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post #1 of 18 Old 08-10-2014, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Yamaha Avantage 2030 "SEEKING" 2 Channel Sound Quality??

Hi Guys,
I'm new to the forum. I apologies if this is not in the right place.
8 months ago I replaced a 14 year old RXV 995 with a RX 2030. I listen to music (jazz to rock) in 2 channel 80% of the time. From day one the 2 channel sound sound just hasn't been "present/true/clear." I have changed speakers. Tried Cantons, Monitor Audio and now back to Jamo 7.7 fronts with matching sub and dipolar rears. These are the best sound achieved, so far, however about 7 out of 10 as clear and true as the old amp. The audio guys have been to my place and truly have given me the run around at my cost for 8 months. I have had Yamaha on the phone for hours adjusting settings, minimally, saying I should be getting great sound on pure direct, and then saying its the speakers and their positioning or try Bi Amping??? I said to them everything sounded great until the new amp came along.
The home audio guys are now saying I should have purchased a Marantz 5008 coupled up with a PM 8005 integrated amp to get the sound I expect. My problem is my old AVR sounded great and cost heaps less.
Would anyone have any ideas that may help get clearer presence in the sound please? Thanks in advance...
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post #2 of 18 Old 08-10-2014, 07:53 PM
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Very odd, by the looks of it, the 995 is nothing special.

Yamaha seems to have high quality amps, and a high quality DSP section so it's hard to say what it wrong

If you have tried pure direct, doesn't seem like it could be room correction. Pure direct turns off bass management which seems to eliminate that issue. I admit I am mystified, and wish I had some good suggestion but it seems like you have tried everything

Personally never heard a loss in quality switching Yamaha models and I have been through many

I guess you could try a different brand, like Denon

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #3 of 18 Old 08-11-2014, 08:11 AM
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I've got an RX-V990 that sounds great in 2-channel mode and, like you, I also listen to music more than surround sound movies.

This site has been rather useless in trying to get info on a replacement receiver that will satisfy. Most of the threads in this particular forum are fanboy threads for a specific model or line and are so long as to be un-navagable . I asked a similar question as yours and got a couple replies and a blatant sales pitch.

For now, I'm not going to change out my receiver. One would think it would be a fairly easy thing to sort out (which AV receiver/s is/are known for their ability to provide satisfying 2-channel performance. I've wondered about a two box solution too but all I've gotten was either confused info from internet posters or sales blather from people who just want to sell something.

Are you able to get any in-home auditions of gear? For me, if I were to buy a new receiver, it would have to be returnable and the first thing I'd do is hook it up to my L/R speaker and connect a source or two to check its 2-channer performance. Only after it passed muster would I connect up the rest to see how it worked as an AVR.

Home Theater: Yamaha RX-V990, Onkyo C-S5VL, Technics, SL-QL1, Celestion DL-8 Series II L/R, NHT center and rears

2-channel living room : Marantz PM8004, Marantz CD6004, Denon DP-23F, NHT SuperOnes

2-channel office: Marantz PM6004, NHT SuperOnes, internet radio fed by iPad Air
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post #4 of 18 Old 08-13-2014, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you both for your input.
I am going to try bi amping tonight and will let you know the outcome.
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post #5 of 18 Old 08-13-2014, 10:49 PM
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Get a stereo integrated amplifier bypass the Yamaha alltogether.

HiFi is where it's at.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

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post #6 of 18 Old 08-14-2014, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Bi amping hasn't made a difference that I can really notice. Speaking with Yamaha, yesterday, they are suggesting to put a A-S700 integrated amp in to couple up and get clearer sound to the front 2 channels.And of course that adds another $1000 to the journey of $2000 cost of the Avantage 2030! I haven't heard the A-S700. Any thoughts guys?
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post #7 of 18 Old 08-14-2014, 05:33 PM
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I have an ancient Yamaha 1070 avr. Internal amps sound thin. Added a crown x1000 pro amo for 2 channel music and wow!!! Massive improvement in sq, dynamics, and detail. All for $99.
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post #8 of 18 Old 08-14-2014, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Sound View Post
Bi amping hasn't made a difference that I can really notice. Speaking with Yamaha, yesterday, they are suggesting to put a A-S700 integrated amp in to couple up and get clearer sound to the front 2 channels.And of course that adds another $1000 to the journey of $2000 cost of the Avantage 2030! I haven't heard the A-S700. Any thoughts guys?
I have no idea what a NAD T758 would cost but it would seem to be less than the Aventage series from Yamaha. However they are known for their sound "quality" being better than most. Try a NAD at home, with your room and speakers. It's almost a given if it sounds very good in two channel, then surround is a breeze for any of them. Good luck and hope you get the sound you want.


The Nad T758 in Australia.

http://www.qualifi.com.au/index.php?...art&Itemid=712

NADT748V2

is $899 at same place
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Last edited by phantom52; 08-14-2014 at 09:02 PM.
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post #9 of 18 Old 08-15-2014, 11:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post
I have no idea what a NAD T758 would cost but it would seem to be less than the Aventage series from Yamaha. However they are known for their sound "quality" being better than most. Try a NAD at home, with your room and speakers. It's almost a given if it sounds very good in two channel, then surround is a breeze for any of them. Good luck and hope you get the sound you want.


The Nad T758 in Australia.

http://www.qualifi.com.au/index.php?...art&Itemid=712

NADT748V2

is $899 at same place
Thanks guys, Phantom52, Unfortunately the web site you found the NAD prices on has gone missing. T758 price is $1600 here at the moment. Its an interesting journey.
Aydu's your option using the Crown PA is interesting as well. The Crown xls100 are $480 here.
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post #10 of 18 Old 08-16-2014, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
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Thanks guys, Phantom52, Unfortunately the web site you found the NAD prices on has gone missing. T758 price is $1600 here at the moment. Its an interesting journey.
Aydu's your option using the Crown PA is interesting as well. The Crown xls100 are $480 here.
if the dealer you found will let you try that T758 at home I think you will like it very much. The power from the NAD is actual power with all speakers driven. Not like that with most others.
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post #11 of 18 Old 08-17-2014, 05:32 AM
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if the dealer you found will let you try that T758 at home I think you will like it very much. The power from the NAD is actual power with all speakers driven. Not like that with most others.
There is now a thread on Emotiva's SR8100. The price here is $549. No idea what the cost is to ship to Australia. It may be one to give a good look.

Sherbourn sr-8100 A/V receiver


https://emotiva.com/products/emotiva/receivers-0
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post #12 of 18 Old 08-17-2014, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Sound View Post
8 months ago I replaced a 14 year old RXV 995 with a RX 2030. I listen to music (jazz to rock) in 2 channel 80% of the time. From day one the 2 channel sound sound just hasn't been "present/true/clear."
The 2030 is tricky to set up. Do you listen to music using 2.0 or 2.1? Have you run the ypao mic software? Compared through (pure direct) with flat and natural eq? Do they sound different from each other? Have you measured/verified how smooth/flat the room eq is at the sweet spot position? All receivers need this answered really. But the 2030 has powerful digital manual parametric eq on all channels that most brands don't have. Using them is a must to get the best sound out of top shelf Yamaha. Pure direct is no eq. For bass that is never best. Eq the room somehow. Cheaper than buying other equipment on the island. It has clean sound. Yes a little under powered. But not in 2 channel mode. Plenty of power. Especially 2.1. I always use that for music.
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post #13 of 18 Old 08-17-2014, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kikkenit2 View Post
The 2030 is tricky to set up. Do you listen to music using 2.0 or 2.1? Have you run the ypao mic software? Compared through (pure direct) with flat and natural eq? Do they sound different from each other? Have you measured/verified how smooth/flat the room eq is at the sweet spot position? All receivers need this answered really. But the 2030 has powerful digital manual parametric eq on all channels that most brands don't have. Using them is a must to get the best sound out of top shelf Yamaha. Pure direct is no eq. For bass that is never best. Eq the room somehow. Cheaper than buying other equipment on the island. It has clean sound. Yes a little under powered. But not in 2 channel mode. Plenty of power. Especially 2.1. I always use that for music.
Thanks guys, I will have a look at the eq set up and 2.1. I have done the mic ypao set up. Ill let you know the outcome.
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post #14 of 18 Old 08-17-2014, 02:38 PM
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when using the manual parametric eq, yamaha shows the curve in use (the one made in automatic by ypao) or needs to use a pc and rew software for example to know how is looking the graphic ?
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post #15 of 18 Old 08-17-2014, 03:08 PM
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Using the rew software will only measure anywhere you want with full range audio sweeps that
create accurate and easy to read graphs that show how loud each frequency is actually happening
at the ears. The receiver kind of does the same thing in the manual speaker/parametric eq menu.
Good luck making any sense of the Yamaha graph. REW example. One line with eq is much flatter
in the bass range (20-80hz) than the other. This is with eq on and the other is through (off).

Yamaha allows you to start a manual eq graph from scratch or better yet copy the flat or natural
curve into the manual area and edit as you like. The subwoofer has a 4 band eq with variable
frequencies, levels and q factor (width). Very powerful. And a 7 band eq for the main 5 or 7 speakers.

That is all besides what the auto eq does. Another thing. Ypao is trying to eq all 5.1 speakers at the
same time. Only playing 2.0 will require a different eq. You need the usb mic plugged into the laptop
and rew installed and soundcard configured properly. You can then measure just the towers or all
speakers at same time or subwoofer only. You probably want to custom eq just the mains alone for music.

This accurate measurement can be used to verify the best crossover setting, which towers play more
consistent tones, best speaker and subwoofer position, toe in and effects of room treatments! Always
try to eq the room to smooth and go from there. Yamaha has two patterns that can be saved. That would
work perfectly for you. Generate a flat eq plot for surround sound and another for two channel stereo.
This is all found in the manual speaker setup menus. Only Yamaha 2030 and above has all this ability.
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post #16 of 18 Old 08-17-2014, 03:46 PM
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You look at that graph and neither line is very flat. Ypao is nothing great.
None of them are perfect. That is why you need to use the manual eq.
Auto eq doesn't cut it. Eq the bass first but frequencies above that do matter.

Last edited by kikkenit2; 08-17-2014 at 03:52 PM.
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post #17 of 18 Old 08-17-2014, 08:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey Mr K2! I have got the YPAO eq on flat and man WOW what an amazing difference! I'm listening to the Eagles Hell Freezes Over CD and actually hearing "The Whole Band."(And so is the rest of the neighbourhood-lucky its lunch time on Monday) Im going to attempt adjusting the manual eq as you have suggested - I'm just not sure what to do first, register for a Uni degree in sound engineering or buy a six pack? Probably the later. Thank you so much for your help....I just can't believe the relief after 8 months. I'll figure out the way the graphs need to be set on manual eq and let you know how I go.
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post #18 of 18 Old 08-18-2014, 08:31 AM
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Great. Yes measuring the room is tedious and complicated. But it really works. Always average several mic positions
when tuning eq. The Yamaha graphs are weak and the manual even worse. It barely covers the parametric eq.
The "Official" Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A1030, RX-A2030, RX-A3030 and CX-A5000/MX-A5000 Thread
The official thread of your receiver. And the 2014 model thread. Very similar performance/operation.
The "Official" Yamaha RX-A1040, RX-A2040 and RX-A3040 AVENTAGE AVR Thread
And this guy is the #1 guru on everything yamaha. kriktsemaj99. Look for his posts about eq etc.
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