Emotiva XMC-1 Owners Only Thread - Page 177 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5281 of 6267 Old 09-01-2016, 09:11 PM
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Yes, you can choose the crossover point, but not your crossover slope for the satellites. It is always 12dB with the idea that your speakers already naturally roll off at 12dB. That adds up to 24dB, which is the default rolloff for the subwoofer. You can select at 12dB slope for the subwoofer crossover, but the steeper slope is generally preferred.

I probably shouldn't have mentioned 80Hz. It's not really relevant. Just sticks in my head due to the old THX recommendations.

-tm

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post #5282 of 6267 Old 09-02-2016, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by millst View Post
Yes, you can choose the crossover point, but not your crossover slope for the satellites. It is always 12dB with the idea that your speakers already naturally roll off at 12dB. That adds up to 24dB, which is the default rolloff for the subwoofer. You can select at 12dB slope for the subwoofer crossover, but the steeper slope is generally preferred.

I probably shouldn't have mentioned 80Hz. It's not really relevant. Just sticks in my head due to the old THX recommendations.

-tm
My subs are powered by a Crown XTi DSP amp. It allows you to add crossovers and PEQ in the amp. Could this issue be addressed by adding a sub crossover with a 12dB slope so it would sum to 24dB?
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post #5283 of 6267 Old 09-02-2016, 12:35 PM
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The sub is already getting a 24dB slope from the XMC-1. The trick is getting the mains to have the same slope. There's also phase alignment of the speakers and sub, but that's a whole other can of worms.

Those kinds of DSP controls definitely can be helpful in getting everything integrated, however. Sounds like you have multiple subs. You'd want to get those playing aligned at the same level before calibrating with the XMC-1/Dirac. Otherwise, you can't calibrate their combined response because the XMC-1's dual sub mode cals them individually.

-tm
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post #5284 of 6267 Old 09-03-2016, 07:02 AM
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If the XMC-1 was updated with DDRC-88A's new bass management plug in feature would that correct the crossover issues of the XMC-1? Or is it an inherent issue in the way Dirac is implemented in the XMC-1?

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post #5285 of 6267 Old 09-03-2016, 07:34 AM
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There are actually two issues with BM crossovers on the XMC-1.

1) Proper slopes and phase-matching of LPF and HPF parts of the crossover.
2) Ability for Dirac to correct all-pass non-linear phase function, created by BM crossovers.

First one is exclusively traditional IIR based crossover issue. And if proper full Linkwitz-Riley crossovers would be available on the XMC-1 it would be solved. The 'fix' needed for that is quite trivial implementation that would require just two very focused things - adding 24db/octave LR slope to the options for Satellites and let it control a single biquad inserted to the DSP processing pipeline anywhere from right after BM to right before the speaker output (the exact placement may only affect numerical precision of the result, but not the frequency/phase responses).

The second one - is something Dirac is capable of correcting, but, due to implementation in XMC-1 it doesn't know anything about BM and it's configuration, so it simply doesn't know what to correct for. So, this one may be called an inherent issue, that cannot be solved without cooperation with Dirac or implementing their own correcting FIR solution (synthesizing the correcting FIR coefficients themselves would be very simple here, but executing it efficiently on the DSP hardware might not be so trivial, this is why cooperation with Dirac would be preferable as they have already done all the hard work).

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post #5286 of 6267 Old 09-03-2016, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by millst View Post
The sub is already getting a 24dB slope from the XMC-1. The trick is getting the mains to have the same slope. There's also phase alignment of the speakers and sub, but that's a whole other can of worms.

Those kinds of DSP controls definitely can be helpful in getting everything integrated, however. Sounds like you have multiple subs. You'd want to get those playing aligned at the same level before calibrating with the XMC-1/Dirac. Otherwise, you can't calibrate their combined response because the XMC-1's dual sub mode cals them individually.

-tm
I got the Crown amp to address the issue of the XMC-1 BM not allowing you to combine the subs (with separate time delays). Its like an amp + a Minidsp. It has time delays, PEQ, custom crossovers and a Y input that can take a single sub feed and split it to two subs. I have a 7.2 system with 2 RBH SI-1010's soffit mounted with their output slots 1/4 room width in, right next to the L,R's (see attached photo). I can run the subs stereo, dual mono, or mono off the Y input without changing any wiring. With regard to the crossover issue, will lowering the crossover point to 60 or 50 with 12db slopes on both help? The dual 10" drivers on the subs can play upto 200Hz +/- 3db.

On a separate note I have a second Dirac system in the outside lounge above the 7.2 system. Its a stereo 2.2 system with the subs mounted in the same place and James R,L speakers in front of them. This one is driven by a Minidsp DDRC-22DA with 96/24 Dirac and two crown amps to handle the crossovers, PEQ and time delays. It doesn't sound like I'll have any issues with the second system.
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post #5287 of 6267 Old 09-03-2016, 11:02 AM
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Having DSP amps for the subwoofers doesn't help you with the issues noted by Igorzep because they lie in the other channels. Those are great for dialing in multiple subs, as you noted.

-tm
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post #5288 of 6267 Old 09-03-2016, 12:37 PM
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Are these receivers reliable? When is Atmos and DTS:X coming out for the XMC-1?
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post #5289 of 6267 Old 09-03-2016, 04:30 PM
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When is Atmos and DTS:X coming out for the XMC-1?
Earliest would be Spring 2017. But with Emotiva's track record of delivering on time it could be well into 2018.
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post #5290 of 6267 Old 09-03-2016, 04:34 PM
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Earliest would be Spring 2017. But with Emotiva's track record of delivering on time it could be well into 2018.
That's just not true ! All of their projected components and upgrades always happen on time or before! Now where is my bottle of blue Stoli ?

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post #5291 of 6267 Old 09-04-2016, 09:24 AM
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My 40% card is sitting ready for the next generation of pre-pro with more than 11 ch of processing. I think/hope that Emo's experience with the teething problems of the XMC-1 has informed the release of the next gen. I find that word of mouth about them always comes up in other forums and it's a legacy that shouldn't be repeated. Just received my BasX-7 and it's typical Emo performance and quality. Replaces four MiniX-A100's for the Atmos overheads and gives me 3 fewer power cords, 3 fewer trigger cords, 1/2 the rack space, and double the power. Win, Win, Win.

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post #5292 of 6267 Old 09-07-2016, 06:33 PM
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@Djoel : Emotiva has said they do not plan to fix either issue on the XMC-1 last I heard but I have not kept track. There were some other issues that they have fixed for which I am grateful (one was pretty bad, having to do with level matching among speakers when some were full-range, fixed in one of the earlier FW patches). Hopefully they will fix them in their next prepro. UMC, XMC, maybe third time's the charm? I will look closely at the miniDSP units next time I upgrade, but I tend to hold onto things for quite a while so that will not be soon.
Not aimed at you Don the below post, just wanted to clear the air sort of speak. I appreciate your detailed response so I thank you for answering my question the best as you can.

Btw by no reason I'm saying I was disappointed with the way the XMC-1 operated when I had it, nor I encounter any serious issues either, just the occasional thumps, and clicks when listening to DSD enabled SACD disc!
Other than that I was extremely content playing flicks and music, the only reason I tossed that questioned out there was because Emotiva have just a great product, and I was shooting for perfection as I no to well, using other AVR's, and SSP, and AVP etc they all seem to have some issue or another.

About these problems that are being mention, this is when ignorance is bliss comes to play as I'm too behind the curb to have ever noticed or really cared.

Hopefully I get my hands on another unit down the road.

Djoel
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post #5293 of 6267 Old 09-07-2016, 06:43 PM
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My 40% card is sitting ready for the next generation of pre-pro with more than 11 ch of processing. I think/hope that Emo's experience with the teething problems of the XMC-1 has informed the release of the next gen. I find that word of mouth about them always comes up in other forums and it's a legacy that shouldn't be repeated. Just received my BasX-7 and it's typical Emo performance and quality. Replaces four MiniX-A100's for the Atmos overheads and gives me 3 fewer power cords, 3 fewer trigger cords, 1/2 the rack space, and double the power. Win, Win, Win.

I too have a 40%, well I lost it some how but it has been document and transferred to me by the original owner so hopefully I either find the the darn pesky card or Emotiva honors me by the time I'm ready to buy again.

So yeah I'm really cheering for them to pull out the next unit with as little issues as possible, because a issues-less unit as I said above is close to impossible to make. Well that's what I've learn thus far.


Dan
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post #5294 of 6267 Old 09-07-2016, 06:58 PM
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Dan, I can tell you that your "old" unit is performing superbly and has improved my home theater experience immensely. Due to the increased clarity over my previous pre/pro .. an Onk SC5508 ... I am able to get an SPL increase of 2dB-3dB (HUGE!) out of my system. And now, again, I am looking at beefing up my .1 so it can keep up! Curses!!

Jeff
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post #5295 of 6267 Old 09-08-2016, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Djoel View Post
Not aimed at you Don the below post, just wanted to clear the air sort of speak. I appreciate your detailed response so I thank you for answering my question the best as you can.

Btw by no reason I'm saying I was disappointed with the way the XMC-1 operated when I had it, nor I encounter any serious issues either, just the occasional thumps, and clicks when listening to DSD enabled SACD disc!
Other than that I was extremely content playing flicks and music, the only reason I tossed that questioned out there was because Emotiva have just a great product, and I was shooting for perfection as I no to well, using other AVR's, and SSP, and AVP etc they all seem to have some issue or another.

About these problems that are being mention, this is when ignorance is bliss comes to play as I'm too behind the curb to have ever noticed or really cared.

Hopefully I get my hands on another unit down the road.

Djoel
Dan,

My thoughts are very similar as yours regarding the XMC-1. I hope you'll have an XMC-1 or Emotiva's next generation prepro in your system in the near future !

With rainy whether the last few days I've been listening to quite a bit of music. I have noticed on several discs that the first second or so was cut off when starting playback. Not a big deal but an issue none the less. The issue that really bothered me was loud pops between tracks when playing a DAD from Art Davis. But that issue is rare but then again something that shouldn't be happening. Many have indicated it's an Oppo issue but when I turn off Dirac the pops stop. So that indicates that it's an issue with the XMC-1.

Even with the above issues I'm not in any rush to replace the XMC-1. After listening to quite a bit of music (stereo and multichannel) the past few days I'm very happy with how my system sounds. The reason I believe the SQ is so good is a blend of the XMC-1 and Dirac. The other huge plus of having the XMC-1 is how dead quiet my system is. With the volume set to -12 to -15 (which is quite loud with music playing) with no music playing I can put my ear right up to all of my speakers and there is absolutely no noise. No hum or hiss which I have never experienced since using external amps whether with an AVR or prepro. I'm using all balanced cables to a trio of Wyred 4 Sound amps. When I was using RCA cables with the XMC-1 and a Boston Acoustics A7200 amp there was a slight hum and hiss. Having a dead quiet system is a huge benefit so much so that I'll put up with the minor issues with disc playback. Of course the overall SQ of my system is an even bigger benefit !

Bill
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post #5296 of 6267 Old 09-08-2016, 07:48 AM
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Dan, I can tell you that your "old" unit is performing superbly and has improved my home theater experience immensely. Due to the increased clarity over my previous pre/pro .. an Onk SC5508 ... I am able to get an SPL increase of 2dB-3dB (HUGE!) out of my system. And now, again, I am looking at beefing up my .1 so it can keep up! Curses!!

Jeff
Thanks Jeff, that surely makes me feel a whole lot better to hear you're getting so much out of it.... I'm sure I would have still own the unit if my room would have not taken the transformation of a daycare.
I really feel bad for my rear speakers. I know these are innominate objects to a degree but they're cart away in a corner. The only two units getting use is the TV and Oppo, well the 105D is hard at work playing serious rotation of My Baby Can Read, and "Yo Gaba, Gaba" SD DVD, that's one majestic machine didn't see that coming when being built 😃 So thank you for saving the integrity of the XMC...

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post #5297 of 6267 Old 09-08-2016, 08:01 AM
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Dan,

My thoughts are very similar as yours regarding the XMC-1. I hope you'll have an XMC-1 or Emotiva's next generation prepro in your system in the near future !

With rainy whether the last few days I've been listening to quite a bit of music. I have noticed on several discs that the first second or so was cut off when starting playback. Not a big deal but an issue none the less. The issue that really bothered me was loud pops between tracks when playing a DAD from Art Davis. But that issue is rare but then again something that shouldn't be happening. Many have indicated it's an Oppo issue but when I turn off Dirac the pops stop. So that indicates that it's an issue with the XMC-1.

Even with the above issues I'm not in any rush to replace the XMC-1. After listening to quite a bit of music (stereo and multichannel) the past few days I'm very happy with how my system sounds. The reason I believe the SQ is so good is a blend of the XMC-1 and Dirac. The other huge plus of having the XMC-1 is how dead quiet my system is. With the volume set to -12 to -15 (which is quite loud with music playing) with no music playing I can put my ear right up to all of my speakers and there is absolutely no noise. No hum or hiss which I have never experienced since using external amps whether with an AVR or prepro. I'm using all balanced cables to a trio of Wyred 4 Sound amps. When I was using RCA cables with the XMC-1 and a Boston Acoustics A7200 amp there was a slight hum and hiss. Having a dead quiet system is a huge benefit so much so that I'll put up with the minor issues with disc playback. Of course the overall SQ of my system is an even bigger benefit !

Bill
Sounds like you're in hog heaven for sure Bill. Happy to hear your unit is in near state of optimum performance. Its what we stride for, and surely so. We spend so much time trying to get these units how we want them to play. The last thing we want is some odd anomaly to distract us from our quite time no Sir.
Again really happy that for most the unit is becoming the champion that promise to be.

Enjoy

Dan


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post #5298 of 6267 Old 09-08-2016, 12:24 PM
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Point for clarification: It is the Oppo that cuts off the first second or so of CD playback, not the XMC-1. Sorry I mentioned it, now everyone will be looking for it. Kinda' like the old Charlie Brown cartoon about being aware of your tongue...

I agree with Igor that the crossover curves and digital zero issues should be easy to fix but maybe not enough have noticed and/or complained. It will take them some time and resources and I do not know if they do the DSP code in-house or pay contractors. What would be really sweet is if, in the course of developing the next generation, these bugs were fixed and rolled back into the XMC-1. I cannot afford a new $2k ~ $3k processor every 2 or 3 years (I don't have a 40% off card ).

That said, I am not giving up mine anytime soon...
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post #5299 of 6267 Old 09-08-2016, 01:44 PM
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Just ordered my XMC-1 over Labor Day weekend and wanted to report that the new units are being upgraded and are shipped with HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. Shipping of my unit was delayed to next week as a result. It appears on my order form as XMC-1V2 :-)
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post #5300 of 6267 Old 09-08-2016, 02:01 PM
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Just ordered my XMC-1 over Labor Day weekend and wanted to report that the new units are being upgraded and are shipped with HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. Shipping of my unit was delayed to next week as a result. It appears on my order form as XMC-1V2 :-)
No additional height/ceiling channels yet though?

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post #5301 of 6267 Old 09-08-2016, 02:16 PM
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No sir, only HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. I think that the extra channels are only coming early next year :-/
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post #5302 of 6267 Old 09-08-2016, 02:55 PM
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The Emotiva site still lists Q1-2017 for Atmos and DTS-X. I am not interested in that, but am thinking about the $299 HDMI 2.0 upgrade as I might upgrade my TV later this year.

emotiva.com/xmc-1-enhancements

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post #5303 of 6267 Old 09-08-2016, 03:15 PM
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The Emotiva site still lists Q1-2017 for Atmos and DTS-X. I am not interested in that, but am thinking about the $299 HDMI 2.0 upgrade as I might upgrade my TV later this year.
Personally, I have zero interest in the technologies that need a higher version of HDMI/HDCP than the release XMC-1 version.

I do have a mild interest in AtmosDTS-X. And might get that upgrade to play with.

As I have no plans to (any time soon) sell my XMC-1, I won't be getting any upgrades to improve the resale value.

Jeff

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post #5304 of 6267 Old 09-08-2016, 07:33 PM
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The catch for me is that the biggest driver for the upgrade is to get HDR as that seems to be the biggest improvement in the picture. And, I think that requires HDMI 2.0a, which I am not sure this HW upgrade supports.

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post #5305 of 6267 Old 09-08-2016, 09:15 PM
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The catch for me is that the biggest driver for the upgrade is to get HDR as that seems to be the biggest improvement in the picture. And, I think that requires HDMI 2.0a, which I am not sure this HW upgrade supports.
According to an Emotiva employee on there forums, this first hardware update is HDMI 2.0 only with plans to release a separate round of hardware updates that will have HDMI 2.0a possibly by the end of the year.

Found it:
Quote:
Full clarification.....

The "current" HDMI update board, which will be available as an upgrade in a few weeks, and which will be included in all new units shipping from now on, has one input and one output which support HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2.
This fulfills all the requirements for 4k, including the copy protection, WHICH MEANS THAT THIS BOARD WILL PASS ALL "STANDARD 4k SOURCES" (it will pass the signal from 4k satellite and cable boxes, and from 4k disc players).
This board is at the top of the unit, and requires you to remove and replace quite a few screws, and several cables - but doesn't require any soldering.
While we PREFER to do the installation here, we will probably allow people to do it themselves if they really want to.
This board will NOT support HDR10 (which is part of HDMI 2.0a), and probably won't work with the 4k version of Dolby Vision HDR.

There will be ANOTHER HDMI board upgrade around year end 2016 that will upgrade multiple inputs and outputs (probably all of them) to HDMI 2.0a.
This future board will support HDMI 2.0a (and, of course, HDCP 2.2), and WILL support HDR10 (HDR10 is part of HDMI 2.0a) and Dolby Vision at 4k.
(It may also support HDMI 2.0b - but I'm not prepared to even discuss that yet 8D .)
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Last edited by BigCoolJesus; 09-08-2016 at 09:20 PM.
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post #5306 of 6267 Old 09-09-2016, 05:56 AM
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Yah, which is why I haven't ordered the upgrade. From what I have read the biggest advantage to 4K for most of us is actually HDR and not the higher resolution. I am not much of a video jock so can wait. Besides, I have taxes to pay, college to pay, no extra money for toys right now...

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post #5307 of 6267 Old 09-09-2016, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
The catch for me is that the biggest driver for the upgrade is to get HDR as that seems to be the biggest improvement in the picture. And, I think that requires HDMI 2.0a, which I am not sure this HW upgrade supports.
My theater uses a front projector ... that I am not even close to upgrading ... and it is my understanding that FPs are not capable of HDR.

Is that incorrect?

,

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post #5308 of 6267 Old 09-09-2016, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post
My theater uses a front projector ... that I am not even close to upgrading ... and it is my understanding that FPs are not capable of HDR.

Is that incorrect?

,
They are capable of HDR (Sony's 520ES from last year was the first FP to support HDR)...but I'm not sure how well it fares as projectors cannot reasonably compete in the current "sun spot searing" brightness wars.

Though I suppose it's all relative. OLED can't match LCD in peak nits but can compete in HDR due to having absolute zero blacks (so technically an infinite contrast ratio). I would assume that since projectors of this caliber are being used in black hole like theater rooms it wouldn't take too much extra lumen output to give a proper HDR effect.

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post #5309 of 6267 Old 09-09-2016, 11:35 AM
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Yah, which is why I haven't ordered the upgrade. From what I have read the biggest advantage to 4K for most of us is actually HDR and not the higher resolution. I am not much of a video jock so can wait. Besides, I have taxes to pay, college to pay, no extra money for toys right now...
You are correct. Having briefly owned an LG ES9500 and trying out 4k and HDR on it, the latter is the only reason I would deem an upgrade necessary when it's feasible for me again. Sure 4k makes a big difference for most FP setups and those who use their TV for up close gaming or watching...but it's the HDR that will make anyone stop and notice a true difference.

No rush right now, though, as the HDR mastering of movies is all over the board. Much like the early days of 1080p mastering where some early titles got it right and others barely improved over their DVD release.

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post #5310 of 6267 Old 09-13-2016, 08:22 PM
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This just in from Big Dan, I know this isn't news for the XMC-1 but on the RMC-1 not sure if there is a thread on this unit. Glad to hear things are moving along with this big boy.


Quote:
Well kids, I can promise you that you will never see another analog video connection on an AV processor or receiver from Emotiva. Analog video is dead, and good riddance.

I can't remember the last time I need an S-video jack... oh wait, for my 1995 laser disc player!! I need to re-watch Top Gun!! 8-) If analog video support is deal breaker for a state of the art AVP, then you've come to the wrong place.

About the lack of a phono input... the AVP is essentially an audio computer. Lot's of high speed digital stuff gong on inside the box. Bad place for a MC/MM phone stage. So, it lives outside; think the XPS-1.

Now, we will probably end up adding a second pair of XLR line inputs before production... so that is a good idea!

Regarding the lack of RCA main outputs... again, this is a S.O.T.A. processor. We believe that 90% of the users will be connecting to higher-end power amplifers. However, it will ship with nice XLR to RCA adaptors for those of you who need RCA outs. There was no need to clutter up the rear with both types of jacks.

All 16 channels are fully balanced in to out. That is, it contains 16 fully differential gain paths with balanced DAC's, volume controls, etc. etc. It's super sweet!!

And finally, that is the correct rear panel XLR spacing and all 16 XLR's fit just like they're shown.
Peace out,
Big Dan
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