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post #31 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post
Isn't the idea to have independent delay and level, but summed EQ?
It is possible we may have the ability if we chose to do this AND then let Dirac put the finishing touches for the unit as a whole.
We will need to wait and see.
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post #32 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
this is great news and responsiveness on Emo's part. Does any know what the max delay is in either feet or ms?
I read it would be in feet (and in meters).
Can an owner confirm?
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post #33 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
this is great news and responsiveness on Emo's part. Does any know what the max delay is in either feet or ms?
Looks kinda limited. I could only get it to 327 feet or 99.7 meters.

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post #34 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 09:37 AM
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XMC-1 Owner too

Hi everyone,
I had the UMC-1 and UMC-200 and have just taken receipt of the XMC-1. The UMC-1 was a little problematic for me but the UMC-200 and now the XMC-1 are working like a champ.

I like the changes in the GUI which are more like the UMC-1 where inputs are assignable. I did re-cable everything to XLR but the main reason is I like the connection style better than the RCA. I have my unit bi-wired to my 802's with my XPA-2's and the ERC using the Balanced In. The trigger functionality is very comprehensive and I like when I plug in my headphones that it does an auto-standby on the amps and turns them on when I pull the headphone out. I have to listen to low volume music on weekends and really appreciate the Fletcher-Munson volume compensation.

I chose to receive the XMC-1 before Dirac as I had a lot of other things I could do with the processor. I have set my distances manually but will wait patiently for the Dirac for the room correction and do not envision myself getting immersed in the REW or OmniMic ( I have a Sailboat and Golf clubs that demand some attention too).

I have the worst room in the world and so I know my system needs tweaking once Dirac hits my rack. The biggest game changer that I see from us enthusiasts is that now we can focus on feature function talk and start to leverage some applied learning with each other. I am glad you all started this thread.

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post #35 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by sticknstones View Post
The biggest game changer that I see from us enthusiasts is that now we can focus on feature function talk and start to leverage some applied learning with each other.
I suspect this will be increasingly true once you guys have Dirac up and running. Learning how to do proper setup and target curve tweaking will require time and proper group support.

Something to look forward to.
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post #36 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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I suspect this will be increasingly true once you guys have Dirac up and running. Learning how to do proper setup and target curve tweaking will require time and proper group support.

Something to look forward to.
Yep... I have to admit to having been seduced into the set it up and leave the serious tweaks until later.

One of the design standouts is the seriously vast range of customization that exists within the box while allowing an almost plug and play option to get things up and running.

I did set speaker levels with an SPL meter and distances with a tape measure, but given the options on trigger setting, I just plugged a cable from Trigger #1 output and hooked it to the top mono amp which then goes on to the next and so on. Have not laid out specific speakers for stereo vs. movies in the XMC-1, for example, as I have manual switch up by the fronts because I use different fronts for stereo anyhow. Now that I think about it, it might be good to shut down the center, sides and back amps for stereo listening, so maybe I'll read up on setting the triggers, after all.

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post #37 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by bborzell View Post
Have not laid out specific speakers for stereo vs. movies in the XMC-1, for example, as I have manual switch up by the fronts because I use different fronts for stereo anyhow. Now that I think about it, it might be good to shut down the center, sides and back amps for stereo listening, so maybe I'll read up on setting the triggers, after all.
...and you can do this per input?
If so, nice.
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post #38 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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...and you can do this per input?
If so, nice.
Don't know yet. To find put would drag me further away from my set it and forget it status.

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post #39 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 12:54 PM
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I hope the update also fixes the pink noise for channel level calibrations. (Needs to be bandlimited for that, not wideband which is for EQ.)
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post #40 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post
...and you can do this per input?
If so, nice.
Yes, the triggers have 4 categories; main, input, speakers, headphones. I am using Main and Inputs where my ERC only powers up when I choose that input and you can do the same on the amps based on speakers. It is very comprehensive.
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post #41 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 01:59 PM
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Do the EQ/level/distance changes happen on-the-fly or do you have to apply them first? In other words, can I measure and tweak real-time or do I have to bump things around a tiny bit, apply, measure, rinse, wash, repeat?
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post #42 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DreamWarrior View Post
Do the EQ/level/distance changes happen on-the-fly or do you have to apply them first? In other words, can I measure and tweak real-time or do I have to bump things around a tiny bit, apply, measure, rinse, wash, repeat?
Are you asking whether you have to close the menu in order to apply/hear your distance changes?

I know that level changes with the white noise tone occur on the fly, but I am not sure how to confirm whether changes occur with distance/delay on the fly. Seems like you would need to have more than one speaker active in order to detect relative delay changes.

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post #43 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 03:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sticknstones View Post
Yes, the triggers have 4 categories; main, input, speakers, headphones. I am using Main and Inputs where my ERC only powers up when I choose that input and you can do the same on the amps based on speakers. It is very comprehensive.
I thought it had that flexibility. What I have not experimented with is whether the speakers are "engaged" through an internal individual channel switch in the XMC-1 or by turning respective amps (I have three monos in front) on and off in keeping with each inputs speaker assignment (all three fronts, sides, rear and subs on for movies and only left/right front for stereo CDs).

My current trigger setting has the processor telling the 1st mono amp to turn on and #1 relays that command to #2 amp and so on.

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post #44 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
I hope the update also fixes the pink noise for channel level calibrations. (Needs to be bandlimited for that, not wideband which is for EQ.)
Was that mentioned the the feature request thread there?
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post #45 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post
Was that mentioned the the feature request thread there?
Lonnie acknowledged reading my post on July 24.

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post #46 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
I hope the update also fixes the pink noise for channel level calibrations. (Needs to be bandlimited for that, not wideband which is for EQ.)
Can you calibrate correctly using wideband with SPL meter?
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post #47 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 06:03 PM
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Can you calibrate correctly using wideband with SPL meter?
The use of a wideband meter is assumed. The idea of the narrow-band noise is to focus the calibration to the most important and most reliable part of the spectrum, thereby preventing the SPL meter from being affected by bass errors, for example. This is why THX and Dolby have required AV processors to have filtered noise since Pro Logic days in late 1980s. Nothing new. Once the XMC-1 gets certified by Dolby, it will presumably have that capability.

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post #48 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 06:09 PM
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the XMC-1 gets certified by Dolby, it will presumably have that capability.
What's the process for this?

Thanks
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post #49 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 06:21 PM
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What's the process for this?
Well, up until I departed Dolby in 2008, manufacturers would submit new models to Dolby for testing. There are ways to self-test but the data still has to be confirmed.

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post #50 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 06:52 PM
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Lonnie acknowledged reading my post on July 24.
I just realized that your excellent post on this topic is in the beta tester thread, not the feature request thread. I'll make sure to document it there as well.
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post #51 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 08:04 PM
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Are you asking whether you have to close the menu in order to apply/hear your distance changes?

I know that level changes with the white noise tone occur on the fly, but I am not sure how to confirm whether changes occur with distance/delay on the fly. Seems like you would need to have more than one speaker active in order to detect relative delay changes.
Pretty much -- for example, on my Denon 4311ci, some changes occur immediately, levels for example. I enter the channel level menu, bump the level up, and the measurement immediately shows the difference. On the other hand, crossover frequency doesn't work that way. If I decide I want to move my mains crossover, I first have to select the new crossover value then press return for it to activate the new setting. Worse, after pressing return the sound drops out for a brief moment before the new x-over setting takes effect. So, if I'm trying to decide (while listening) which setting I like best, it's hard due to the dropout. And when I'm measuring, it's inconvenient.

Now, if PEQ settings on the Emotiva worked like the crossover on my Denon, I'd be really annoyed. I'd expect that as I tweak the PEQ I can tweak and hear it on-the-fly, like the levels controls.

I suppose the PEQ is the most important, but I would like all settings to occur on-the-fly because it's easier to a-b different values while listening and more convenient for measuring.

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post #52 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
The use of a wideband meter is assumed. The idea of the narrow-band noise is to focus the calibration to the most important and most reliable part of the spectrum, thereby preventing the SPL meter from being affected by bass errors, for example. This is why THX and Dolby have required AV processors to have filtered noise since Pro Logic days in late 1980s. Nothing new. Once the XMC-1 gets certified by Dolby, it will presumably have that capability.
The XMC-1 is not certified by Dolby yet? Could this be the reason there aren't any Dolby (or DTS) logos on the faceplate?
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post #53 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 08:15 PM
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Now, if PEQ settings on the Emotiva worked like the crossover on my Denon, I'd be really annoyed. I'd expect that as I tweak the PEQ I can tweak and hear it on-the-fly, like the levels controls.
Do you adjust the PEQ by ear? I'm pretty new to PEQs, as I've just started using the one in JRiver, but I can't imagine using it without measuring a sweep first. Of course, that might be my lack of experience.

Levels, on the other hand, should absolutely be adjustable on the fly. As you play your test tone, you should be able to see the change register on the SPL meter when you adjust the level. I can understand why crossover wouldn't work that way.
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post #54 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bborzell View Post
Looks kinda limited. I could only get it to 327 feet or 99.7 meters.
ok, well that should do the trick.
thx

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post #55 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post
Do you adjust the PEQ by ear? I'm pretty new to PEQs, as I've just started using the one in JRiver, but I can't imagine using it without measuring a sweep first. Of course, that might be my lack of experience.

Levels, on the other hand, should absolutely be adjustable on the fly. As you play your test tone, you should be able to see the change register on the SPL meter when you adjust the level. I can understand why crossover wouldn't work that way.
I'd probably do a little of both -- measure, tweak, listen, tweak. Heck, I may even feel inclined to tweak a little for certain tracks or musical styles. Say I wanted a little more punch in a track -- I may fiddle around with a PEQ centered from 60 to 70hz. I'd want to slide the center, Q, and level dynamically while listening to the track to see what feels and sounds best....

Maybe that's just me.....

edit: as for the x-over thing...I was just trying to provide an example of on-the-fly vs. not in my unit, in case the gentleman is familiar with the Denon unit's operation. That said, while I don't see why it'd be hard to allow me to tweak the x-over on the fly, it is probably something I'd be less likely to tweak once it's set.
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post #56 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 08:39 PM
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Peq is on the fly and instant. There is multiple settings so you can have manual 1 as flat,manual 2 with house curve, and manual 3 with fletcher curve.

On my umc200 I use 6 songs I have heard hundreds of times. They cover the whole musical spectrum. I tweak by ear, measure and then fine tune by ear again.
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post #57 of 3928 Old 07-30-2014, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by matty1137 View Post
The XMC-1 is not certified by Dolby yet? Could this be the reason there aren't any Dolby (or DTS) logos on the faceplate?
I am not saying it is certified or not. Licensees are given time to address what is found, especially when it is a simple firmware matter, as it can come along with other updates.

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post #58 of 3928 Old 07-31-2014, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bborzell View Post
I know that level changes with the white noise tone occur on the fly
Is it white noise or pink noise?

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post #59 of 3928 Old 07-31-2014, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post
Isn't the idea to have independent delay and level, but summed EQ?
Both.

Best results are achievable with independent level, delay and PEQ. This is what Welti's SFM does. Unfortunately we don't have access to the software and there's no manual process to get this right. So having independent level, delay and PEQ is kind of moot.

A more practical approach is to play around with subwoofer location, delay und level and try to achieve 1) low seat-to-seat variance and 2) minimize non-minimum phase effects at the same time. The latter is often forgotten when people make recommendations about multiple subwoofer setups. It's as crucial as 1)
After that step all subs are equalized as one.

Both approaches require measurements of course.

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post #60 of 3928 Old 07-31-2014, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
I am not saying it is certified or not. Licensees are given time to address what is found, especially when it is a simple firmware matter, as it can come along with other updates.


Okay, I see. Thanks, Roger.
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