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post #121 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
It isn't.

I found it interesting that my TV will pass DTS and DD audio from a DVD as multi channel via optical, but a Bluray with the HD version of DD and DTS will pass though only as a 2 channel downmix via optical.

Not sure about the total ATSC rules and options, but standard milti-channel ATSC DD works fine via optical.
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post #122 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post
I found it interesting that my TV will pass DTS and DD audio from a DVD as multi channel via optical, but a Bluray with the HD version of DD and DTS will pass though only as a 2 channel downmix via optical.

Not sure about the total ATSC rules and options, but standard milti-channel ATSC DD works fine via optical.
I'm sorry, what does any of this have to do with Atmos?
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post #123 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Human nature. People don't like others having more than they have. So it's not enough to not have Atmos, they have to persuade others to not have it either.
Human nature is to defend ones own purchases and proclivities.

If Dolby excludes AH, then that says something about their confidence in their product.

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post #124 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
If Dolby excludes AH, then that says something about their confidence in their product.
Excluding pests from a picnic has nothing to do with confidence.
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post #125 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 12:54 PM
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Greetings,

This past week I had the opportunity to see what Dolby Atmos had to offer on both the commercial and home theater fronts. Having heard Atmos in a commercial environment beforehand I had a good idea what to expect in that regard. The setup at Dolby's facility in NY City allowed the opportunity to listen to the same material played back first in the commercial setting then in a smaller home theater setting.

Of course my interest was predominantly to hear what both the Dolby Atmos enabled speakers and overhead ceiling mounted speakers had to offer. Listening to prototype bookshelf sized Dolby Atmos enabled speakers located front and rear provided a discernible level of 360 degree immersion but not to the degree that I found when listening to the overhead ceiling mounted speakers. I couldn't help but feel that part of this was setup related especially in light of the comments that I have heard from those in the field that have been impressed by the Dolby Atmos enabled speakers.

DOA? I don't believe that will be the case. I agree with Marc (FilmMixer) the ability to implement object based data for specification presents near limitless possibilities. I liked what I heard and my feelings at the moment are that there is enough potential in Dolby Atmos to warrant an upgrade in my situation. As it stands right now I would look to implement it via ceiling mounted speakers. I plan on trying to get another listen to Dolby Atmos enabled speakers and see if things plays out any differently. Where things go after that will be determined by what I hear.


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post #126 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
And the Atmos system does not "throw in a dozen ceiling speakers" Inaccurate posts like this do not further the conversation.
Sure, but disinformation like that is what is they have to resort to in order to scare people from considering Atmos. That fact that only 2 height speakers are needed as a start is not something they want repeated.
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post #127 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post
FilmMixer & sdurani's recent posts since I last posted are spot on. I share their viewpoints. Well done!

Whatever clarification or damage control Gene does, he's kind of brought it on himself with their obvious bias before even experiencing, testing & evaluating it for themselves.

Example - the snide remarks about 3-4" top drivers, not knowing about or ignoring the psycho-acoustic tricks with FR & special bass management being done so that these speakers do work as intended. He & his crew's semi-ridicule only shows 1) bias and 2) confirms they don't know it all.

It's not surprising he didn't get an invite from Dolby.
Gene said it before; he's on a mission, to "suscitate" (create) new passionate discussions/interactions in order to attract intelligent (?) attention in its dying forums.
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post #128 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 01:18 PM
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So much negativity! What amazes me is that many people express opinion before even experiencing the ATMOS in a home theater!
kt10r and kamouflage like this.

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post #129 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post
So much negativity! What amazes me is that many people express opinion before even experiencing the ATMOS in a home theater!
That's the trend at AVS Forum lately.

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post #130 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Excluding pests from a picnic has nothing to do with confidence.
your rapier wit is showing again, sanjay

the poster's comment idea that a company not extending a favor to someone ridiculing their product being lack of confidence - that shows a bit of naivety about business & human nature.

it's one thing to try to win over a skeptic...that's salesmanship. But AH took it past the point of being a skeptic. they've used words like "silly" and "stupid" in discussing home Atmos and the speakers.

if Dolby has limited number of opportunities to invite press & reviewers, human nature & business being what it is, then they probably want to extend invites to reviewers & press who are objective & open minded, even if they are somewhat skeptical.

from a business & people standpoint Dolby & CE mfgs have not much to gain inviting an openly prejudiced dissident.

Gene screwed himself. IF he had kept his mouth, keyboard & video cam shut after his 1st Atmos rumor article, then he probably could be sitting in on demos, shown how Atmos & speakers work in a typical room, maybe lined up review samples and been able to objectively comment on the experiences, good or bad. And no one could have taken AH to task for it. As it turns out, he's got to wait like the rest of us to try it out.

Since most of the major AVR mfgs are going with Atmos, what AH thinks is irrelevant.

Contrast Gene & AH's approach to Scott Wilkinson, who is gracious & a good host to all the industry insiders when he does interviews. I'd bet he doesn't always agree with certain things or may have differing viewpoints. But it's his job to be open-minded & fair, and if he does hear/see something "negative", he's honest. Example, his & Tom Norton's comment about some "congested" sound at a demo. But I can't imagine Dolby, Pioneer, Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha, or any other company not inviting Scott Wilkinson.
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post #131 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post
So much negativity! What amazes me is that many people express opinion before even experiencing the ATMOS in a home theater!
you've also noticed. unfortunate, isn't it.
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post #132 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 02:10 PM
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Excellent post, ss9001. This really comes off as sounding like sour grapes on the part of Audioholics. They didn't get invited so publish(as it were) a hatchet piece. Using words like "stupid" and "silly" border on unprofessional and remind me of a "review" they published a couple of years ago on the HSU VTF-15H sub. It was a nitpicking review that took issue with such things as the name they chose for the color of the sub. I'm not kidding. The reviewer didn't like the way the gain knob felt, on and on it went. It turned out that the reviewer had previous dealings with HSU Research that turned him against the company and years later he got his chance to get even(I just looked for this review and they took it down, leaving only the supplemental review in which they defend themselves). That's what this "opinion" piece on Dolby Atmos feels like.
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post #133 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by cosymoon View Post
It should have been done long ago when C++ was invented (or long before that). Atmos would make more sense for a large theatre situation, not home.
I think you are confusing object oriented programming (in the context of software development) with object based surround sound.

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post #134 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
That's the trend at AVS Forum lately.
Lately?


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post #135 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post
if Dolby has limited number of opportunities to invite press & reviewers, human nature & business being what it is, then they probably want to extend invites to reviewers & press who are objective & open minded, even if they are somewhat skeptical.

Let's be accurate, the early invites were pro-Atmos,


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post #136 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 02:28 PM
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This document is for Roger Dressler: http://file:///C:/Users/Robert/Downl...8316000000.pdf

* If he is interested of course (some great stuff in there).

EDIT: I think the file is much too large.

Bests, ~ Robert § (Bob)

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post #137 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
Let's be accurate, the earl invites were pro-Atmos,


- Rich
and your point being? like I said, human nature & the real world side of any business.

if you think it works otherwise, you aren't living on planet earth with 7 billion fellow human beings

if what you say is indeed true, I don't see anything nefarious about it...it's business & sales 101. sell the easiest ones first, then work on the hard ones I've been in technical sales for much of my career; I could call on companies & facilities that would have a 10-20 % chance of closure in 10 yrs or I can focus more on ones that I had a 30-50% chance of closing.

if you aren't in the business world, marketing, sales, technical sales, advertising, then maybe you don't know as much about the real world of sales & business marketing.

I'd personally much prefer to do a sales campaign on a prospect who was open-minded than I would one who hated my company. And yes, I have had those experiences, and the chance to sell a corporate engineer who was screwed by your company years ago is slim to none.

this is why I can see why Gene wasn't invited...it's obvious! Don't blame Dolby for acting in its own interests, the blame is on the attitude of Audioholics & Mr Gene.

be realistic, Rich
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post #138 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
Let's be accurate, the earl invites were pro-Atmos,
Not at the presser here in Burbank. Based on the questions they were asking, most of the reporters barely knew what Atmos was. They were open-minded rather than pro-Atmos.

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post #139 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by hidefpaul View Post
First off, let me just say that I would like very much to be able to implement this Dolby Atmos system in my own existing 5.1 set up. However some of the reasons outlined in this article from Audioholics really summed it all up for me. Here are their top 5 reasons cited in the article.

The article goes into a brief explanation of each.

1) Atmos simply doesn't have enough Wow!
2) The only people that will buy Atmos speakers won't know what to do with them
3) You didn't buy height/width speakers but you'll hang them on your ceiling?
4) The speakers are stupid (refering to the top mount drivers)
5) It costs too much.

Here is the link http://www.audioholics.com/audio-tec...y-atmos-is-doa

I don't know how many people here truly feel regarding the advent of Dolby's Atmos system, but from reading this and other forums I believe the consensus is that it will not succeed.

Thoughts

Paul
I hate to be negative, I think it's a great idea, but you can't get anyone to do 5.1 and if so it's incorrectly set up to start with.
Most buy the bars anyway due to lack of education. I hope it makes it through, at least in theaters, that I will not go to anymore due to plain old rudeness and disrespect for others.
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post #140 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Not at the presser here in Burbank. Based on the questions they were asking, most of the reporters barely knew what Atmos was. They were open-minded rather than pro-Atmos.
there you have it.

for the record, I am not anti-Audioholics. On the contrary, I've learned a lot from many of their articles, read lots of the reviews and generally like & use the site for quality information. In addition to AVSForum, I usually check Audioholics every day.

I just think they stepped in it on this issue for jumping the gun (or shark )

Steve

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post #141 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by quad4.0 View Post
I hate to be negative, I think it's a great idea, but you can't get anyone to do 5.1 and if so it's incorrectly set up to start with.
you must mean everyone not anyone
which word makes an astronomical difference
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post #142 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Potts View Post
Greetings,

This past week I had the opportunity to see what Dolby Atmos had to offer on both the commercial and home theater fronts. Having heard Atmos in a commercial environment beforehand I had a good idea what to expect in that regard. The setup at Dolby's facility in NY City allowed the opportunity to listen to the same material played back first in the commercial setting then in a smaller home theater setting.

Of course my interest was predominantly to hear what both the Dolby Atmos enabled speakers and overhead ceiling mounted speakers had to offer. Listening to prototype bookshelf sized Dolby Atmos enabled speakers located front and rear provided a discernible level of 360 degree immersion but not to the degree that I found when listening to the overhead ceiling mounted speakers. I couldn't help but feel that part of this was setup related especially in light of the comments that I have hard from those in the field that have been impressed by the Dolby Atmos enabled speakers.

DOA? I don't believe that will be the case. I agree with Marc (FilmMixer) the ability to implement object based data for specification presents near limitless possibilities. I liked what I heard and my feelings at the moment are that there is enough potential in Dolby Atmos to warrant an upgrade in my situation. As it stands right now I would look to implement it via ceiling mounted speakers. I plan on trying to get another listen to Dolby Atmos enabled speakers and see if their plays out any differently. Where things go after that will be determined by what I hear.


Regards,
Good to know Ralph, thx for your input.

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post #143 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 03:48 PM
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Well, Scott Wilkerson just posted his observations here: Dolby Demos Atmos for Cinema and Home and it really seems like an objective review with some conscientious afterthoughts.
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post #144 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
I'm sorry, what does any of this have to do with Atmos?
I guess nothing, since Atmos encodes will only work with Bluray Atmos encoded content and some streaming services. That leaves out 99.9 % of the content sources that I use. Atmos is not compatible with cable or off air digital, and perhaps it is not even compatible with my internet television.


http://blog.dolby.com/2014/06/dolby-...ions-answered/
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Originally Posted by quad4.0 View Post
I hate to be negative, I think it's a great idea, but you can't get anyone to do 5.1 and if so it's incorrectly set up to start with.
Most buy the bars anyway due to lack of education. I hope it makes it through, at least in theaters, that I will not go to anymore due to plain old rudeness and disrespect for others.
My brother bought HTIB and he loves it. I suppose he would put the ceiling channels in had they fit.


Your point is well taken though, my rears are full range but are more like surround backs.
My ceiling is the definition of non-Atmos friendly: ceiling fan, beams, and skylights
The center channel is probably too high.


I might undertake the project at some point, but I would prefer more advancements in Object oriented sound that would permit customization to suit my room.


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post #146 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Human nature. People don't like others having more than they have. So it's not enough to not have Atmos, they have to persuade others to not have it either.

That is the laugh of the century. No one really cares what others do with their money.

I will not be buying an Atmos AVR at this point in time, but I do hope and expect that you to buy the first batch of a first generation Atmos AVR!
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Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post
and your point being? like I said, human nature & the real world side of any business.

if you think it works otherwise, you aren't living on planet earth with 7 billion fellow human beings

if what you say is indeed true, I don't see anything nefarious about it...it's business & sales 101. sell the easiest ones first, then work on the hard ones I've been in technical sales for much of my career; I could call on companies & facilities that would have a 10-20 % chance of closure in 10 yrs or I can focus more on ones that I had a 30-50% chance of closing.

if you aren't in the business world, marketing, sales, technical sales, advertising, then maybe you don't know as much about the real world of sales & business marketing.

I'd personally much prefer to do a sales campaign on a prospect who was open-minded than I would one who hated my company. And yes, I have had those experiences, and the chance to sell a corporate engineer who was screwed by your company years ago is slim to none.

this is why I can see why Gene wasn't invited...it's obvious! Don't blame Dolby for acting in its own interests, the blame is on the attitude of Audioholics & Mr Gene.

be realistic, Rich

My point is that it is good business to invite those who will be receptive. There is nothing wrong with that and there is nothing wrong with understanding it either.


The word chosen was "Accurate" which is not a negative or pejorative term, unlike "open minded".


There are reasonable scientific reasons to have concerns about up firing speakers. Andrew Johnson was "surprised" at how well they worked. The man knows a lot about speakers... As of yet, I have not had the experience so I am not surprised.
When Magnolia has a demo room, I'll be there.


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post #148 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 04:42 PM
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SO they have no processing to steer the sounds to the ceiling speakers like they did with the Front Heights and PLIIz? PLIIz is supposed to work with existing 2.0, 5.1, and 7.1 tracks. So the DOlby Atmos speaker setup won't work at all with existing content? IS that true?

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post #149 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post
I guess nothing, since Atmos encodes will only work with Bluray Atmos encoded content and some streaming services. That leaves out 99.9 % of the content sources that I use. Atmos is not compatible with cable or off air digital, and perhaps it is not even compatible with my internet television.


http://blog.dolby.com/2014/06/dolby-...ions-answered/
So you don't use BR for a source?

You mentioned how you pass BR through your TV to your AVR via optical..

Just how old is your AVR?

Regardless...

I'm not sure why the commentary... nobody except you has made a mention about the lack of Atmos delivery on a 20 year old lossy encoding stream...

And it won't be compatible with an internet TV...

It's like saying "well I want to have the latest and greatest tech, but expect it for free over my legacy connections..."
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post #150 of 209 Old 08-16-2014, 04:44 PM
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SO they have no processing to steer the sounds to the ceiling speakers like they did with the Front Heights and PLIIz? PLIIz is supposed to work with existing 2.0, 5.1, and 7.1 tracks. So the DOlby Atmos speaker setup won't work at all with existing content? IS that true?
Completely not true...

With non-Atmos encoded content, Dolby has created a new umpiring technology called "Dolby Surround"... it will take 2.0 and greater content and mix it to whatever you have setup for Atmos, the minimum requirement being 5.1.2

Where did you get that idea?

Last edited by FilmMixer; 08-16-2014 at 04:48 PM.
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