Archaea's Auto room EQ/AVR comparison G2G - November 8, 2014 - Kansas City - AVS Forum
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Old 10-10-2014, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Archaea's Auto room EQ/AVR comparison G2G - November 8, 2014 - Kansas City

RESULTS POSTED - Post Numbers, 199-208
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1717346-archaea-s-auto-room-eq-avr-comparison-g2g-november-8-2014-kansas-city-7.html#post28900602




------------------
Intent:

Blind compare several different auto room EQ processors and evaluate their impact on sound quality, and enjoyment of both music and movie content.
Compare:
• AccuEQ
• ARC
• Audyssey
• Dirac
• MCACC
• Trinnov
• YPAO
• Other?



Date/Location:
November 8, Blue Springs Mo, (suburb of Kanas City)



Home Theater Equipment:
Mains and Surrounds: Nine matching Mackie C200 speakers – 8ohm, 96dB sensitivity.
http://www.mackie.com/products/c200/
Subwoofers: Eight Ultimax UM18-22 subwoofers in sealed 3 cubic foot boxes powered by two iNuke DSP 6000 amps. – can be broken into two banks of subwoofers.
Projector: Panasonic AE8000U projected to Jamestown 144” 2.35:1 screen with Seymour XD AT fabric



Room:
It's large, 22’ by 24’ and not square….which should be forgiving to most auto eq processing.
It's slightly treated -- has carpet, Certainteed Theater f ceiling tiles with a .65 NRC, and 9" of pink fluffy insulation above the tiles. The front wall has 3" acoustic studio foam treatments. The front three speakers are in a baffle wall....The room is not exactly square, as it opens up on one side in the rear. In my estimation - it ought to be a pretty easy room for the auto EQ processors to calculate for.



Receivers/Auto EQ processors to be compared… see post 2 for updated list...

***I’d really like to get an Atmos system into the mix (Onkyo has the new AccuEQ system out with Atmos), and while ATMOS is not a room AutoEQ system – it is a cool tech that I’m sure many enthusiasts would enjoy having in the comparison. If one is available, I’ll likely install ceiling speakers before the meet so we can enjoy the chance to demo the tech.
AVSforum member, @wulfcomp, is a local AV dealer for several brands, he is going to try to fill in the gaps if we can't get a particular calibration system. I’d like to use the newest/highest class iteration of each Auto EQ processor function we can get our hands on. If anyone who is willing to attend has a higher model level receiver within the Auto EQ line than what is currently attending please speak up.



Plan:
I really don't think this particular g2g will be very setup heavy compared to some of the others we've done. Why? All setup can be completely will be done in advance of arrival. I'd like to set each AVRs auto room EQ function up in advance, Friday night or before - so on Saturday November 8th - all we are doing is swapping speaker wires from AVR to AVR. I will grab the frequency response plots for the objective data before the meet – so we can just have fun at the meet in seeing who likes what and discussing what we hear.

For setup the speakers will be level matched to the Disney WOW BluRay test tones after the auto EQ function is run on each unit to ensure a level playing field. The crossover points will be set to 80hz. No other changes will be made to the AutoEQ defaults for the blind tests. If an AVR or AutoEQ function has bells and whistles employed by room correction software, or the AVR vendor’s default settings to ‘enhance’ or differentiate the sound. Then that is what we are going to compare. This serves a couple purposes:

1) It will eliminate foul cry on setup. I won’t have made a processor change I subjectively view as an improvement that someone else feels is a detriment –inevitably subjective preferences that will never be agreed upon by any 2 enthusiasts. Instead we will listen to Denon engineer’s recommended setup vs. Pioneer’s engineered recommended setup, vs Anthem’s recommended setup – etc.
2) It’s a blind test – sometimes what people like (or believe they should like) turn out different than they originally suppose. For example do you like ‘dynamic volume’, ‘dialogue enhancement’ dynamic EQ etc? Many people automatically turn these bells and whistles off (including myself typically). But if we turn all this ‘stuff’ off we may lose some of the differentiating value each manufacturer recommends in this g2g. Speaking from past experience, AVSforum member scrappydue, carp and I compared an Onkyo and a Pioneer AVR after we disabled all vendor unique settings, and EQ settings. At that point we couldn't tell the difference in instant switching of the AVRs to a pair of Klipsch RF-63 speakers running full range. Thus, I believe we should not undo everything the auto calibration does - since this is an auto calibration comparison. I expect each offering to sound different.
What I suggest for this meet is picking a favorite action movie (throw your film vote in the comments – I’d like a film with consistent action through the film) and split the movie into equal sections to the quantity of Auto EQ processors compared. We will watch a equal segment of the movie with each setup. Before each AVR is swapped out - we can play about 10 minutes of identical music clips to compare same material. Everybody attending should contributes a single song recommendation and I can them up into 45 second sections to make the music track. This process will allow everyone to throw in a blind vote before even knowing which is which. We’ll get an idea as a group if there is any consistency to favorite AVR/Processor function --- or perhaps determine there aren’t significantly audible differences in the processors?!?! We will break for dinner and have fun discussing what we heard. People can leave at that point, or stay for some additional comparisons. If there is a couple consistent favorites then we can utilize the remaining time to sandbox between the favorites. Perhaps some time to play/compare identical movie clips with each setup for a more direct shootout of movie content. Later on we can disable bell and whistle features or vendor functions and see how much the sound changes – for the better? Or for the worse?

Ultimately, it’s just a chance to spend some time with friends and other enthusiasts in the hobby comparing cool gear.



Remaining Questions?

Quantity of speakers
I have nine identical Mackie C200. Do we want to let the processors that can run nine use them all, and the ones that can just run five or seven - just run the most it is capable of? --- or do we limit each receiver to the lowest common speaker calibration setup to try to level the playing field? IE - every processor gets five or seven speakers only. I lean towards letting each processor do the most it can with it’s capability. A processor that has more capability will most likely be used to its fullest capability. If a processor is more capable – let it show its self so IMO.
As to the concern that the processor with more speakers will automatically reign --- @stitch1 and I did some testing with 5.2 vs. 7.2 vs 9.2 with the Onkyo PR-SC5508 and the Mackies. Stitch1, preferred 7.2 over 5.2 over 9.2. I was mostly indifferent to 9.2, which is why I don't currently even have the 9.2 setup engaged and am just using 7.2 I liked 7.2 over 5.2. I haven't tried 9.2 with the Denon 4520 yet. But something like the standalone Trinnov or DIRAC, might shine when you give it the full 9 speakers --- and with the cost of entry on processors like that – why would someone buy it if they only planned to use the minimal 5 speakers and call it a day. If something can do more with more - then it seems like you'd like to showcase that?

Quantity of Subwoofers
With eight subwoofers, I have the ability to run up to four groups of two. This gives many placement options. We could place them midroom wall like the Harmon Kardon papers suggest, or all in one bank, or split into two bank – nearfield and up front. If a processor is only capable of one subwoofer out processing do we limit all processors to one subwoofer out, or do we let each shine as it is able to ? In this case I also lean towards letting each processor do the absolute best it can within its own toolset.
Run em as you brung em --- so to speak.

At the most base level – this will be easiest if our comparison is as most out of box as it can be - rather than a comparison of how much one could tinker to get the absolute best sound on each setup --- and the resulting inevitable subjective feedback of – “Why didn't you do THIS, because it definitely would have been better if you had????!!
If we just go primarily with defaults - then there is no argument -
Q. Why'd you do that?
A. We didn't - Audyssey, MCACC, Trinnov, ARC did
markrubin, RMK!, Djoel and 3 others like this.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

Last edited by Archaea; 11-15-2014 at 08:19 PM. Reason: added results link
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Old 10-10-2014, 10:54 PM - Thread Starter
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STARTING TIME:

Greet/Arrive at 1:30PM to 1:45PM

Clips will roll at 2PM!!!













Currently Confirmed!
  • AccuEQ (and Atmos) - Onkyo TX-NR636 - @mwhorseman
  • ARC - Anthem 510 - @rboster
  • Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 - Denon 4520CI - @Scrappydue
  • Dirac - miniDSP nanoAVR DL w/ Dirac functionality - @7channelfreak
  • MCACC - Pioneer Elite SC-67 - @wulfcomp
  • Trinnov - Sherwood Newcastle R972 - @WiWavelength
  • YPAO - Yamaha CX-A5000 pre/pro - @WiWavelength
  • Control setup/no EQ - Onkyo PR-SC5508 - @Archaea

    -----------
  • Sherbourn 7-350 amplifier - used for pre/pros - supplied by @Luke Kamp


NEEDED!
  • AccuEQ - higher end unit than Onkyo TX-NR636 that is currently accounted for?
  • Dolby Atmos - higher end unit than Onkyo TX-NR636 that is currently accounted for?
  • others? (Sony, Datasat, REW/J-River, Ares, Room Perfect, etc)
------------------------------------

Attendee list:


Confirmed - (12)
@Archaea
@stitch1
@carp
@d_c
@Randy Bessinger
@jedimastergrant
@ChldsPlay
@WiWavelength
@7channelfreak
@Scrappydue
@rboster
@wulfcomp


Maybe
@HuskerOmaha
@JDontee
@Luke Kamp (might attend partial timeframe - arriving late)
@lukeamdman
@thebland
@wadec22
@mwhorseman (might attend partial - arriving between 4 and 6pm)

Last edited by Archaea; 11-05-2014 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 10-10-2014, 11:04 PM
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Ok what time? I'll most likely be working that day till 6. Doubt I will be able to get it off so soon with a new job. And as far as movie clip goes I'd like something with action for sure but really wanna have something with great vocals. And also if I attend I'd prefer to sit no where near the sweet spot. I think this is one thing that will be the funnest to check out. Mcacc with solo spot calibratin vs xt32 8-12 point calibration. Or will be just doing the mic all eight times in the se
Spot?
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Old 10-10-2014, 11:06 PM
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And if I can bring a friend with me I may have a much higher model pioneer than carps. Although not sure how much mcacc has changed through the years.
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Old 10-10-2014, 11:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Steven,

Exact start time is flexible, but likely 2PM after some initial discussion in the KC thread. Can you trade that day with a co-worker if you can't take vacation time yet?

The 2PM start time gives the group a chance to:
  • watch a full length movie at 2 hours +
  • have about 45 minutes of music demo time mixed in
  • account for a little bit of component swap out time
then eat dinner together at ~6PM after concluding the structured blind testing, and talk through the results over dinner.

It gives the guys coming in from out of state a chance to get there in the morning, or leave in the evening within a comfortable time - assuming they don't want to spend the night in KC.

After dinner, for anyone who stays, we can play around with whatever functions/further comparisons we'd like.

----------------

I plan to take advantage of as many mic calibration positions as each system is able to utilize. To keep it as fair as possible - before the first setup - I'll mark the floor with tape indicating mic stand spots for measurements. This will keep the measuring spots consistent between processors.


-----------------

As to the high end Pioneer --- great! - I want to use the newest, highest caliber model of each vendor/platform that we can get our hands on.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

Last edited by Archaea; 10-10-2014 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 10-11-2014, 08:44 AM
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Put me down as a maybe.

Too bad I don't have an AVR to bring. My pre/pro has Audyssey MultEQ XT, which royally sucks.
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Old 10-11-2014, 08:46 AM
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I know this isn't the most ethical idea so probably not...

Can we buy an avr and return it after the GTG?
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Old 10-11-2014, 08:49 AM
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I see you plan to use the WOW disk to make sure the speakers are all level matched. My advice is to NOT use it to level match the subs. The WOW disk calibrates the subs very low compared to every other method of level matching in my experience including the AVIA disk, avr tones, and the various auto calibrations.
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Old 10-11-2014, 09:37 AM
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Archea, this gtg looks like a lot of fun. Could you put me down as a maybe (I'll know for sure by next weekend). I may have missed it but if the RC has the ability to measure multiple seating positions will you do that or go for best eq in a single seat? Also did you mention if you have an amp for the satellites. If the XMC-1 has Dirac operational by then I would like to bring it but it is only pre/pro. If needed I could bring the LG too.
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Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Epson 8350
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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Old 10-11-2014, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
Put me down as a maybe.

Too bad I don't have an AVR to bring. My pre/pro has Audyssey MultEQ XT, which royally sucks.
Very cool!!! Let's get some more out of town guys!!

I'm embarrassed to admit I didn't even realize you and Dustin were at David's GTG in June until I saw you posting about it. Hell we probably talked and I didn't realize who I was talking to.....

I'm very easily confused....
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Old 10-11-2014, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
Archea, this gtg looks like a lot of fun. Could you put me down as a maybe (I'll know for sure by next weekend). I may have missed it but if the RC has the ability to measure multiple seating positions will you do that or go for best eq in a single seat? Also did you mention if you have an amp for the satellites. If the XMC-1 has Dirac operational by then I would like to bring it but it is only pre/pro. If needed I could bring the LG too.
I hope you can make it Lance, it would be very cool to meet you!
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Old 10-11-2014, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Very cool!!! Let's get some more out of town guys!!

I'm embarrassed to admit I didn't even realize you and Dustin were at David's GTG in June until I saw you posting about it. Hell we probably talked and I didn't realize who I was talking to.....

I'm very easily confused....
Funny. I had read so many of the KC GTG threads that I at least knew who most of the KC folks were at David's GTG.
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Old 10-11-2014, 10:31 AM
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I hope you can find someone nearby with an HTPC and REW/Equalizer-APO. Not quite as "auto" as the others, but free (as long as you have an HTPC).
Have a blast.
Michael

Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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Old 10-11-2014, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
I hope you can make it Lance, it would be very cool to meet you!

Sheldon, meeting all of you guys would be great. The KC group has put on a lot of good GTG's that look like fun over the years.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Epson 8350
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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Old 10-11-2014, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
I see you plan to use the WOW disk to make sure the speakers are all level matched. My advice is to NOT use it to level match the subs. The WOW disk calibrates the subs very low compared to every other method of level matching in my experience including the AVIA disk, avr tones, and the various auto calibrations.

No problem with that - - - You bring your AVIA disk if you think it's better. I only have the WOW and haven't compared the two. I'm not sure we can use receiver test tones - because I lack confidence they'd be equivalent brand to brand.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
Archea, this gtg looks like a lot of fun. Could you put me down as a maybe (I'll know for sure by next weekend). I may have missed it but if the RC has the ability to measure multiple seating positions will you do that or go for best eq in a single seat? Also did you mention if you have an amp for the satellites. If the XMC-1 has Dirac operational by then I would like to bring it but it is only pre/pro. If needed I could bring the LG too.

That'd be really cool! Is that even a possibility as far as Dirac release date? I thought it was still no known ETA?


I'd let each room calibration tool use as many measuring positions as it can for the most optimal calibration experience. I'll have tape marks on the floor so we end up using the same spots (when applicable) to keep the tools getting the same source data from the room. If best practices differ in getting measurements with different pieces of kit - we will follow each vendor's own best practices for the auto calibration.


I own 3 Crown X1000 amps, and one Crown XLS-202 amp for mains - but better than that, Luke Kamp volunteered his Sherbourn 7-350 amp if we do have a pre-pro enter without an internal amplifier section. The LG - ha. Glorious Overkill - but probably wholly unnecessary for this meet.


I'll put you down as a maybe too - though if Dirac comes out before this meet - I might escalate your status to required. :P


For you trustworthy forum regulars and friends possibly coming in from out of state. I've got a big place, and if you aren't sure you want to make the trip in/out in a single day you can crash at my place, or likely at some other KC enthusiast's houses too. PM me for more info.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
I hope you can find someone nearby with an HTPC and REW/Equalizer-APO. Not quite as "auto" as the others, but free (as long as you have an HTPC).
Have a blast.
Michael
desertdome might have something up his sleeve with j-river if he determines he can come - but anything in this realm can get tricky to directly compare to AVRs.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

Last edited by Archaea; 10-11-2014 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 10-11-2014, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
No problem with that - - - You bring your AVIA disk if you think it's better. I only have the WOW and haven't compared the two. I'm not sure we can use receiver test tones - because I lack confidence they'd be equivalent brand to brand.





That'd be really cool! Is that even a possibility as far as Dirac release date? I thought it was still no known ETA?


I'd let each room calibration tool use as many measuring positions as it can for the most optimal calibration experience. I'll have tape marks on the floor so we end up using the same spots (when applicable) to keep the tools getting the same source data from the room. If best practices differ in getting measurements with different pieces of kit - we will follow each vendor's own best practices for the auto calibration.


I own 3 Crown X1000 amps, and one Crown XLS-202 amp for mains - but better than that, Luke Kamp volunteered his Sherbourn 7-350 amp if we do have a pre-pro enter without an internal amplifier section. The LG - ha. Glorious Overkill - but probably wholly unnecessary for this meet.


I'll put you down as a maybe too - though if Dirac comes out before this meet - I might escalate your status to required. :P


For you trustworthy forum regulars and friends possibly coming in from out of state. I've got a big place, and if you aren't sure you want to make the trip in/out in a single day you can crash at my place, or likely at some other KC enthusiast's houses too. PM me for more info.



desertdome might have something up his sleeve with j-river if he determines he can come - but anything in this realm can get tricky to directly compare to AVRs.

as far as Dirac on the XMC-1 it is already past due but whether or not it will be ready by then is hard to say. With Emo you have to have a crystal ball. If Dirac is not ready then XMC-1 does not have auto RC, you use manual PEQ, time alignment and XO settings. That is how I am using it now with REW to validate. If we don't have the Dirac then I am not sure it will fit into you comparison very well. Let me know what you think. Hopefully it will be ready in time. thx for the invite too, it is much appreciated.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Epson 8350
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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Old 10-11-2014, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
desertdome might have something up his sleeve with j-river if he determines he can come - but anything in this realm can get tricky to directly compare to AVRs.
Not at all, since you're taking the AVR's EQ out of the equation altogether. Run REW, generate the filters, drop them into Equalizer-APO. Done.
But not many of us do it this way.

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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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Old 10-11-2014, 07:24 PM
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Old 10-11-2014, 09:08 PM
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Old 10-12-2014, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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What is the likelihood we'll have an ATMOS processor at this comparison?



@jdsmoothie, any possibility of AVS Science Sales loaning out an Atmos processor to the KC gang for this meet? Even if it were something inexpensive like the Onkyo 636? I could pay for it up front, and then be reimbursed upon return in perfect condition? I'd pay shipping both ways, if your sales team has such a loaner available? @Scott Wilkinson, or @imagic, also shouting out your names to see if AVS Forum as an entity has such an opportunity to loan a processor for the upcoming comparison?



To that question - I also would like some feedback in this thread regarding height speaker placement. If we don't have a Atmos receiver attending the meet, and height speakers with older technology like on my Denon 4520 or Onkyo PR-SC5508 don't have any use for that particular mount location - then I'll probably not install the speakers -- but it could be done in short order if there is any value.
Traditional height speakers directly above or slightly forward of seating area?

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint
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Old 10-12-2014, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I just found out one of my buddies @mwhorseman bought a Onkyo 636 this week. Those can be upgraded via firmware to support ATMOS. That AVR is a very likely possibility in this comparison to cover both AccuEQ and Atmos -- that is I'll try to turn its attendance into a confirmation unless we have something of a higher model available to one of the attendees.


==============EDIT --- after some PMs ----- Great news!!!! ==========================
Check out post 2 as of tonight 10/12. We now have all the major auto EQ room correction players covered with people who are at least interested in attending enough to say maybe. We just gotta encourage them to move from maybe to confirmed attendance! I'm begging to think this is going to come together quite well!
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Last edited by Archaea; 10-12-2014 at 11:02 PM.
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Old 10-12-2014, 11:52 PM
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Will y'all be doing any measurements, maybe the day before when setting each up or strictly listening tests?


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Old 10-13-2014, 12:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Measurements/sanity check will be done the day before wherever possible, so we can just enjoy the meet the day of. An omnimic will be used to capture the frequency responses.
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Old 10-14-2014, 10:43 AM
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My vote is to use the same number of surround speakers for all testing. I do understand that more speakers is not always preferred and conversely that choosing to limit the capabilities of a given processor could be seen as a disadvantage.

However, I think our test is mostly invalidated if we don't use the same number of speakers. How are we to know what the differences we hear should be attributed to? Is it the processing? Or is it just that we had a different number of speakers?

I think changing the number of speakers should be its own test. And this could be done after dinner based on interest.

Anyway, I think limiting the number of variables is paramount in any experiment such as this.

And don't get me wrong I am not trying to be super strict here and I still think the main reason to get together is meeting and talking with the other enthusiasts at the meet. But, why go to the trouble of doing the test well in so many other facets if we ignore this potentially very pivotal variable?
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Old 10-14-2014, 10:48 AM
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Obviously we need to watch a movie that engages the surround channels for a large part of the movie and at lots of different times if we are switching out AVR's. Is there a list on avs for that?

Recently I watched the new Total Recall remake and it engaged the surround channels a ton. The new Dredd movie did as well.......man was that a bloody affair! Did the Avengers have much in the surrounds? I don't remember. I will have to give it some more thought but that's a start.
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Old 10-14-2014, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post
Obviously we need to watch a movie that engages the surround channels for a large part of the movie and at lots of different times if we are switching out AVR's. Is there a list on avs for that?

Recently I watched the new Total Recall remake and it engaged the surround channels a ton. The new Dredd movie did as well.......man was that a bloody affair! Did the Avengers have much in the surrounds? I don't remember. I will have to give it some more thought but that's a start.
Lone Survivor put my surrounds to work during the fight scenes, but it's only 5.1. For overall engagement, it seems like Tron Legacy was always engaging the surrounds.
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Old 10-14-2014, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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We have confirmation on the inclusion of at least one Atmos avr. My friend confirmed today that even if he can't make it - I can borrow his Onkyo TX-NR636 with 5.2.2 Atmos.
With that in mind should we choose an Atmos capable movie? (There is only one avail at this time - the newest Transformer, which on a positive note is a action heavy, surround heavy, bass heavy movie the whole way through, and on a negative note is at best an OKAY movie - even for those that liked the transformer series. I'm not sure which other Atmos titles will be released soon, maybe something better will come through by Nov 8, but the list at current doens't look too promising (http://hometheaterreview.com/more-do...les-announced/)
As far as good sound - the Transformer movie with Atmos has it in spades and the action is loaded front to back throughout the film.)

---------
Hmmmm about the variance in number of speakers.... I see both sides on that matter.

I don't believe more speakers automatically equate to higher enjoyment. Stitch1 liked 7.1 > 5.1 > 9.1 in my room, in the same test I liked 9.1 better than 5.1, but was indifferent to 9.1 vs 7.1. This testing was done with the onkyo pr-sc5508. In all frankness the 5.1 setup was perfectly adequate, and 7.1 was a very slight step up IMO.
I do see your point however, and there is also the consideration that this is a blind test and we don't want to away what audition is what by having one AVR play 9.1 and another play 5.1.

Counter again however --- is it statistically interesting if 9.1 is favored or disfavored over 5.1 or 7.1 by the blind votes?

hmmmmm....
More input and discussion is in order on this matter.

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Old 10-14-2014, 04:18 PM
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Tron is always great, the lengthy battle scene in Lone Survivor is awesome, Winter Soldier and Edge of Tomorrow both have some of my favorite surround.
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Old 10-15-2014, 07:41 AM
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A few Dirac tips for you guys:
1) Do the receiver auto time alignment and leveling prior to running Dirac. I use Audyssey Quick Setup, then manually set the crossover points.
2) Disable any DSP in the receiver that could interfere with room correction, like DynamicEQ and Dynamic Volume, or similar adaptive loudness stuff.
3) I have had better luck overall doing bass management after Dirac, rather than before, as long as I'm not clipping.
4) Watch out for the clip indicator. Clipping sounds worse, but it's not always obvious, so you have to pay attention. If you run into clipping, either lower the input volume or lower the target curve and cut instead of boost.
5) For speakers with extended treble response (>20khz), the default Dirac curve will sometimes spike the treble, giving you an edgy sound. You can fix this by zooming in on the right side of the graph and dragging the upper limit to the right. This way, you can get a smooth treble response, rather than a spike on these speakers.
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Old 10-15-2014, 10:06 PM
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A few Dirac tips for you guys:
1) Do the receiver auto time alignment and leveling prior to running Dirac. I use Audyssey Quick Setup, then manually set the crossover points.
2) Disable any DSP in the receiver that could interfere with room correction, like DynamicEQ and Dynamic Volume, or similar adaptive loudness stuff.
3) I have had better luck overall doing bass management after Dirac, rather than before, as long as I'm not clipping.
4) Watch out for the clip indicator. Clipping sounds worse, but it's not always obvious, so you have to pay attention. If you run into clipping, either lower the input volume or lower the target curve and cut instead of boost.
5) For speakers with extended treble response (>20khz), the default Dirac curve will sometimes spike the treble, giving you an edgy sound. You can fix this by zooming in on the right side of the graph and dragging the upper limit to the right. This way, you can get a smooth treble response, rather than a spike on these speakers.
appreciate the tips on Dirac. I just loaded the free 2 channel version just to get familiar with it before the XCM-1 version become available. So far I am getting a bi improvement in impulse response confirmed by RW measurements before and after. The only thing I don't like about it is it has dropped the input signal because sweeps (or music) are about 10dB lower running through Dirac vs straight through my normal sound card. I hope the implementation through XMC-1 does not have this drop in signal level.

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