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The official Auro 3D thread (home theater version)

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#1 · (Edited)
As wished by many in the Atmos forum I want to open a new thread regarding Auro 3D home theater version. Here the link to the Auro-3D homepage.
I would like to discuss here Auro specific questions like speaker setup and - layout as well as updating each other on technical Auro news like announcements of new processors and receivers.
AFAIK there are only three companies with Auro products which are announced or on the market:

Datasat with their processors LS10 and RS20i which are both on the market

Trinnov Audio with the processor Altitude 32 announced

Stormaudio with the amlifier integrated Auriga and their announced processors SSP12 and SSP16

Hopefully new processors and receivers with more market friendly prices will be announced soon!

I am especially inviting the Datasat owners to join this thread as their are the only ones who already have Auro compability and their knowledge is very important for this thread.

Please feel free to post links to videos, documents or other postings on other threads to gradually collect knowledge on Auro and make it available for everyone!

DECEMBER UPDATE

In the meantime Denon Auro upgrade and Marantz Auro upgrade

Affected are Denon X4100, X5200 and X7200 as well as Marantz SR7009. AV7702 and AV8802
 
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#2 ·
As wished by many in the Atmos forum I want to open a new thread regarding Auro 3D home theater version. Here the link to the Auro-3D homepage.
I would like to discuss here Auro specific questions like speaker setup and - layout as well as updating each other on technical Auro news like announcements of new processors and receivers.
AFAIK there are only three companies with Auro products which are announced or on the market:

Datasat with their processors LS10 and RS20i which are both on the market

Trinnov Audio with the processor Altitude 32 announced

Stormaudio with the amlifier integrated Auriga and their announced processors SSP12 and SSP16

Hopefully new processors and receivers with more market friendly prices will be announced soon!

I am especially inviting the Datasat owners to join this thread as their are the only ones who already have Auro compability and their knowledge is very important for this thread.

Please feel free to post links to videos, documents or other postings on other threads to gradually collect knowledge on Auro and make it available for everyone!
What's the minimum cost for home. I've heard it's very pricey. Are these more for a home theater set up or is it practical for my living room.
 
#3 ·
From the point of speakers is not more costly then Atmos. You basically need as a minimum setup a 5.1 bed and above L, R, SL and SR one height speaker.
Problem is that the processors are still very expensive (starting from around $10k). Nevertheless I assume that within the next weeks / months more reasonably equipment will be available! I don't think that the codec can survive for long, if they won't have products on the mass market.
 
#4 ·
It has been rumoured to be appearing on Denon and Marantz receivers in due course, and this had been mentioned by Auro last year. If that does happen then Auro will appear in more reasonably priced kit.

I have Auro in my Datasat RS20i already, but my room is still mid-refurb, so I'm not in a position to perform any testing at the minute in my own room. I have heard it several times in a dealer/friends room however, and the upmixer is nothing short of incredible.
 
#5 ·
I was told that the hardware would have to be different and that a firmware update alone would not do it?
 
#9 ·
Check out this press release from January:

http://www.auro-3d.com/press/2014/01/press-release-auro-technologies-to-premiere-auro-3d-sound-in-an-unrivaled-package-for-the-home-entertainment-car-and-mobile-platforms/

Auro Technologies’ official partners have earned a widespread reputation for offering the highest quality sound reproduction available in home cinema, gaming, automotive and mobile platforms. Some of Auro Technologies’ official partners include: Audiokinetic, California Audio Technology (CAT), Continental, Datasat Digital Entertainment, Denon & Marantz, McIntosh Laboratory, Steinway Lyngdorf (SL Audio) and StormAudio.
 
#12 ·
Auro themselve told me last Saturday on the IFA that there will be announcements soon on better priced equipment. He couldn't go more into detail but said to wait with the final purchase until these announcements were done.
With D&M I think the problem could be the amount of channels to have Auro and Atmos on board with the current (announced) Atmos models!
 
#14 · (Edited)
I think one of the biggest difference in the strategy of Dolby and Auro is, for Dolby is quantity that counts so the more units are labelled Dolby Atmos the better, even if they feature only two height channels which Dolby excplictly said won't bring a threedimensional sound field whilst for Auro is really quality so they make sure that units that have Auro on board will fulfill certain criteria.

That is why we most likely won't see any $499 receiver with Auro in the near future!
 
#16 ·
are we talking about an Auro in the price range of $2,500 to $3,000 by maybe this time next year??? I'll be ready to upgrade my livingroom AVR by then if it's more then that count me out. Then I'll upgrade to Atmos 7.2.4 out in my Living room.
 
#18 · (Edited)
"We need thebland " too chime in, hey Jeff where are you.
He just got the datastat processor and installed in his home theater of the month
right here on AVS.
Regarding Auro I'm in when they come out with a denon/marantz model that will do both formats. Guess I'll be transferring my brand new denon 5200 to the den,
have'nt even listened to a real Atmos yet on it.





PeterV
 
#26 ·
Auro upmixing is a major improvement over 7.1, PL IIz, Neo X upmixing. As I scroll through modes, the Auro is far superior. If ATMOS upmixing is as good, you'll be very happy. All else seems flat comparatively.

The Datasat gives a scale range of 1-15 for amount of aggressiveness or envelopment plus you can input the room 'size' for even more (or less) effect (Small, Medium, Large, Voice). I chose 'medium' and 6/15 on Auro envelopment.
 
#20 ·
I wonder in a blended Auro/Atmos home theater if the following speaker configuration would work as a compromise in speaker location that would potentially work well with both formats:

1)start with a 5.1 or 7.1 system (I have 7.1)

2)add two in-ceiling speakers toward the front of the room to serve above the main front L/R existing speakers. These in ceiling speakers would act as both Atmos "front" ceiling speakers and Auro front L/R height channels

3)add three in-ceiling speakers roughly in line with the traditional L/R surround channels and of the three in ceiling speakers use the L/R ceiling speaker as both Atmos "middle" ceiling speakers and use the Center ceiling speaker only for Auro VOG (not turned on for Atmos)

With this configuration you have a 7.1.4 Atmos setup and 7.1.5 set-up for Auro (I think in Auro terminology this would just be 11.1)?
 
#25 ·
I do think the general idea is quite good but you should think of sone aspects.

1) Fine
2) without knowing your room dimensions and distance between screen and MLP this is hard to answer, but within my setup if complying to the Dolby angles my front top would be in the middle between MLP and screen. If you calculated the angle between top front and MLP and you are within the 30deg range this sounds fibe to me, but if not the speakers could be a little bit too far away for Atmos
3) Again this sounds good for Auro, but AFAIK Atmos does not support top middle and top front, but onky top rear and top front. So it might be that the speakers are a little bit too close to you. I think for Atmos sound you could face the problem that tge speakers above you are too dominant and the three dimensioal sound above your head wouldn't unfold

Anyway I do think that this setup esoecially for Auro is only possible if you are able to aim the speaker. I explicitly asked Auro for the use of the Jamo IC608 LCR and they replied that this would be accetable. Tge 608LCR is a three way speaker of which middle and height speaker can be aimed. I would try a similar design. (Except for VOG).

As I mentioned before is a similar design but I want to install one pair in the back fulfilling top rear for Atmos and rear height for Auro, one speaker pair in the middle between screen and MLP being top front for Atmos and maybe VOG for Auro and three speakers in the front. L and R being front height for Auro and maybe front height for Atmos if it works. Last one will be the center height for Auro onnly. All seven speakers will be LCRs from Jamo.
 
#22 ·
Subscribed, in deed . . .
 
#29 · (Edited)
One major problem I see with "wide acceptance" of Auro-3D is that the minimum Auro-3D speaker configuration today is 9.1 (5.1.4 in Dolby parlance) which provides 'full channel-to-speaker mapping' for 8.0|9.1 Auro-3D source material. What would appear to be missing is an "Auro-3D 5.1.2" playback speaker configuration which would allow use of 7.1 AVRs...?!

Absent such an adaptation, we are still left with the issue of establishing a dual-use speaker configuration for future Atmos+Auro-3D AVRs. The classical 9.1 Auro-3D speaker configuration is:





In the second Auro Technologies graphic, the "invisible" Height Center speaker (midway between the Height Left and Height Right speakers shown) would seem to be definitively placed at a +30° elevation. I'm under the impression that this setup is consistent with an Atmos 5.1.4 configuration using Front Height and Rear Height on-wall speaker pairs.


_
 

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#33 ·
One major problem I see with "wide acceptance" of Auro-3D is that the minimum Auro-3D speaker configuration today is 9.1 (5.1.4 in Dolby parlance) which provides 'full channel-to-speaker mapping' for 8.0|9.1 Auro-3D source material. What would appear to be missing is an "Auro-3D 5.1.2" playback speaker configuration which would allow use of 7.1 AVRs...?!
The main reason being is that the 5.1.2 setup does NOT create a three dimensional sound field with a hemisphere of speakers/sound around the MLP, it purely adds height to the front soundstage, and I can only guess has been included in the initial Dolby spec to capture those people already with Neo:X/PLIIz setups - one of many moves by Dolby to try and gain mass adoption, at the detriment of of the objective the tech was originally designed for.


Absent such an adaptation, we are still left with the issue of establishing a dual-use speaker configuration for future Atmos+Auro-3D AVRs. The classical 9.1 Auro-3D speaker configuration

In the second Auro Technologies graphic, the "invisible" Height Center speaker (midway between the Height Left and Height Right speakers shown) would seem to be definitively placed at a +30° elevation. I'm under the impression that this setup is consistent with an Atmos 5.1.4 configuration using Front Height and Rear Height on-wall speaker pairs.


_
Agreed, I think, in a room if normal ceing height, 5.1.4 translates very well to Auro 9.1 (5.1 bed) or 11.1 (7.1 bed).
 
#38 ·
My understanding is that when there are only two overhead speakers, the optional placement is directly over the MLP, with the speakers designated Top Middle. When sounds are overhead, I could imagine Atmos using the front and rear ear-level speakers to provide some directional information. When a sound is from the front and overhead, for example, Atmos might provide most of the sound from the appropriate overhead speaker plus a little from the appropriate Front Main ear-level speaker. I don't know if this actually is the case, though.
 
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#44 ·
This is what Dolb states in their White Paper:

Dolby recommends installation of four Dolby Atmos enabled speakers whenever possible. Use of four speakers will make the placement of overhead sounds more accurate, and you’ll get more precise, realistic sounds when an object, such as a helicopter, passes overhead. Two of the speakers (whether they are integrated speakers or add-on modules) should be in the front left and front right speaker locations of your system. The other two should be positioned in the surround sound speaker locations, ideally at the rear surround speakers, if you have them.
 
#46 ·
Does anyone else feel the need to wait for Auro to be added to receivers hopefully next year ? I was all over the 7200, but I feel there is going to be major additions coming next generation gear
 
#48 ·
It depends on whether or not the equipment vendors have included provisions for firmware upgrades to add more audio decoders. The manuals for the 2014 D+M Atmos-capable models describe a firmware "upgrade" option in addition to firmware "update", so one has reason to be optimistic about the addition of decoders. Unfortunately, I haven't seen any official announcement confirming it.
 
#61 ·
Auro in the car

Auro had a 9.1 system installed in a Jeep at CEDIA. Much like their demo in the High Performance Audio room, it was quite impressive. Lots of spaciousness and ATMOSphere. First production models will be available in 2015 from a German car maker, others have signed up. Upmixing will be part of the head unit's Auro feature set so any music source will benefit.

I had a long talk with the Auro rep who was responsible for both auto and consumer AVR Auro integration. There should be announcements before Christmas from some of the major players for product that will have both Auro and ATMOS decoders. It was also intimated that next year, most AVR's will have both options. No details on exactly how that will happen but my initial plan to upgrade now to a new Denon receiver has been cancelled. I want the capabilities of both formats and can only afford to upgrade once.
 
#65 ·
I'm not sure if this was answered (a lot to read already in this thread..), but Auro 3D upmixing does support 5.1 with 2 front height, and 7.1 with 2 front height (called 7.1 With Height, and 9.1 With Height respectively). These are standard Auro formats.
 
#81 ·
#93 ·
A very interesting interview with Wilfried van Baelen the inventor of Auro.

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/auro-3d-interview

I think one of the most interesting points he said is: 'There are 3 Auro-3D branded sound processors and many A/V manufacturers will be launching Auro-3D integrated processors by the end of this year as well.'
 
#97 ·
#94 · (Edited)
Hey westmd:

I'm coming from the Atmos thread, where I posted the attached picture as a proposal to build a speaker array that would would work without significant compromise for both Atmos and Auro. For the benefit of anyone else reading, it basically involves putting all height/overhead speakers on rails or unistrut so their positions can easily be changed.

The blue speakers are stationary, and are at ear-level for the traditional 7.1 layout. The red speakers are the overheads in a 9.1.6 Atmos layout, and the green speakers are the overhead speakers repositioned to height locations to create an Auro layout.

I realized after making this drawing and doing some reading that the Auro system does not call for height speakers above the back surround speakers (I don't think so anyway). So those top rears could be repositioned directly to either side of the main seat to create a "dual mono" VOG channel.

I have read westmd's suggestion on how to create a loudspeaker layout that accommodates both standards without moving speakers at all, and which may require an extra set of speakers, resulting in one pair of speakers not being used for each layout. Basically you would not use the Atmos top front speakers when running Auro, and you would not use the Auro front height speakers when running Atmos. The other compromise I see potentially is that the top rear Atmos speakers being used as rear heights in Auro seems like a compromise, since I'm under the impression that they belong above the side surrounds, at a 30 degree elevation.

Anyway, what do you think? Thanks.

Edit: I also noticed that the side surrounds and height are supposed to be at 90 - 110 degrees relative to the center channel. I have them slightly forward of the MLP, perhaps at 80 degrees. Don't know how much that will affect things.
 

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#95 ·
Hi,
have you read the question I send to Auro some posts above? I don't think their system is so fragile that you would have to rearrange speakers!
Nevertheless I would like to give you feedback on your setup proposal but really need some more information in meters or in feet on length, width and height of the room, the position of your MLP and your proposed speaker positions. Also I am counting 9 and not 7 bed speakers!
 
#110 ·
When I was a kid my Daddy had a bathroom with an 8" thick window. ...The house was real solid too, made of real bricks.
My Dad was an engineer in steel construction (bridges, under water bridge supports, mining machinery, giant dippers, etc.).

R.I.P. Dad - I love you
 
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