Pioneer Elite Atmos-Upgradeable AV Receivers at CEDIA 2014 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 57 Old 09-16-2014, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Pioneer Elite Atmos-Upgradeable AV Receivers at CEDIA 2014



At CEDIA 2014, the company introduced three new AVRs incorporating Dolby Atmos capability, including the Elite SC-89 flagship that powered its Atmos demo.

Pioneer is ready for the next wave in immersive audio. There is no doubt that Dolby Atmos was the star of the show among audio formats at CEDIA 2014, and Pioneer came ready to take advantage of the format's debut with a lineup of Atmos-upgradable AVRs. The three new models are the $1600 SC-85, $2000 SC-87 and $3000 SC-89. All three AVRs wear the Elite badge, and offer 9.2 channels of class D amplification. In addition to Atmos capability, a particular highlight of Pioneer's new AVR lineup is the inclusion of 18 Gbps HDMI 2.0 connections that handle 4K60p video with 4:4:4 color.

Pioneer noted that the use of class D amplification was advantageous for Atmos receivers because the format demands full bandwidth from every channel. For example, with all channels driven, Pioneer says the SC-89 can provide a grand total of 850 watts of power. The SC-87 and SC-85 provide 810 and 760 watts of power under the same spec. All of the new receivers feature MCACC Pro, the latest iteration of Pioneer's proprietary room correction technology. For its CEDIA 2014 Atmos demo, the company used a SC-89, powering its Elite Atmos-enabled speakers in a 5.2.4 configuration—and it sounded great.

All three AVRs offer a bevy of functions and formats, while the SC-89 adds a high-end asynchronous USB DAC with DSD support to the mix. Pioneer says "Each receiver model also incorporates advanced technologies and convenient features including HDMI® 2.0, Roku Ready® Certified, HDBaseT™ (SC-89 only), multi-room and multi-source setup and playback configurations, ESS SABRE32 Ultra DACs™ (digital-to-analog converter), 192 kHz/32-bit audio scaler, iControlAV5 Application compatibility and more."

Speaking to the USB DAC in the SC 89, Pioneer states that "The top SC model incorporates a USB 32-Bit Asynchronous Audio DAC allowing direct connection to both Windows® and Mac computers. Music played from the computer utilizes the highly accurate audio optimized clock within the receiver, resulting in less jitter and delivering studio-like audio reproduction. Additionally, the SC-89’s USB DAC supports DSD Native playback (both 2.8Mhz and 5.6Mhz)."


Pioneer SC-89 back panel


Pioneer SC-87 back panel


Pioneer SC-85 back panel

The new Atmos-upgradeable Elite AV receivers from Pioneer will ship in about a month. Pioneer expects to roll out its Atmos upgrade before the end of 2014.


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post #2 of 57 Old 09-16-2014, 10:22 AM
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Beautiful!
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post #3 of 57 Old 09-16-2014, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post


At CEDIA 2014, the company introduced three new AVRs incorporating Dolby Atmos capability, including the Elite SC-89 flagship that powered its Atmos demo.

Pioneer is ready for the next wave in immersive audio. There is no doubt that Dolby Atmos was the star of the show among audio formats at CEDIA 2014, and Pioneer came ready to take advantage of the format's debut with a lineup of Atmos-upgradable AVRs. The three new models are the $1600 SC-85, $2000 SC-87 and $3000 SC-89. All three AVRs wear the Elite badge, and offer 9.2 channels of class D amplification. In addition to Atmos capability, a particular highlight of Pioneer's new AVR lineup is the inclusion of 18 Gbps HDMI 2.0 connections that handle 4K60p video with 4:4:4 color.

Pioneer noted that the use of class D amplification was advantageous for Atmos receivers because the format demands full bandwidth from every channel. For example, with all channels driven, Pioneer says the SC-89 can provide a grand total of 850 watts of power. The SC-87 and SC-85 provide 810 and 760 watts of power under the same spec. All of the new receivers feature MCACC Pro, the latest iteration of Pioneer's proprietary room correction technology. For its CEDIA 2014 Atmos demo, the company used a SC-89, powering its Elite Atmos-enabled speakers in a 5.2.4 configuration—and it sounded great.

All three AVRs offer a bevy of functions and formats, while the SC-89 adds a high-end asynchronous USB DAC with DSD support to the mix. Pioneer says "Each receiver model also incorporates advanced technologies and convenient features including HDMI® 2.0, Roku Ready® Certified, HDBaseT™ (SC-89 only), multi-room and multi-source setup and playback configurations, ESS SABRE32 Ultra DACs™ (digital-to-analog converter), 192 kHz/32-bit audio scaler, iControlAV5 Application compatibility and more."

Speaking to the USB DAC in the SC 89, Pioneer states that "The top SC model incorporates a USB 32-Bit Asynchronous Audio DAC allowing direct connection to both Windows® and Mac computers. Music played from the computer utilizes the highly accurate audio optimized clock within the receiver, resulting in less jitter and delivering studio-like audio reproduction. Additionally, the SC-89’s USB DAC supports DSD Native playback (both 2.8Mhz and 5.6Mhz)."


Pioneer SC-89 back panel


Pioneer SC-87 back panel


Pioneer SC-85 back panel

The new Atmos-upgradeable Elite AV receivers from Pioneer will ship in about a month. Pioneer expects to roll out its Atmos upgrade before the end of 2014.
You going to buy one Mark?
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post #4 of 57 Old 09-16-2014, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
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You going to buy one Mark?
I don't know, I like my current Elite. However, I'd prefer to have the flexibility offered by an 11.2 AVR for an Atmos rig. 7.2.4 seems like it hits a sweet spot for a small room like mine. I have no opinion yet.

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post #5 of 57 Old 09-16-2014, 11:03 AM
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None of these could handle 7.1.4 correct?
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post #6 of 57 Old 09-16-2014, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I don't know, I like my current Elite. However, I'd prefer to have the flexibility offered by an 11.2 AVR for an Atmos rig. 7.2.4 seems like it hits a sweet spot for a small room like mine. I have no opinion yet.
I get one when 4k becomes full bloom, not worry about Atmos.
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post #7 of 57 Old 09-16-2014, 11:16 AM
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Why not? From the manual Pioneer sent me I would be surprised if they couldn't with two channels of amplification based on my reading. The manual they provided to me is slightly different then what another forum member has so maybe they can provide a definitive answer to your question. I jumped on the Denon after calling Pioneer direct last week about buying the SC-87, which IMO is the sweet spot of the 3. Pioneer stated they had plenty on hand - why they haven't shipped them to others yet I don't understand - but the $2k price is steep compared to what you can get the Denon 5200x for if you call around - see forum sponsors. Their price for two day delivery is nice though - only $17 - not bad for a 40 lb. receiver. I also didn't want to wait for Atmos upgrade and then there is the whole room correction debate. I will be watching/reading as things unfold, all I will say is that Dolby Surround is great, can't wait to hear Atmos on a blu-ray (Transformers in a few weeks).

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post #8 of 57 Old 09-16-2014, 11:28 AM
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The AVRs looked and sound great @ CEDIA...
However...
Now that Pioneer home AV group has been sold to Onkyo...
Who will be responsible for the warranty, technical support or any firmware updates?
Pioneer?
Onkyo?

Just my $0.02...
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post #9 of 57 Old 09-16-2014, 11:44 AM
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None of these could handle 7.1.4 correct?
According to the specs, it is limited to 9.2 simultaneous amp/processing channels. The extra speaker terminals and preamp outputs are apparently just for convenience in case you want to switch between Front Wides, Surround Backs, and either one or two rows of "Top" channels. So, you could run anything up to 5.1.4, 7.1.2, or 9.1.0 in terms of discrete channels.
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post #10 of 57 Old 09-16-2014, 11:47 AM
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Is Pioneer or any manufacturers going to offer a 7.2.4 processor with Atmos with outputs for amplification? I don't need an AVR with amplification I will not use. Whomever sells one first will get my money.
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post #11 of 57 Old 09-16-2014, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post
Is Pioneer or any manufacturers going to offer a 7.2.4 processor with Atmos with outputs for amplification? I don't need an AVR with amplification I will not use. Whomever sells one first will get my money.
Denon & Marantz have models coming out that can handle processing for 7.1.4 discrete channels. Datasat has a model that should be able to do it if/when they come to an agreement with Dolby and release an Atmos update. Trinnov has the Altitude 32 channel Atmos-capable pre/pro. Those are the ones I am aware of.
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post #12 of 57 Old 09-16-2014, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post
Is Pioneer or any manufacturers going to offer a 7.2.4 processor with Atmos with outputs for amplification? I don't need an AVR with amplification I will not use. Whomever sells one first will get my money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB View Post
Denon & Marantz have models coming out that can handle processing for 7.1.4 discrete channels. Datasat has a model that should be able to do it if/when they come to an agreement with Dolby and release an Atmos update. Trinnov has the Altitude 32 channel Atmos-capable pre/pro. Those are the ones I am aware of.
Integra has an Atmos pre/pro as well; I'm pretty sure it can do 7.1.4.

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post #13 of 57 Old 09-16-2014, 01:53 PM
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Is Pioneer or any manufacturers going to offer a 7.2.4 processor with Atmos with outputs for amplification? I don't need an AVR with amplification I will not use. Whomever sells one first will get my money.
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Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB View Post
Denon & Marantz have models coming out that can handle processing for 7.1.4 discrete channels. Datasat has a model that should be able to do it if/when they come to an agreement with Dolby and release an Atmos update. Trinnov has the Altitude 32 channel Atmos-capable pre/pro. Those are the ones I am aware of.
Just careful cuz the Denon requires an external 2 channel pre if you plan to use all 4 heights... I'm not sure if all the other AVR's like that do.
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Integra has an Atmos pre/pro as well; I'm pretty sure it can do 7.1.4.
Yes. Just looked it up and Integra has two models that can do 7.1.4 Atmos...the DHC-80 11.2 channel pre/pro and the DTR-70.6 11.2 channel AVR. Note that the DTR-70.6 AVR can process 11.2 channels, but only has 9 amp channels, so you would need to provide external amplification for at least 2 channels. Both use Onkyo/Integra's AccuEQ room correction.
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Just careful cuz the Denon requires an external 2 channel power amp if you plan to use all 4 heights... I'm not sure if all the other AVR's like that do.
Yes. I don't think there are any AVR's with 11 amps built in.
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Integra has an Atmos pre/pro as well; I'm pretty sure it can do 7.1.4.
Scott, do you know if any of these 7.1.4 receivers are HDCP 2.2 compliant? If the answer is no & all you plan to do is connect the receiver to a 4k bluray player which would connect to the 4k TV, could you see any potential issues? I'm curious why receivers have features like 3D & 4K or if I need to worry about anything like that/ latency if I connect the receiver to a 4k bluray player with HDMI/ bypassing receiver connection to the TV.
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Yes. I don't think there are any AVR's with 11 amps built in.
Really? Is that a technological limitation or has it always been done that way with 11 channels? I'm new to the *anything beyond 5.1* world but looking to update
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Yes. Just looked it up and Integra has two models that can do 7.1.4 Atmos...the DHC-80 11.2 channel pre/pro and the DTR-70.6 11.2 channel AVR. Note that the DTR-70.6 AVR can process 11.2 channels, but only has 9 amp channels, so you would need to provide external amplification for at least 2 channels. Both use Onkyo/Integra's AccuEQ room correction.
Integra hasn't made prices public yet correct?
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Other than Pioneer (with their Andrew Jones designed Atmos speakers) and Onkyo (with their HTIB), has anyone actually released atmos-enabled speakers (with the upfiring drivers) or add-on modules, yet?

Have any of the other AVR & pre/pro manufacturers actually tested their components with the Atmos-enabled speakers to ensure that the setup and transfer functions work properly or are they pushing more for in-ceiling/on-ceiling speakers?
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post #20 of 57 Old 09-16-2014, 02:29 PM
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Really? Is that a technological limitation or has it always been done that way with 11 channels? I'm new to the *anything beyond 5.1* world but looking to update
The new Onkyo 3030 has 11 channels of amplification. Marantz and Denon (7009 and 5200x) both can do 7.2.4. As mentioned you will need 2 channels of amplification with either receiver. For most of us not a big deal since we are using amps for other channels already.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB View Post
Other than Pioneer (with their Andrew Jones designed Atmos speakers) and Onkyo (with their HTIB), has anyone actually released atmos-enabled speakers (with the upfiring drivers) or add-on modules, yet?

Have any of the other AVR & pre/pro manufacturers actually tested their components with the Atmos-enabled speakers to ensure that the setup and transfer functions work properly or are they pushing more for in-ceiling/on-ceiling speakers?
Def Tech's A60 modules are available for purchase at Best Buy and Crutchfield - to name two. Batpig has some in the house.

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The new Onkyo 5011 has 11 channels of amplification. Marantz and Denon (7009 and 5200x) both can do 7.2.4. As mentioned you will need 2 channels of amplification with either receiver. For most of us not a big deal since we are using amps for other channels already.
There is no such thing as an Onkyo 5011. The new "flagship" model (AVR) from Onkyo is the TX-NR3030 following the TX-NR3010 and there will be a PR-SC5530 (prepro) following the PR-SC5509. Both Doby Atmos enabled models will probably be available October 2014.

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There is no such thing as an Onkyo 5011. The new "flagship" model (AVR) from Onkyo is the TX-NR3030 following the TX-NR3010 and there will be a PR-SC5530 (prepro) following the PR-SC5509. Both Doby Atmos enabled models will probably be available October 2014.
You are correct - long day at work - the 3030 will have 11 channels of amplification. Thanks for catching that.

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I don't know, I like my current Elite. However, I'd prefer to have the flexibility offered by an 11.2 AVR for an Atmos rig. 7.2.4 seems like it hits a sweet spot for a small room like mine. I have no opinion yet.
my thoughts exactly!


funny how a year ago I was thinking a 9.1 receiver would be perfect, since it would give me so much room to grow. now I'm thinking 11 powered channels is the min I want, haha.


still, this is a great place to start
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Integra hasn't made prices public yet correct?
Here U go..
SRPs..

50.6 $1,700
60.6 $2,300
70.6 $2,800

All have Dolby Atmos, HDBaseT, HDMI 2.0, and HDCP 2.2.
HDBaseT is a great feature and can provide whole-home audio and video distribution. HDBaseT supports 3D and 2K/4K Ultra HD. And can transmit uncompressed HDMI A/V signals to displays up to 325 feet away via single CAT5e/6 cable. Both the HDBaseT and HDMI output ports can be assigned for either main or second-zone configuration.

Saw these @ CEDIA, they looked good and their private demo suite room sounded incredible. They intend to keep distribution more select through only the quality AV specialists, and don't want to repeat the Denon debacle...

Just my $0.02...
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post #26 of 57 Old 09-16-2014, 04:31 PM
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Could you use one of these with some XPA-5's so you can bypass the wimpy amp sections, but still get the Atmos processing?

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Is Pioneer or any manufacturers going to offer a 7.2.4 processor with Atmos with outputs for amplification? I don't need an AVR with amplification I will not use. Whomever sells one first will get my money.


I do NOT need internal amplifiers. I am just looking for an 11ch (7.?.4) Atmos Processor for under $3,000. The Trinnov and datatsat appear to be considerably more. If I am removing the amps from a standard AVR then the price should be less than a standard AVR "unless" they are upgrading the chipsets. I apologize if my O.P. wasn't explanatory. It appears so far only Onkyo and Integra have products. There Is nothing listed on Marantz and Denon website Yet. Will any other manufacturers have processor's only?

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post #28 of 57 Old 09-16-2014, 04:58 PM
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Could you use one of these with some XPA-5's so you can bypass the wimpy amp sections, but still get the Atmos processing?
Yes, its the processor that decodes Atmos. You can use ANY external power amp you want as long as your AVR has preamp outputs. I prefer an AVR without any internal amps as I don't need them. Why pay for something your not going to use. Besides, it may or may not cause crosstalk, etc.

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post #29 of 57 Old 09-16-2014, 05:17 PM
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Does anybody know if the pioneer sc 85 will support dolby surround upmixer ?
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post #30 of 57 Old 09-16-2014, 05:19 PM
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Here U go..
SRPs..

50.6 $1,700
60.6 $2,300
70.6 $2,800

All have Dolby Atmos, HDBaseT, HDMI 2.0, and HDCP 2.2.
HDBaseT is a great feature and can provide whole-home audio and video distribution. HDBaseT supports 3D and 2K/4K Ultra HD. And can transmit uncompressed HDMI A/V signals to displays up to 325 feet away via single CAT5e/6 cable. Both the HDBaseT and HDMI output ports can be assigned for either main or second-zone configuration.

Saw these @ CEDIA, they looked good and their private demo suite room sounded incredible. They intend to keep distribution more select through only the quality AV specialists, and don't want to repeat the Denon debacle...

Just my $0.02...
What was the Denon debacle ?

"Bring out yer dead!".."Wait I'm not dead yet!"..(Sound Austrian here) "WRONG !!" (You know what happens next..)
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