Yes and no. Like I said the Yamaha is
extremely flexible, where the Marantz seems barely adjustable at all by comparison. Case in point: even with basic Dolby PLII processing, like my last several Denons, the Marantz just basically has the option to activate DPLII or not. With the Yamaha you can actually make some menu adjustments to DPLII (reverb/decay or something I think - I can't really remember precisely as I didn't find basic DPLII or any of it's automatic extensions, nearly as effective as Yamahas proprietary dsps for music).
The dsps I'm referring to, Yamaha supposedly took readings/acoustic measurements at various well known music venues around the world and attempted to reproduce that environment through dsp tweaking. Like I said, I've NEVER liked dsps, before owning a Yamaha. But if music was my primary goal, I no longer think I would even consider anything else, but Yamaha. A lot of people love multi-channel stereo. I've only found it OK in certain applications myself, but it literally pales in comparison to what the Yamahas can do. They can take a mediocre mix/recording and literally make it sound phenomenal. I presume, some purists would disagree, but I used to be one of those purists.
Yamahas dsps work both with multichannel 5.1 as well as stereo. Though, I find that if the dvd has a stereo PCM track that's likely to have better tonal fidelity, as it's likely closer to the actual recording. The lossy 5.1 tracks are just remixes to add mostly crowd noise, where the Yamaha's dsps on the 2-channel PCM make it feel more like you're right on stage with the band, depending on the concert of course. With the Yamaha, suddenly all my concert dvds only seemed lacking in the video department, not the sound. But, surprisingly, I preferred their dsps even for some concerts on BD as well.
You won't get any dissent from me regarding the expertise of any BB employee. Nor do I trust the ambitious competency in their ability to set up their gear. But there are other dealers I know who have specialized in audio in a very personal way for many decades now that I place a lot more value on. You're right in your implication that you've got to have enough expertise to know what things to take away from any store demo, what to trust and what not to trust and how much to trust it. Even then, some store demos are rigged to favor one piece over another, so you've got to dot your i's and put in some research too. I personally will usually spend at least a month researching any major purchase, unless I need it immediately. That said, I've now owned both the Marantz and Yamaha lines in question, so my comparison is hardly dependent on what I heard in a store. I can affirm that what I heard with those two devices were consistent with my in home experience. So, it's reasonable to think my experience with the 4000 was too, especially considering what I heard was corroborated by multiple independent sources. Obviously that's hardly a guarantee of anything, but an honest, unbiased, and I think reasonably qualified opinion is the best I can offer on the subject.
The only real way would be to do a double blind test
its been proven again and again that if you do a sighted listening test subjectivity licks in
you are also using some AVR's at pretty significant price point differences
The last X4000 I saw was $500 on clearance at Best Buy
its by far less expensive than the others you mentioned
Warren
Your point? Are you suggesting that double blind tests are at all practical for a consumer to do in non-laboratory conditions while trying to decide on which AVR to upgrade too? Even sanitized laboratory testing has it's limitations.
I agree that I wouldn't naturally assume the 4000 to be in league with the 7800/3030, maybe not even the 2030, based on price and what I know about the 2030's design and build from talking with multiple Yamaha techs, comparing it myself for weeks, and even demoing the unit. But I've also seen $200 dvd/BD players outperform $2000 models before - irrefutably blow them away in fact. You can't assume that price is any kind of precise indicator of performance; sometimes it has more to do with marketing and company politics. You could be paying more for a name or for a less efficient manufacturing and distribution network. There are many here who will argue that a $200 AVR sounds just as good as any $2000 model, it just doesn't have all the bells and whistles, of which they seem to also think are more hype than substance. I couldn't disagree more with that, myself. That said, in my research a year ago, a lot - and I can't emphasis the phrase "a lot" enough - seemed to think the 4000 equal to the other brands or at least "close enough". Calling around, at the time, the markup on the 4000 didn't appear to be as high as on the others either. Actual street price was considerably closer than their SRPs might imply. I think some dealers favored the 4000, knowing the lower price made it an easier sell - some physical stores I went to or called didn't even carry anything above the 4000 in price point, even speciality A/V retailers you'd expect to, considering todays high end integrated AVRs are more akin to yesterdays mid end.