best avr w/out an amp for cm9s - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 19 Old 07-22-2014, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 0
best avr w/out an amp for cm9s

i am getting ready to buy a pair of cm9's along with 4 b&w m1's for my surrounds. i am pretty set on the speakers but not so much on what to do for a receiver.

i love the features of the new yamaha 2040/3040. but have not heard the greatest things about their amps and them not being able to fully open up the cm9s. ideally i would like the 2040 and emotiva xpa-3...unfortunately i may not be able to afford the amp..at least not right now..i am looking to know hypothetically what the best avr would be to power these babies without an additional amplifier.

*has to be at least 7.2 channel -wouldnt mind 9.2

*new features like 4k upscale, iPhone/android app control.

* a pretty decent room correction software.


I've personally had my eyes on the yamaha rxa 2040 and the new pioneer elite sc-85..but have heard bad things about pioneer with b&w

budget is approximately $1800
tanzillathrilla is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 Old 07-22-2014, 06:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
phantom52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 7,086
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 83
Denon 4520? Give the sales department at the AVS Store a call for pricing.
phantom52 is offline  
post #3 of 19 Old 07-22-2014, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post
Denon 4520? Give the sales department at the AVS Store a call for pricing.
from what I've read between the 4520 and the x4000 they both seem pretty popular, but have also got some bad reviews with mechanical issues and hdmi ports dropping out?
tanzillathrilla is offline  
post #4 of 19 Old 07-23-2014, 07:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
phantom52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 7,086
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanzillathrilla View Post
from what I've read between the 4520 and the x4000 they both seem pretty popular, but have also got some bad reviews with mechanical issues and hdmi ports dropping out?
If buying from the AVS Store and you have problems with any AVR purchased from them they will make it right. Contact jdsmoothie for best price. And what brand at this time has not had problems with HDMI boards or something else within their products? Too much gadgetry going in these things. They all seem to have some problems and it's going to get worse before it gets better. Atmos is going to be the next problem until its around for a while. My advice is the 4520 or go a different route altogether. A lesser AVR with pre-outs and features you want/need and a very good amp. Outlaw made by ATI makes excellent amps and not overpriced like some are. The amp will be there for future upgrades.
phantom52 is offline  
post #5 of 19 Old 07-23-2014, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post
If buying from the AVS Store and you have problems with any AVR purchased from them they will make it right. Contact jdsmoothie for best price. And what brand at this time has not had problems with HDMI boards or something else within their products? Too much gadgetry going in these things. They all seem to have some problems and it's going to get worse before it gets better. Atmos is going to be the next problem until its around for a while. My advice is the 4520 or go a different route altogether. A lesser AVR with pre-outs and features you want/need and a very good amp. Outlaw made by ATI makes excellent amps and not overpriced like some are. The amp will be there for future upgrades.
For arguments sake, what would be the advantage or ddisadvantages between the denon 4520 and the all new pioneer elite sc-85...I only ask because the pioneer does offer a lot of what I want and have heard a lot of good things about there D class amps
tanzillathrilla is offline  
post #6 of 19 Old 07-23-2014, 09:03 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: West Palm Beach, Florida
Posts: 114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanzillathrilla View Post
i am getting ready to buy a pair of cm9's along with 4 b&w m1's for my surrounds. i am pretty set on the speakers but not so much on what to do for a receiver.

i love the features of the new yamaha 2040/3040. but have not heard the greatest things about their amps and them not being able to fully open up the cm9s. ideally i would like the 2040 and emotiva xpa-3...unfortunately i may not be able to afford the amp..at least not right now..i am looking to know hypothetically what the best avr would be to power these babies without an additional amplifier.

*has to be at least 7.2 channel -wouldnt mind 9.2

*new features like 4k upscale, iPhone/android app control.

* a pretty decent room correction software.


I've personally had my eyes on the yamaha rxa 2040 and the new pioneer elite sc-85..but have heard bad things about pioneer with b&w

budget is approximately $1800
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post
Denon 4520? Give the sales department at the AVS Store a call for pricing.
Any of the 3 flagships would do a great job. If uncertain whether the Yamaha has issues with powering a challenging speaker set-up, check out this review on a previous but similar Yamaha http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...er-review.html
The 4520 carries the preferred room correction, however, if only running one sub any of them would be a good choice.
audio.hobby is offline  
post #7 of 19 Old 07-23-2014, 09:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
phantom52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 7,086
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio.hobby View Post
Any of the 3 flagships would do a great job. If uncertain whether the Yamaha has issues with powering a challenging speaker set-up, check out this review on a previous but similar Yamaha http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...er-review.html
The 4520 carries the preferred room correction, however, if only running one sub any of them would be a good choice.
Agreed^^^. I mentioned the 4520 only because of its preferred REQ program. I have a Yamaha A3000 and it works great, but I'm somewhat of a Yamaha fanboy. IMO the REQ(YPAO) is more flexible and its very hard to beat Yamaha for longevity and reliability.
phantom52 is offline  
post #8 of 19 Old 07-23-2014, 09:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
phantom52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 7,086
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanzillathrilla View Post
For arguments sake, what would be the advantage or ddisadvantages between the denon 4520 and the all new pioneer elite sc-85...I only ask because the pioneer does offer a lot of what I want and have heard a lot of good things about there D class amps

Only thing about the Pioneers would be their MCACC. Not the best among REQ programs and also realize that Pioneer just recently sold out their home audio equipment to Onkyo. I would not recommend any Onkyo product at this time due to their higher than normal HDMI board problems. You could also consider an Anthem MRX series, NAD AVR's, and Cambridge. All make very good AVR's.
phantom52 is offline  
post #9 of 19 Old 07-23-2014, 11:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Selden Ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: upstate NY
Posts: 6,814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 245 Post(s)
Liked: 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post
Pioneer just recently sold out their home audio equipment to Onkyo.
Sorry, but that's not correct. They're selling 51% of ownership to Hong Kong-based Baring Private Equity Asia, part of the rest to Onkyo and part they're keeping. So far as I know, the fraction to be owned by Onkyo has not been revealed. Apparently the final decision about that won't be announced until the end of August.

See http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0P51MY20140624
and http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Deal...nvestment-fund

Selden
Selden Ball is offline  
post #10 of 19 Old 07-23-2014, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 0
[QUOTE=Selden Ball;25981770]Sorry, but that's not correct. They're selling 51% of ownership to Hong Kong-based Baring Private Equity Asia, part of the rest to Onkyo and part they're keeping. So far as I know, the fraction to be owned by Onkyo has not been revealed. Apparently the final decision about that won't be announced until the end of August.

See http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0P51MY20140624
and http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Deal...nvestment-fund[/QUOTE
There was just a link posted on here today about pioneers correction software..I believe it's called mccac? Anywho they were touting that as the next big thing for the all new 2014 lineup..If I were to bbuy the Yamaha rxa 2040 or pioneer sc-85 it would be from they're 2014 models...If I go the route of denon it seems I can get a pretty good price on last year's model
tanzillathrilla is offline  
post #11 of 19 Old 07-23-2014, 11:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Selden Ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: upstate NY
Posts: 6,814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 245 Post(s)
Liked: 388
Most of this year's Onkyo and Pioneer models will include support for Dolby's new Atmos object-oriented sound encoding. Denon models from last year won't have that, but they will have Audyssey room correction, which can produce significantly better results than the AccuEQ room correction provided in this year's Onkyo receivers. My understanding is that it's also better than Pioneer's MCACC. For that reason, I'd recommend Denon.

Regardless, all three companies make good equipment. If you haven't already, you should look carefully at the rest of their feature lists to see which best matches what you want.

Selden
Selden Ball is offline  
post #12 of 19 Old 07-23-2014, 12:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
phantom52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 7,086
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Sorry, but that's not correct. They're selling 51% of ownership to Hong Kong-based Baring Private Equity Asia, part of the rest to Onkyo and part they're keeping. So far as I know, the fraction to be owned by Onkyo has not been revealed. Apparently the final decision about that won't be announced until the end of August.

See http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0P51MY20140624
and http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Deal...nvestment-fund
And from the website you posted a quote.

"Pioneer will work with Onkyo in such areas as product design, component procurement, distribution and sales. The products will continue to be sold under the Pioneer brand.

Onkyo will drastically review its cost structure, including in the area of procurement, by taking advantage of Pioneer's technologies. Onkyo logged sales of 36 billion yen in fiscal 2013".


Sounds like Onkyo will be doing a lot more than Pioneer. Don't know the amount Pioneer will have in this "development" part but too much Onkyo for MY liking to recommend Onkyo. So how about those HDMI boards from Pioneer/Onkyo. What am I missing?
phantom52 is offline  
post #13 of 19 Old 07-23-2014, 12:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Selden Ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: upstate NY
Posts: 6,814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 245 Post(s)
Liked: 388
I read several articles about the sale. They all were extremely brief. That's the only one that I saw with any comment about what the production plans might be, so I'm not at all sure how reliable it is. I'm sure they're still working out what to do and we should wait another 6 weeks before jumping to too many conclusions. Apparently Bearing is some kind of a retirement fund management company, so who knows what kind of influence they might have on the results.

Selden
Selden Ball is offline  
post #14 of 19 Old 07-23-2014, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Could we all agree the pioneer has the better/stronger amp
tanzillathrilla is offline  
post #15 of 19 Old 07-24-2014, 08:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
phantom52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 7,086
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanzillathrilla View Post
Could we all agree the pioneer has the better/stronger amp
Not until full test reports are out on both. I would suspect that either of these would spec out very close. Get the one that has the features you want, try it out in your setup and go from there. Only way to make a decision you won't regret.
phantom52 is offline  
post #16 of 19 Old 08-05-2014, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 0
i just picked up the denon 4520ci. i was able to get a heck of a deal on it and between the 9 discrete amps and audyssey multixt32. room correction i figured it was the way to go, especially considering i am a little cash poor now and wont be able to afford the separate amp for awhile..

This thing is like buying a computer for the first time, so much it can do and so much to figure out. My main question for now is bi/amping / biwiring my cm9's directly to the denon.
The denon has 9 separate amps and i will only be running a 7.2 channel system. would i get much benefit by running the remaining the two amps for the front heights into cm9's. 1 set of wires for my midrange and tweeters and another set for the subs? also what kind of effect could this have on running audyssey?
tanzillathrilla is offline  
post #17 of 19 Old 08-05-2014, 07:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Selden Ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: upstate NY
Posts: 6,814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 245 Post(s)
Liked: 388
The conventional wisdom is that the biamp feature provided by receivers really does nothing whatsoever to help the sound.

Both sets of speaker drivers are still sent the full range of the audio signal (over two pairs of wires instead of just one) and both sets of speaker drivers still use the crossover networks designed into the speakers. The audible result is no different from sending the full-range of the audio signal to both sets of speakers over a single pair of wires. Perhaps one could argue that it provides a little additional headroom, but the total output is primarily limited by the AVR's single power supply, which is shared by all of the amps.

Selden
Selden Ball is offline  
post #18 of 19 Old 08-05-2014, 08:01 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MichaelJHuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 18,845
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 197 Post(s)
Liked: 106
The RX-A3000 measured well when Audioholics put in on the bench. Can't imagine it lost too much power over four generations.

2 Dynamic PWR 205 wpc 8-ohms 1%
2 Dynamic PWR 330 wpc 4-ohms 1%

http://www.audioholics.com/av-receiv...surements-cont

"But this one goes up to 11"
MichaelJHuman is offline  
post #19 of 19 Old 08-05-2014, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
The conventional wisdom is that the biamp feature provided by receivers really does nothing whatsoever to help the sound.

Both sets of speaker drivers are still sent the full range of the audio signal (over two pairs of wires instead of just one) and both sets of speaker drivers still use the crossover networks designed into the speakers. The audible result is no different from sending the full-range of the audio signal to both sets of speakers over a single pair of wires. Perhaps one could argue that it provides a little additional headroom, but the total output is primarily limited by the AVR's single power supply, which is shared by all of the amps.
i will leave it be then. So far the denon appears to have ample power. i have not however hooked up the cm9's up to her yet. ( supposed to pick them up today or tomorrow ). There was noticeable difference as soon as i hooked up the new denon to my polk tsi400 compared to my older onkyo cheapo rt 680...hope to really hear it all sing with the cm9s and dual subs
tanzillathrilla is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off