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The "Official" 2014 Denon Atmos+XT32 Model Thread (X4100/X5200/X7200)

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#1 · (Edited)
This thread will cover the three 2014 Denon models with Dolby Atmos and Audyssey MultEQ XT32 calibration. Dec 2014 Update: These models now have the option of a PAID upgrade to add the Auro featureset, which includes Auro2D and Auro3D decoding and the "Auro-matic" upmixer.

Please refer discussion of the non-Atmos 2014 S/X-Series models (i.e. AVR-X3100 and below) to the Official 2014 S/X Owner's Thread.


Official Press Release Announcement of AVR-X4100 and AVR-X5200

Denon AVR-X7200W EU/UK Product Sheet


Can someone explain this Dolby Atmos thing to me??

The three Dolby white papers linked below are essential reading for anyone who wants to understand this paradigm shift in home-theater audio, which literally takes movie sound into the third dimension. Everything you need to know is covered well in these three documents.

Dolby Atmos for the Home Theater
Dolby Atmos-Enabled Speaker Technology
Dolby Atmos Home Theater Installation Guide White Paper




Denon AVR-X4100W ($1,399 msrp)

The new AVR-X4100W is basically an X4000 with Atmos, HDMI 2.0, Bluetooth, WiFi, and an extra HDMI input. There are some other minor changes (noted below) but these are the key differences most will care about. In order to support the variety of potential speaker options, the pre-out count has been upped to 13.2 outputs (from 11.2 on the X4000), although note that a maximum of 9 channels can be active at a time regardless of how many external amps you add. The additional pre-outs are for flexibility if you want to have the option of switching between various speaker configurations (e.g. 7.1 + Wides for DTS Neo:X, and 7.1 + In-ceiling speakers for Dolby Atmos).


Denon AVR-X5200W ($1,999 msrp)

The X5200W is basically a Japan-made, souped up X4100W. It adds two more internal amps (9 total) rated at 140W/ch into 8 ohms (up from 125W/ch of the X4100), two more channels of processing capability (can run 11 simultaneously instead of 9 max), and fancier gold plated speaker connectors. Like the X4100W, the X5200W has a full set of 13.2 channel pre-outs, but since it can run 11 channels simultaneously, you can switch on the fly (example) from 11ch Neo:X and 7.1.4 Atmos, provided you have sufficient channels of external amplification to supplement the 9 internal amps. The X5200W also borrows from the higher end 4520CI (and its replacement X7200W) by incoporating a beefier "monolithic discrete amplifier" design with upgraded "Denon High Current Transistors" (DHCT), so it can be assumed it will be much more capabable of handling difficult speaker loads than the lower level models.


Denon AVR-X7200W ($TBD msrp)

The X7200W is the new "flagship" and true successor to the 4520CI, as opposed to the X5200 which is probably more of a logical successor to the older 3808CI level. The X7200W steps up the build quality with a physically larger chassis (a bit over 1 inch deeper and taller), is 8 lbs heavier than the X5200 (39lbs vs 31lbs), and upgrades to full 32-bit processing architecture (32-bit DAC's, D.D.S.C - HD32 processing, AL32 instead of AL24, etc). The "discrete monolithic" amplifier design of the 5200 by is upgraded by separating it into two left/right banks of discrete monolithic amplifier channels for better isolation. It also provides 7.1 EXT IN analog inputs, an extra component video input and a second component video output (output scan be configured for Main Zone or other zones). The X7200W, like its 4520CI and 4810CI predecessors, offers more flexibility with custom Amp Assign options (as opposed to the fixed templates on the lower models). And, unlike the lower level models, the X7200W will have the option of a paid hardware upgrade to the new HDCP2.2 chipset sometime in 2015.



What's else is new this year?

Leaving aside Atmos for a moment, the general differences between last year's models and are discussed more thoroughly in the first few posts of the Official 2014 S/X Owner's Thread.. The biggest (non Atmos) differences that most will care about vs. the outgoing X4000 and 4520CI:

* Upgrade to HDMI 2.0 with 3D, 4:4:4 and 4K/60fps pass through support (note that the HDMI ports are NOT certified for HDCP 2.2 however!)
* ISF Certification (allows different Day/Night video calibration settings per input)
* Bluetooth built in for wireless streaming
* Networking and WiFi built in, with support for DSD and hi-rez (192kHZ) FLAC and WAV files via network stream or USB
* Built-in Spotify interface replaced by "Spotify Connect" for all networked models (i.e. you can only control it from a separate device, not from the receiver directly)
* A new "TV Audio On/Off" setting to defeat the annoying auto switching caused by an HDMI-CEC ARC connection
* Heavily revamped smartphone/tablet remote apps coming in the fall with expanded functionality
* Return of Quick Select buttons on the remote (as opposed to just on the front panel)
* Return of the "Channel Level" on screen menu for on the fly adjustments to all channels (note that for the first time this setting is per input not per surround mode)
* Expanded "Option" menu for on-the-fly audio/video adjustments (the "Setup" menus will now be reserved for more global adjustments)
* HDMI and SPDIF digital audio to Zone 2, and SPDIF (no HDMI) digital audio to Zone 3 (the X4000 already had this but the 4520CI didn't).


Some cool new usability enhancements!

Improved Audyssey calibration inferface: The interface is slicker and easier to use, with better visual feedback. There are also some useful changes to the instructions provided, for example the system warns you to not measure close to the back wall, and after the 1st position it informs you to keep the other measurements within 2 feet of the 1st measurement, ensuring a tight "bubble" of measurements that will yield superior results. Also, there is no longer the confusing separation between the "Calculate" and "Store" steps (with many people forgetting to "Store"!). Now, when you complete Audyssey calibration, it proceeds through the calculation and saving of the filters as one step, with a nice progress bar showing what's happening. In addition, while it's calculating/saving, it lets you know you can unplug the mic, and then asks you if you want to turn on Dynamic EQ (default = yes) and Dynamic Volume (default = no) instead of making you wait until the end. Subtle stuff, but a really nice step forward!

Improved All Zone Stereo implementation: The popular "All Zone Stereo" feature which allows you to synchronize any audio source (including HDMI) across all zones continues, but there are a couple of cool enhancements. First, unlike the previous models, it is no longer a requirement to manually turn on the other zones first before engaging All Zone Stereo. When you start All Zone Stereo, the other zones turn on automatically. Second, it is no longer necessary to use ALL the zones. When you open the "Option" menu to access All Zone Stereo option, each of the other zones listed (Zone 2 and Zone 3) has a little checkbox next to. You can check/uncheck which zones you want to "participate" in the All Zone Stereo output, and then when you engage the modes only those zones checked will turn on and start playing.

A new Channel Level adjustment paradigm: Also accessible from the "Option" menu is a new Channel Level adjustment screen. Previous Denons have had on-the-fly Ch Level adjustment menus, but Denon has changed the way they work with the new 2014 lineup. There are two key changes for this year. First, the adjustment is RELATIVE to the baseline established in the Speaker setup menus. In other words, the "default" setting in this menu is always 0dB, and any changes will be plus or minus from the baseline level set in the Speaker menu. Second, the adjustment is stored PER INPUT. So, for example, you can set your Blu-ray input to be +3dB on the subwoofers and +2dB on the center channels, and it will only affect that input and make those adjustments relative to the balanced levels set during auto setup. If you want to make a GLOBAL change to a speaker channel level, you need to go into the GUI and access the Ch Level test tones via Speakers > Manual Setup > Levels.
 
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#9,199 ·
I posted in the wrong forum and reposting here:

Hello, just hooked up my x5200w and am loving the sound compared to my Onkyo RC260. However I have a slight issue. After calibrating the speakers (without a sub) I am hearing my Paradigm Monitor 7's bottom out in bass heavy scenes like the ships flying in Tron. I have a subwoofer, but am unable to connect it due to my current living situation. I have tried setting the speaker size to small, but when I hit Info on the remote it does not show that Audyssey is active. On my old Onkyo I could set the speakers to small and fake like I had a sub, and then I could set the crossover on the speakers and the Audyssey was still in effect. So, is there a way to prevent lower frequencies from reaching the mains, or will I just have to use the manual setup until I am able to use my subs again?

jdsmoothie suggested that I limit the master volume. However, turning the volume down only seems to help when it is at very low volumes. Setting speakers to small and crossover to 40hz I can play at all volumes with no issue but removes the Audyssey calibration.
 
#9,200 ·
No you can't fake out the sub because Audyssey will think there is one present and itself off.

Here's some alternate options, in order of preference:

1. Adjust the Dynamic EQ Ref Level Offset to 10db so bass isn't boosted so much (in Audyssey section of Audio menu)

2. Turn down just the LFE effects by 10db (available in the Surr Parameters section of Audio menu).

3. Use Audyssey LFC and adjust the containment level until the speakers don't bottom out.
 
#9,201 ·
Trigger outs not working

I just hooked up a used 5200w and I have a problem with the triggers feeding the Emotiva amplifiers that I have (XPA5/2). I am moving from a 4311ci and it was working without an issue. With the 5200, the amplifiers don't turn on.
Under general->Trigger 1/2, I have everything set to on.
Are there any suggestions to what I can do or is it a defective unit?
 
#9,204 ·
I hope I am not intruding on a well heeled thread for which this comment is too basic. If so I apologize.

I have decided to wait a year or two before buying a flagship AVR to replace my current Pioneer AVR. I admit to being too conservative for my own good. I want to see some more stabilization of the latest stuff: Atmos, DTS-X, HDCP 2.2, etc.

There are some deals on refurbished Denon X5200W’s with extended warranties that look appealing (around $1200). The thinking is that the 5200 would activate the already installed 4 ceiling speakers, Atmos only, and begin a learning process for Audyssey. In the next year/2 the 5200 would be retired to the den.

The 7.1 ( but 2 subs ) system is powered by separate amps, so the current Pioneer AVR is acting as a processor. The 5200 would would only power Height 1 and Height 2 speakers. i have wide speakers; i don’t know if I will activate them.

I am still mulling over the wisdom of buying two AVRs in the space of two years. I have considered buying a pre-amp and have rejected that option for now.

I have a 4K TV, but would probably not be using the 5200 to process video. Again, I am primarily interested in Atmos and Audyssey.

Aside from the obvious financial considerations, does anyone have any pro or con comments on the technical side of this possible decision?
 
#9,206 ·
I hope I am not intruding on a well heeled thread for which this comment is too basic. If so I apologize.

I have decided to wait a year or two before buying a flagship AVR to replace my current Pioneer AVR. I admit to being too conservative for my own good. I want to see some more stabilization of the latest stuff: Atmos, DTS-X, HDCP 2.2, etc.

There are some deals on refurbished Denon X5200W?s with extended warranties that look appealing (around $1200). The thinking is that the 5200 would activate the already installed 4 ceiling speakers, Atmos only, and begin a learning process for Audyssey. In the next year/2 the 5200 would be retired to the den.

The 7.1 ( but 2 subs ) system is powered by separate amps, so the current Pioneer AVR is acting as a processor. The 5200 would would only power Height 1 and Height 2 speakers. i have wide speakers; i don?t know if I will activate them.

I am still mulling over the wisdom of buying two AVRs in the space of two years. I have considered buying a pre-amp and have rejected that option for now.

I have a 4K TV, but would probably not be using the 5200 to process video. Again, I am primarily interested in Atmos and Audyssey.

Aside from the obvious financial considerations, does anyone have any pro or con comments on the technical side of this possible decision?
Why not consider an 'old stock' X4100w @~800 instead if you have plans to move it to the den?

I would do that OR just get what you really want now and plan on keeping it....

I don't see the 'maturity' as an issue. Hdcp2.2 has some very simple workarounds, dual HDMI on the hypothetical player, optical, tv pass through etc. get something now and enjoy it.

I would buy a leftover or even an open box item before a refurb, warranty only takes you so far, it's still a refurb . I'm not saying I wouldn't consider the refurb at all.... Just never consider it truly 'good as new'.

-brent
 
#9,205 ·
RC-1193 remote control TiVo

I have a TiVo premiere (the 'hourglass remote') through my cable provider. The RC-1193 remote with my X4100w is so close to being a universal remote for me, but I can't locate a good code for it to control the TiVo as a Cbl box. I have it programmed for the unused 'game' input and can do some control with it, but it's a tad clumsy (no back button for example). The remote won't accept that same code for the Cbl/Sat input which is why I hijacked the Game device. I looked for directv (their boxes are built by TiVo from what I understand) and RCN codes, but none have worked so far.

Anyone know a denon remote code which will properly control the TiVo?

Thanks in advance
-Brent

P.s. I already have a harmony remote but i'd like this one optimized as well.
 
#9,208 · (Edited)
X5200 or X6200??

I have been planning an update of my 7.2 system driven by a Denon 5803, to a 7.2.4 system. I have considerations like Alanlee above.

I need to fund four top/height speakers as well as the new AVR. My HT budget is a "closed circuit budget", i.e. money not spend now will remain available for other HT equipment at a later point.

I do not plan to upgrade my projector to 4K the next 2-3 years, so the main difference seems to be DTS:X.

I can get a X5200 for 1230 USD incl. freight from a dealer in Germany, while the X6200 costs 2413 USD from an authorized Denon dealer in Denmark (both prices including VAT).
Buying the X5200 would leave funds for other upgrades, like better speakers, another AVR update 2-3 years down the line, etc.

The big question is - is DTS:X worth 1200 USD at this point, with so little source material available?
And am I missing something in the equation?

Cheers,
Jacob
 
#9,210 ·
I have been planning an update of my 7.2 system driven by a Denon 5803, to a 7.2.4 system. I have considerations like Alanlee above.

I need to fund four top/height speakers as well as the new AVR. My HT budget is a "closed circuit budget", i.e. money not spend now will remain available for other HT equipment at a later point.

I do not plan to upgrade my projector to 4K the next 2-3 years, so the main difference seems to be DTS:X.

I can get a X5200 for 1230 USD incl. freight from a dealer in Germany, while the X6200 costs 2413 USD from an authorized Denon dealer in Denmark (both prices including VAT).
Buying the X5200 would leave funds for other upgrades, like better speakers, another AVR update 2-3 years down the line, etc.

The big question is - is DTS:X worth 1200 USD at this point, with so little source material available?
And am I missing something in the equation?

Cheers,
Jacob
I would say no. Certainly not worth paying double the price for the promise of something that is still months away and isn't guarnateed to have a lot of content.
 
#9,220 ·
5200 Speaker Setup Help

Replaced a Denon 2308 with the 5200. Setting up the Surround Sound a few questions
I have B&W 685 Fronts, Klipsh mounted on the Wall both front and rear (somewhat high), Center Speaker and Sub woofer.
Questions are what would be the best settings for this type of setup.
Right not have the wall mounts set to surround right, left for the fronts and Surround Back left and Right for the rears.
Ran the Audyssey a few times and cannot get the surround sound balanced. Seems the B&W fronts over power the Wall mounts.
On the older Denon, I had the Klipsh's only for 5.1 Surround and the B&W's for Audio only, this worked great for my setup.
Cannot seem to duplicate the same setup.

My next step is going try to manually adjust the speaker volumes to see if this helps.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated
Thanks
 
#9,221 ·
i may be pulling this out of my butt - however, isn't there a suggestion that front speakers be set to small, no matter what the real size is? I can't seem to find it. I just got a new SVS SB12 and need to re-do audessy, but noticed that my fronts say LARGE.

if i recall correctly, LARGE means that the sub gets very little passed to it?
 
#9,223 ·
I'm still eye-ing up the 5200 for my new receiver once we finally get into the house. I'll be running just a 5.1 then, zone 2 to kitchen/nook and zone 3 to the deck. I was hoping it would drop a little more in price. I may have to make my 1913 pull duty for a while. How long will it take for the 5200 to go to the next price drop?
 
#9,232 ·
I would guess a year and that is only if they keep the "5300" made in Japan and the same quality. That is a sweet receiver. I wish I had the scratch to go from the 4100 to it. I am a family of 6 now and "mommy" is going to be a stay at home mom again for a couple years until our daughter is ready for pre-school rather than just a day care.
 
#9,229 ·
I got everything installed and I am very happy with the X4100W. I could not use banana lugs on my Klipsch RS-25' due to them interfering with the wall mounting. Sadly, I found out my camera tripod was part of a burglary I experienced a few years back and never claimed it :( The cardboard tower Denon includes is actually pretty good though.

Moving from component/composite to HDMI is like night and day though...I don't know if the sound quality is just because my Yamaha HTR=5960 was inferior or the HDMI now (I was using coax/optical in most cases already), but things like glass breaking and the like are much more clear and everything seems more dynamic.

The cool part to me is I ordered long enough cables to remove the components fully from my wall unit to reconfigure/replace. The only thing I need to upgrade is I ordered 3' HDMI's and they aren't quite long enough to pull them out still attached...Monoprice for the win though and I will pick up some 5 or 6' ones in the near future. I color coded / labelled everything this time around as well. No more guessing who's plug is who's. :)

I was also able to fix my lack of ground issue. The ground wire was in place but very short, fortunately the new receptacle I ordered had it's ground point in a perfect location to secure the ground.

I did spend more than the $350-450 budget I wanted, but for $799 I get a much better unit and a 3 year warranty on top of it.

One thing I am still debating is setting my Klipsch Quartets (38Hz - 20kHz+ (+/- 3dB)) to small to see what it sounds like like that. I have an Emotiva Ultra 12 subwoofer that can do 22Hz-200Hz in typical rooms. I also think I need to re-visit the crossover setting and phase setting to see what sounds best. I accidentally set my X-Over on the sub to 50Hz, apparently with the Denon I should leave it set to 150Hz and let Audyssey adjust it from there.
 
#9,230 · (Edited)
double post
 
#9,235 ·
Switching between L/R speaker A and B.

If I want to use different main L/R speakers for movies and for music, how can I do that with the X5200W?
I guess it requires switching the cables manually between the speakers, but what about audyssey calibration? Is there anyway to have two different presets?

Cheers,
Jacob
 
#9,236 ·
If I want to use different main L/R speakers for movies and for music, how can I do that with the X5200W?
I guess it requires switching the cables manually between the speakers, but what about audyssey calibration? Is there anyway to have two different presets?

Cheers,
Jacob
The 5200 directly supports a speaker configuration which includes two pairs of front speakers as you describe. See, for example, page 45 of the owner's manual which describes how to set up a 9.1 speaker configuration plus a pair of speakers for two-channel listening.
 
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#9,255 ·
Finally bought a SACD player, now I need to pickup some more sacds.... For now my only 1 is "The Police, Every Breath You Take"!

Love this sacd in 5.1 surround!:D
 

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#9,256 ·
A nice thing about modern AVRs and pre/pros is that they have sufficient CPU power to be able to process high-bit-rate audio (including DSD) through their room EQ. Most older DSD-capable equipment could only handle high-bitrate audio by sending it directly to their DACs. Of course, some people consider that an advantage, since it minimizes the "damage" that they believe has been done to the sound when it's been digitally processed.
 
#9,257 ·
Hi, any news on the DTS:X firmware update for the 7200WA release date? Thanks!
 
#9,259 ·
What's the best setting to use at night when watching movies so I don't wake everyone else up in the house? I've tried a few different setting but I still have a hard time hearing dialog, even with the dialog enhancer settings turned on. (I apologize I can't remember the settings I've tried as I'm in the middle of the firmware upgrade right now).

I'm currently setup as 5.4.1 with Front Height and Top Middle speakers in case that matters.

Thanks,
Dave
 
#9,260 ·
Setting Dynamic Volume to "Medium" will allow you to lower the Master Volume yet still hear the dialogue. With these XT32 models, you also have Audyssey LFC which when set to ON, and either left at the default setting of "4" or raised to the highest setting of "7" will help contain the lower level bass frequencies from traveling through the walls.
 
#9,261 ·
Let me rephrase. It using bypass fronts audyssey mode on the X5200W, with fronts set to small in bass management setup, and listening to a stereo signal from a digital source, in what cases (AVR mode selection) will the subwoofer be used, with audyssey applied just to the subwoofer? Stereo? Direct?
Thanks!
 
#9,266 ·
I mentioned earlier that I think my X5200W is running too hot for my liking.

I purchased an infrared thermometer and meassured the top of the amp 5 minutes into "mission Impossible - Rouge nation"

67,2 degreees c (153F)

Is this normal? I even have external amps to drive both my fronts and back atmos speakers.

regards
Jacob
 

Attachments

#9,275 · (Edited)
The "Official" 2014 Denon Atmos+XT32 Model Thread (X4100/X5200/X7200)

I know this is not the right thread but my x3200 runs super hot doing the same thing, same speakers same crossovers as my pioneer vsx90 was doing, vsx90 was barely warm, x3200 runs hot and i mean hot. It is in an open space on top of my media stand. At first i thought that the unit was defective but then i went to magnolia and checked out other denons, they all ran hot as hell. Ive been harping on this, denons run hot, go to magnolia and see for yourself, every single denon, in the same enclosures as aventages and elites, are much, much hotter than yamahas an pioneers. Im returning my x3200 to Frys because those levels of temperatures are unacceptable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#9,278 ·
I know this is not the right thread but my x3200 runs super hot doing the same thing, same speakers same crossovers as my pioneer vsx90 was doing, vsx90 was barely warm, x3200 runs hot and i mean hot. It is in an open space on top of my media stand. At first i thought that the unit was defective but then i went to magnolia and checked out other denons, they all ran hot as hell. Ive been harping on this, denons run hot, go to magnolia and see for yourself, every single denon, in the same enclosures as aventages and elites, are much, much hotter than yamahas an pioneers. Im returning my x3200 to Frys because those levels of temperatures are unacceptable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
But the temperature has no effect on the audio quality. Before I had my Denon, I was using a Yamaha RXV659. It was just as hot as the Denon.
 
#9,282 ·
I saw the instructions to access the ISF Day and Night settings on this (or the other thread) - but can't get it to wqork.

Can some confirm if they did it OK?

Press and Holds the INFO button for 5 Secs when the Option>Picture Adjust>OFF is displayed.

ISF Day are displayed, followed by ISF Night.

Thanks,
 
#9,283 ·
I saw the instructions to access the ISF Day and Night settings on this (or the other thread) - but can't get it to wqork.

Can some confirm if they did it OK?

Press and Holds the INFO button for 5 Secs when the Option>Picture Adjust>OFF is displayed.

ISF Day are displayed, followed by ISF Night.

Thanks,
 
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