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The "Official" 2014 Denon Atmos+XT32 Model Thread (X4100/X5200/X7200)

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#1 · (Edited)
This thread will cover the three 2014 Denon models with Dolby Atmos and Audyssey MultEQ XT32 calibration. Dec 2014 Update: These models now have the option of a PAID upgrade to add the Auro featureset, which includes Auro2D and Auro3D decoding and the "Auro-matic" upmixer.

Please refer discussion of the non-Atmos 2014 S/X-Series models (i.e. AVR-X3100 and below) to the Official 2014 S/X Owner's Thread.


Official Press Release Announcement of AVR-X4100 and AVR-X5200

Denon AVR-X7200W EU/UK Product Sheet


Can someone explain this Dolby Atmos thing to me??

The three Dolby white papers linked below are essential reading for anyone who wants to understand this paradigm shift in home-theater audio, which literally takes movie sound into the third dimension. Everything you need to know is covered well in these three documents.

Dolby Atmos for the Home Theater
Dolby Atmos-Enabled Speaker Technology
Dolby Atmos Home Theater Installation Guide White Paper




Denon AVR-X4100W ($1,399 msrp)

The new AVR-X4100W is basically an X4000 with Atmos, HDMI 2.0, Bluetooth, WiFi, and an extra HDMI input. There are some other minor changes (noted below) but these are the key differences most will care about. In order to support the variety of potential speaker options, the pre-out count has been upped to 13.2 outputs (from 11.2 on the X4000), although note that a maximum of 9 channels can be active at a time regardless of how many external amps you add. The additional pre-outs are for flexibility if you want to have the option of switching between various speaker configurations (e.g. 7.1 + Wides for DTS Neo:X, and 7.1 + In-ceiling speakers for Dolby Atmos).


Denon AVR-X5200W ($1,999 msrp)

The X5200W is basically a Japan-made, souped up X4100W. It adds two more internal amps (9 total) rated at 140W/ch into 8 ohms (up from 125W/ch of the X4100), two more channels of processing capability (can run 11 simultaneously instead of 9 max), and fancier gold plated speaker connectors. Like the X4100W, the X5200W has a full set of 13.2 channel pre-outs, but since it can run 11 channels simultaneously, you can switch on the fly (example) from 11ch Neo:X and 7.1.4 Atmos, provided you have sufficient channels of external amplification to supplement the 9 internal amps. The X5200W also borrows from the higher end 4520CI (and its replacement X7200W) by incoporating a beefier "monolithic discrete amplifier" design with upgraded "Denon High Current Transistors" (DHCT), so it can be assumed it will be much more capabable of handling difficult speaker loads than the lower level models.


Denon AVR-X7200W ($TBD msrp)

The X7200W is the new "flagship" and true successor to the 4520CI, as opposed to the X5200 which is probably more of a logical successor to the older 3808CI level. The X7200W steps up the build quality with a physically larger chassis (a bit over 1 inch deeper and taller), is 8 lbs heavier than the X5200 (39lbs vs 31lbs), and upgrades to full 32-bit processing architecture (32-bit DAC's, D.D.S.C - HD32 processing, AL32 instead of AL24, etc). The "discrete monolithic" amplifier design of the 5200 by is upgraded by separating it into two left/right banks of discrete monolithic amplifier channels for better isolation. It also provides 7.1 EXT IN analog inputs, an extra component video input and a second component video output (output scan be configured for Main Zone or other zones). The X7200W, like its 4520CI and 4810CI predecessors, offers more flexibility with custom Amp Assign options (as opposed to the fixed templates on the lower models). And, unlike the lower level models, the X7200W will have the option of a paid hardware upgrade to the new HDCP2.2 chipset sometime in 2015.



What's else is new this year?

Leaving aside Atmos for a moment, the general differences between last year's models and are discussed more thoroughly in the first few posts of the Official 2014 S/X Owner's Thread.. The biggest (non Atmos) differences that most will care about vs. the outgoing X4000 and 4520CI:

* Upgrade to HDMI 2.0 with 3D, 4:4:4 and 4K/60fps pass through support (note that the HDMI ports are NOT certified for HDCP 2.2 however!)
* ISF Certification (allows different Day/Night video calibration settings per input)
* Bluetooth built in for wireless streaming
* Networking and WiFi built in, with support for DSD and hi-rez (192kHZ) FLAC and WAV files via network stream or USB
* Built-in Spotify interface replaced by "Spotify Connect" for all networked models (i.e. you can only control it from a separate device, not from the receiver directly)
* A new "TV Audio On/Off" setting to defeat the annoying auto switching caused by an HDMI-CEC ARC connection
* Heavily revamped smartphone/tablet remote apps coming in the fall with expanded functionality
* Return of Quick Select buttons on the remote (as opposed to just on the front panel)
* Return of the "Channel Level" on screen menu for on the fly adjustments to all channels (note that for the first time this setting is per input not per surround mode)
* Expanded "Option" menu for on-the-fly audio/video adjustments (the "Setup" menus will now be reserved for more global adjustments)
* HDMI and SPDIF digital audio to Zone 2, and SPDIF (no HDMI) digital audio to Zone 3 (the X4000 already had this but the 4520CI didn't).


Some cool new usability enhancements!

Improved Audyssey calibration inferface: The interface is slicker and easier to use, with better visual feedback. There are also some useful changes to the instructions provided, for example the system warns you to not measure close to the back wall, and after the 1st position it informs you to keep the other measurements within 2 feet of the 1st measurement, ensuring a tight "bubble" of measurements that will yield superior results. Also, there is no longer the confusing separation between the "Calculate" and "Store" steps (with many people forgetting to "Store"!). Now, when you complete Audyssey calibration, it proceeds through the calculation and saving of the filters as one step, with a nice progress bar showing what's happening. In addition, while it's calculating/saving, it lets you know you can unplug the mic, and then asks you if you want to turn on Dynamic EQ (default = yes) and Dynamic Volume (default = no) instead of making you wait until the end. Subtle stuff, but a really nice step forward!

Improved All Zone Stereo implementation: The popular "All Zone Stereo" feature which allows you to synchronize any audio source (including HDMI) across all zones continues, but there are a couple of cool enhancements. First, unlike the previous models, it is no longer a requirement to manually turn on the other zones first before engaging All Zone Stereo. When you start All Zone Stereo, the other zones turn on automatically. Second, it is no longer necessary to use ALL the zones. When you open the "Option" menu to access All Zone Stereo option, each of the other zones listed (Zone 2 and Zone 3) has a little checkbox next to. You can check/uncheck which zones you want to "participate" in the All Zone Stereo output, and then when you engage the modes only those zones checked will turn on and start playing.

A new Channel Level adjustment paradigm: Also accessible from the "Option" menu is a new Channel Level adjustment screen. Previous Denons have had on-the-fly Ch Level adjustment menus, but Denon has changed the way they work with the new 2014 lineup. There are two key changes for this year. First, the adjustment is RELATIVE to the baseline established in the Speaker setup menus. In other words, the "default" setting in this menu is always 0dB, and any changes will be plus or minus from the baseline level set in the Speaker menu. Second, the adjustment is stored PER INPUT. So, for example, you can set your Blu-ray input to be +3dB on the subwoofers and +2dB on the center channels, and it will only affect that input and make those adjustments relative to the balanced levels set during auto setup. If you want to make a GLOBAL change to a speaker channel level, you need to go into the GUI and access the Ch Level test tones via Speakers > Manual Setup > Levels.
 
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#6,764 · (Edited)
On that receiver it could only be done with external amps. So to output to two other stereo zones you'd need to use 4 of the 7 channels on the external amp. Then use the other 3 for LCR and then let internal amps power the other 8 main zone speakers.

Only the X7200 can freely assign unused internal amps like you desire.
 
#6,766 ·
Just trying out Spotify Premiun trial for the 1st time on my 4100! Not bad, really like all the features, doubt Ill keep it though for 10 bucks a month...

But, it does sound Amazingly good...
 
#6,773 ·
Hopefully in May or whenever Denon updates theyre controll App they add where the app will stay in the status bar for Volume Controll! So you dont have to in and out of it to turn the volume up and down or mute....;)

Fingers Crossed.
 
#6,774 ·
Speaking of the upcoming D&M upgraded control app, does anyone here use DeRemote? I purchased the app for $4.99 (iOS version) and it is way better than the current control app. I've been using it with my X4100, I came across the app in the April edition of Stereophile Recommended Components. Definitely worth checking out if you own a compatible D&M model.
 
#6,775 ·
on my x4100 I get slight hum from the surround sound preouts.

its 100% the preouts because I have tried all the trouble shooting...swicthed speakers..different wire runs.different amps.

when I hook up the surrounds directly to the binding posts its gone...when I take off the RCA wire its gone...still there when I tried a different rca cable.

any thoughts how to get rid of it? or is it a warranty issue?

thanks
 
#6,777 ·
no its on a seperate circuit...and all other speakers are powered by the amp(s) and they have no hum (all the same speaker models as well)

also there is no Tv its a dedicated HT with PJ

thansk JD
 
#6,790 ·
Hey guys! Do you know where I can find the changelog for the latest AVR-4100 firmware update? Many Thanks!
 
#6,797 ·
I am using the DeRemote App for my X4100 and prefer it over Denon App.:)
 
#6,803 · (Edited)
Hey Guys, question for you....
I recently got the AVR-X7200W receiver and I connect my speakers for the Atmos 7.1.4 like the manual of the Denon suggest using one external amp, see picture attached.
My question is that I have 1 pair of speaker on my patio and I would like to connect as a Zone2. I bought another Amp for this pair.
How do I connect this pair of speakers for Zone2 from the receiver to the second amp? Is that possible? Can I use the airplay function to play music on Zone2 without losing my Atmos speaker setup?
 

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#6,808 ·
#6,810 ·
This is a curious thing that was happening to me , until I discovered the trick to avoid it .
I have all my equipment connected to the internet by Ethernet cable (I gave up on Wifi) including my Denon 7200W receiver and every time I power on the Denon receiver , if I don`t power it on first , I loose the internet connection and I have to turn it off for a couple of minutes , then , it would re-connect itself ok automatically .
Then , I found out that the trick is to turn the Denon on first ... then there is no problem . It seems that if I turn on any other equipment connected to the internet (my TV, the Blu-ray , etc ) before the Denon , it will steal the connection ... weird , but true .
So I just make sure to turn the Denon On first and there is no problem . This is happening only with the Denon . Anyway , if anybody experience the same problem , now it knows how to fix it .
 
#6,811 ·
No issues with my 4100, hooked up to ethernet on a netgear 5 port gigabit switch! Also a PS4, and Panasonic BR player...:)
 
#6,815 · (Edited)
^^
As long as DTS:X uses the same speaker labels ... yes. Audyssey only is concerned with what speaker labels are used and whether or not any "new" labels are added which have not previously been EQ'd if a configuration changes, thus causing it to be disabled. It doesn't care what audio is being played ... DD, DTS, Atmos, Auro, DTS:X, etc. :)

As an example ... I can run Audyssey on an Atmos 7.1.4 setup using Front Height + (Top Middle or Top Rear or Rear Height) and still use that same Audyssey EQ with an Auro 3D 7.1 (Front Height). It's only when I want to add a "new" speaker label (ie. Surround Height) that Audyssey is then disabled until the new speakers are EQ'd as well.
 
#6,825 ·
Hello!

I have a X7200W and I suffer from a strange problem...

When i play Spotify or Tidal via Airplay from my iPad i get a sort of strange sound in the speakers. Like a rattling, sparkling noise.

But when I play Spotify via Spotify: Connect it sounds great.

Can someone help me with this? How do i fix this?

Thank you!
 
#6,828 ·
Hi.

Re the multizone HDMI on the 7200W...

1/ Can the x7200W output bitstream multichannel HDMI audio (ie all the codecs right up to and including Atoms) out of the *second* HDMI port (without down converting to stereo).. at the same time as the *primary* HDMI port? ie can I connect the second HDMI output into another receiver in a second room next door and play back a bluray or other HDMI source and get multichannel Dolby True HD and DTS Master and Atmos etc in BOTH rooms??

2/ will this situation change when I upgrade the hardware to HDCP 2.2?

3/ Can the HDCP 2.2 hardware upgrade be DIY at home? And what will be involved?

Thanks!
 
#6,849 ·
If D&M and other AV Receiver manufacturers is listening...hope they take in our "feedback" and make it happen. If it is technically feasible - DTS people already announced that it is POSSIBLE...then I really do not see why the manufacturers not allowing it.

IF and that's a BIG "IF"...I am one of the board of directors (decision makers), it will make sense to go into a 2-tier marketing approach to package DTS:X. For flagship tier models in the likes of Denon X7200W, allow the upgrade to be free or you can choose to charge a "fee" (just like what Auro 3D upgrade) for 2014 models...this will help to keep the "existing" customers neutral in their views knowing well that they have a "choice" to take on the upgrade albeit at a nominal fee via firmware upgrade or not.

As for X4100W/X5200W users (myself using X5200W), to make us "feel" better...the way to go is to allow the same route - i.e. upgrade at a nominal fee to receive the update. I strongly believe that most of us will be fine for a reasonable fee (we have to keep DTS happy as well) to be charged to receive the upgrade. To appease the X7200W users (which have paid a lot more premium price), it is only fair that the X7200W users to be allowed for a free upgrade to DTS:X or at a much lower upgrade fee compared to the X4100/X5200W users. By the account, I believe X5200W user should also be fairly compensated in terms of the upgrade fee - i.e. be charged at a lower price than the X4100W users.

Of course, the BEST way out is to allow FREE UPGRADE for the early adopters of Atmos AV Receivers. This IMO makes perfect business sense as those "on the fence" customers can finally take a plunge into the latest iteration of AV Receivers featuring BOTH Atmos and DTS:X - expect sales to increase whilst earning a one-time "fee" from existing customers and at the same time keeping them less disgruntled. Either way, after the release of the news next week by DTS, I am expecting the sale to go up since there is more clarity now and customers can buy with more confidence.

The next challenge will be the movie studios and its promise/pledge to release how many titles per month to keep the customers happy.
 
#6,855 ·
Hi,

I bought a x4100w a few days ago.
Everything was going great and i was very happy with it!

But starting today, the center speaker seems to has lost all amplification :(
I can hear it only if I raise the volume to 80%

I made a full factory restore etc ... nothing to do.

Do you think it can be a HW failure ?

Thanx
 
#6,859 ·
It appears since you swapped cables and speakers and got the same result, then it seem you have a center channel going out. If you bought local, I would ask to just swap out your unit for a new one (since it's a very recent purchase) vs sending it in for repair.

Sorry to hear about your issues, good luck with the resolution (keeps us updated)
 
#6,862 ·
FYI I bricked my x5200w trying to do a FW upgrade. It kept failing to connect over wireless or wired didn't matter. After the error nothing would work and I would need to do a full network reset, blowing away all my settings.

After reading some earlier post I wanted to share that in order to get the FW update to work I unhooked all input HDMI cables and the update started working.

I'm really glad this thread exists!
 
#6,865 ·
I am having some issues with HDMI connections. Ocassionaly i have some artifacts on screen on setup/options menus, once I had some random flickery mess all over the screen. I also had some various dancing dots when using media player connected to reciever (Popcorn). That seems to go away when i unplugg/replug cables few times, but I am wondering do I need better cables or is that a common issue with HDMI connections?
 
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