There is no audible difference between an AVR or using separates - no need for separates
  3. There is no audible difference between a CD and a High Res file
  4. There is no audible difference between Bluray players
  5. There is no difference between hamburger and filet mignon - it's all beef.
You might do well to speak only for yourself. It is actually quite presumptive to stuff words into the mouths of people that you seem to disrespect.

All of the things you mention may sound different depending on the operational circumstances and the choice of alternatives.

Or not.
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post #172 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
Exactly, only you shift the price range down by half and still reach the same conclusion.



And one must ask why, as I can show you pictures of much non-asian brand equipment that says that it was made in asia. Since asian parts producers dominate component manufacturing (resistors, capacitors, semiconductors, transformers, chassis, etc.) even if the piece of audio gear was built in the UK, US or Canada, it was largely manufactured in asia.
agreed....nothing above the most average product represents a the best value

Walmart corporation has proven that in droves

When I said Asian..I meant where the company was based

OTOH......high end Non-asian brands are not built in Malaysia ......like the majority of the Asians brands production takes place

I dont see a Made in Asia label on the back of Anthem or McIntosh products...for example


Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Onkyo 5508 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp Atlantic technology System 350 THX Ultra speakers
Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Pioneer SC37 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Samsung 51E8000 Yamaha A2010 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
Rm 4 Panasonic 50ST50 Onkyo 5009/906 Mirage Omni sat speaker system

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post #173 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 12:34 PM
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Right there on the back. Anthem MRX710 made in China.


http://www.anthemav.com/products-cur...0/page=gallery
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post #174 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

I dont see a Made in Asia label on the back of Anthem or McIntosh products...for example


Warren
Take a look at the new Anthem recievers. made in China.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
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post #175 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post
Right there on the back. Anthem MRX710 made in China.


http://www.anthemav.com/products-cur...0/page=gallery
and you pic the low end unit?

I guess I was considering products like the D2V and P5

http://www.anthemav.com/products-cur...d/page=gallery

which is why I would buy products like this in the first place

but...my comment was really intended to spurn discussion about where they were made but rather where the company was based

My own separates...Onkyo 5508 and Sherbourn 5/1500A were made in China

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post
Take a look at the new Anthem recievers. made in China.
so the majority of their products are make in China?...I was talking their separates...not receivers

I will tell you the d2V..P5 and the other pieces are not

I reference that because this thread was about differences in separates and receivers

Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Onkyo 5508 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp Atlantic technology System 350 THX Ultra speakers
Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Pioneer SC37 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Samsung 51E8000 Yamaha A2010 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
Rm 4 Panasonic 50ST50 Onkyo 5009/906 Mirage Omni sat speaker system

Last edited by turnne1; 07-18-2014 at 12:51 PM.
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post #176 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
and you pic the low end unit?

I guess I was considering products like the D2V and P5

but...my comment was really intended to spurn discussion about where they were made but rather where the company was based

My own separates...Onkyo 5508 and Sherbourn 5/1500A were made in China



so the majority of their products are make in China?...I was talking their separates...not receivers

I will tell you the d2V..P5 and the other pieces are not

I reference that because this thread was about differences in separates and receivers

Warren
The MRX 710 is their top of the line AVR. IF you read the whole thread it really doesn't matter if it's separates or an AVR by many opinions here.
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post #177 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post
The MRX 710 is their top of the line AVR. IF you read the whole thread it really doesn't matter if it's separates or an AVR by many opinions here.
I guess I am of the opinion

1. Separates offer higher performance than an AVR...and have stated that earlier
whether or not one will utilize that performance difference is another question

2. IMO...if you are looking at products like Anthem,Krell, mcIntosh etc you are probably not seriously considering an AVR

If you expect that MX710 to peform anywhere near Statement D2V pre-pro/P5 amp combo you are seriously kidding yourself

I can tell you there is a BIG difference in that combo and my Onkyo 5508 and Sherbourn 5/1500A
and btw...I have an Onkyo 5009 AVR, Pioneer SC37 currently...and have had Yamaha A3000...Pnkyo 905 and few others in the past
My separates will outperform any AVR I have owned...the Anthem set will outperform the separates I have

Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Onkyo 5508 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp Atlantic technology System 350 THX Ultra speakers
Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Pioneer SC37 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Samsung 51E8000 Yamaha A2010 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
Rm 4 Panasonic 50ST50 Onkyo 5009/906 Mirage Omni sat speaker system

Last edited by turnne1; 07-18-2014 at 01:02 PM.
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post #178 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
True in the sense that it is self evident that this is discussion between those who have technical expertise and those who do not. Look at the nature of the discussions. Who is citing facts, figures, and reliable tests? Who is making unsupported claims. Who is making ad hominem attacks such as is indicted by a face value interpretation of the statement above?

Any idea that personal wealth is a strong influence in these discussions presumes knowledge that the writer above can't possibly have.



Life is not that simple. While I am not personally wealthy, I was raised and live in an affluent community whose very name is commonly used as a status symbol. I have friends and acquaintances who are centa and deca millionaires.

In this particular community there far, far more expensive yachts than there are expensive A/V systems. In the lives of my friends and neighbors, if they have the money do to so, they first buy the finest homes and boats.



Nobody needs to be wealthy or spend the big bucks in order to have as many opportunities as they need to listen to expensive audio systems. That's why there are high end audio salons, that is why there are high end audio shows.

Compared to an expensive home, automobile, or boat, an expensive audio system costs chump change. I don't think how aware you are of how your opviously poor writing skills suggests cost cutting in the area of education, another area of major expense in my community.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post
It is a matter of belief vs. test results. You believe whatever you like. I'll stick with the test results. I think there is sometimes a sonic improvement that can be had by spending more on speakers. Not always. I've heard very expensive speakers that sounded horrible to me. In the area of electronics, my test results say spending more money just spends more money. If it soothes the ego or the eye for fashion then that is a positive outcome. It becomes a matter of putting a value on those things.


I, for one, have been a high end audiophile. I've had systems that cost more than my first house. I understand the allure of it. But test results don't lie and they do tend to obviate the beliefs. That's why I'm a former audiophile.

It sounds like you guys shorted the market today
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post #179 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post
Take a look at the new Anthem recievers. made in China.
Never understood why there's the automatic assumption that stuff built in China is inferior. If I owned an audio company, I would have my own QA to ensure the product was built to the engineering specs. If it was, and the components are of the proper quality, where's the concern?

I would assume the components are almost all Asian made anyway. Resistors, caps, transformers even ASICs. I suppose a US company could try to source as much parts as possible from the US and then build it. But my betting money is on most of the components being from Asia.
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post #180 of 371 Old 07-18-2014, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
I guess I am of the opinion

1. Separates offer higher performance than an AVR...and have stated that earlier
whether or not one will utilize that performance difference is another question

2. IMO...if you are looking at products like Anthem,Krell, mcIntosh etc you are probably not seriously considering an AVR

If you expect that MX710 to peform anywhere near Statement D2V pre-pro/P5 amp combo you are seriously kidding yourself

I can tell you there is a BIG difference in that combo and my Onkyo 5508 and Sherbourn 5/1500A

and btw...I have an Onkyo 5009 AVR, Pioneer SC37 currently...and have had Yamaha A3000...Pnkyo 905 and few others in the past
My separates will outperform any AVR I have owned...the Anthem set will outperform the separates I have

Warren
How did you make the comparison between the D2V/P5 and your Onkyo/Sherbourn?
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