Costco's Yamaha RX-V775BT or Denon x2000? - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 23 Old 08-20-2014, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Costco's Yamaha RX-V775BT or Denon x2000?

Looking to buy a receiver for 5.1 (possible 7.1) family room set up ( 60% TV/40% Music). I had pretty much decided on the Denon x2000 ($399), but saw a Yamaha RX-V775BT ($490) at Costco yesterday. I called Yamaha and they said that Costco bought a bunch of RX-V775 units and they replaced the WA adapter with the BT adapter to make it exclusive. I will have my receiver wired via Ethernet, so will that Bluetooth adapter be that much of a 'con' as compared with the wifi adapter. I understand the Denon x2000 doesn't have wifi, so is the extra $90 for the Yamaha worth it? Are they fairly equal units?
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post #2 of 23 Old 08-20-2014, 09:54 AM
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Ethernet is better more reliable into receiver than wifi. And Bluetooth is super simple. Good call by Costco and decent price.
The 775 will do 5.1 main zone + 2.0 zone2(patio, kitchen etc.) with usb and network inputs. Digital inputs both zones with party mode.
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post #3 of 23 Old 08-20-2014, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kikkenit2 View Post
Ethernet is better more reliable into receiver than wifi. And Bluetooth is super simple. Good call by Costco and decent price.
The 775 will do 5.1 main zone + 2.0 zone2(patio, kitchen etc.) with usb and network inputs. Digital inputs both zones with party mode.
Mhl for smartphone video streaming through hdmi. Manual parametric eq on all main channels. Better hdmi handshake compatibility.
Don't understand most of this yet, so when a receiver says it has 'airplay', do you need either wifi or bluetooth to use your iphone or ipad to control receiver?
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post #4 of 23 Old 08-20-2014, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by tommyncal View Post
Don't understand most of this yet, so when a receiver says it has 'airplay', do you need either wifi or bluetooth to use your iphone or ipad to control receiver?
Airplay integration means you can stream your iTunes library straight to the receiver. This would also apply to the music library on your iPhone or iPad.
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post #5 of 23 Old 08-20-2014, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by tommyncal View Post
Don't understand most of this yet, so when a receiver says it has 'airplay', do you need either wifi or bluetooth to use your iphone or ipad to control receiver?
The receiver needs ethernet or wifi. The smartphone or tablet need wifi to the same network. I use a windows 8.1 laptop with airplay inside iTunes software to play my huge mp3 library. Better sound than Bluetooth but not as simple/convenient. If no network use a usb memory stick. Again very clean sound with no cutting out. Use a tablet/smartphone to control receiver from anywhere. I was pointing out several things that the denon doesn't do. $90 buys a lot. Bluetooth and all that mentioned.

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post #6 of 23 Old 08-20-2014, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
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The receiver needs ethernet or wifi. The smartphone or tablet need wifi to the same network. I use a windows 8.1 laptop with airplay inside iTunes software to play my huge mp3 library. Better sound than Bluetooth but not as simple/convenient. If no network use a usb memory stick. Again very clean sound with no cutting out. Use a tablet/smartphone to control receiver from anywhere. I was pointing out several things that the denon doesn't do. $90 buys a lot. Bluetooth and all that mentioned.
Let me see if I understand this correctly. I have a windows 8.1 desktop with iTunes. Not sure if airplay is inside iTunes on the desktop. If my receiver, either the Denon or Yamaha, is hooked up via Ethernet, then I could play my music library from iTunes. Correct? With the Yamaha, I could control what to play, through the Bluetooth, from my iPhone or iPad. Correct? With the Denon, I couldn't control what to play with my iPhone or iPad because it has no wifi, right?
In either of the above to instances the sound quality will be the same since it is being carried via Ethernet, correct? The iPhone/iPad is only controlling the songs you play and such ?
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post #7 of 23 Old 08-20-2014, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyncal View Post
Let me see if I understand this correctly. I have a windows 8.1 desktop with iTunes. Not sure if airplay is inside iTunes on the desktop. If my receiver, either the Denon or Yamaha, is hooked up via Ethernet, then I could play my music library from iTunes. Correct? With the Yamaha, I could control what to play, through the Bluetooth, from my iPhone or iPad. Correct? With the Denon, I couldn't control what to play with my iPhone or iPad because it has no wifi, right?
In either of the above to instances the sound quality will be the same since it is being carried via Ethernet, correct? The iPhone/iPad is only controlling the songs you play and such ?
You need to have your PC, tablet, phone, AVR etc on the same network wired or wireless. For Airplay you can stream whatever is on your airplay device, computer, phone, tablet. You can stream whatever is on your BT device. You can stream via BT directly to the BT equipped AVR whether it's on the network or not. I'm not sure if your BT device can be used as a remote for your PC though. It can't for sure if your PC doesn't have BT. My iMac has BT but I've never tried it.

Your network can be a combination of wired and wireless. I use an Apple Airport extreme and have my Apple TV and PS3 hard wired and stream from my iMac and iPhone wireless.

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post #8 of 23 Old 08-21-2014, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
You need to have your PC, tablet, phone, AVR etc on the same network wired or wireless. For Airplay you can stream whatever is on your airplay device, computer, phone, tablet. You can stream whatever is on your BT device. You can stream via BT directly to the BT equipped AVR whether it's on the network or not. I'm not sure if your BT device can be used as a remote for your PC though. It can't for sure if your PC doesn't have BT. My iMac has BT but I've never tried it.

Your network can be a combination of wired and wireless. I use an Apple Airport extreme and have my Apple TV and PS3 hard wired and stream from my iMac and iPhone wireless.
That's great, thanks. I have an Airport extreme, wired into my windows 8.1 computer, that I can hard wire into the reveiver and use with my iPhone/iPad. I probably wouldn't use the bluetooth adapter if I choose the Yamaha. So, I have 2 similar receivers, x2000 and RX-V775, with a $90 price difference. The Yamaha can do a 5.1 Main zone + a 2.0 Zone 2 ? Separate sources? And the Denon can't? Is the audio quality and movie quality similar?
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post #9 of 23 Old 08-21-2014, 10:26 AM
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Bluetooth is convenient for streaming music and doesn't use the network/internet, but is usually lower quality sound. Avoid.
Assuming any brand receiver is connected to the network airplay with iTunes etc.and network streaming with bubbleupnp app
on android smartphones works. Wireless receiver remote control apps will control the receiver from zone2 etc. with networked
devices. Internet access adds internet radio, Pandora, Spotify etc. to all zones.

Audio quality will be similar. Most receivers when set up properly sound amazing. And these are pretty much the two best brands.
Yamaha is more reliable. Tons of denon failures around here lately. Even the x2000. Yamaha very few. Onkyo is the worst.
The Denon does have a few features like more adjustable crossovers and maybe slightly better auto room eq. but not much.
To get good auto eq (xt32) and full preamp out the x4000 is where to go. That is above the 775. The x3000 nothing special.

Last edited by kikkenit2; 08-21-2014 at 11:05 AM.
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post #10 of 23 Old 08-21-2014, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyncal View Post
That's great, thanks. I have an Airport extreme, wired into my windows 8.1 computer, that I can hard wire into the reveiver and use with my iPhone/iPad. I probably wouldn't use the bluetooth adapter if I choose the Yamaha. So, I have 2 similar receivers, x2000 and RX-V775, with a $90 price difference. The Yamaha can do a 5.1 Main zone + a 2.0 Zone 2 ? Separate sources? And the Denon can't? Is the audio quality and movie quality similar?
My only issue with Yamaha is their insistence on using a single global crossover, eg all speakers are set to the same crossover to the sub whether or not that the speakers have different capabilities. Many systems use much smaller speakers for surrounds. So if those speakers can only play down to 100 or 120hz you need to set the crossover at that for best results even if your mains can play well at 80-hz or lower.

You need to go up to the 2040 and 3040 Yamahas to do away with this silly limitation. For that reason I would personally get the Denon since I don't run all the same speakers.

Audyssey XT is probably better for most rooms than the YPAO that comes on that level Yamaha. The Denon will apply an EQ to the sub, the Yamaha will not.

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post #11 of 23 Old 08-21-2014, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
My only issue with Yamaha is their insistence on using a single global crossover, eg all speakers are set to the same crossover to the sub whether or not that the speakers have different capabilities. Many systems use much smaller speakers for surrounds. So if those speakers can only play down to 100 or 120hz you need to set the crossover at that for best results even if your mains can play well at 80-hz or lower.

You need to go up to the 2040 and 3040 Yamahas to do away with this silly limitation. For that reason I would personally get the Denon since I don't run all the same speakers.

Audyssey XT is probably better for most rooms than the YPAO that comes on that level Yamaha. The Denon will apply an EQ to the sub, the Yamaha will not.
Hmmm, so people with different size speakers and a Yamaha receiver they have to adjust manually or set 1 crossover? Initially, I plan on having a 3.1 setup with all the same L/C/R speakers.
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post #12 of 23 Old 08-21-2014, 11:04 AM
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Hmmm, so people with different size speakers and a Yamaha receiver they have to adjust manually or set 1 crossover? Initially, I plan on having a 3.1 setup with all the same L/C/R speakers.
You can't manually change the crossover independently. Yamaha and Pioneer take a one size fits all approach, at least in their low to mid range models.

If you're running all the same speakers then it doesn't matter.

I run my mains as large, my center crossed at 100hz and my surrounds at 120hz. It may not be typical but in my room I like how it sounds this way.

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post #13 of 23 Old 08-21-2014, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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You can't manually change the crossover independently. Yamaha and Pioneer take a one size fits all approach, at least in their low to mid range models.

If you're running all the same speakers then it doesn't matter.

I run my mains as large, my center crossed at 100hz and my surrounds at 120hz. It may not be typical but in my room I like how it sounds this way.
You must not have a Yamaha receiver then, correct? If I bought the Yamaha receiver. then I would have to set my mains and center to the same crossover? And, later if I buy 2 rear speakers, they would have to be set to that same crossover point, correct?
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post #14 of 23 Old 08-21-2014, 11:12 AM
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Hmmm, so people with different size speakers and a Yamaha receiver they have to adjust manually or set 1 crossover? Initially, I plan on having a 3.1 setup with all the same L/C/R speakers.
When I mentioned adjustable crossover that means front tower xover at 60hz, center speaker xover at 80hz and small satellite surrounds xover set to 100hz. Yamaha should be offering that feature at this level. When speaker size/type is matched closely like you this isn't so critical. Generally pick 80hz. Now room eq. That always needs some action. Good subwoofer eq starts at a few levels up.
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post #15 of 23 Old 08-21-2014, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by tommyncal View Post
You must not have a Yamaha receiver then, correct? If I bought the Yamaha receiver. then I would have to set my mains and center to the same crossover? And, later if I buy 2 rear speakers, they would have to be set to that same crossover point, correct?
Yes. I could probably run my speakers with a single crossover and still have it sound great but I don't want to be restricted to doing that.

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post #16 of 23 Old 08-21-2014, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes. I could probably run my speakers with a single crossover and still have it sound great but I don't want to be restricted to doing that.
Thanks for the explanation, decisions . . . decisions . With all the Yamaha and Pioneer lower end receivers sold, there must be a lot of people dealing with this same issue.
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post #17 of 23 Old 08-21-2014, 11:57 AM
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I find the use of a global crossover a non-factor. Detecting the surround and/or center speakers outputting undesirable sounds between 80 and 100hz is not easy.
Most people tend to match those 5 speakers instead of large and small and don't need selectable xover for each speaker.
Most importantly it has no effect when listening to music in 2.0 or 2.1. Surrounds and center are not used.
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post #18 of 23 Old 08-21-2014, 12:58 PM
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The Yamaha can do a 5.1 Main zone + a 2.0 Zone 2 ? Separate sources? And the Denon can't?
Either one can do 5.1 main zone and stereo zone 2 with separate sources...

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post #19 of 23 Old 08-21-2014, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by kikkenit2 View Post
I find the use of a global crossover a non-factor. Detecting the surround and/or center speakers outputting undesirable sounds between 80 and 100hz is not easy.
Most people tend to match those 5 speakers instead of large and small and don't need selectable xover for each speaker.
Most importantly it has no effect when listening to music in 2.0 or 2.1. Surrounds and center are not used.
It's not a non-factor. Most surround speakers can't reach down to 80hz. Many are good to maybe 120hz. Set a global crossover so your surrounds aren't getting 80hz content and it can gimp the fronts and you might end up with sub localization issues using a 100 or 120hz crossover.

Set the crossover to 80z and you lose that content in the surrounds and possibly the center that the speaker just cannot play.

It's a lame "feature" especially for Yamaha whose high end AVRs don't use it. Even the least expensive Sony, Denon, Onkyo, HK and other AVRs have individual crossovers.

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post #20 of 23 Old 08-21-2014, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
It's not a non-factor. Most surround speakers can't reach down to 80hz. Many are good to maybe 120hz. Set a global crossover so your surrounds aren't getting 80hz content and it can gimp the fronts and you might end up with sub localization issues using a 100 or 120hz crossover.
Set the crossover to 80z and you lose that content in the surrounds and possibly the center that the speaker just cannot play.
It's a lame "feature" especially for Yamaha whose high end AVRs don't use it. Even the least expensive Sony, Denon, Onkyo, HK and other AVRs have individual crossovers.
The high end yamaha models have discrete crossover for each channel. I originally called it adjustable instead of non-global maybe.
I didn't say it was worthless. I said for the op and me it is a non-factor. All my speakers play flat to 50hz so 80hz crossover works fine for me.
Just that raw setting plays smooth in my room. Why don't I use satellites. I don't want to compromise when I attempt to play the
cleanest lossless multi-channel music, lossless movie surround sound, dolby digital 5.1 or all channel stereo. To each his own.

Yamaha may even want to force global crossovers at lower levels because that can make setup much more complicated.
Keep it simple philosophy. Onkyo is the only brand brave enough to offer active high/mid adjustable crossovers.
Doing crossovers wrong can damage speakers. I do own some satellites with 4" mids. I run them as a full 5.1 kit with 120hz crossover.
I call them my Bose killers. 1" tweeter etc. Can't compete with my bookshelf/centers with dual 6.5" or 8" mids though.

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post #21 of 23 Old 08-21-2014, 03:07 PM
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I had always heard that Yamaha's global crossover 'feature' was intended to 'avoid' the phenomenon of surround pan direction reversal, which can occur if the SL|SR and RL|RR speaker pairs are configured with different bass redirection cross-over values:

For example: when a sound object with content both (1) above the higher of the two crossover values, and (2) between the lower and higher crossover values is panned around the room clockwise thru the FR - SR - RR - RL - SL - FL speakers, the component of the sound above the higher crossover travels in the intended direction, however, the content between the two crossover values may appear to perform a combination of jumps between speakers or even to travel in a counterclockwise direction.
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post #22 of 23 Old 08-21-2014, 05:57 PM - Thread Starter
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And I thought I could just plug a pair of speakers in and be done with it. In my case though, this 'crossover' doesn't seem to be an issue since my L/C/R speakers (probably the Arx A3rx-c) will be the same. I assume both of these receivers are powerful enough, features seem very similar, a extra year warranty with the Denon and easy returns with Costco (if needed).
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post #23 of 23 Old 09-11-2014, 03:31 PM
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I'm in the same boat as you! i saw the costco RX-V775 for $489 and it looks like a pretty good deal to me. I've had the Rx-V673 for over 2yrs now and its been a beast and if i didn't HAVE to leave it back home it would've come with me. I didn't see the Denon at Costco they just had the Yamaha (489) and the Sony (399). You decide on one yet? good thing with costco, if the price drops in the next 3 months, includes black friday now only 77 days away, you can just return the receiver :-)
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