The "Official" 2014 Denon Atmos+XT32 Model Thread (X4100/X5200/X7200) - Page 42 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1231 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
I can't say yet - my 5200 doesn't arrive till the end of next week. I will of course report my findings here.
Going Japanese built, are ya?

My only debate with you was about Japanese vs Chinese quality. No way am I trying to resume that debate either. Just teasing you. I presume you had functional reasons or some good deal for upgrading from the X4100 to the X5200?

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post #1232 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
The Dolby Surround upmixer utilizes any height/top speaker locations (see the chart on page 297 of your user's manual for a complete diagram of the various sound modes and speaker outputs).



Upgrades will normally be made available via download. Again, see your user's manual (pages 69, 170, and especially 256/257).
Thank you!
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post #1233 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
I can't say yet - my 5200 doesn't arrive till the end of next week. I will of course report my findings here.

How are you set up?
I am set up exactly like I figured I would be after reading the owners manual some time ago.
I maintained my Front Wides for DSX / NEO:X use in a 9.1 setup and I installed 4 top speakers for 7.1.4. I use an external amp for the Top Rear speakers and another one for Zone2 audio. So in the main zone with only one external amp I can either run 9.1 DSX or 11 channel DSU/Atmos 7.1.4.
After reading the white paper on speaker placement I moved my tops 80cm more to the side walls now meeting all the requirements for Top Front and Top Middle. I am configured for Top Front and Top Rear because Top Middle isn't an option in my case. The testing is simple: When moving from my current MLP to an MLP where I would meet the criteria for TF and TR (thus moving forward about one meter) I don't hear much of a difference.
I am very curious about your findings since your nice Atmos review made lots of us drewl a bit
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post #1234 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 12:42 PM
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X5200 Wi-Fi?

Does the X5200 support 802.11n? (hope so).

If so, does it support the 5GHz band?

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post #1235 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 02:35 PM
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Question about wattage and ATMOS

So I have a X5200W and its been really quiet, so much that I have to set the volume to near it's max to get some good volume. My media room is about 17x12 I'm using 2 Dali IKON 6 MKII's, 6 Dali Phantom E-80's, and a Dali VOKAL 2 MKII. They all have a nominal impedance of 6Ω (I changed to the 6Ω setting in the receiver btw). I'm wondering if this has anything to do with the power supply. According to this:http://www.profitlineav.com/wp-conte...ssey-Tiers.pdf, the receiver should have wattage of 9X140W= 1260W, if I understand correctly. However, the actual Denon specs say the wattage is 730W. If the wattage is 1260W, my surge protector may not be a giving enough power. Could this be why my the speakers are so quiet?

ALSO, about Dolby ATMOS, I have 6 ceiling speakers, 2 front tower speakers, a center, a sub. Will ATMOS be compatible with my surround being only ceiling speakers, since ATMOS is meant to have sound from the ceiling and the wall? I want to use ATMOS because it's processing makes number of channels irrelevant, allowing for more speakers, which will be beneficial as more blu rays with ATMOS come out. And do I need to recalibrate the speakers with Audessy to go to ATMOS?
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post #1236 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by kokishin View Post
Does the X5200 support 802.11n? (hope so).

If so, does it support the 5GHz band?
Sorry, 802.11b/g (2.4 GHz) only. However, as I understand it, there is no cogent need for a faster connection when streaming audio only.
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post #1237 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 03:03 PM
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Have been slowly setting it up 5200 over past few days...
Have run into a few issues.
1. Seemed to me that the syn between audio and video was alittle off when I had Blade Runner in movie (the lip sync seemed a little off...I think there is a setting built into the receiver to correct for this so it may not mean there is something inherently wrong with the receiver.
2. I notice that the display on projector screen is flickering when just streaming internet radio. It also flashed that it is trying to play 4k/60 in upper right corner (I took video to show Denon if needed).So, I am wondering if this is simply an instance where the flicker is because the AVR is sending 4k signal to my PJ which does not handle true 4k . I am not panicking yet that I have a lemon and will look to see if there is a way to downgrade signal coming from the HDMI when playing audio without high level video....

any thoughts?

thanks
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post #1238 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 03:03 PM
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Sorry, not "stinging". I misspelled "setting." Sorry about that.
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post #1239 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwkurian View Post
So I have a X5200W and its been really quiet, so much that I have to set the volume to near it's max to get some good volume. My media room is about 17x12 I'm using 2 Dali IKON 6 MKII's, 6 Dali Phantom E-80's, and a Dali VOKAL 2 MKII. They all have a nominal impedance of 6Ω (I changed to the 6Ω setting in the receiver btw). I'm wondering if this has anything to do with the power supply. According to this:http://www.profitlineav.com/wp-conte...ssey-Tiers.pdf, the receiver should have wattage of 9X140W= 1260W, if I understand correctly. However, the actual Denon specs say the wattage is 730W. If the wattage is 1260W, my surge protector may not be a giving enough power. Could this be why my the speakers are so quiet?
Exacty what volume setting are you using?

The power rating is not related to how loud things sound at a given volume control setting.

Modern receivers have a non-linear volume control, and they show the value in dB relative to "reference", not to the maximum power that the AVR can provide. After you run the Audyssey calibration procedure, Denon (& Marantz) receivers play at "reference" volume when the volume control setting is 80 (or when it's 0 if you change the volume scale to "relative"). Most people find that far too loud and tend to play movies at a volume setting 15-20dB below that, or at about 60-65. If you haven't already, please take the time to look through the Audyssey 101 and FAQ. They explain this and other related info in great detail. "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)

Quote:
ALSO, about Dolby ATMOS, I have 6 ceiling speakers, 2 front tower speakers, a center, a sub. Will ATMOS be compatible with my surround being only ceiling speakers, since ATMOS is meant to have sound from the ceiling and the wall? I want to use ATMOS because it's processing makes number of channels irrelevant, allowing for more speakers, which will be beneficial as more blu rays with ATMOS come out. And do I need to recalibrate the speakers with Audessy to go to ATMOS?
Atmos provides overhead sounds in addition to ear-level sounds. With most of your speakers already overhead, you won't get much advantage from it. You might want to consider adding in-wall or on-wall speakers to provide the ear level surround sound, and redesignate some of your ceiling speakers as Top channels (e.g. Top Middle for what were a "Side Surround" pair approximately over the seating, "Rear Height" for those which were "Surround Back".)

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post #1240 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
Sorry, 802.11b/g (2.4 GHz) only. However, as I understand it, there is no cogent need for a faster connection when streaming audio only.
Thanks.

Unfortunately, 802.11g clients, especially streaming 802.11g clients, can drag the network performance down for 2.4GHz 802.11n clients as well in a mixed network. I'll use a wired LAN connection to the X5200.

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post #1241 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mwkurian View Post
I'm using 2 Dali IKON 6 MKII's, 6 Dali Phantom E-80's, and a Dali VOKAL 2 MKII. They all have a nominal impedance of 6Ω (I changed to the 6Ω setting in the receiver btw).
Change the ohm switch back to 8 ohm for full power. Restrict power only as a last option. Explained better here.
http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amp...ector-switch-1
What is the large/small setting and crossover level for each speaker? This can affect power use/volume level also.
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post #1242 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by danrudy View Post
Have been slowly setting it up 5200 over past few days...
Have run into a few issues.
1. Seemed to me that the syn between audio and video was alittle off when I had Blade Runner in movie (the lip sync seemed a little off...I think there is a setting built into the receiver to correct for this so it may not mean there is something inherently wrong with the receiver.
2. I notice that the display on projector screen is flickering when just streaming internet radio. It also flashed that it is trying to play 4k/60 in upper right corner (I took video to show Denon if needed).So, I am wondering if this is simply an instance where the flicker is because the AVR is sending 4k signal to my PJ which does not handle true 4k . I am not panicking yet that I have a lemon and will look to see if there is a way to downgrade signal coming from the HDMI when playing audio without high level video....

any thoughts?

thanks
Yeah you can change the lip sync if you need to. It also sounds like you may have 4k up converting on under HDMI settings. Or you might have it on auto and since it is just outputting it's own UI it is sending it as 4k.

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post #1243 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by kokishin View Post
Thanks.

Unfortunately, 802.11g clients, especially streaming 802.11g clients, can drag the network performance down for 2.4GHz 802.11n clients as well in a mixed network. I'll use a wired LAN connection to the X5200.
I was going to recommend connecting via ethernet but I figured you were constrained from doing so and didn't want to rub salt in the wound.

I took some pains to run Cat6 cable to a gigabit switch in my main listening area years ago despite having a fairly robust home wi-fi network. I think it's a much better solution, where feasible, particularly for downloading any eventual FW updates or upgrades.
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post #1244 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
I was going to recommend connecting via ethernet but I figured you were constrained from doing so and didn't want to rub salt in the wound.

I took some pains to run Cat6 cable to a gigabit switch in my main listening area years ago despite having a fairly robust home wi-fi network. I think it's a much better solution, where feasible, particularly for downloading any eventual FW updates or upgrades.
I presume (hope) that the X5200 supports 100Base-T, not 10Base-T?

802.11n is so ubiquitous I'm disappointed that the AVR manufacturers are still stuck on 802.11g. I know: a penny shaved is a penny earned.

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post #1245 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Exacty what volume setting are you using?

The power rating is not related to how loud things sound at a given volume control setting.

Modern receivers have a non-linear volume control, and they show the value in dB relative to "reference", not to the maximum power that the AVR can provide. After you run the Audyssey calibration procedure, Denon (& Marantz) receivers play at "reference" volume when the volume control setting is 80 (or when it's 0 if you change the volume scale to "relative"). Most people find that far too loud and tend to play movies at a volume setting 15-20dB below that, or at about 60-65. If you haven't already, please take the time to look through the Audyssey 101 and FAQ. They explain this and other related info in great detail. "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)

Atmos provides overhead sounds in addition to ear-level sounds. With most of your speakers already overhead, you won't get much advantage from it. You might want to consider adding in-wall or on-wall speakers to provide the ear level surround sound, and redesignate some of your ceiling speakers as Top channels (e.g. Top Middle for what were a "Side Surround" pair approximately over the seating, "Rear Height" for those which were "Surround Back".)
How do I change the volume form "reference" to "relative"? I don't see anything about that in the manual.
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post #1246 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by mwkurian View Post
How do I change the volume form "reference" to "relative"? I don't see anything about that in the manual.
Sorry, they don't use that terminology in the manual. The two types of volume scale are described on page 180 of the X5200's manual.
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post #1247 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by sikclown View Post
Yeah you can change the lip sync if you need to. It also sounds like you may have 4k up converting on under HDMI settings. Or you might have it on auto and since it is just outputting it's own UI it is sending it as 4k.

the flickering seems (to me at least) to have been due to the AVR being set on AUTO trying to send a 4k/60 image to the projector. Putting it on 1080 seemed to have solved that. However, I downloaded the Denon and Oppo apps to my iPad so I do not anticipate using the pj to display the playing songs if I decide to stream in music. Therefore, I put the video output back on AUTO as I will want it to detect optimal video when I am playing a movie.

HOWEVER, the issue with syncing is going to be more difficult, THere is an audi delay setting that allows one to delay audio from 0-200ms. However, the issue is not that my audio is coming in initially to fast. It is initially coming in too slow. Thus, delaying audio is not helping...it makes it worse. Is there a way to make the audio come in a split second faster or delay the video from 0-200ms .

THere is a "lip sync" mode that is turned on. I tried turning it off to no benefit. It says it is for TV;s equipped with that mode. my PJ (JVC x500R) does not seem to have such a mode as far as I can tell.

ANY ideas how to fix this sync issue?

Thanks
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post #1248 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 07:18 PM
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Will it be field upgradable, say through the USB port,
Although planned at some point in the future, firmware updates are currently via networking connection to the Denon servers only.

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post #1249 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 10:13 PM
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Received my X5200 this week, its my first Denon, upgraded from the Onkyo Tx-NR809. Only thing I'm missing so far is more of the online streaming capabilities that the Onkyo has.
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post #1250 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mwkurian View Post
So I have a X5200W and its been really quiet, so much that I have to set the volume to near it's max to get some good volume. ?
I've been testing this for less than a day, but I can confirm the same problem. After running room correction, I gotta turn it up crazy high to hear it at a reference level. I just barely got speakers on the ceiling so i'll be testing all day Sunday and report.
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post #1251 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by kokishin View Post
Thanks.

Unfortunately, 802.11g clients, especially streaming 802.11g clients, can drag the network performance down for 2.4GHz 802.11n clients as well in a mixed network. I'll use a wired LAN connection to the X5200.
Yes, a wired connection is always preferable.
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post #1252 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 10:40 PM
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I've been testing this for less than a day, but I can confirm the same problem. After running room correction, I gotta turn it up crazy high to hear it at a reference level. I just barely got speakers on the ceiling so i'll be testing all day Sunday and report.
Could be the first bug that needs to be fixed hopefully via firmware update. Does the ECO mode, Dynamic Volume effect this?
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post #1253 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 10:50 PM
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I've been testing this for less than a day, but I can confirm the same problem. After running room correction, I gotta turn it up crazy high to hear it at a reference level. I just barely got speakers on the ceiling so i'll be testing all day Sunday and report.
Just a stab in the dark but do you have any of your speakers set to large, when they should be small.

My 5200 is plenty loud enough.
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post #1254 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 10:51 PM
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Could be the first bug that needs to be fixed hopefully via firmware update. Does the ECO mode, Dynamic Volume effect this?
Haven't really tested it because I turned it up. I just noticed that the volume bar is like 90% of max by the time I get to a level I enjoy. It could be room calibration for all I know.
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post #1255 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 11:03 PM
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Just a stab in the dark but do you have any of your speakers set to large, when they should be small.

My 5200 is plenty loud enough.
Ya I dunno. My biggest problem right now is my subwoofer. Before it boomed with the might of a giant. Now you can't even hear it. I'll be correcting it all weekend, but if it doesn't adjust the way I want it I will abandon XT32 and call it the worst idea ever.
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post #1256 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 11:37 PM
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Sorry, they don't use that terminology in the manual. The two types of volume scale are described on page 180 of the X5200's manual.
Thanks, I had already done that. I still had to put to volume to -12dB. Is that high? Its was near the "max" that was displayed.
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post #1257 of 11339 Old 09-20-2014, 11:59 PM
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Just a stab in the dark but do you have any of your speakers set to large, when they should be small.

My 5200 is plenty loud enough.
My speakers are not set to large and they still are much too quiet.

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post #1258 of 11339 Old 09-21-2014, 12:21 AM
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Ya I dunno. My biggest problem right now is my subwoofer. Before it boomed with the might of a giant. Now you can't even hear it. I'll be correcting it all weekend, but if it doesn't adjust the way I want it I will abandon XT32 and call it the worst idea ever.
My sub was also really quiet after calibration. During calibration, the Audyssey program said the sub was too loud (80-something dB), and told me to turn down the sub until it was at around 75db. I just followed through, and the sub could barely be heard.

I found that the problem could be alleviated by turning by the bass level in the settings and by turning up the dial on the sub itself. In addition, changing the sub setting from "LFE" to "LFE+main," which, if I understand correctly, sends low frequency signals to all the speakers.

Now, my bass shakes the house, maybe a bit too much (if thats even possible ).

However, all my other speakers, which are powered by the receiver, are much quieter than they should be, just like yours. What's weird is that they were sounded very loud (and annoying), during calibration. How about yours?
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post #1259 of 11339 Old 09-21-2014, 12:35 AM
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Would the setting LFE not just be the .1 signal ?
lFE+main sounds like the crossed over part of the other speakers can go through the sub as well. Than the other speakers would have to be small for them to use a crossover and send the info below crossover to the sub output.

This is how it should work, no experience with Denon though.
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post #1260 of 11339 Old 09-21-2014, 02:39 AM
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Location: Orlando, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spizz View Post
Could be the first bug that needs to be fixed hopefully via firmware update. Does the ECO mode, Dynamic Volume effect this?
Not seen on others X5200W units, and no, ECO mode would not affect this, and Dynamic Volume would actually make the audio louder at a lower master volume level.
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(X4100/X5200/X7200) , remote , X4100 , X4100W , X5200W

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