The "Official" 2014 Denon Atmos+XT32 Model Thread (X4100/X5200/X7200) - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 3815 Old 07-29-2014, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

with respect to the other point, that seems like a huge waste of resources to use a very recent model, nowhere-near-obsolete 4520CI as a 4-5 ch amp. You could easily sell it for over $1k used and then get something like an Emotiva XPA-3 and pocket a nice profit, end up with MORE actual power with a tool that was designed for the job.
I thought about that. But I had a hard time trying to sell the 4308CI for price I wanted before getting the 4520CI. I'll stick to my original plans. Thanks anyways.
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post #62 of 3815 Old 07-29-2014, 06:25 PM
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I have to agree with batpig on this, using a receiver as a power amp only seems really wasteful. Especially when you consider how much heat these Denon receivers generate even when idle. Now I don't have experience with a 4520, but I have a 4810 and a x4000, and both put out a lot of heat. Those processors they have and the power supply are always generating heat, regardless of what's going on. Plus you'll have to manage the IR on both components, as they'll respond to the same signals, but you'll have to turn on the 4520 somehow, unless you really need the extra warmth and leave it on all the time.

I relegated my 4810 to a secondary system this summer, and that seems kind of wasteful for such a good receiver, but it's old enough I doubt I can get enough out of it to replace it with a receiver that still has enough HDMI inputs and other features on it that I still use. A 4520 on the other hand still has good life in it. And a good external power amp, such as the aforementioned XPA-3, will probably outperform the amps in the 4520 in most ways. The 4520 is rated at only 150w and that's just with 2 channels driven, with more channels being used that drops, vs. the XPA-3 at 200w.
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post #63 of 3815 Old 07-29-2014, 06:33 PM
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Figarou, keep in mind the 4308 couldn't pass 3D, the 4520 HDMI support is pretty much compatible with everything currently on the market as of right now. Plus it's got higher quality components compared to the rest of the Denon receivers currently on the market. As of this moment it's still pretty much the flagship. The 4308 was dated when the 4520 came out, the 4520 is still an appealing receiver to anyone that doesn't want or care about Atmos. Now granted once the 7200 is on the market the picture changes a bit, but the 4520 should still be worth a reasonable amount on the used market.
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post #64 of 3815 Old 07-29-2014, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Mickunas View Post
I have to agree with batpig on this, using a receiver as a power amp only seems really wasteful. Especially when you consider how much heat these Denon receivers generate even when idle. Now I don't have experience with a 4520, but I have a 4810 and a x4000, and both put out a lot of heat. Those processors they have and the power supply are always generating heat, regardless of what's going on. Plus you'll have to manage the IR on both components, as they'll respond to the same signals, but you'll have to turn on the 4520 somehow, unless you really need the extra warmth and leave it on all the time.

I relegated my 4810 to a secondary system this summer, and that seems kind of wasteful for such a good receiver, but it's old enough I doubt I can get enough out of it to replace it with a receiver that still has enough HDMI inputs and other features on it that I still use. A 4520 on the other hand still has good life in it. And a good external power amp, such as the aforementioned XPA-3, will probably outperform the amps in the 4520 in most ways. The 4520 is rated at only 150w and that's just with 2 channels driven, with more channels being used that drops, vs. the XPA-3 at 200w.
Heat? By placing a 200mm Cooler Master fan on top, it never gets hot.

I may consider getting an Emotiva later on in 2015.
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post #65 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Figarou View Post
Heat? By placing a 200mm Cooler Master fan on top, it never gets hot.

I may consider getting an Emotiva later on in 2015.
In an active cooling scenario, what do you think happens to the heat produced by the AVR?..
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post #66 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 12:33 AM
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I don't think the X9200 will happen, though it would be a nice surprise.
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post #67 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 04:39 AM
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I have a question. I currently have a sherwood r972 with pre outs to an emotiva upa5. I love the sound of this, and it can get way louder than I'm comfortable with in an apartment. The problem with the r972 is that it is putting out with ever greater frequency a pink gray noise, or makes everything on the screen look like they are made out of 1/2" by 1/2" pixels. I'm assuming it's an hdmi issue, but not sure, and can't find any firmware updates for it. It is getting really old having to constantly restart it to get rid of the noise, and almost to the point of unbearable. I don't know if I'm willing to endure this until Sept. or Oct for the atmos boxes. I have not run trinnov, and won't since I'm going to trash it, and don't want to miss it. I want xt32, and lfc in my next box which lands me squarely on denon. The question is would the x4000 with the upa 5 be a lateral move or an upgrade in sound quality. Likewise with the 4520, and would the 4520 amps be better than the upa 5 considering the upa 5 would most likely get me a call from the landlord or a visit from the police if I ran it anywhere near the volume it's capable of. I like the sound of the emotiva better than the sherwood amps. Also is the sound quality of the 4520 with the higher resolution dacs better than the x4000, and would it be better than the sherwood? I've never owned a denon, but am leaning in that direction with a slight inclination towards the anthem mrx 510, but need a way to tame bass, and unsure if anthem arc can do that like aydyssey lfc can.

Thanks in advance for any light anyone might be able to shed on this.

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post #68 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Kisakuku View Post
In an active cooling scenario, what do you think happens to the heat produced by the AVR?..
It fills the room to where it's toasty warm.

If you add the HDTV and the PS3, the room heats up quicker. Even the human body can produce heat. Ever been in a room filled with 100s of active people? (Like a convention. )


Once I get the X7200W, I'll hang on to the 4520CI. I may start a 2nd home theater set up.
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post #69 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 07:30 AM
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It fills the room to where it's toasty warm.
Exactly, so putting a fan on the AVR doesn't in any way make your room cooler, just the AVR itself.
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post #70 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Kisakuku View Post
Exactly, so putting a fan on the AVR doesn't in any way make your room cooler, just the AVR itself.
Did you not notice the ? I think he knew that he was making a silly statement.
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post #71 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figarou View Post
Heat? By placing a 200mm Cooler Master fan on top, it never gets hot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Figarou View Post
It fills the room to where it's toasty warm.

If you add the HDTV and the PS3, the room heats up quicker. Even the human body can produce heat. Ever been in a room filled with 100s of active people? (Like a convention. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Mickunas View Post
Did you not notice the ? I think he knew that he was making a silly statement.

I guess I'll disregard all three of those statements then.
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post #72 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Keith Mickunas View Post
Did you not notice the ? I think he knew that he was making a silly statement.

Nope.

Happy that the room is toasty warm during the winter months. Happy that the receiver is being cooled down. And happy about conventions.

I would need a smiley with a jester hat if I wanted to make silly comments.
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post #73 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 09:26 AM
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Rats! I knew there was no mention of HD radio in the European X5200W manual but assumed that this was not necessarily reflective of the U.S. model. Is it confirmed that the U.S. X5200W will not feature HD radio then? And I assume there is no info one way or the other regarding the X7200W yet?
Ok, so got clarification from D&M ... the USA X5200W and X7200W will both include HD Radio.
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post #74 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Figarou View Post
Is the X9200W going to be an actual product? I noticed it mentioned in another thread. If not, I plan on getting the X7200W.

I currently have the 4520CI. I'd like to use it to power the extra speakers needed for a 7.2.4 setup. Is it possible to have the 4520CI run lets say, 5 speakers and the X7200W 6.2? Or shall I have the 4520CI power 2 speakers while the X7200W run the rest. I really don't want to sell the 4520CI when it provides the same amplification as the X7200W.

You seem to have an itchy finger for the latest and greatest.


I would hang on to the 4520 for another year and see what's available next year. I suspect next years models will be a decided improvement over this years. HDCP 2.2, more flexible atmos setups. Plus, the selection of atmos blu-rays will likely be pretty slim for the next year. Otherwise, in a year you'll be looking to use your 7200 as an amp for a new 2015 receiver.
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post #75 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post
You seem to have an itchy finger for the latest and greatest.


I would hang on to the 4520 for another year and see what's available next year. I suspect next years models will be a decided improvement over this years. HDCP 2.2, more flexible atmos setups. Plus, the selection of atmos blu-rays will likely be pretty slim for the next year. Otherwise, in a year you'll be looking to use your 7200 as an amp for a new 2015 receiver.

Will the X7200W be replaced in 2015? I thought the flagship models was replaced every 2 years or more.
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post #76 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 09:52 AM
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Correct. X7200W wouldn't be expected to be replaced until 2016.

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post #77 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 10:06 AM
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Ok, so got clarification from D&M ... the USA X5200W and X7200W will both include HD Radio.
That's great news and exactly what I had been assuming all along.

I hope that you have learned your lesson and will no longer question the accuracy of the original source (I forget his name, but I think it was a JD-something).
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post #78 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cranster View Post
I have a question. I currently have a sherwood r972 with pre outs to an emotiva upa5. I love the sound of this, and it can get way louder than I'm comfortable with in an apartment. The problem with the r972 is that it is putting out with ever greater frequency a pink gray noise, or makes everything on the screen look like they are made out of 1/2" by 1/2" pixels. I'm assuming it's an hdmi issue, but not sure, and can't find any firmware updates for it. It is getting really old having to constantly restart it to get rid of the noise, and almost to the point of unbearable. I don't know if I'm willing to endure this until Sept. or Oct for the atmos boxes. I have not run trinnov, and won't since I'm going to trash it, and don't want to miss it. I want xt32, and lfc in my next box which lands me squarely on denon. The question is would the x4000 with the upa 5 be a lateral move or an upgrade in sound quality. Likewise with the 4520, and would the 4520 amps be better than the upa 5 considering the upa 5 would most likely get me a call from the landlord or a visit from the police if I ran it anywhere near the volume it's capable of. I like the sound of the emotiva better than the sherwood amps. Also is the sound quality of the 4520 with the higher resolution dacs better than the x4000, and would it be better than the sherwood? I've never owned a denon, but am leaning in that direction with a slight inclination towards the anthem mrx 510, but need a way to tame bass, and unsure if anthem arc can do that like aydyssey lfc can.

Thanks in advance for any light anyone might be able to shed on this.
Honestly, although you don't mention what speakers you have, your description makes it sound like you don't use very much power at all. The UPA-5 is not a particularly powerful amp, and any decent AVR should be enough for your situation considering you can't crank it. I would just get the X4000 and be done with it, or if you want to play with Atmos get the X4100W. I doubt you need the extra amplification of the 4520, although if you can afford it and get a good deal (maybe you can buy Figarou's used and close that loop too! ) it will certainly sound great.

I can't comment as to relative sound quality of the Sherwood vs. the Denons, but given that you aren't even using the Dirac EQ then just getting a working receiver with XT32 should improve fidelity.

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post #79 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 01:07 PM
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Please help!


I can't decide if I should get the X5200W once available, or wait out for the X7200W.


usage is 85%+ on movies only, does "(32-bit DAC's, D.D.S.C - HD32 processing, AL32 instead of AL24, etc)" do anything for Blu-ray over HDMI?? or is it only for super audio cds? and other digital / analog converting formats?


for Blu-ray over hdmi only what advantages does the X7200W have over the X5200W?




thanks,
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post #80 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 01:35 PM
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The expectation is the sound quality would be better with the flagship X7200W.

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post #81 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Honestly, although you don't mention what speakers you have, your description makes it sound like you don't use very much power at all. The UPA-5 is not a particularly powerful amp, and any decent AVR should be enough for your situation considering you can't crank it. I would just get the X4000 and be done with it, or if you want to play with Atmos get the X4100W. I doubt you need the extra amplification of the 4520, although if you can afford it and get a good deal (maybe you can buy Figarou's used and close that loop too! ) it will certainly sound great.

I can't comment as to relative sound quality of the Sherwood vs. the Denons, but given that you aren't even using the Dirac EQ then just getting a working receiver with XT32 should improve fidelity.

The output from the emotiva might not sound like much but I'm amazed at how loud it gets. It goes way beyond what I'm comfortable with neighbors in adjoining spaces.
My lcr are ascend sierra 2's, and swan diva 6.1 for surround, and 2 lynnfield vr30's in the back. I have a Rhythmik lv12r, but It's unplugged for now because it's too much. Any volume that the bass becomes noticable is vibrating the floor, and that's with a subdude so it's out of the equation for now. The sherwood uses trinnov, not dirac, not that it matters because they don't make it anymore.
For my space the x4000 is I'm sure going to be more than sufficient. As much as I'd like to try atmos with my current living situation, I'm thinking a good set of headphones and an amp, and dac might be much more apartment friendly like the oppo pm-1.
Thanks for responding.

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post #82 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 02:53 PM
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(maybe you can buy Figarou's used and close that loop too! )
There's that happy face. Since this forum is limited on emoticons, it's hard to tell the real use of it. I use it when I'm happy.

As for my 4520CI, it's not for sale as of yet. I'm going hold off getting the X7200W to make sure there is no X9200W in the future. If it's WAY out of my price range, I'll consider the X7200W. The reason is that even though the European specs for the X5200W is out, it doesn't mean the U.S. will be the same. No HD radio in the European model. But there is on the U.S. model. It could be the same for the X7200W.

These model numbers has got me thinking. How come its not the X7100W? The others below it are 1100, 2100, 3100, and the 4100. They are 2014 models. It seems like the X5200W and the X7200W are 2015 models with that #"2."
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post #83 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 03:04 PM
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My presumption is that the 2nd digit is intended to set replacement expectations. i.e. the model numbers they'll be using for next year's (2015's) annually replaced units will be x2xx, too. The "high end" units already will be numbered x2xx, so they won't be replaced. The soonest one might expect a high-end replacement would be in 2016. If they continue to use this new numbering scheme, this suggests that the high end 2016 models will be numbered x4xx, while the lower models will be numbered x3xx.

But they'll probably have someone else deciding on model numbers by then, and come up with some completely different scheme.

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post #84 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figarou View Post
There's that happy face. Since this forum is limited on emoticons, it's hard to tell the real use of it. I use it when I'm happy.

As for my 4520CI, it's not for sale as of yet. I'm going hold off getting the X7200W to make sure there is no X9200W in the future. If it's WAY out of my price range, I'll consider the X7200W. The reason is that even though the European specs for the X5200W is out, it doesn't mean the U.S. will be the same. No HD radio in the European model. But there is on the U.S. model. It could be the same for the X7200W.

These model numbers has got me thinking. How come its not the X7100W? The others below it are 1100, 2100, 3100, and the 4100. They are 2014 models. It seems like the X5200W and the X7200W are 2015 models with that #"2."


"Since this forum is limited on emoticons, it's hard to tell the real use of it."


Figarou,

Look closely when posting as there are plenty of Emoticons to convey emotions! At the bottom left of the "Smilies" (Emoticons) box when posting there is a clickable link labeled (More) that has some additional Emoticons!

Here's one for jesting, being silly or sarcastic


...Glenn
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post #85 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Glenn Baumann View Post
"Since this forum is limited on emoticons, it's hard to tell the real use of it."


Figarou,

Look closely when posting as there are plenty of Emoticons to convey emotions! At the bottom left of the "Smilies" (Emoticons) box when posting there is a clickable link labeled (More) that has some additional Emoticons!

Here's one for jesting, being silly or sarcastic


...Glenn
I've seen them.

I used to make my own emoticons. Except mine is a dragon!!

The uploaded dragon emoticon gif will be my reaction if a X9200W really does exist!!
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post #86 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 06:34 PM
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Has Denon mentioned anything about releasing a processor only with 11 ch pre-outs to compete with Marantz offering. (sorta like their AVP but much cheaper)
This way you can have your Atmos processor and whatever external amps you want. NO worries of heat. Just curious.

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post #87 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 06:37 PM
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I've seen them.

I used to make my own emoticons. Except mine is a dragon!!

The uploaded dragon emoticon gif will be my reaction if a X9200W really does exist!!
Nice! I like it.
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post #88 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post
Has Denon mentioned anything about releasing a processor only with 11 ch pre-outs to compete with Marantz offering. (sorta like their AVP but much cheaper)
This way you can have your Atmos processor and whatever external amps you want. NO worries of heat. Just curious.
They haven't done that in a long while, it seems like that's what they use Marantz for now. Also, it would still put out a lot of heat, cause it's the processor that does that. I use none of the internal amps and my x4000 is still quite warm when I don't have a fan on it.
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post #89 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post
Has Denon mentioned anything about releasing a processor only with 11 ch pre-outs to compete with Marantz offering. (sorta like their AVP but much cheaper)
This way you can have your Atmos processor and whatever external amps you want. NO worries of heat. Just curious.
They won't compete with Marantz because that's the same company.

And as Keith notes much of the heat isn't from the amps at all.
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post #90 of 3815 Old 07-30-2014, 08:46 PM
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I agree they are the same company but each uses their own internal components and design which makes them different. A Marantz receiver cannot be the same as a Denon receiver or even a McIntosh processor since Mac is also owned by the same company. Im not trying to start a war over who is better, I have owned all 3 brands and have my own preference but I have always wondered if the cases were opened and examined closer what percentage are the same parts used in each make? 30%, 60%, 90% because the prices for all 3 range from hundreds to $15,000 for the latest MX-152. But I wonder how many denon/Marantz parts are really inside that expensive Mac. Just thinking aloud.

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