SP/DIF still OK ? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By Kenwc
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 Old 08-08-2014, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Kenwc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
SP/DIF still OK ?

The Onkyo NR808 died last week, no sound, not that old. It's sitting on the workbench looking lonely.

Anyhow, an excuse to get new gear. One of the important features I want is HDMI passthrough. With this in mind, I ordered a Denon S900W. Hooked up the Cox Cable Contour box and the Samsung LN52B750 TV to the Denon via brand new RedMere HDMI cables. Well, the passthrough feature works about 90% of the time. When it fails, picture but no sound. Turn the Denon on and off, all is well. Unfortunately, 90% ain't 100% so the Denon gets returned and I get a Yamaha 677. Guess what, same problem. And back goes the Yamaha. Yes, I tried numerous settings on both receivers, even read the manuals. The fact that passthrough works most of the time indicates, at least to me, the settings are OK, the technology is flawed,

Now I'm thinking of going back to just using SP/DIF from the Contour, the Oppo 93, and the Xbox 360 into whatever receiver I get. Run the HDMI from the above directly into the TV bypassing the receiver completely.

So, finally the question. Do I lose any audio capabilities with SP/DIF verses HDMI audio?

And, maybe, I should try and get the Onkyo repaired ?

Thanks, Ken C
Kenwc is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 08-08-2014, 08:27 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MichaelJHuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 18,845
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 196 Post(s)
Liked: 106
HDMI supports lossless audio. S/PDIF does not

"But this one goes up to 11"
MichaelJHuman is online now  
post #3 of 14 Old 08-08-2014, 08:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
KidHorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Derwood, Maryland
Posts: 2,889
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 189 Post(s)
Liked: 201
In theory HDMI can sound better. In practice, you probably won't be able to tell much difference.


It sounds like the problem may be with your cable box and/or TV. The handshaking seems flaky. Does it work all the time if you go straight from the cable box to the TV?
KidHorn is offline  
post #4 of 14 Old 08-08-2014, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Kenwc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
100% with direct connection between the cable box and TV. I would agree it's a flaky handshake, curious only sound is disrupted. Ain't HDCP great !!

As I listen mostly to Bluray and cable TV, will I lose much not having lossless audio (FLAC) ?

Ken C
Kenwc is offline  
post #5 of 14 Old 08-08-2014, 10:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
BIslander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,550
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked: 130
Cable TV only does DD 5.1, so no issue there.

Lossless on Blu-ray is TrueHD and dts-MA. While S/PDIF doesn't support those codecs, the player will send high bitrate lossy versions that rival lossless in quality.

So, you likely won't lose any audio quality using S/PDIF instead of HDMI.
BIslander is online now  
post #6 of 14 Old 08-08-2014, 10:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
KidHorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Derwood, Maryland
Posts: 2,889
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 189 Post(s)
Liked: 201
I used to have Comcast and the tech who set everything was not allowed to run hdmi through a receiver to the TV. Instead, he was required to run hdmi straight to the tv and toslink to the receiver. He said there were too many problems running hdmi through the receiver. Of course, he couldn't control what I did after he left, but it turns out he was right. Running hdmi through the receiver was unworkable. It wasn't that big a deal. It's just switching sources required pushing buttons on my TV remove and receiver instead of just the receiver. My PS3 ran HDMI through the receiver and worked fine. Fine, until my crappy Onkyo HDMI ports failed like they do with every Onkyo receiver.


Since then I switched to FIOS and everything works fine. Maybe switching providers or getting a new cable box is an option.
KidHorn is offline  
post #7 of 14 Old 08-08-2014, 01:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
M Code's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Joshua Tree, CA
Posts: 9,901
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post
HDMI supports lossless audio. S/PDIF does not
S/PDIF can handle lossless audio such as a PCM stream, but only in stereo..
But not a multi-channel stream such as a Dolby or DTS due to bandwidth issues..

Just my $0.03...
M Code is offline  
post #8 of 14 Old 08-08-2014, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Kenwc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Oh no, just switched from Directv to cable, don't want to go thru that again ! Plus,afaik, no other providers in this area.

Just sent an email to Onkyo, we'll see if they will help. The Onkyo will do everything I need If it isn't super expensive to repair maybe that's the way to go. Sure would like one of the new receivers though.

Looks like I can live with S/PDIF, that's what the Onkyo was using.

One wonders how the manufacturer's tested the HDMI passthrough function ? Reading the forums, seems to be a common problem with a bunch of receivers.

Regarding TrueHD and dts-MA, the Oppo 93 has two HDMI outputs, I'll send one directly to the TV for video and the second to the receiver for audio. Gets a bit complicated but should work. Why didn't I think of this before ? My head is about to explode !

Ken C
Kenwc is offline  
post #9 of 14 Old 08-08-2014, 01:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
M Code's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Joshua Tree, CA
Posts: 9,901
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenwc View Post
100% with direct connection between the cable box and TV. I would agree it's a flaky handshake, curious only sound is disrupted. Ain't HDCP great !!

As I listen mostly to Bluray and cable TV, will I lose much not having lossless audio (FLAC) ?

Ken C
Your mentioned HDMI problems with the cable box and Samsung display, is that neither are HDMI certified....
Without this pertinent certification the units have not passed the industry's component interoperability testing. Not having this certification it is a crap shoot whether or not things work rite through HDMI and CEC. Thats why in our AV install biz we will not sell/use/install any Samsung products including displays and blue-ray players.

Just my $0.03..
M Code is offline  
post #10 of 14 Old 08-08-2014, 01:48 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 14,381
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 747 Post(s)
Liked: 1161
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post
I used to have Comcast and the tech who set everything was not allowed to run hdmi through a receiver to the TV. Instead, he was required to run hdmi straight to the tv and toslink to the receiver. He said there were too many problems running hdmi through the receiver. Of course, he couldn't control what I did after he left, but it turns out he was right. Running hdmi through the receiver was unworkable. It wasn't that big a deal. It's just switching sources required pushing buttons on my TV remove and receiver instead of just the receiver. My PS3 ran HDMI through the receiver and worked fine. Fine, until my crappy Onkyo HDMI ports failed like they do with every Onkyo receiver.


Since then I switched to FIOS and everything works fine. Maybe switching providers or getting a new cable box is an option.

No doubt the new cable box. Technically speaking the various providers provide signals that meet the same standards, and only the cable box knows anything about HDMI one way or the other.
arnyk is offline  
post #11 of 14 Old 08-08-2014, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Kenwc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post
Your mentioned HDMI problems with the cable box and Samsung display, is that neither are HDMI certified....
Without this pertinent certification the units have not passed the industry's component interoperability testing. Not having this certification it is a crap shoot whether or not things work rite through HDMI and CEC. Thats why in our AV install biz we will not sell/use/install any Samsung products including displays and blue-ray players.

Just my $0.03..
Well, that answers most of the questions abt the passthru problems. You would think if the manufacturer's are using the HDMI logo they should meet the standards. Oh well, I will stay with S/PDIF. Thanks for the info.

Ken C
Kenwc is offline  
post #12 of 14 Old 08-11-2014, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Kenwc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
All of the above is moot as Onkyo will repair the unit under a one-time "extended" warranty. Good for them standing behind their products. A new receiver would be fun but saving $600+ is even better. And, hopefully in a few years, when I do upgrade, Onkyo will be in the mix.

Thanks, Ken C
matcartier likes this.
Kenwc is offline  
post #13 of 14 Old 09-11-2014, 06:08 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Kenwc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Well, the saga has ended.

Onkyo did send a prepaid box to return the TX-NR808 for repair. The receiver was turned around in a little over 2 weeks, so far, so good.

After everything was connected, turned the receiver on and "ta da", we have sound ! Went through the setup, made sure all the assignable inputs were correct, did the Audyssey thing, checked the firmware, all looks ok.

Popped in a Bluray and realized something was not right. All I'm getting is 2 channel stereo. Not good. Checked a few things and discovered if the BD player's HDMI cable was disconnected from the Onkyo, the receiver would use the s/pdif connection. And, using this connection, the receiver produced Dolby D 5.1 audio.

Contacted Onkyo support via email and over the course of a week or so tried various combinations to no avail, HDMI audio yields 2 channel stereo no matter what.

I have three sources for digital audio, an Oppo 93 BD player, a Cox Contour cable box, and a Xbox 360. Dolby D via s/pdif, 2 channel stereo via HDMI in all cases.

So, yes, Onkyo fixed the no- sound problem, but (IMO) used a defective HDMI board.

Onkyo did not offer to correct this new problem.

Needless to say, Onkyo products will not be on my "buy" list.

And, we were SO close ...
Kenwc is offline  
post #14 of 14 Old 09-11-2014, 06:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
fatbottom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 3,782
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 413 Post(s)
Liked: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post
HDMI supports lossless audio. S/PDIF does not
2 channel PCM over SPDIF?

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

fatbottom is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors
Gear in this thread

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off