Is There Such a Thing? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 08-24-2014, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Is There Such a Thing?

Does anyone make what would be best referred to as an "integrated amp" for home theater use? In other words, a receiver without the tuner? Or is this strictly relegated to the two-channel domain?


I realize that a pre/pro would be a suitable alternative, as these don't have built-in tuners, but this require a separate amp as well and I was wondering if there was an "all in one box" solution I may have glossed over somewhere...I don't think there is, but figured I'd ask...


Anyone know?

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post #2 of 14 Old 08-24-2014, 04:51 PM
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What the problem with having a tuner? If you don't need it, don't use it. Having the tuner in there doesn't cut down on performance.

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post #3 of 14 Old 08-24-2014, 05:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
What the problem with having a tuner? If you don't need it, don't use it. Having the tuner in there doesn't cut down on performance.

No "problem" per se; was just wondering if there was such an option as to think of the piece as more "seriously minded," leaving just the processing and amplification platforms in the chassis...just like for strictly home theater usage...I supposed there wasn't but was just curious, and of course I realize I could go with a pre/pro which would be a unit without a tuner...

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post #4 of 14 Old 08-24-2014, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
Having the tuner in there doesn't cut down on performance.

Also, with regard to this -- I have been told, and have read countless times, that the exact opposite is actually true (well, mostly from "extreme audiophile" types)...that the reason someone shouldn't go with, say, a stereo receiver for a two-channel/hi fi setup is because elements like the tuner "interfere" with performance that would otherwise not be a "problem" with an integrated amp...


Of course, I wasn't one of those who followed that logic, as I purchased a two-channel stereo receiver (Onkyo's awesome TX-8555, now discontinued) for my dedicated two-channel setup, but I'm just reporting what I had heard and read with regard to your tuner comment...

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post #5 of 14 Old 08-24-2014, 05:29 PM
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Yamaha used to have a lineup without tuner in the previous decade, the DSP-line. Basically as same as the RX-line, without the built-in AM/FM tuner of course.

BD-A1010/CD-S1000/PF60
HTR-6290/A-S1000/KDL46V5100
NS-555/SOAVO-900C/NS-125F

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post #6 of 14 Old 08-24-2014, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuenMuner View Post
Yamaha used to have a lineup without tuner in the previous decade, the DSP-line. Basically as same as the RX-line, without the built-in AM/FM tuner of course.

Thanks for the info, Tuen; I didn't even know this!


So it was really an "integrated home theater" amp?

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post #7 of 14 Old 08-24-2014, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh yes, I see:


http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio...3090_black__u/


Indeed, these were "home cinema amplifiers" and would be precisely what I was referring to; shame they dropped them...


I see you're a Yammie fan, and I'm an Onkyo fan so it's too bad Onkyo doesn't make anything like this...


Still, like Frog said, there's really no "harm" in having a tuner there; I suppose if I had to have a tuner-less chassis, I could go the pre/pro and amp route...

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post #8 of 14 Old 08-24-2014, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
Thanks for the info, Tuen; I didn't even know this!


So it was really an "integrated home theater" amp?
Yep, even the flagship(DSP-Z9, Z7, Z11) had the "integrated amp" treatment.

BD-A1010/CD-S1000/PF60
HTR-6290/A-S1000/KDL46V5100
NS-555/SOAVO-900C/NS-125F

BD - 242
HD - 7
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post #9 of 14 Old 08-24-2014, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TuenMuner View Post
Yep, even the flagship(DSP-Z9, Z7, Z11) had the "integrated amp" treatment.

I see; well, I suppose this concept gave way to the "Audio/Video Receiver" approach and that's what we have today, along with separate preamp/processors...


Do you also feel that having a radio/tuner built into the chassis doesn't really "hurt" or "harm" anything, or rob performance?

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post #10 of 14 Old 08-24-2014, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
Do you also feel that having a radio/tuner built into the chassis doesn't really "hurt" or "harm" anything, or rob performance?
I don't think it does anything to steal performances to be honest. But for something that I would never use, I definitely don't mind to buy a tuner-less AV receiver. (Mind you, I do have a true hi-fi int amp, the A-S1000)

BD-A1010/CD-S1000/PF60
HTR-6290/A-S1000/KDL46V5100
NS-555/SOAVO-900C/NS-125F

BD - 242
HD - 7
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post #11 of 14 Old 08-24-2014, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuenMuner View Post
I don't think it does anything to steal performances to be honest. But for something that I would never use, I definitely don't mind to buy a tuner-less AV receiver.

That's precisely the way I feel too and what I was trying to get at with regard to wanting more of an "integrated home theater amp;" in my 5.1 room, we never really listen to the tuner of our Onkyo (605) AVR so down there I wanted more of a "cut and dry" amp approach to the system...upstairs, in our two-channel room, I'm running a stereo receiver, of which we use the tuner on a daily basis and actually more than the CD input...


Which brings me to this:


Quote:
(Mind you, I do have a true hi-fi int amp, the A-S1000)

I, too, wanted a true integrated for our two-channel setup, the Onkyo A-9555, but we simply couldn't afford it at the time so we ended up with the TX-8555 stereo receiver which, to be honest, sounds just like a good integrated with a tuner section; truth be told, it was a better move I guess because we use the tuner, as I said, constantly in this system and would have had to buy a separate tuner for this system if I got the integrated...

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post #12 of 14 Old 08-25-2014, 05:53 AM
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I was just about to ask the same question. So if an amp has the tuner built it in it wife/kid friendly? Will they have to remember to change inputs? That is my concern as that is one of my issues now.

I'm currently using a Samsung HT in a box and one of its many problems is it will change inputs around if you don't power the TV on first which the wife and kids always foget which results in me having to power on and off everything to get them back in sync.

The Samsung also has a number of other problems so I'm going to build a pc to replace it and just need something to drive speakers off the pc's sound card.
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post #13 of 14 Old 08-25-2014, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
Also, with regard to this -- I have been told, and have read countless times, that the exact opposite is actually true (well, mostly from "extreme audiophile" types)...that the reason someone shouldn't go with, say, a stereo receiver for a two-channel/hi fi setup is because elements like the tuner "interfere" with performance that would otherwise not be a "problem" with an integrated amp...
At this time the tuner portion of a receiver is a fairly small shielded box that probably costs a few dollars to make, maximum. The miniaturization and decosting of AM and FM tuners has been pretty extreme while performance has actually improved. A modern FM stereo tuner is largely implemented in the digital domain on a single ca. $1 chip that has performance that is close to theoretical maximums. The RF and audio performance of these chips is competitive with or surpasses legendary tuners of the past including the McIntosh MR78 and Marantz 10B.

Back in the day, the tuner portions of receivers had space and power utilization that equaled or surpassed the whole rest of the receiver, output stages excluded. Their complexity generally surpassed the entire balance of the receiver. So what used to be true is no longer true.
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post #14 of 14 Old 08-25-2014, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Arny.

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