6.1 movies - 5.1/7.1 Receivers - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 21 Old 06-30-2015, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Maryville, TN
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Exclamation 6.1 movies - 5.1/7.1 Receivers

So the wife and I purchased Star Wars, The Complete Saga, and its time to upgrade my receiver (Pioneer VSX-D608, 1999?) so that I can enjoy my Blu-Ray surround sound through the HDMI cable.

As I look at receivers, and decide between 5.1 and 7.1, I notice that all 6 of the Star Wars DVDs are "6.1 DTS" so I'm now curious, what happens to the sound distribution of a 6.1 track when it goes through a 5.1 or 7.1 receiver?

Thanks in advance!
Wile E. Coyote is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 21 Old 06-30-2015, 07:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
kikkenit2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redondo Beach
Posts: 1,981
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 288 Post(s)
Liked: 138
6.1 is not a problem for any recent receiver. A 5.1 receiver will play it as 5.1. A 7.1 setup
will give you the option of playing as 7.1 or 5.1. Easy to toggle between surround sound options.

A 7 channel receiver will matrix in those rear surround speakers. And open up the option of
5.1 with maybe speaker b, height, or zone2 stereo at the same time. Don't bother with bi-amp
option. Get a 7.1 receiver with network and usb port if possible, depending on budget.

Last edited by kikkenit2; 06-30-2015 at 07:42 PM.
kikkenit2 is online now  
post #3 of 21 Old 06-30-2015, 07:41 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rdgrimes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Posts: 17,241
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 827 Post(s)
Liked: 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post
So the wife and I purchased Star Wars, The Complete Saga, and its time to upgrade my receiver (Pioneer VSX-D608, 1999?) so that I can enjoy my Blu-Ray surround sound through the HDMI cable.

As I look at receivers, and decide between 5.1 and 7.1, I notice that all 6 of the Star Wars DVDs are "6.1 DTS" so I'm now curious, what happens to the sound distribution of a 6.1 track when it goes through a 5.1 or 7.1 receiver?

Thanks in advance!
The "6.1" DTS DVD audio tracks are actually 5.1 with the rear channel matrixed during encoding. You can play them as 5.1 and not lose any audio, its just in the surround channels instead of a back channel.

When properly decoded on a 7.1 system, the back channel is played in both back speakers as a mono signal.

DTS-MA 6.1 audio on a blu-ray disc is a different animal, as it usually has a discrete back channel. Nevertheless, when decoded it "should" still be transformed into 5.1 or 7.1 as above. Nobody knows WHY the studio decided to make 6.1 BD releases, but in a few cases they did.
rdgrimes is offline  
post #4 of 21 Old 06-30-2015, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Maryville, TN
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by kikkenit2 View Post
6.1 is not a problem for any recent receiver. A 5.1 receiver will play it as 5.1. A 7.1 setup
will give you the option of playing as 7.1 or 5.1. Easy to toggle between surround sound options.

A 7 channel receiver will matrix in those rear surround speakers. And open up the option of
5.1 with maybe speaker b, height, or zone2 stereo at the same time. Don't bother with bi-amp
option. Get a 7.1 receiver with network and usb port if possible, depending on budget.
Thanks for the reply kikkenit2 - your info helps!
Wile E. Coyote is offline  
post #5 of 21 Old 06-30-2015, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Maryville, TN
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
The "6.1" DTS DVD audio tracks are actually 5.1 with the rear channel matrixed during encoding. You can play them as 5.1 and not lose any audio, its just in the surround channels instead of a back channel.

When properly decoded on a 7.1 system, the back channel is played in both back speakers as a mono signal.

DTS-MA 6.1 audio on a blu-ray disc is a different animal, as it usually has a discrete back channel. Nevertheless, when decoded it "should" still be transformed into 5.1 or 7.1 as above. Nobody knows WHY the studio decided to make 6.1 BD releases, but in a few cases they did.
Thanks for the weigh-in rdgrimes; I'm pickin' up what you're layin' down! Appreciated!
Wile E. Coyote is offline  
post #6 of 21 Old 06-30-2015, 08:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
kikkenit2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redondo Beach
Posts: 1,981
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 288 Post(s)
Liked: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post
Thanks for the reply kikkenit2 - your info helps!
Your welcome. What is your monitor(tv) and realistic budget for receiver/speakers? Size of room etc.
kikkenit2 is online now  
post #7 of 21 Old 06-30-2015, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Maryville, TN
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by kikkenit2 View Post
Your welcome. What is your monitor(tv) and realistic budget for receiver/speakers? Size of room etc.
TV Monitor is a Samsung Series 8000 LED TV.

For front speakers, I have an undefeated pair of Bose 601, series III I bought in 1989 that just recently demonstrated 108 db watching the Gladiators battle scene with zero distortion. Center is a faithful Paradigm and side speakers are repaired Jamo's that I managed to destroy the foams on.

My plan is to move the Jamo's to the rear and add another pair of Bose 601's to the sides.

I have 2 budgets for the receiver that I'm struggling with; commit to this Onkyo TX NR709 at HHGregg for $400 bucks to get me through the next month so that I can watch my Star Wars DVDs and get caught up on the Star Wars story - and then in the fall I'm leaning towards a Pioneer Elite VS90. Budget wise for receivers, I'm willing to commit $400 - $700 now, and when needed, another $700 to $1000 this fall/winter.

As far as a speakers budget - I've found a second pair of Bose 601 Series III's for $600. Can anyone recommend something "better" for $600?

Thanks for your comments!

Last edited by Wile E. Coyote; 07-01-2015 at 11:16 AM.
Wile E. Coyote is offline  
post #8 of 21 Old 06-30-2015, 10:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
kikkenit2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redondo Beach
Posts: 1,981
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 288 Post(s)
Liked: 138
The tv is 1080p 3d so no need for 4k video hdcp. The onkyo 709 is a decent 4 year old receiver.
It was from the hdmi failure years. Not worth a bunch. The newest pioneer models have only
partially been announced. Forget the idea about new speakers. They weren't mentioned and I guessed
wrong. Unless you plan on using ceiling speakers in a 7.1 setup I would hold off for a higher level sc
and just get the pioneer 1124 for now. Barely more than the onkyo and only 1 year old if that.
http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-VSX-11.../dp/B00ITHKJDO
kikkenit2 is online now  
post #9 of 21 Old 06-30-2015, 10:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 9,948
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1686 Post(s)
Liked: 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post

For front speakers, I have an undefeated pair of Bose 601, series III I bought in 1989 that just recently demonstrated 108 db watching the Gladiators battle scene with zero distortion.
Undefeated? Zero distortion, really? You got measurements
lovinthehd is online now  
post #10 of 21 Old 06-30-2015, 10:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
zgeneral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,189
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 581 Post(s)
Liked: 122
You might also want to track down some fan edits of the films. They make the worst of them actually watchable.
zgeneral is online now  
post #11 of 21 Old 06-30-2015, 10:43 PM
Senior Member
 
Squirrel!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post
TV Monitor is a Samsung Series 8000 LED TV.

For front speakers, I have an undefeated pair of Bose 601, series III I bought in 1989 that just recently demonstrated 108 db watching the Gladiators battle scene with zero distortion.
I believe it. Bose rocked back in the day. That is the foundation of the company, the big, floor standers...


Quote:
I have 2 budgets for the receiver that I'm struggling with; commit to this Onkyo TX NR709 at HHGregg for $400 bucks to get me through the next month so that I can watch my Star Wars DVDs and get caught up on the Star Wars story - and then in the fall I'm leaning towards a Pioneer Elite VS90.
Why go thru this twice? Just go thru it once, have a MUCH better AVR than either of the two you are looking at, and call it a day? Something like this with Audyssey MultEQ XT room correction, dual HDMI output (good for resale value) and 3 year warranty so you won't want another AVR in a month or two.[/QUOTE] http://www.accessories4less.com/make...arranty/1.html
Quote:
As far as a speakers budget - if you haven't experienced Bose 601 Series III's, I'll fight you tooth and nail to find a replacement - for the money.
You'd lose the fight...seriously. As I said, the Bose are good, I like 'em myself. I had a set of 501 and loved them for years. But todays internet direct speakers offer such an amazing value, they can and will eat the Bose for lunch. Just look around and you'll agree with me. Keep the front 3, (left, center, right) the same tweeter and all at the same height. The biggest single mistake I see with about (guessing) 80% of setups, is the center is either way higher or way lower, than the L/R tweeters. All should be same and at ear level. But I digress...

Main: Mitsubishi 73734 DLP|Amazon Fire TV|Toshiba HD DVD-A35|Panasonic BD65|Denon AVR-4311CI|MartinLogan Preface|Phantom|MartinLogan Encore TF|2 DIY Class 'G' 540w 12" Subs|APC H15|Harmony 720 Remote|Linksys E3000 Dual Band N-Router|Linksys SE2500 Ethernet Switch

MBR: Vizio VF550M|Roku 2XS|Sony BDP-S1100|Denon AVR-X1000|Chane A1rx-c|Phantom|Dayton Audio SAT-BK|MartinLogan Dynamo 300|Belkin PureAV PF30|Harmony 550 Remote
Squirrel! is offline  
post #12 of 21 Old 06-30-2015, 10:50 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 263
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked: 37
A step down from the x3000, but for the same price on a new in box model with longer warranty ( if that makes you more comfortable), you can get the x2100: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-5cHz0wB...N-Command.html
dkfan9 is online now  
post #13 of 21 Old 06-30-2015, 10:54 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 263
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Well, I can't tell if that a4l receiver has a 3 year or 1 year warranty, the info on the page conflicts with the url
dkfan9 is online now  
post #14 of 21 Old 06-30-2015, 10:58 PM
Senior Member
 
Squirrel!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkfan9 View Post
Well, I can't tell if that a4l receiver has a 3 year or 1 year warranty, the info on the page conflicts with the url
LOL, conflicting? Says 3 years in the title as well as the picture with a big red "3 years warranty" circle, pasted over it...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot (109).png
Views:	10
Size:	240.4 KB
ID:	806130  

Main: Mitsubishi 73734 DLP|Amazon Fire TV|Toshiba HD DVD-A35|Panasonic BD65|Denon AVR-4311CI|MartinLogan Preface|Phantom|MartinLogan Encore TF|2 DIY Class 'G' 540w 12" Subs|APC H15|Harmony 720 Remote|Linksys E3000 Dual Band N-Router|Linksys SE2500 Ethernet Switch

MBR: Vizio VF550M|Roku 2XS|Sony BDP-S1100|Denon AVR-X1000|Chane A1rx-c|Phantom|Dayton Audio SAT-BK|MartinLogan Dynamo 300|Belkin PureAV PF30|Harmony 550 Remote
Squirrel! is offline  
post #15 of 21 Old 06-30-2015, 11:10 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 263
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel! View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkfan9 View Post
Well, I can't tell if that a4l receiver has a 3 year or 1 year warranty, the info on the page conflicts with the url
LOL, conflicting? Says 3 years in the title as well as the picture with a big red "3 years warranty" circle, pasted over it...
Ha, I didn't Even look at the picture, I just reads 1 yr manufacturer in the specs. That's definitely more enticing with the additional two years
dkfan9 is online now  
post #16 of 21 Old 06-30-2015, 11:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 9,948
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1686 Post(s)
Liked: 2194
The specs say that because they usually don't bundle additional warranties with one of the refurbs....at least I hadn't noticed that kind of offer before in my visits to A4L....
lovinthehd is online now  
post #17 of 21 Old 06-30-2015, 11:39 PM
Senior Member
 
Squirrel!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked: 54
I think so too.

Main: Mitsubishi 73734 DLP|Amazon Fire TV|Toshiba HD DVD-A35|Panasonic BD65|Denon AVR-4311CI|MartinLogan Preface|Phantom|MartinLogan Encore TF|2 DIY Class 'G' 540w 12" Subs|APC H15|Harmony 720 Remote|Linksys E3000 Dual Band N-Router|Linksys SE2500 Ethernet Switch

MBR: Vizio VF550M|Roku 2XS|Sony BDP-S1100|Denon AVR-X1000|Chane A1rx-c|Phantom|Dayton Audio SAT-BK|MartinLogan Dynamo 300|Belkin PureAV PF30|Harmony 550 Remote
Squirrel! is offline  
post #18 of 21 Old 07-01-2015, 11:07 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Josh Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Planet Boston, source of the spice, Melange.
Posts: 20,943
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1020 Post(s)
Liked: 724
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
The "6.1" DTS DVD audio tracks are actually 5.1 with the rear channel matrixed during encoding.

DTS-MA 6.1 audio on a blu-ray disc is a different animal, as it usually has a discrete back channel.
On DVD, Dolby Digital-EX and DTS-ES Matrix were both encoded as 5.1 with metadata for a matrixed rear channel. However, DTS-ES Discrete was true 6.1. Admittedly, very few DVDs were authored that way.

Josh Z
Writer/Editor, High-Def Digest (Blog updated daily!)
Curator, Laserdisc Forever

My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily reflect those of my employers.

Josh Z is online now  
post #19 of 21 Old 07-01-2015, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Maryville, TN
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Undefeated? Zero distortion, really? You got measurements
Okay, you got me - no instruments were used to defend my statement; I've just been really happy with my 601's and never hear any problems with them. I'll watch what I say in here! I'm a newbie at wanting to learn more about this stuff. I know I've brought a switch into a bear fight with all the knowledge I'm seeing as I read other posts. Thanks for your reply!
Wile E. Coyote is offline  
post #20 of 21 Old 07-01-2015, 11:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 9,948
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1686 Post(s)
Liked: 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post
Okay, you got me - no instruments were used to defend my statement; I've just been really happy with my 601's and never hear any problems with them. I'll watch what I say in here! I'm a newbie at wanting to learn more about this stuff. I know I've brought a switch into a bear fight with all the knowledge I'm seeing as I read other posts. Thanks for your reply!
No worries, just yanking your chain a bit. You like what you like until you find something you like more. You do apparently have an spl meter, so now its time to get a measurement mic A friend of mine has been using his 301s forever, he loves them. I don't really have a dog in the Bose fight, altho my suv has a Bose system in it; the one home system I tried was an early Acoustimass I got a great deal on but I just didn't care for it, sold it to a friend who still uses it. Way back in the day (early 70s) there was one guy I knew who had a nicely setup pair of Bose 901s and threw parties regularly....they performed great for that.

Last edited by lovinthehd; 07-01-2015 at 11:22 AM.
lovinthehd is online now  
post #21 of 21 Old 07-01-2015, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Maryville, TN
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel! View Post
I believe it. Bose rocked back in the day. That is the foundation of the company, the big, floor standers...


Why go thru this twice? Just go thru it once, have a MUCH better AVR than either of the two you are looking at, and call it a day? Something like this with Audyssey MultEQ XT room correction, dual HDMI output (good for resale value) and 3 year warranty so you won't want another AVR in a month or two.
http://www.accessories4less.com/make...arranty/1.html

Thanks for the head slap! To be honest, I tunnel visioned on the Onkyo at HHGregg because I have credit there. But now that you have me thinking, why waste money just to replace it down the road? I'll use a different credit card and do it just once! I do like the looks and stats on this Denon you recommend!

You'd lose the fight...seriously. As I said, the Bose are good, I like 'em myself. I had a set of 501 and loved them for years. But todays internet direct speakers offer such an amazing value, they can and will eat the Bose for lunch. Just look around and you'll agree with me. Keep the front 3, (left, center, right) the same tweeter and all at the same height. The biggest single mistake I see with about (guessing) 80% of setups, is the center is either way higher or way lower, than the L/R tweeters. All should be same and at ear level. But I digress... [/QUOTE]

Yeah, I know I need to "tone it down a bit" with shooting off at the mouth on them there Bose 601's. I know diddly-squat about AVRs and speakers in today's world. Again, bought my Bose in Korea in 1989 with my first home set up; used a dbx BX-3MkII Power Amplifier and a Pioneer VSX-9500S Receiver as a Pre-Amp. Bought it cause it looked cool - and there wasn't much to choose from at the military exchange in Korea. The VSX-9500 died in 1999 and I went with a Pioneer VSX-D608 because I had been happy with the 9500 for 10 years, so I didn't learn up on anything different. FFWD to 2015 and my D608 still works great, but I need HDMI for the Blu-Ray. As such, I thought I'd learn more about all the technology in todays home theater systems and I landed here at the AVS Forum! Thanks Squirrel! for your comments!
Wile E. Coyote is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off