Is this enough of a step up in power to make it worthwhile? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 63 Old 07-23-2014, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Is this enough of a step up in power to make it worthwhile?

I have been looking to purchase an external amplifier to use with my Yamaha RX–A2030 receiver. I'm not convinced I will get an audible difference so I figure I will purchase something used. This way if I don't find much benefit or for doesn't last too long I'm not out that much money. And if I like the sound I am not out much money if I decide to purchase something bigger and badder.

My Yamaha is rated to put out 140 W per channel with only two channels driven. I've not found any specs that indicate the output with 5, 7 or 9 channels driven. On Craigslist I found it ad for an Adcom GFA-6000 amplifier for only $200. Its output is rated 100 watts/channel into three channels (left, center, right) and 60 watts/channel into two rear speakers. But those numbers are rated with all five channels being driven.

Do you think those amp numbers will make a difference versus what I have right now or should I look for something with more oomph?

If you look at my other thread I'm still considering the Adcom GFA-7607 which puts out 125 Watts per channel into seven channels
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post #2 of 63 Old 07-23-2014, 10:03 AM
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The amp will, in theory, play a little louder than your Yamaha. Probably the biggest benefit is it will take some of the load off the Yamaha, keeping it cooler and less likely to overheat. Plus, if you want to add the last 2 channels, the amp will allow you to do that. For $200, assuming it works, it's not a bad investment.
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post #3 of 63 Old 07-23-2014, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orcrone View Post
I have been looking to purchase an external amplifier to use with my Yamaha RX–A2030 receiver. I'm not convinced I will get an audible difference so I figure I will purchase something used. This way if I don't find much benefit or for doesn't last too long I'm not out that much money. And if I like the sound I am not out much money if I decide to purchase something bigger and badder.

My Yamaha is rated to put out 140 W per channel with only two channels driven. I've not found any specs that indicate the output with 5, 7 or 9 channels driven. On Craigslist I found it ad for an Adcom GFA-6000 amplifier for only $200. Its output is rated 100 watts/channel into three channels (left, center, right) and 60 watts/channel into two rear speakers. But those numbers are rated with all five channels being driven.

Do you think those amp numbers will make a difference versus what I have right now or should I look for something with more oomph?

If you look at my other thread I'm still considering the Adcom GFA-7607 which puts out 125 Watts per channel into seven channels
I think I have pointed out some of this stuff before

Some people will try to say the Yamaha produces way less than 140 watts per channel based on some past benchtests. But they base that on all channels driven tests using sine waves. That's a torture test that has nothing to do with the real world.

As I had mentioned before, my Yamaha Z7 which has similar performance to the higher end Yamaha units does not run out of power. I would not expect the near top of the line 2030 to run out of power either (using common sense analysis of chassis size and weight and power output, it's nearly identical to the 3030.)

If you have the money and want an external amp, go for it. But I would look for something with excellent 4 ohm performance as AVRs sometimes lack in that area. I thought I mentioned Outlaw to you before, I apologize if I have you confused with someone else.

As for Adcom, they seemed to be non existent for some time. Personally, I would go with Outlaw who seems respectable rather that going with Adcom which, while something of a name brand seems to be a question mark of sorts now.

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post #4 of 63 Old 07-23-2014, 03:13 PM
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These forums are basically "everything sounds the same"

On the back of your amp it states 490W. 490 / 9 = 54.
Max 54W per channel

The the back of the ATI 1807 it states 1.8kW power consumption
1800 / 7 = 257W

It's rated at 180W per channel. Just a heads up whenever an AVR inflates power output specs ;-)

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post #5 of 63 Old 07-23-2014, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post
I think I have pointed out some of this stuff before

Some people will try to say the Yamaha produces way less than 140 watts per channel based on some past benchtests. But they base that on all channels driven tests using sine waves. That's a torture test that has nothing to do with the real world.

As I had mentioned before, my Yamaha Z7 which has similar performance to the higher end Yamaha units does not run out of power. I would not expect the near top of the line 2030 to run out of power either (using common sense analysis of chassis size and weight and power output, it's nearly identical to the 3030.)

If you have the money and want an external amp, go for it. But I would look for something with excellent 4 ohm performance as AVRs sometimes lack in that area. I thought I mentioned Outlaw to you before, I apologize if I have you confused with someone else.

As for Adcom, they seemed to be non existent for some time. Personally, I would go with Outlaw who seems respectable rather that going with Adcom which, while something of a name brand seems to be a question mark of sorts now.



haha

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...-labs-measures

47W for flagship amp???? 0.1% THD! And only into 8ohm? What about into 4? 3? Does that double? Or drop? Does THD increase too?

That's why AVR are a waste of money! I'd NEVER buy a AVR like that, even a budget 100W x 7 amp will utterly trounce the Z7.

To OP, get a power amp. Not unless you want to pay £2500 for a AVR with a 47W per channel amp hahaha

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post #6 of 63 Old 07-23-2014, 03:49 PM
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http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7075.html

$450 and outclasses the flagship Yamaha AVR and good 4ohm output too, still rated to same output spec. Why on earth someone would buy a £2000 AVR- it boggles the mind.

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post #7 of 63 Old 07-23-2014, 03:49 PM
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I always seem to have this debate with you Fatbottom

In real world conditions, as music and movie signals don't consist of 7 channels of correlated sine waves the expectation is that you won't run into conditions where you per channel output will drop like you suggest. That's why THX had specific tests and THX certified AVRs with less than 1000 VA transformers. The receivers were similarly rated to current Yamaha receivers as memory serves and were able to meet the THX requirements as they used some sort of tests which simulated real world signals.

I am guessing that the Yamaha transformer is something like 800 VA. I figured it out once from a service manual for similarly priced Yamaha. The Outlaw 7125 has double that. Which is great, and has better 4 ohm performance I would guess which is great. And only costs $1000 which is great. BUT...it's not at all clear such a thing is needed in a typical install.

If someone wants an amp with over 100 watts channel with all channels driven that's great too. But it's a moot point if an AVR can deliver all the power you need. In my experience they CAN.

As mentioned before, my Z7 doesn't run out of power.

As for why to buy the higher end AVRs, I would have thought that was obvious. Features and more power. It should be understand the power difference between the top of the line Yamaha and the bottom of the line may be a factor of two which is a difference of 3 dB more SPL. The same is true of the Yamaha vs your very powerful external amps. 200 watts per channel is 3 dB louder than 100. Maybe better than that due to impedance capability, but I don't expect much better.

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post #8 of 63 Old 07-23-2014, 03:54 PM
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As was said, rarely if ever are all channels driven to max at one, and then only for brief peaks. Sine-wave stress testing on a bench is a misleading as an indicator of actual real-world performance. But, we each have our own religion.


orcrone, what is missing is what speakers you have and how far away you sit from them. It is quite likely you are not using the full output of your AVR, let alone benefit from an external amp. Check out one of the online SPL calculators and use an SPL to see how loudly you really listen (or estimate, but I have found few people can tell how loud things really are, including myself). One is at myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

As for power, 1 dB is a barely-perceptible change in level and takes about 1.25x the power. Chances are if someone bumped the level up or down a dB in the middle of a song or movie you would not notice. 3 dB is a noticeable step, about what most people do to raise or lower the volume "just a little bit". That is a 2x change in power. To double the volume is 10 dB, and 10x the power. So if you really do need more power, chances are you need to step up to an amp that puts out several hundred watts. My guess is you should spend the money on room treatment, music and movies, or another worthwhile cause. My kid's college fund is running low, for that matter.

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post #9 of 63 Old 07-23-2014, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
I am guessing that the Yamaha transformer is something like 800 VA
800VA for 7 channels? Even my old poweramps had 400VA for just two channels those were 60W x 2.

I'll make do with 3200VA. For just three channels heheheh.

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post #10 of 63 Old 07-23-2014, 04:07 PM
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What is the sensitivity of the speakers you are using? Are you running them full range? That's the question we have to know to help you come up with a valid answer.

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post #11 of 63 Old 07-23-2014, 04:14 PM
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Just remember that double the watts only gets you 3dB more......you need ~10x the power to play 2x as loud.

It really depends on how loud you want to play. I ran my system to the max yesterday to see what it could do. Right now my system is in a small room(18ftx13ft). My Yamaha AVR is rated to 90w 2ch driven, I only have 2 channels, 88dB efficiency. I was able to hit reference levels 85dB average, 105dB peaks. However, it did so with some slight distortion during those peaks. Reference level is LOUD and I don't think I'm going to do that again. My system happily plays at -10dB without any detectible distortion, which is still pretty damn loud. I usually listen to movies at -10 to -18dB. A dedicated power amp will definitely help me play at reference level volumes with greater fidelity, but I don't listen at those levels. I find it humorous that some people buy these huge expensive amps and don't even use 1/100th of their output.

Using this calculator is a great way to see how much power you need. http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

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post #12 of 63 Old 07-23-2014, 04:21 PM
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^^^ Wish I'd said that...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #13 of 63 Old 07-23-2014, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
^^^ Wish I'd said that...
That's pretty funny. I never read your post until now, yet we both basically said the same exact thing. Awesome.

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post #14 of 63 Old 07-23-2014, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
haha

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...-labs-measures

47W for flagship amp???? 0.1% THD! And only into 8ohm? What about into 4? 3? Does that double? Or drop? Does THD increase too?

a
a person who understands how amps are rated would recognize the questions are essentially nonsense. It's power at a specified THD. You can get as little (depending on noise floor) or as much harmonic distortion as you likely would ever want from any amp. Just keep turning up. Power goes up, distortion goes up. And when distortion hits one percent, it might be audible with the right kind of test signals. Unlikely with real content, but there is always, I suppose a chance that some specific content will just happen to excite a particular amp's distortion profile in a way to make it audible for a second there at one percent. assuming it isn't masked by speaker distortion likely an order of magnitude or more higher . . . .

at 0.1 percent distortion, the distortion products are, by definition, 60 dB below the undistorted signal (so roughly 1/64 as loud as the non distortion). At one percent, distortion is at 1/16 the subjective loudness of the nondistorted signal, or minus 40 dB.

masking affects what you hear. If you stand ten feet from a jet engine as it is revving up and yell at the top of your lungs, I won't hear you from ten feet away. Masking. The louder thing swamps the less loud thing. One of the relatively few things in sound that is reasonably intuitive/common sense.
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post #15 of 63 Old 07-23-2014, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
haha

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...-labs-measures

47W for flagship amp???? 0.1% THD! And only into 8ohm? What about into 4? 3? Does that double? Or drop? Does THD increase too?

a person who understands how amps are rated would recognize the questions are essentially nonsense. It's power at a specified THD. You can get as little (depending on noise floor) or as much harmonic distortion as you likely would ever want from any amp. Just keep turning up. Power goes up, distortion goes up. And when distortion hits one percent, it might be audible with the right kind of test signals. Unlikely with real content, but there is always, I suppose, a chance that some specific content will just happen to excite a particular amp's distortion profile in a way to make it audible for a second there at one percent. Assuming it isn't covered up by speaker distortion likely an order of magnitude or more higher . . . .

at 0.1 percent distortion, the distortion products are, by definition, 60 dB below the undistorted signal (so roughly 1/64 as loud, subjectively, as the non distortion). At one percent, distortion is at 1/16 the subjective loudness of the nondistorted signal, or minus 40 dB.

masking affects what you hear. If you stand ten feet from a jet engine as it is revving up and yell at the top of your lungs, I won't hear you from ten feet away. Masking. The louder thing swamps the less loud thing. One of the relatively few things in sound that is reasonably intuitive/common sense.
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post #16 of 63 Old 07-23-2014, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orcrone View Post
I have been looking to purchase an external amplifier to use with my Yamaha RX–A2030 receiver. I'm not convinced I will get an audible difference so I figure I will purchase something used. This way if I don't find much benefit or for doesn't last too long I'm not out that much money. And if I like the sound I am not out much money if I decide to purchase something bigger and badder.

My Yamaha is rated to put out 140 W per channel with only two channels driven. I've not found any specs that indicate the output with 5, 7 or 9 channels driven. On Craigslist I found it ad for an Adcom GFA-6000 amplifier for only $200. Its output is rated 100 watts/channel into three channels (left, center, right) and 60 watts/channel into two rear speakers. But those numbers are rated with all five channels being driven.

Do you think those amp numbers will make a difference versus what I have right now or should I look for something with more oomph?

If you look at my other thread I'm still considering the Adcom GFA-7607 which puts out 125 Watts per channel into seven channels
ACD (All Channels Driven) testing is not at all representative of the actual use of amplifiers to amplify audio signals related to music and drama.

AVS members are hardly alone in criticizing ACD testing. For example this well-respected group (Audioholics) uses the same facts to come to the same basic conclusion that ACD testing puts an unrealistic burden on power amplifiers:

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amp...amplifier-test

"APC AV: I don't agree with testing All Channels Driven - it is not a realistic measure of anything useful. There is no standard means of testing with no valid data to support its veracity. I've never seen any data that says an ACD test is similar to the power consumed by a kick drum or T-Rex. I feel it is important that an amp be capable of driving all the channels at 1/3 or 1/X power concurrently and continuously without overheating or blowing up.

Common sense requires that an amplifier be electrically capable of supplying enough power to satisfy musical and theatrical dynamics without clipping. Therefore, a peak rating with a foundation in reality is also important, I want to know the amp is capable of supplying continuous and peak power to the speakers when needed."

Audio is supposed to be a fun hobby and if you define fun as having a power amplifier that functions well as a spot welder or is suitable for driving an industrial shaker table for destructive testing of military vehicles, then ACD ratings are right down your alley, and they should be your guide for buying.

If by some odd coincidence gear that does an excellent job of playing music cleanly is more consistent with your needs and you actually are so money conscious that you cash your income tax refund checks, then ACD power ratings should be way down your list of priorities.
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post #17 of 63 Old 07-23-2014, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Didn't mean to set off a debate. My front three speakers are Paradigm Studio 100s for the left and right channels and a Paradigm CC–690 for the center channel. The sensitivities are 89 to 90 DB in an anechoic chamber and they're rated at an 8 ohm impedance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post
The Outlaw 7125 has double that. Which is great, and has better 4 ohm performance I would guess which is great. And only costs $1000 which is great. BUT...it's not at all clear such a thing is needed in a typical install.
I agree. That's why I was looking at an inexpensive used amplifier. Whether or not I like it I am not out much money. If it makes a difference I can then invest in a better amplifier and if it doesn't improve the experience I can just take it out of the system and sell it, or give it away.

I just got done watching a movie, Frozen. It sounded pretty good through the Yamaha. I'll have to watch movies a bit more demanding.
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post #18 of 63 Old 07-23-2014, 05:36 PM
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IMO, if you are not going to DOUBLE the Yamaha power, I can't make myself see any benefits to the external amp. I realize some people are saying that only takes 100 watts but as you can see I am not the only person who doesn't put a lot of weight on that ACD stuff. It seems to be of some benefit in some cases showing a serious collapse of power such as the Sony that did under 20 watts, which was one of the worst I had seen - maybe budget Sony receivers deserve some of the rep they have

I suggest again reading this review of a comparably powered receiver - http://www.audioholics.com/av-receiv...surements-cont

"The Yamaha RX-A3000 handedly exceeded its 140wpc power rating continuously with two channels driven and stomped out an impressive 236wpc both channels driven into 4 ohms; and that’s a full power bandwidth measurement (20Hz to 20kHz at 0.1% THD + N). It proved to be every bit as powerful as their more expensive RX-Z7 mode. You can see the protection circuit kick on during our ACD tests, purposely limiting power to 65wpc. In short time, there is no doubt in my mind forum lurkers seeing this will pop up on our site or AVS Forum bashing Yamaha, not realizing the design purpose of power limiting a multi channel amplifier in a compact chassis, or the reality that real world program material will never trip this limiter circuitry. Thus we conducted dynamic burst power measurements simulating real world program content. Interestingly enough the RX-A3000 delivered similar dynamic power output ACD into 8 ohm loads and slightly more power two channels driven into 4 ohm loads than the Emotiva UPA-7 dedicated multi-channel power amplifier that is designed to deliver rated power continuously into all channels as can be seen in the comparison table below."

Note the statement that the protection circuits kicked in, limiting the power output in the 7 ACD test. And how Gene says that will not happen with real world material. He's an engineer, I put some credence in what he's saying. Note how it measured similar to the Emotiva UPA-7.

I am sure you have seen all the opinions by now so I will leave it at that

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post #19 of 63 Old 07-23-2014, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks to all for chiming in. For now I will probably just stick with what I have. I spent a chunk of change on the Paradigm speakers, the Yamaha receiver and some other incidentals. When you're looking at saving 40% by purchasing a $5000 amplifier used it makes sense to look at used equipment. Since the amplifiers I'm considering run from under $1000 to under $2000, giving up a warranty to save a few hundred dollars doesn't make much sense to me. I'll forget about a new amplifier for a few days and just enjoy my system. I believe Outlaw's sale is until the end of the month so I will probably start thinking about it again early next week.

Thanks again for all the useful insights.

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post #20 of 63 Old 07-23-2014, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post
a person who understands how amps are rated would recognize the questions are essentially nonsense. It's power at a specified THD. You can get as little (depending on noise floor) or as much harmonic distortion as you likely would ever want from any amp. Just keep turning up. Power goes up, distortion goes up. And when distortion hits one percent, it might be audible with the right kind of test signals. Unlikely with real content, but there is always, I suppose, a chance that some specific content will just happen to excite a particular amp's distortion profile in a way to make it audible for a second there at one percent. Assuming it isn't covered up by speaker distortion likely an order of magnitude or more higher . . . .

at 0.1 percent distortion, the distortion products are, by definition, 60 dB below the undistorted signal (so roughly 1/64 as loud, subjectively, as the non distortion). At one percent, distortion is at 1/16 the subjective loudness of the nondistorted signal, or minus 40 dB.

masking affects what you hear. If you stand ten feet from a jet engine as it is revving up and yell at the top of your lungs, I won't hear you from ten feet away. Masking. The louder thing swamps the less loud thing. One of the relatively few things in sound that is reasonably intuitive/common sense.
Sorry I couldn't your excusing a £2000 AV amp having paltry 45W per channel , I couldn't hear you over my 200W into 8ohm, 0.05% THD, all drivens driven, full range sweep. So whatever volume level THD is nil, compared to £2000 AV amp which'll have distortion.

I thought the Yamaha A1 distorted and sounded like crap, but hey.

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post #21 of 63 Old 07-24-2014, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
Sorry I couldn't your excusing a £2000 AV amp having paltry 45W per channel , I couldn't hear you over my 200W into 8ohm, 0.05% THD, all drivens driven, full range sweep. So whatever volume level THD is nil, compared to £2000 AV amp which'll have distortion.

I thought the Yamaha A1 distorted and sounded like crap, but hey.
*face plam*.....it's not possible for a linear amp to put out more than 116 watts per channel for 7 channels driven unless you short the amp fuse or regulate the line voltage.

Educate yourself.
http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amp...amplifier-test

Main System: SVS Ultra Towers - 15" custom ported subwoofer - SVS PB-1000 - Yamaha RX-A740 Aventage. 125dB @30hz, 16hz @ -3dB
Computer System: Carnagie Acoustics CSB-1 - 12' Onkyo sealed subwoofer - Pioneer VSX-92 THX
Other speakers owned or auditioned: Aperion T6 - Ascend CBM-170 - Energy RC-10 - Wharfdale 10.1 - Arx A1b

Last edited by SmithandWesson; 07-24-2014 at 01:55 AM.
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post #22 of 63 Old 07-24-2014, 02:30 AM
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I'm in the UK, 240v..so US lower max kW isn't a concern

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

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post #23 of 63 Old 07-24-2014, 02:42 AM
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oh and you do have multiple channels playing at the same time haha. Defending poor amp designs? LOL maybe you listen to mono? You buy a 11 channel AVR and set it to center only. haha

Music concerts have multiple speakers active. In fact movies do, panning, sweeping across, front three active.

You just seek confirmation bias, an agenda that favours that you're unable to go pre-power, even when that flagship amp sound bad and distorts like crazy..meanwhile I'm listening on a nice system capable of reference, all channels driven, sound fab, no distortion, playing cleaning.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

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post #24 of 63 Old 07-24-2014, 04:36 AM
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oh and you do have multiple channels playing at the same time haha.
Straw man argument. Of course we have multiple channels playing music at the same time.

But we don't have ALL channels playing pure sine waves at full power at the same time.

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Defending poor amp designs?
Poor amplifier designs according to who? Don't the laws of physics have precidence in this discussion?

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LOL maybe you listen to mono? You buy a 11 channel AVR and set it to center only. haha
Please don't insult our intelligence.

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Music concerts have multiple speakers active. In fact movies do, panning, sweeping across, front three active.
Of course we have multiple channels playing music at drama at differing levels at the same time.

But we don't have ALL channels playing pure sine waves at full power at the same time.

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You just seek confirmation bias, an agenda that favours that you're unable to go pre-power, even when that flagship amp sound bad and distorts like crazy..
I've got a store room of preamps and power amps. Where is your reliable evidence that the AVR actually sounds bad and distorts like crazy? Aren't the above claims just agenda-driven baseless speculations?

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meanwhile I'm listening on a nice system capable of reference, all channels driven, sound fab, no distortion, playing cleaning.
So am I. Prove me wrong!
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post #25 of 63 Old 07-24-2014, 04:44 AM
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oh and you do have multiple channels playing at the same time haha. Defending poor amp designs? LOL maybe you listen to mono? You buy a 11 channel AVR and set it to center only. haha

Music concerts have multiple speakers active. In fact movies do, panning, sweeping across, front three active.

You just seek confirmation bias, an agenda that favours that you're unable to go pre-power, even when that flagship amp sound bad and distorts like crazy..meanwhile I'm listening on a nice system capable of reference, all channels driven, sound fab, no distortion, playing cleaning.
so do i and i didn't invest in snake oil or over priced esoteric gear and yes there is an avr as the "brains" of the operation. it would absolutly blow your mind to know what i am running and how much (little ) i've invested. perhaps one day you will realize that you don't need overpriced esoteric gear to achieve sonic happiness....unless of course you measure your self worth and/or are compensating for some other "short comings" in your life with the gear you have chosen, and therefor belittle others for their choice of so called "less worthy" gear.

but not to fret, your biases are as plain to everyone as the nose is on your face.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
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post #26 of 63 Old 07-24-2014, 04:48 AM
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I can't help but wonder what Fatbottom's Bose cube speakers sound like at reference level.
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post #27 of 63 Old 07-24-2014, 04:50 AM - Thread Starter
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I can't help but wonder what Fatbottom's Bose cube speakers sound like at reference level.
Hitting close to home. That's what my wife wanted me to purchase. WAF does not go that far!!!
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post #28 of 63 Old 07-24-2014, 05:02 AM
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Hitting close to home. That's what my wife wanted me to purchase. WAF does not go that far!!!
lol....many many many moons ago my wife and i sat through a bose demo at a bose store. i am so glad i educated my self before purchasing anything.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
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post #29 of 63 Old 07-24-2014, 05:05 AM
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I can't help but wonder what Fatbottom's Bose cube speakers sound like at reference level.
Need more power. Krell 900E are outclassed by the Bose.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

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post #30 of 63 Old 07-24-2014, 05:19 AM
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so do i and i didn't invest in snake oil or over priced esoteric gear and yes there is an avr as the "brains" of the operation. it would absolutly blow your mind to know what i am running and how much (little ) i've invested. perhaps one day you will realize that you don't need overpriced esoteric gear to achieve sonic happiness....unless of course you measure your self worth and/or are compensating for some other "short comings" in your life with the gear you have chosen, and therefor belittle others for their choice of so called "less worthy" gear.

but not to fret, your biases are as plain to everyone as the nose is on your face.
You remind be of a boy racer, sitting in his clapped out Ford Escot 1.1 with a huge exhaust, sitting next to a real sports car, looking at it in envy, but not showing that. Instead pretend your Ford is every bit as good, if not better than the real sportscar. You placed a "10L turbo extreme supercharged injection max power mega car" sticker and think you can fool people haha.

I've got AVR's. Ok for the money but would I use them in the main system? Nah not on your life. And certainly wouldn't pay more than £800/£1000 for one, I put that money into dedicated power and re-use amplifiers whenever I choose.

Rather than have crummy 42W amp stages that a £2000 Yamaha. Hell even a Rotel RB-976 outpeforms that POS, and that was the most affordable 6 channel power amplifier available when I was going into audio. That would be a upgrade over the Yamaha Z7. Bet it drives 4ohm speakers better than the Yamaha lol

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

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