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Help Troubleshooting AMP

2K views 46 replies 9 participants last post by  RayDunzl 
#1 ·
Denon x4100w
Outlaw 770 7 channel amp

I am VERY ignorant still on hooking up home audio.

On Denon I used rca cords to link up the pre-outs to each channel on Outlaw Amp.

Speakers wired to Outlaw via speaker wire to and from red/black speaker posts.

I turn AMP on.. There is only one button. Button turns green.

NO SOUND :(

Any ideas? Someone suggested testing with a iPod. But I don't have iPod. Any way to test with iPad or iPhone?

There is a 'trigger out' switch on back of AMP. I don't need that hooked up for amp to work, do I?
 
#2 ·
Check that you're on direct source. Use tuner on your denon. Source doesn't matter. No need for iPod if you have tuner. Or use your Blu ray player.

If no go look at Outlaw manual and check that Trigger is not the cause.

Denon Limey has a trigger out. Hook it up if you have a cable for such and test.
Otherwise take to repair shop.
 
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#4 ·
Denon x4100w
Outlaw 770 7 channel amp


Any ideas? Someone suggested testing with a iPod. But I don't have iPod. Any way to test with iPad or iPhone?

There is a 'trigger out' switch on back of AMP. I don't need that hooked up for amp to work, do I?
You can test it with your iPhone using one of these
Jacks which are available at Walmart/bestbuy/etc
http://www.amazon.com/Gemini-PH62089-Stereo-Mini-Male-RCA-Male/dp/B0001GAOE0

Plug it into your phone and amp (power off!), then power on
The amp and pick a audio source from the phone. Play the
Source starting at low volume and slowly turn up the volume.
If you don't get any sound...then the amp is defective!
 
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#5 ·
"Simply press the front panel Power/Standby button until the light is illuminated.
There will be a short pause from the time the power is turned on until power
is applied to the speakers. This is intentional, and protects your speakers from
damage while the amplifier stabilizes. You may also hear a relay click during
start up. This is also normal."

If I had no other sources with which to perform the "Is this amp working at all?" test:

I would plug an RCA cable into a channel on the amp. And turn it on.

And tap the unconnected end of the cable with my finger, expecting to hear some hum or pops from the speakers.

It could be loud, it depends on how much signal you have in your body.
 
#6 ·
^^ I'm getting no sound.

The light's on but nobody is home.

I don't have to have a trigger wire, right? There's a trigger wire input on back and a on/off switch above it. I leave it on. If you turn it off, the whole amp shuts down.

When the amp/green light is on - the amp makes no noise. Are they typically silent?
 
#9 ·
OK, here U go..
1. Connect a cable with 3.5 m/m mini phone plugs between the Denon AVR (Trigger IN) and Outlaw Amplifier (Trigger IN)..
Make sure this is a mono cable type, 2 conductor.
2. Double check the Outlaw's rear panel master switch, switch it ON/OFF as it also operates as a circuit breaker
3. Make sure the Outlaw's front panel Power ON/OFF switch is ON.

Now when U switch ON the Denon AVR the Outlaw Amplifier should power UP.

Links to respective manuals..
http://pdf.outlawaudio.com/outlaw/docs/770manual.pdf
http://manuals.denon.com/avrx4100w/na/EN/GFNFSYasrxoojm.php

Link to possible cable supplier..
http://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=5536

Just my $0.02... ;)
 
#13 ·
soooo frustrating, I'm going to go hunt for MONO cord.. they all seem to have two insulators. Hopefully Best Buy or Target will have one.


It is even possible that the amp wouldn't work without the trigger out being connected? I find it hard to believe that it's going to magically work, once I put that cord in.


I sure hope so though. (crosses fingers)
 
#15 ·
I left Outlaw tech support a message to call. I didn't buy this from them though, so I'm not sure how motivated they will be to dispense advice...


Just in the event someone sees this in the next hour: I'm going to head out to look for mono cables. In the event I can't find one - is there a work around to "trigger" the 12v trigger? Can anything else be plugged in? I tried a stereo cable (two insulaters on it) and that did not work.
 
#16 ·
Yeah. I looked the manual. No need to get a trigger cable. It sounds like a bad amplifier.

A simple volt meter across the amp binding posts will confirm such as well (with a source playing).

Never had issues with the amplifier or did you buy it used? Then again, it is al least 12-13 years old...
 
#17 ·
Well I went to every store in area, all cords had two insulators. Sounds like that wouldn't have done anything anyway.

I'm told in Denon forum that preouts are ALWAYS on. So I guess I bought a bad amp. I got it off eBay from a seller with perfect reviews. I can't believe he'd go through the hassle of shipping a broke amp. FML

Oh look my Minidsp ddrc 88a just arrived. Looks like I won't be calibrating ****.
 
#31 ·
#18 ·
I talked to Outlaw tech and they were indeed helpful.

He said that the amp should work without messing with trigger wires.

But from there all he could do is have me ship it to them for repair.

He said the fact that when I turn it on, and button lights green - he said that's odd. He said usually when amp is not working, the light won't come on or be green.

But I cant think of any other reason the amp isnt working. Supposedly the Denon x4100 preouts are always on..
 
#20 ·
Yes to all except maybe last. The amp assign menus on Denon don't have any place to select preouts specifically though, i.e. Every picture for speaker options shows only the black & white speaker bindings in use. For actual sources like "CBL/SAT" I only find the option to change HDMI, cord types for the signal.

This might help:

I found a cord that has a 3.5 male plug on one side and goes to y split two rca cords - red and white.

I hooked my phone to AUX in on my Denon. It played the music. So I immediately went and plugged one of those same RCAs into Outlaw Amp and still no sound. And yes I had a speaker hooked up.

Is that a valid way to test amp? I mean should there be sound from amp when I hook up as described above?
 
#22 ·
What are the odds that something could have 'shook' loose during delivery. It was shipped well, he kind of broke chunks of thick styrofoam. But wow was/is it heavy! It could have been thrown down in disgust along the way. Because it's that heavy. It's pisses you off heavy.
 
#27 ·
That explains everything. You simply got screwed by the seller. The amplifier was released in 2003. Likely fried years ago. I imagine you didn't pay too much though. I don't know how some sellers can knowingly sell broken crap and sleep at night. Best bet is to send to Outlaw and pay for a fix.
 
#36 · (Edited)
The real problem is that you could be out up to $200 at the end of the day since he clearly states you have to pay return shipping.
You should probably ship it back UPS ground, that will be the least expensive.

Did you run the test with the RCA cable and your finger described in Post 5 of this thread by RayDunzl? If not, you need to do it with each individual channel.

I guess the second thing I would ask is do you have a friend that is more versed in audio equipment that could at least take a look at the Amp to make sure it is dead? You are going to feel really bad paying shipping here and there and then finding out that the Amp is actually good.
If all 7 channels have no output then it is likely a problem with the power supply.
 
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#39 ·
Let me try to break this test down for you.

Connect a speaker to channel 1.
Connect an RCA cable with a male connector on each end to the input of channel 1.
You now have an amplifier with a speaker connected and an RCA cable plugged into the input but not connected on its other end.
Turn the amplifier on and wait 10-15 seconds for the amplifier to stabilize.
Touch your finger to the male tip of the RCA cable.
If that amplifier channel is working you will hear a 60 cycle hum in your amplifier.
How this works:
Since power from your outlet plugs in your home all supply 120 volt Alternating Current or 240 Volt Alternating current, there are electromagnetic fields all around your.
As RayDunzl said, your body acts as an Antenna and picks up a small amount of this alternating current. When you touch your finger to the end of the RCA connector,
That 60 cycle hum from your body gets amplified by the amplifier since it is in the Audio Spectrum that the amplifier responds to.
If you hear a hum in the speaker you know that Channel 1 is working. If you do not hear a hum, you know that it is not working.

Then you repeat the test for each of the other 6 channels. ie: now move the speaker to channel 2 speaker terminals and move the RCA cable to channel 2 input.
Touch the tip and listen for hum.
Repeat this for each channel and report back to us the results. Very simple test but one you should easily be able to do.
Ask specific questions if you still do not understand and we will try to help you.

Good luck!
 
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#40 ·
OK so I finally got my hands on Mono-Mono cord. I plugged it in and now the amp works! (sort of)


Amazing. I literally talked to a Ben at Outlaw Audio tech support, and he said the cord wouldn't matter. But the seller was insisting it would work with cord.


Small problem though. The front left channel is not working. FML! God forbid the whole amp just work after all of this.


So if anyone has some magical reason why just one of the channels wouldn't work - please share. Otherwise, it looks like I got a 6 channel amp. Which is utterly useless for me, I only need it for Dirac Live and 6 channels isn't going to cut it. :(
 
#41 ·
U need to check the amplifier channels and cables..
Swap the left front cable with the right front one..
What happens..
If the amplifier channel still doesn't work, then the amplifier is defective..
If the amplifier channel now works, U have a bad cable..

I hope that helps..

Just my $0.02... ;)
 
#42 ·
6/7ths of a congratulations...

Nobody expected that result (with the trigger).

Now, if it were me, I'd take it apart.

Those power amp channels might just "plug in", for easy replacement/repair.

And if they do, in shipping, one may have unplugged itself.

Or with age, one may have lost connectivity in some other fashion. Reseating connectors can be a good idea.

Since 6 are working it would seem unlikely that some common factor would have blown channel 7, so I'd swap channel cards around.

But if you don't know what you are doing, maybe take it to someone who does, to take a look at what you have now.
 
#43 ·
I have to say, it is getting difficult to understand just what you are doing.
Mono Mono cord is not really very descriptive. Is this a cord with a single RCA Plug on each end that plugs into your Amp input and then also into your 4100 preamp output?

At this point, the odds are that the problem with your front left channel is something you might be doing wrong.
Lets try to check this and this time it would be appreciated if you actually answered questions specifically.

So, Left Front is not working but Right front is.
We will now proceed to run some tests on Left Front using the known good Right Front amplifier.

Disconnect the speaker wire from the Amp that connects to Right Front and connect the Left Front speaker wire there.
Do you get sound through the Left Front speaker when connected to the Right Front Amplifier?
If yes then we know that speaker wire and speaker are working properly. If not then check and change that speaker wire and retest.
If you get sound through the Left Front speaker then unplug the Right Front input wire from the Right Front amplifier input and connect the Left Front input wire to the Right Front amplifier input.
Do you now get sound? If yes then we know your cabling is all working correctly.

If all of the above worked then we will now run another test on the Left Front Amplifier channel.
Reconnect the known good Left Front speaker wire to the Amplifier.
Now connect the Right Front input wire to the Left Front input.
Do you get sound?

If no then you have pretty certainly determined that your Left Front Amplifier section has a problem.

If that is the case, then you probably need to negotiate a discounted price with the Seller and take the Amp to a shop for repair.
Although a lot of us would not hesitate to open the amplifier and swap cards or run further tests, I think based on what you have found that this is probably well above your skill level.
I am not saying that in a hurtful way but just trying to be honest in helping you resolve this.
If you are not comfortable running the tests that have been suggested, then please say so.
A number of people on the forum have been following this thread closely, trying to help you work through the problem.
 
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#44 ·
I have to say, it is getting difficult to understand just what you are doing.
Mono Mono cord is not really very descriptive. Is this a cord with a single RCA Plug on each end that plugs into your Amp input and then also into your 4100 preamp output?
This was explained on July 5th, the mono to mono cable is the Trigger ON cable that goes from the AVR to the amplifier. It is a 3.5 m/m
mini mono plug type, commonly used for Trigger On/Off leads and links to IR In/Out components.
Here is the original link..
http://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=5536

At this point, the odds are that the problem with your front left channel is something you might be doing wrong.
Lets try to check this and this time it would be appreciated if you actually answered questions specifically.

So, Left Front is not working but Right front is.
We will now proceed to run some tests on Left Front using the known good Right Front amplifier.

Disconnect the speaker wire from the Amp that connects to Right Front and connect the Left Front speaker wire there.
Do you get sound through the Left Front speaker when connected to the Right Front Amplifier?
If yes then we know that speaker wire and speaker are working properly. If not then check and change that speaker wire and retest.
If you get sound through the Left Front speaker then unplug the Right Front input wire from the Right Front amplifier input and connect the Left Front input wire to the Right Front amplifier input.
Do you now get sound? If yes then we know your cabling is all working correctly.

If all of the above worked then we will now run another test on the Left Front Amplifier channel.
Reconnect the known good Left Front speaker wire to the Amplifier.
Now connect the Right Front input wire to the Left Front input.
Do you get sound?

If no then you have pretty certainly determined that your Left Front Amplifier section has a problem.

If that is the case, then you probably need to negotiate a discounted price with the Seller and take the Amp to a shop for repair.
Although a lot of us would not hesitate to open the amplifier and swap cards or run further tests, I think based on what you have found that this is probably well above your skill level.
I am not saying that in a hurtful way but just trying to be honest in helping you resolve this.
If you are not comfortable running the tests that have been suggested, then please say so.
A number of people on the forum have been following this thread closely, trying to help you work through the problem.
No need to do all of that switching around...
Just swap the front left and right RCA cables (AVR pre-outs > amplifier inputs) around. If the problem is still no audio output on the same channel it is either the amplifier channel and/or speaker cabling. Thats one thing about trouble-shooting a multi-channel system just swap a good channel with the questionable one, through trial & error the problem will show itself.

Just my $0.02.. ;)
 
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