2014-model Onkyo receiver auto-calibration: how is it? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 07-28-2014, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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2014-model Onkyo receiver auto-calibration: how is it?

Is it in the same ballpark to the untrained ear vs. Audyssey? Can they do things similar do Audyssey MultEQ, Dynamic EQ, Dynamic Volume, somehow?
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post #2 of 16 Old 07-28-2014, 10:34 AM
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It is garbage. From another thread:

For those of you that don't realize that AccuEQ is junk compared to XT32, here is a comparison with graphs proving it: http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-101-1645.html

Be sure to scroll down to post # 16 to see the comparison graphs between AccuEQ and XT32.

Credit to kbarnes for the link.

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post #3 of 16 Old 07-28-2014, 01:04 PM
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Going by the graphs it looks like AccuEQ did the job, it matched all the speakers. It would only be a real compare if they ran Audyssey with the same speakers in the same room. Highend rolloff, a soft sounding center and a hot sub is not uncommon with Audyssey. Maybe if the mains were brighter, the graphs would of been flater. Really not much to go by. The movie RE-EQ may of been active?

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post #4 of 16 Old 07-28-2014, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
It is garbage. From another thread:

For those of you that don't realize that AccuEQ is junk compared to XT32, here is a comparison with graphs proving it: http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-101-1645.html

Credit to kbarnes for the link.
Zeus33 - I have been reading your input and responses to people on a couple of threads about the 2014 Onkyo lineup. Any particular reason you are so hostile over Onkyo dropping Audessey?

I have read all of you posts stating a strong case as to why you think AccuEQ sucks but you seem really pissed off for no good reason. I understand that you have graphs but have you actually used one of these new AVRs?

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post #5 of 16 Old 07-28-2014, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonHxC View Post
Zeus33 - I have been reading your input and responses to people on a couple of threads about the 2014 Onkyo lineup. Any particular reason you are so hostile over Onkyo dropping Audessey?

I have read all of you posts stating a strong case as to why you think AccuEQ sucks but you seem really pissed off for no good reason. I understand that you have graphs but have you actually used one of these new AVRs?

Hostile? No. Extremely disappointed? Yes! I just want to make sure that people understand they are getting an extremely sub par device if they purchase a model with AccuEQ. I have purchased Onkyos exclusively for 2 decades and recommended them highly to friends. I have had every version of Audyssey up to XT32. XT32 is simply staggering at the corrections it can make. It literally makes some setups sound like they have upgraded the equipment. Every person I know that has used it has been extremely impressed with the results as well. Going forward, I won't have a system without it or something that gives equivalent results (if that happens).

I see a lot of posts from people asking questions about stuff that has been discussed ad nauseum in multiple threads, so obviously some posters don't read a lot of the forum. I'm just trying to make sure that they understand what they are getting. A lot of people will think Room EQ is Room EQ and most of those people don't care enough about the sound to even care. Most of them will be so enamored with ATMOS, they probably won't even care. But, for the ones that want to know the real facts, I try to make sure they get them. There are multiple threads asking about AccuEQ vs Audyssey, is AccuEQ any good, so on and so forth. I just figured I would post that same info in the Onkyo specific threads. Like the 818 thread. A guy was pondering the purchase of an 838 and getting rid of his 818 that has XT32. So I provided the info.

As I mentioned, I have purchased Onkyo exclusively for two decades, and I will never buy another one unless they bring back XT32 or find software that can produce equivalent results for a reasonable price.

To answer your question, no, I have not used one of the new AVRs and there is no need for me too. The facts are right in front of me in black and white. Before I ever saw any graphs, I knew it would be garbage. You can't have successful room equalization when you measure from one position and ignore the front main speakers.

If you don't agree, by all means, go purchase one. But don't say I didn't warn you.

If you have interest in one, I highly recommend that you listen to an XT32 setup in your home first if any way possible and then demo one with AccuEQ. I can pretty much guarantee that you will choose XT32.

There are members here that don't like the sound that Audyssey gives them. For those members, Obviously it's a moot point. I think the ratio of those that don't like it to those that do is very lopsided for the ones that do, but to each their own. The bottom line is, do you like the sound it gives YOU? If so, they are great options.

BTW, I have heard Pioneer's version (MCACC?) and Yamaha's version and think they are both severely lacking compared to XT32 and they are similar to what AccuEQ does.
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post #6 of 16 Old 07-28-2014, 02:36 PM
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The only good EQ is a dead EQ.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

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post #7 of 16 Old 07-28-2014, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I appreciate all replies so far, thank you, even though I disagree with fatbottom. :-) To each his own. I like what Audyssey does for me.
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post #8 of 16 Old 07-29-2014, 06:25 AM
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Thank you for the clarification, I understand your position and why you have such a strong opinion now.



Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
Hostile? No. Extremely disappointed? Yes! I just want to make sure that people understand they are getting an extremely sub par device if they purchase a model with AccuEQ. I have purchased Onkyos exclusively for 2 decades and recommended them highly to friends. I have had every version of Audyssey up to XT32. XT32 is simply staggering at the corrections it can make. It literally makes some setups sound like they have upgraded the equipment. Every person I know that has used it has been extremely impressed with the results as well. Going forward, I won't have a system without it or something that gives equivalent results (if that happens).

I see a lot of posts from people asking questions about stuff that has been discussed ad nauseum in multiple threads, so obviously some posters don't read a lot of the forum. I'm just trying to make sure that they understand what they are getting. A lot of people will think Room EQ is Room EQ and most of those people don't care enough about the sound to even care. Most of them will be so enamored with ATMOS, they probably won't even care. But, for the ones that want to know the real facts, I try to make sure they get them. There are multiple threads asking about AccuEQ vs Audyssey, is AccuEQ any good, so on and so forth. I just figured I would post that same info in the Onkyo specific threads. Like the 818 thread. A guy was pondering the purchase of an 838 and getting rid of his 818 that has XT32. So I provided the info.

As I mentioned, I have purchased Onkyo exclusively for two decades, and I will never buy another one unless they bring back XT32 or find software that can produce equivalent results for a reasonable price.

To answer your question, no, I have not used one of the new AVRs and there is no need for me too. The facts are right in front of me in black and white. Before I ever saw any graphs, I knew it would be garbage. You can't have successful room equalization when you measure from one position and ignore the front main speakers.

If you don't agree, by all means, go purchase one. But don't say I didn't warn you.

If you have interest in one, I highly recommend that you listen to an XT32 setup in your home first if any way possible and then demo one with AccuEQ. I can pretty much guarantee that you will choose XT32.

There are members here that don't like the sound that Audyssey gives them. For those members, Obviously it's a moot point. I think the ratio of those that don't like it to those that do is very lopsided for the ones that do, but to each their own. The bottom line is, do you like the sound it gives YOU? If so, they are great options.

BTW, I have heard Pioneer's version (MCACC?) and Yamaha's version and think they are both severely lacking compared to XT32 and they are similar to what AccuEQ does.
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post #9 of 16 Old 07-29-2014, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
Hostile? No. Extremely disappointed? Yes! I just want to make sure that people understand they are getting an extremely sub par device if they purchase a model with AccuEQ. I have purchased Onkyos exclusively for 2 decades and recommended them highly to friends. I have had every version of Audyssey up to XT32. XT32 is simply staggering at the corrections it can make. It literally makes some setups sound like they have upgraded the equipment. Every person I know that has used it has been extremely impressed with the results as well. Going forward, I won't have a system without it or something that gives equivalent results (if that happens).

I see a lot of posts from people asking questions about stuff that has been discussed ad nauseum in multiple threads, so obviously some posters don't read a lot of the forum. I'm just trying to make sure that they understand what they are getting. A lot of people will think Room EQ is Room EQ and most of those people don't care enough about the sound to even care. Most of them will be so enamored with ATMOS, they probably won't even care. But, for the ones that want to know the real facts, I try to make sure they get them. There are multiple threads asking about AccuEQ vs Audyssey, is AccuEQ any good, so on and so forth. I just figured I would post that same info in the Onkyo specific threads. Like the 818 thread. A guy was pondering the purchase of an 838 and getting rid of his 818 that has XT32. So I provided the info.

As I mentioned, I have purchased Onkyo exclusively for two decades, and I will never buy another one unless they bring back XT32 or find software that can produce equivalent results for a reasonable price.

To answer your question, no, I have not used one of the new AVRs and there is no need for me too. The facts are right in front of me in black and white. Before I ever saw any graphs, I knew it would be garbage. You can't have successful room equalization when you measure from and ignore the front main speakers.

If you don't agree, by all means, go purchase one. But don't say I didn't warn you.

If you have interest in one, I highly recommend that you listen to an XT32 setup in your home first if any way possible and then demo one with AccuEQ. I can pretty much guarantee that you will choose XT32.

There are members here that don't like the sound that Audyssey gives them. For those members, Obviously it's a moot point. I think the ratio of those that don't like it to those that do is very lopsided for the ones that do, but to each their own. The bottom line is, do you like the sound it gives YOU? If so, they are great options.

BTW, I have heard Pioneer's version (MCACC?) and Yamaha's version and think they are both severely lacking compared to XT32 and they are similar to what AccuEQ does.
The fact that you have never used it, yet you really have a strong negative dislike, why so ? I would blame marketing, not AccuEQ for this. I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just pointing nothing has been proven.
If only one position is tested, it must really be the best seat in the room, reserved for the one who doesn't want his/her sound watered down. Ignore the front main speakers, may be the best part, I love the way my mains sound, thats why I bought them, I found that Audyssey changed the tone for the worse, I could of just gotten cheaper speakers if I wanted that type of sound. Don't get me wrong, Audyssey does a great job, but I found needs alot of tweeking till I'm happy, but thats just maybe me, as I'm very picky about the way my system sounds. I see a good blind test here, I'm sure it will be happening very shorty by someone who really cares OR maybe not as it would not be easy after giving it some thought.

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post #10 of 16 Old 07-29-2014, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joehonest View Post
The fact that you have never used it, yet you really have a strong negative dislike, why so ? I would blame marketing, not AccuEQ for this. I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just pointing nothing has been proven.
If only one position is tested, it must really be the best seat in the room, reserved for the one who doesn't want his/her sound watered down. Ignore the front main speakers, may be the best part, I love the way my mains sound, thats why I bought them, I found that Audyssey changed the tone for the worse, I could of just gotten cheaper speakers if I wanted that type of sound. Don't get me wrong, Audyssey does a great job, but I found needs alot of tweeking till I'm happy, but thats just maybe me, as I'm very picky about the way my system sounds. I see a good blind test here, I'm sure it will be happening very shorty by someone who really cares OR maybe not as it would not be easy after giving it some thought.

Nothing has been proven? Did you not check the link with the comparisons between the two?

See, for you, it probably won't matter and you can tune it the way that you want and get the sound that you want. For guys like fatbottom, it's a completely moot point as he doesn't like any EQ.

There definitely is no "one size fits all" as everyone's rooms are different, their supporting equipment is different and their sound preference is completely different. Luckily, there are lots of choices out there to accommodate our needs/wants. Unfortunately, Onkyo does not supply that option for those of us that do like the corrections that XT32 does to our systems.

For the record, I was never really impressed with what the lower versions of Audyssey did. They made subtle improvements, but it was never like "Wow, that's impressive", until I used XT32. YMMV

One thing that I did discover about room EQ over the years, especially if it's the first time you have had it, is that your ears grow accustomed to a certain sound that you have tweaked and tuned for a while to get it just right. Then you run Audyssey and think "hmmm, sounds a little flat to me", because you are used to the sound of the peaks and nulls in your frequency response that the uncorrected sound provided. If you give it a day or two, you realize what you have been missing. It's just like when people get their TV calibrated after they are used to the torch mode settings with the color cranked through the roof. Initially, it looks dull and flat, but after a day or two, you realize the depth and accuracy is exponentially better and more realistic.

I will state that Audyssey sets the subs to low and they need to be brought up a couple dbs.

The key factor here, is the sound that "you" like. You could run REW and see that your FR is practically ruler flat and just not care for that sound at all.
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post #11 of 16 Old 07-29-2014, 01:25 PM
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Preference or reference thats what the Audyssey people always say. Luckly with my onkyo (3007) I can change tone settings on the fly for all speakers and subs with all modes of Audyssey active. I find I use it alot, I never seen other avrs with that. Denon lets you change all speaker levels on the fly which I thought would be more useful at first, but it turned out it wasn't for me. Audyssey does have all the bells and whistles which is needed to find what sounds good for that moment, AccuEQ seems not to be as flexible, which I see as a weakness. For that reason having used Audyssey and experienced the need to tweak, thus not being able to tweak and choose from many settings would scare off most experienced Audyssey users from using anything less flexible,,, on paper...

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post #12 of 16 Old 07-29-2014, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joehonest View Post
Preference or reference thats what the Audyssey people always say. Luckly with my onkyo (3007) I can change tone settings on the fly for all speakers and subs with all modes of Audyssey active. I find I use it alot, I never seen other avrs with that. Denon lets you change all speaker levels on the fly which I thought would be more useful at first, but it turned out it wasn't for me. Audyssey does have all the bells and whistles which is needed to find what sounds good for that moment, AccuEQ seems not to be as flexible, which I see as a weakness. For that reason having used Audyssey and experienced the need to tweak, thus not being able to tweak and choose from many settings would scare off most experienced Audyssey users from using anything less flexible,,, on paper...

I'll have to remember that saying. I like it! It's always nice to have the flexibility to tailor things to the way you like them (preference ).
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post #13 of 16 Old 07-29-2014, 05:39 PM
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I was using Audyssey XT32 Onkyo pre-amp, then switched to running Dirac on my PC and disabled Audyssey on my pre-amp. If you're going to bypass it anyway, it doesn't matter if it's Audyssey or AccuEQ.
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post #14 of 16 Old 07-29-2014, 07:59 PM
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AccuEQ is actually the proprietary, royalty-free room EQ scheme from TI..
Due to shrinking profit margins in AVRs and increasing royalty payments to Audyssey, Onkyo cut the cord...
AccuEQ does the basics to satisfy most, if one thinks/believes Audyssey no biggee..

Just my $0.03...
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post #15 of 16 Old 08-08-2014, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joehonest View Post
Going by the graphs it looks like AccuEQ did the job, it matched all the speakers. It would only be a real compare if they ran Audyssey with the same speakers in the same room. Highend rolloff, a soft sounding center and a hot sub is not uncommon with Audyssey. Maybe if the mains were brighter, the graphs would of been flater. Really not much to go by. The movie RE-EQ may of been active?

You probably don't care, but I realized that the graphs comparing AccuEQ vs. XT32 were actually an update to the article and were post #16 , so you may have not seen them. When I originally read the article, I didn't pay attention to that fact and I think some people may have missed the update. I know that I usually don't read the comments to articles, but I was looking for the graphs on that one, so I scrolled until I saw them.
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post #16 of 16 Old 08-08-2014, 01:40 PM
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Everything Zeus33 said in his two long posts. Right down to the equipment and length of time.

In fact my last pre-pro was an Integra with Audyssey MultiEQ XT. I kept it in my system for a while for comparisons with my new Onkyo TX-NR929 with XT32. The comparison included a multi-channel amp (to the Integra) that cost more than my 929. So $3500 against my $1200 929. I was aware of the audible differences XT32 was making. I thought the placement of instruments was more exact and the bass was flatter with no flab. I'm sure the 929 doesn't have higher quality components, so when I say it sounded better, I attribute that to XT32.

So while Audyssey was getting better with every iteration, I thought it jumped to excellent with XT32. For those who say, how can you compare it with AccuEQ if you haven't heard it, my attitude is the same as Zeus33, I know enough about it to have a strong opinion, and it ain't good.

Between the company change and financial/reputation hit they took for the HDMI fiasco, they saved considerable monies cutting back in room/speaker eq while saving horespower for the upcoming Atmos upgrades. In fact if there is a 939 or 5030 they probably won't have XT32 and that crowd might not buy in. It's what swayed me toward the 929.

Nobody makes a perfect speaker and no one has a perfect room. So why wouldn't you want the best circuitry you can afford to deal with the anomalies? I've had both Meridian and GoldenEar speakers in a not so great room with clearly audible improvements to both from XT32.

Of course you can turn EQ off at your own peril like Fatbottom, but you should take his opinion with a grain of salt.

When I'm ready for Atmos, I hope Onkyo/Integra have the money to spend on chip horsepower for XT32 EQ or better and Atmos/other.

I'm hoping AccuSTUFF is a stop gap measure.

Patrick
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